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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2013. Click For Restrictions - http://about.reuters.com/fulllegal.aspEU threatens to suspend data-sharing with US over spy reports
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SuperLib
I don't see anything in there about refusing to use US data.
JeanValJean
" The Terrorist Finance Tracking Programme (TFTP) provides the U.S. Treasury with data stored in Europe on international financial transfers. The Passenger Name Record agreement covers data provided by passengers when booking tickets and checking in for flights. All such information is passed to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security."
What both programs show is the Nanny State nature of any government. Neither program is beneficial to anyone's liberty, is it?
scoobydoo
Interesting that it was probably Snowdens whistle blowing that prompted this action but they all still want him silenced. A bit double standard isn't it?
Laguna
Wait - if the US is spying to the extent the EU charges, the US would get the data anyway, making the suspension pointless.
bass4funk
If Snowden got himself a lawyer and testified in court about the intel he would have had even more credibility as a "whistle blower" but him going to the enemy in particular China and Russia has nothing to do with whistle blowing anymore. It is criminal treason. As as the US wanting him silenced, actually, it doesn't matter anymore at this point and time, the damage has already been done, the Russians and Chinese have everything that Snowden had on his possession, so at this point and time, Snowden himself cannot do anymore damage. However, he is still wanted on theft and espionage charges and a whole list of other charges are waiting for him, once they get him back on US soil. Oh, and before any of you liberals think that Snowden CAN'T be caught. Let me remind you that 8 years ago, OBL soon boasted that we would never find his father because the mountains of Afghanistan swallowed him and is protectecting him from the US. What later happened with that so called premonition? One thing I can say without a doubt. Snowden knows the NSA have a 90% lead on where he is hiding and although the WH will never comment or admit, when the time is right and when he is settled in, they could go into that country and get him out. That is a very likely possibility that some time in the future if the US wants to bring this guy in at their choosing, they will.
JeanValJean
Q: How do you define hyperbole? A: " It is criminal treason."
smithinjapan
Ah, yes... all those illegal actions by the US certainly are paying off, aren't they?
bass4funk
As a matter of fact, Yes, the legal actions DID in fact curb quite a few attempted attacks.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/04/fifty-terror-plots-foiled-since-9-11-the-homegrown-threat-and-the-long-war-on-terrorism
globalwatcher
The US has already stripped his citizenship, therefore, the US government has NO legal power or jurisdiction over Snowden whatsoever when his asylum request is granted. Sounds like more than a few countries are showing interest to do so.
PeaceWarrior
Don't threaten, just do it!
bass4funk
Which at that point and time, the US can declare Snowden and official terrorist and then he will be subjected to laws and rules of the terrorist and Patriot Act, then the US doesn't need to have any qualms of guilt if they shoot a Hellfire missile right up his rear end. That gives them the Green light.
globalwatcher
You missed my legal point, bass. I repeat this again, again until you get it. Snowden is no longer American. US government has no say. Are you telling me that the Navy Seal will go after Snowden at Moscow airport?
Tyr Bjoerdal
"United States access to European financial." Is there anyone who does not believe that they will use such data for their ownr financial gains? Politicians are stupid!
SuperLib
Smith, do you think Canada knew about the information or used any of it for their benefit?
JeanValJean
" As a matter of fact, Yes, the legal actions DID in fact curb quite a few attempted attacks."
@bassfink, do you realize that other than the citizen-foiled ones on that list(underwear, shoe -bombers), the others were primarily planned and coordinated by FBI with the terrarists recruited by FBI agents or flipped informants(entrapment)? The Surveillance State managed to miss the Fort Hood SOB and Boston incident somehow.
Snowden has not been stripped of citizenship, but he HAS been made undocumented as far as travel documents go. More like exiled. Sending a drone to whack a citizen has already been done, extrajudicially might I add.
Gaijin Desi
History of Spying is not only 100 years old.
FullM3taL
@bass4funk
Any source for this? Oh I see, it's from "IamParanoid.com".
If there's one thing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us, it's precisely that. The US doesn't have any qualms about shooting Hellfire missiles at anybody, be it innocent civilians or women or children.
Thunderbird2
@bass4funk.... enemies? You still fighting the cold war, mate? If everyone in the good ol' US of A thought like you they'd still have missiles pointing at.... oooooh, what was I thinking, lol
USNinJapan2
globalwatcher
Since when? The U.S. Government has revoked his passport in order to prevent him traveling internationally but it hasn't revoked his citizenship. Snowden hasn't renounced his U.S. citizenship either, at least publically, from the reports I've read. It still wouldn't matter though because renouncing your U.S. citizenship doesn't allow you to avoid prosecution under U.S. laws for any crimes you committed while you were still a citizen. Regardless of which country's citizen he ultimately becomes, he will remain on the U.S.' wanted list and those of any countries allied with the U.S.
scoobydoo
bass4funk, your patriotism is to be admired but I am not sure that your trust in the US govt is, or any govt for that matter.
Madverts
"the others were primarily planned and coordinated by FBI with the terrarists recruited by FBI agents"
Heh, okay dokey..
JeanValJean
Madverts,
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html
Or hadn't you heard?
Madverts
Do you even read your own links?
Whilst you might find me on your side for a case of entrapment, your earlier claims are nothing but accusations from the land of aluminium head gear.
serendipitous
If it had been a Russian bloke or a Chinese bloke or a Venezuelan bloke who blew the whistle on things happening in those countries, and managed to get to the US, I'm sure the US would be quite happy and may even grant him/her asylum. So it's not surprising that China and Russia etc. aren't being very helpful!
kurisupisu
What Snowden knows or knew would never be allowed to air in an American court. It would be pointless to expect justice in the US......
JeanValJean
Madverts, did you read it? I did.
" THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years —or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.
But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested."
Yes, not every plot was orchestrated by FBI, but how many of the 50 they claim to have foiled did they not play a heavy hand? No hattery involved.
USNinJapan2
JeanValJean
Why are you quoting from the Opinion section of the NYT? From over a year ago to boot. Couldn't find anything current in the actual news to the same effect?
Madverts
Jean,
That's quite a back-track from your earlier post that makes the reader want to believe the FBI is behind every single terrorist plot plot since 9/11....
Personally I don't like, condone or argue for entrapment, but all the FBI have been doing in these cases is letting fools/fundies (or both) expose themselves for what they are and then giving them the means to legally get themselves locked away for ever in a Supermax. You'll find there is a great many of us moderates out there that couldn't really care less for the "rights" of people that want to let off a nail bomb in the middle of a marathon, even if they still get their expensive and lengthy time in court.
globalwatcher
USNinJapan2Jul. 06, 2013 - 07:21PM JST
Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:
1)obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2)taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
3)entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA); ' 4)accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
5)formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
5)formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
6)conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).
RomeoRII
Heh, the uber socialists are calling out Obama's adminstration for this? Gosh, he must feel like a girl with the vapors at the sleepover.
RR
USNinJapan2
globalwatcher
That's all very nice. But...
1)obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA); - He hasn't obtained one yet. He's only been begging for one.
2)taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA); - Hasn't done this either, although I'm sure he will as soon as he does 1).
3)entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA); ' 4)accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA); - Nope, hasn't done any of these.
5)formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA); - He hasn't renounced his citizenship publically. If you're saying he has then I'm sure you will provide a link or story, right?
5)formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA); - He obviously hasn't done this.
6)conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA). - He'd have to stand trial first in the U.S. He's so far only been charged.
Since Snowden hasn't done any of the six acts you listed above he's still very much a U.S. citizen, just one without a valid passport. And as I mentioned previously, even after he's become a citizen of another country he's still subject to prosecution for crimes he committed as an American before he gave up his citizenship. Briefly stated, your claim that the U.S. Government has already stripped Snowden of his citizenship is false.
JeanValJean
@global, I have to agree with usninjpn on the loss of citizenship.
" U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship."
To be subject to doesn't necessitate loss of citizenship unless both stipulations are satisfied and the paperwork is done. Renouncing US citizenship is not so easy as the gov is loathe to lose tax cows. And as more people are opting to renounce, the gov is making it more difficult. Obtaining a second (or third) citizenship does not mean automatic loss of US citizenship. Read the FAQS on the State Dept webpage.
globalwatcher
USNinJapan2Jul. 06, 2013 - 10:26PM JST
There are several subtle announcements made by the US government to Snowden you can read. These are jobs his lawyers have to do. Or you can research to satisfy your curiosity. Good luck on that.
USNinJapan2
globalwatcher
No, don't you pass the buck. The onus is on you to support your initial claim by producing even a single report or account of the U.S. Government officially stating or notifying Snowden that his U.S. citizen has been revoked. Not just his passport, but his actual citizenship.
globalwatcher
USNinJapan2Jul. 06, 2013 - 11:45PM JST
No, I refuse to feed everything in silver spoon. There are many information available for you. Critical thinking is haaard..
USNinJapan2
globalwatcher
That's idiotic. It's not possible to find and produce something that doesn't exist. However, it's much easier to prove it to be false: According to the Justice Department, the U.S. Government has NOT revoked Snowden's citizenship and he IS still a U.S. citizen.
From the linked LA Times article: "The State Department revoked Snowden's passport when he fled Hong Kong for Moscow last month, but U.S. officials said Wednesday that won't keep him from returning home. "He's not marooned," said Nanda Chitre, the top spokesperson at the Justice Department. "He's not stateless. He's a U.S. citizen. No one has revoked his citizenship. His country is ready to take him back and issue a travel document so he can return to this country."
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/03/world/la-fg-snowden-20130704
On the other hand there's you:
No matter how many times you repeat it, you're wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Open Minded
Besides the anti-terrorism smoke screen to "justify" these absolutely insane institutional spying programs, I am wondering about industrial/economical spying. I cannot believe that all the very valuable info gathered about technology are not shared with the big ones in the USA. But no article about that, while this is a much bigger direct threat to the European - and other - economy.
technosphere
He has enough credibility without pseudo-wise advices from the US soil. Trust me. All those complaints from the US side make your leadership to look out sillier day by day, since the very beginning of mr Snowden's case.
[Yawn] For the USA, perhaps? We, people from various countries of the Globe, don't care about.
Very good. Intel services of China and Russia MUST know all secrets of PRISM and other electronic spy tools of the USA and beat you in response.
Theft and espionage take place when some smart asses from the US state organization, called National Security Agency, push their ugly mugs into our cell phone conversations and e-mail content. This is both a theft and espionage. You can call China and Russia as enemies whenever you wish but I predict that the slogan "F*** America !" will be much more popular in up-coming years than ever.
globalwatcher
That's why there are lawyers. You wait and see.
JeanValJean
global, please read the FAQs on the State Dept website.
usninjpn is correct. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
" Administrative Standard of Evidence
As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.
Disposition of Cases when Administrative Premise is Applicable
In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:
and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.
When, as the result of an individual's inquiry or an individual's application for registration or a passport it comes to the attention of a U.S. consular officer that a U.S. citizen has performed an act made potentially expatriating by Sections 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2), 349(a)(3) or 349(a)(4) as described above, the consular officer will simply ask the applicant if he/she intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship when performing the act. If the answer is no, the consular officer will certify that it was not the person's intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship and, consequently, find that the person has retained U.S. citizenship.
Persons Who Wish to Relinquish U.S. Citizenship
If the answer to the question regarding intent to relinquish citizenship is yes, the person concerned will be asked to complete a questionnaire to ascertain his or her intent toward U.S. citizenship. When the questionnaire is completed and the voluntary relinquishment statement is signed, the consular officer will proceed to prepare a certificate of loss of nationality. The certificate will be forwarded to the Department of State for consideration and, if appropriate, approval.
An individual who has performed any of the acts made potentially expatriating by statute who wishes to lose U.S. citizenship may do so by affirming in writing to a U.S. consular officer that the act was performed with an intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. A U.S. citizen also has the option to formally renounce U.S. citizenship abroad in accordance with Section 349 (a) (5) INA.
Disposition of Cases When Administrative Premise Is Inapplicable
The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. citizenship is not applicable when the individual:
Cases in categories 2, 3 and 4 will be developed carefully by U.S. consular officers to ascertain the individual's intent toward U.S. citizenship."
HonestDictator
And people are panicking about the government that is supposed to be protecting them... There are boundaries that the government shouldn't cross, but at the same time don't expect them to protect properly you if you take away their abilities to do so due to paranoid delusions. Very few people in the world are important enough a threat to the safety of a country's citizens to be spied upon. There are more organizations, governments, and groups that are more important than individuals that are marked to keep track of.
Lets say US citizen Mark is downloading child porn from a site that is based in some other country. After gathering enough information to prosecute and arrest Mark the FBI or what have you decides to gather information on the site and if the country that is hosting the site is a part of the international treaty against distribution of child porn. In a more extreme situation, Nationalized US citizen Gorchev is keeping in touch with some group in another country to get the next shipment of smuggled weapons, drugs etc. The US nabs him in the act arrests him and tries to find out any other ties or connections he has had online/phone etc.
As in the case of the boston bombers the brothers were have found to be reading information from extremist Jihadist sites hosted outside of the US. Now replace the US with whatever country you reside in and ask yourself how much should your government be disabled from their sworn duty to protect you from danger that is beyond your personal ability to defend yourself from?
Foxie
Threaten??? They should just do it, it would save millions of jobs in Europe.
bass4funk
@Global
Actually, you did.
Moscow, NO, but out in the open is a very different story and as a NON-American, it's quite possible
@jean
do you realize that other than the citizen-foiled ones on that list(underwear, shoe -bombers), the others were primarily planned and coordinated by FBI with the terrarists recruited by FBI agents or flipped informants(entrapment)? The Surveillance State managed to miss the Fort Hood SOB and Boston incident somehow.
Riiiiight. Lol
Exactly, which is why isaid, Now, the US if they want, whenever they want don't have to have ANY remorse should they fire a missile up his a**!
@fullM3
the Russians and Chinese have everything that Snowden had on his possession.
Son, My profession is a Journalist, I know for a fact, that's all I can say with certainty, as to what intel and how much the Chinese and Russians and is NOT known, but just the wires that he has, they have all of that.
Then you seriously don't understand about war. In war people die and that includes innocent women and there has never been in world history where there was a war and you didn't have any innocent civilians die. To say that, the US just for no reason and systematically targets innocent civilians shows you don't have the slightest understanding about military conflict and how it operates.
@thunder
Sorry, way off. There are a lot of people that think like me about this. Has nothing to do with the Cold War, but then again, why would Snowden go to Russia and China, he could have gone to Kenya, Nigeria, North Korea and yet he chose our enemies. You think Russian and China are friends? We're buddy, buddy?
@scooby
I never said that I trust the government all the and in everything. But factually, I do understand why the NSA does things the way they do. And when it comes to protection and safety of the US, I so trust them, I don't think the French would come and bail us out of ANY impending danger.
@techno
From overwhelmingly the radical liberals,libertarians and conspiracy nuts and a (few conservatives) perhaps.
Trust me, as Obama said a week ago, he doesn't care either way!
You just made MY point for me, buddy. So why should the US care as well or how you Europeans think? I mean, seriously.
You're a loon. So basically, over 150,000 people that are out on assignments all over the world that work for various governments and countries that are spies and who's lives could be in serious jeopardy because of this nut! You are ok, if some of these agents get compromised and also killed is sitting ok with you? You don't see the bigger picture in this. Amazing. This has gotten a lot bigger than America.
Sorry, No one cares about your boring conversations. You can put money on that, unless you are a terrorist, which then, you need to be careful and I would advise you to stay low or off the radar.
On Snowden, YES, no doubt about that! Don't forget, aiding the enemy as well.
Yup, if you are talking about your average everyday hippie and yuppie in the streets, I assume, but when it comes to the leaders, trust me, that attitude will wash off very quickly if they need financial aid, sales, oil, weapons, produce, goods, it will be business as usual in the next few weeks.
Deplore
What the hell are you talking about? No it hasn't. Don't make stuff up.
Madverts
Zichi, I don't disagree with much of what you say - I just don't think anything Snowden has leaked was news to most of us, or that like the little man locked away in the embassy, the leaks were done for altruistic reasons.
Like I said on the other thread, things like Google Glasses that are being developed out in the open by private companies scare me a lot more than the NSA at this moment in time. That's a company that has been economic with the truth on its public and wilful information gathering. There is very little opposition to such fast-moving technology which could mean the whole world will be technically under total video surveillance, if everyone rents a pair at least....
technosphere
He has enough credibility without pseudo-wise advices from the US soil. Trust me.
[yawn] I don't care about idiotic US-invented name-calling for progressive people of this planet.
All those complaints from the US side make your leadership to look out sillier day by day, since the very beginning of mr Snowden's case.
Trust me, we wanna spit upon whatever your Obama said a week / a month / an year ago. Not interested at all.
[Yawn] For the USA, perhaps? We, people from various countries of the Globe, don't care about.
Perfectly. You don't care about us, we don't care about you. Tell me, please, why we sholud read your silly complaints concerning to mr Snowden case ? :-) He committed a crime on US soil? Oh , really? WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT.
Very good. Intel services of China and Russia MUST know all secrets of PRISM and other electronic spy tools of the USA and beat you in response
See above. We don't care about your problems. Furthermore, we wanna spit upon your agents in jeopardy. Not out business. Not interested at all.
Theft and espionage take place when some smart asses from the US state organization, called National Security Agency, push their ugly mugs into our cell phone conversations and e-mail content.
Sorry, we don't care about your funny and silly complaints concerning to mr Snowden case..
This is both a theft and espionage
On illegal actions of US Government concerning to people of various countries of the World.
**You can call China and Russia as enemies whenever you wish but I predict that the slogan "F* America !" will be much more popular in up-coming years than ever.
Governments have nothing to do with it. Every sane and honest person will give mr Snowden a shelter, a piece of bread and a cup of water. Every sane and honest person will be lucky to send your agents to f*** themselves. Enjoy the Reality :-)
bass4funk
@techno
Exactly, and we don't care either.
Something we can finally agree upon! Obama chose to sit this one out and thinks Snowden is NOT a high priority issue. That does make him look like an incompetent.
I never voted for him, not my president.
No you understand how WE feel.
But you are reading them and commenting on them and giving us opposing and bit emotional points showing that indeed you DO care, otherwise you wouldn't comment or CARE.
So if innocent people that work in the field, spies, intelligence officers, whatever happens to them, is NOT nearly as important as knowing the secrets of PRISM and other tools we and the world use to prevent future attacks, watch our enemies.
Not even going to comment on that childish rant.
NO ONE in the NSA cares about your actual conversations unless you are a terrorist or you are doing something absolutely illegal, which then in that case, you have every right to be angry.
So Now we have to resort to "Ad hominem" attacks once again?
So why are you reading them and responding to them??
as I said before, all nations spy on each other, ALL OF THEM. So you should be mad, equally as mad
The countries that want to give shelter to Snowden are sane and honest??? ROFL A slice of bread and some water is way too good for Snowlden.
The reality is more like, innocent people worldwide from various nations can die, since you don't care, as long as the secrets get out. I see.
bass4funk
@jean
No, but almost 20 years in this business gives me more insight, a lot more. I have better access to information and sources that most average people can't get.
globalwatcher
bass4funkJul. 07, 2013 - 05:02PM JST
LOL, still missing my legal point, bass. I guess this is not your cup of tea.
bass4funk
@global
You mean this?
"I repeat this again, again until you get it. Snowden is no longer American. US government has no say. Are you telling me that the Navy Seal will go after Snowden at Moscow airport?"
Yeah, I did, but I'll repeat what I said. Snowden as you said (supposedly) is not an American anymore, therefore, Under the rules terrorism engagement, he clearly falls under that now, so as in "Al Awlaki" case, Snowden CAN be a potential target for a drone or assassination. If the US chooses, they could go after this guy, especially now.
JeanValJean
bass, global, Snowden's citizenship has not changed. He is still a US citizen. He has indeed been left without a travel permission booklet. Even if he were to be awarded another citizenship and travel permission booklet, he would still retain citizenship unless he INTENDS to not retain it.
Back to the topic of the article, now that NSA spying has also been revealed in Brazil, ahead of the soccer thing, the pile of dirty deeds by NSA is stacking up. At what point will people everywhere say NO MORE!? People, not governments, because the majority of governments are all lined up at Uncle Sam's feeding trough and only seek to save their skin and positions. It'll be up to the PEOPLE to terminate the spying on the people.
bass4funk
@jean
That will never happen, just move on. They ALL know, nothing will manifest from this, even the EU or Latin America knows it.
globalwatcher
JeanValJeanJul. 08, 2013 - 04:01PM JST
Snowden's passport was stripped without a due process. All Americans were guaranteed to have this basic rights. That's what ACLU is doing at this moment. You have to see this from the other perspectives to understand. It is not too complicated to understand if you understand the US constitution.
bass4funk
Yes, but the situation is different. The constitution doesn't say that US citizens that run off with secret intel to give to a foreign government are guaranteed those same basic rights. Believe me, if he were apprehended now, there would be a huge sigh of desperate relief.
globalwatcher
bass4funkJul. 09, 2013 - 12:54AM JST
bass, I am sorry, you are million miles away from the US Constitution how our father assembled every word very carefully in it.
bass4funk
Tell that to Snowden.
globalwatcher
bass4funkJul. 09, 2013 - 07:00AM JST
Bass, I guess you do not read a full context on my posts. ACLU is already doing this for Snowden.