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Europe battles COVID surge as WHO warns of 700,000 more deaths

39 Comments
By Camille BAS-WOHLERT

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39 Comments

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The anti-vaxxers are responsible. They will be along shortly asking the same questions they ask every single day. Never mind it has been repeatedly explained to them the benefits of being vaccinated.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

requiring a third booster shot for someone to be considered fully vaccinated.

It seems that Burning Bush was correct.

He said here many times that 2 shots doesn't count you as fully vaccinated. You need at least three.

But many here said Burning Bush is wrong.

One big problem in Europe is, that almost all borders are open and you can travel freely between the countries.

Many of my friends from Germany travel to France, Spain, Italy without any quarantine and without any mask.

Europe should close the borders or do stricter quarantine control and the numbers will go down.

Therefore I hope that Japan will keep its borders close until the Virus is under control in Europe and also USA.

If Japan opens its borders too early, we will see the same increase here like we see in Europe now.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Burning BushToday  07:07 am JST

> Proof positive that outbreaks occur among fully vaccinated.

Good thing nobody was actually disputing this or you’d have a point.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

MontyToday  07:14 am JST

It seems that Burning Bush was correct. 

He said here many times that 2 shots doesn't count you as fully vaccinated. You need at least three. 

But many here said Burning Bush is wrong.

You’re confusing yourself. We told BB he was wrong according to the available science at the time. Most of us understand that science changes as advancements are made.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

Those who are clogging up the hospitals and dying are mostly the unvaccinated. The facts speak for themselves.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

The other point for Europe, especially Germany is, that most of the people got their second shot already in the beginning of the year.

That means 8 months or more ago.

And that means they lost already the protection of their vaccination.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

MontyToday  07:14 am JST

*It seems that Burning Bush was correct. *

He said here many times that 2 shots doesn't count you as fully vaccinated. You need at least three. 

But many here said Burning Bush is wrong

You’re both incorrect:

Several countries, including Greece, France and Germany, are moving towards requiring a third booster shot for someone to be considered fully vaccinated.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

So we're going to believe the WHO, who in concert with China is whitewashing the real origins of this virus? The thing to believe are the facts on the ground: Cases are going up in Europe, by a lot. If you believe the vaccine helps, get it. Science is pretty much proving that it does work, as far as bettering your chances you don't need a hospital stay if you do get it.

If you don't I hope you have a good immune system. If you can't get it for health reasons, hope you do well.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/regions/europe/

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Yep, there are still a lot of unvaccinated people in Europe.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@P.Smith

Sorry, I am not sure if I am confused or you, but the part from the article you mentioned,

Several countries, including Greece, France and Germany, are moving towards requiring a third booster shot for someone to be considered fully vaccinated

does exactly say what Burning Bush said many times before:

Do be considered as full vaccinated means at least 3 shots.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Sorry, I am not sure if I am confused or you, but the part from the article you mentioned,

Several countries, including Greece, France and Germany, are moving towards requiring a third booster shot for someone to be considered fully vaccinated

does exactly say what Burning Bush said many times before:

Do be considered as full vaccinated means at least 3 shots.

Eh? No it doesn't. In Japan it's only two.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Some virologists think this is actually a 3 shot regime to get lasting immunity

So what if you need a 3rd booster? So (insert a word that would certainly be moderated) what?

Influenza shots are yearly. Nobody complains about that.

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are killing themselves (that’s up to them) and are extending the pandemic for all of us.

Vaccine mandates and passports work and this is the future.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Those who are clogging up the hospitals and dying are mostly the unvaccinated. The facts speak for themselves.

In Europe that isn't really the case any more, that is why some countries are asking people to get the booster.

But something that has been true from the start, and will continue to be until people wake up, is that those who are clogging up the hospitals and dying are mostly those who did not get early treatment.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

@Strangerland

I guess now, we are all confused. LOL

In some former posts, Burning Bush mentioned, that to be considered as fully vaccinated after two shots is not matching the reality, because the protection from the 2 shots is going down very soon.

Therefore he mentioned that to be considered as fully vaccinated means at least 3 shots.

But many people said he is wrong.

But now Greece, France and Germany has the same opinion.

Therefore I was saying Burning Bush’s assumption seems to be correct.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

In Europe that isn't really the case any more

Yes it is.

that is why some countries are asking people to get the booster.

Oh, this comment adds more context to your statement. You're one of those who lacks the logic to see that vaccinated people being able to catch the virus does not change the numbers, that unvaccinated are the overwhelming majority in the hospital and dying.

Sorry, did you want me to not destroy your narrative? My bad.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

In some former posts, Burning Bush mentioned, that to be considered as fully vaccinated after two shots is not matching the reality, because the protection from the 2 shots is going down very soon.

Burning Bush has claimed:

-- That three shots are already required to be considered fully vaccinated

-- That people said three shots would never come around

The reality is, there are pretty much no countries that currently require three shots to be fully vaccinated, and the only people that ever claimed that there would never be a third booster are only matched in stupidity by those who believed them.

Therefore he mentioned that to be considered as fully vaccinated means at least 3 shots.

But many people said he is wrong.

He is wrong. Take Japan for example - fully vaccinated is two shots.

Therefore I was saying Burning Bush’s assumption seems to be correct.

Eh? Then how do you explain Japan only requiring two?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

When Austria instituted a hard lockdown for the un vaccinated, the vaccination center said its traffic went up TEN TIMES vs. the previous week.

Furthermore, fully 20% of those showing up had not had a single shot.

So vaccination mandates work

Vaccination passports work

(Real) lockdowns for the unvaccinated work

And yeah, vaccines work.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Vaccination, mask wearing, social distancing. It appears all three are very important.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Then how do you explain Japan only requiring two?

If my memory is correct, Japan is also already thinking of the Booster shots, right?

Sooner or later each country will do that, because the protection from the two shots says Sayonara to you after latest 6-8 months.

What is the sense of the wording fully vaccinated if you have zero protection?

Anyway, in my opinion we should not use the wording fully vaccinated.

How about start to count the shots which will be probably necessary in the future to get the highest possible protection.

Instead of I am fully vaccinated, we should better say I got already 5 shots.

People who do not have at least 5 shots are not allowed to enter that restaurant... or something like that...

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

If my memory is correct, Japan is also already thinking of the Booster shots, right?

Japan currently requires two, not three booster shots to be fully vaccinated.

Sooner or later each country will do that

Maybe, but counter to Burning Bush's claims, they do not now.

What is the sense of the wording fully vaccinated if you have zero protection?

Eh? You aren't stupid enough to think that the requirement of a booster is equivalent to zero protection are you?

Instead of I am fully vaccinated, we should better say I got already 5 shots.

No, just two.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

The ONE AND ONLY time I would ever suggest anyone listen to this guy.....

Former President Trump urged all Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine in a Fox News exclusive interview on Tuesday, touting its efficacy as both "a safe vaccine" and "something that works."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-urges-all-americans-to-get-covid-vaccine-its-a-safe-vaccine

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Burning Bush

Gibraltar in Europe is case in point. They are 100% vaccinated yet experiencing an outbreak.

Gibraltar are nowhere near 100% vaccinated. They were reporting high numbers because they counted Spanish workers that got vaccinated in Gibraltar but lived in Spain. Hell, they didn't even vaccinate people 16 years and younger until recently.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@strangerland

Please do not tell me that you do not know that your protection after 2 shots will go very very down after 8 months.

Do you really think you are protected after 8 months in the same level like after, let me say, 4 weeks?

If you think so, then I would really recommend you to update your knowledge.

And if you behave after 8 months vaccination, in the same way like you behave after 4 weeks vaccination, then it is no wonder why the cases increase.

Why do you think are the booster shots necessary?

Just for fun?

No, they are necessary because your protection of your 2 shots is going down a lot, some reports said even down to 23%, and you can be infected and seriously sick like before you received your 2 shots.

For me, and I guess, for many other people, fully vaccinated means, highest protection level.

And after 8 months you don't have the highest protection level anymore, and you can get infected and sick easily.

The wording fully vaccinated gives the people a wrong imagination.

The imagination of fully vaccination is highest protection. But you do not have highest protection anymore after a few months.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

And this is why we have so many deaths....

To hear the fringe doctors who gathered at an equine facility for the Florida COVID Summit earlier this month, ivermectin is as effective against the virus in humans as it is against worms in horses.

“I have been on ivermectin for 16 months, my wife and I,” Dr. Bruce Boros declared at the end of the meeting at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala. “I have never felt healthier in my life.”

*Two days later, the 71-year-old cardiologist fell ill with COVID-19, according to the organizer of the one-day gathering and two other people with direct knowledge. *

*The organizer, Dr. John Littell, further reported to The Daily Beast that *six others among the 800 to 900 participants had also tested positive or developed COVID symptoms “within days of the conference.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/seven-anti-vax-doctors-covid-100319230.html

Idiots listening to idiots who all end up in the ICU....

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The protests are not anti-vax so much as anti-lockdown/anti-VaxPassport. Lockdowns have been clumsily implemented, have done more damage than they needed to and the vax passport restrictions threaten to divide society. Politics is the art of knowing your limits.

According to stats from the Office of National Statistics, the Covid situation in the UK is surprisingly stable (given the absence of mask-wearing and restrictions) with higher caseloads not producing the high hospitalisation rates of previous peaks. High mortality estimates have been revised downwards.

Wear a mask, be sensible, and get a jab/booster if you safely can, allowing Covid to pass through us with minimal impact. Lockdowns will slow its passage and we need it to pass rapidly before the jabs wear off. Governments should have prioritised the expansion of dedicated Covid care sites. They have failed their citizens by not doing this. They are an important part of this phase where Covid passes through a largely vaccinated community.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

GBR48Today  10:08 am JST

The protests are not anti-vax so much as anti-lockdown/anti-VaxPassport. Lockdowns have been clumsily implemented, have done more damage than they needed to and the vax passport restrictions threaten to divide society. Politics is the art of knowing your limits.

According to stats from the Office of National Statistics, the Covid situation in the UK is surprisingly stable (given the absence of mask-wearing and restrictions) with higher caseloads not producing the high hospitalisation rates of previous peaks. High mortality estimates have been revised downwards.

Wear a mask, be sensible, and get a jab/booster if you safely can, allowing Covid to pass through us with minimal impact. Lockdowns will slow its passage and we need it to pass rapidly before the jabs wear off. Governments should have prioritised the expansion of dedicated Covid care sites. They have failed their citizens by not doing this. They are an important part of this phase where Covid passes through a largely vaccinated community.

A sensible post from someone who's been vaccinated. Thank you.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

When the Governments of France and Germany in a foolish, reckless political pique, took the decision to grandstand and question the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

That action cost lives and has brought the EU member states to where that are today.

France, Germany struggle to sell AstraZeneca vaccine safety

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210301-france-germany-struggle-to-sell-astrazeneca-vaccine-safety

Only 273,000 AstraZeneca doses have been administered in France out of 1.7 million received as of end-February, according to health ministry figures.

But both France and Germany refused to authorise the vaccine for people over 65, fanning fears over its effectiveness compared to the two others approved for Europe, from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

Even President Emmanuel Macron didn't do any favours when he described the AstraZeneca jab as "quasi-ineffective for people over 65" -- just hours before the EMA gave its green light.

Macron cretinous idiocy is/was music to the anti-vaxxers ears

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Please do not tell me that you do not know that your protection after 2 shots will go very very down after 8 months.

How does that change that Japan, and almost every other country in the world, consider two doses to be fully vaccinated?

Do you really think you are protected after 8 months in the same level like after, let me say, 4 weeks?

What? Let's stick with the topic we're actually discussing. I'm not sure why you introduced this new topic that has nothing to do with whether or not almost every country in the world considered two doses to be fully vaccinated.

So as you can see, you were wrong on this statement:

Therefore I was saying Burning Bush’s assumption seems to be correct.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Does anybody actually believe what the WHO says?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Yes, some essential parts of what the WHO says can be believed, including this one, because this here is more about health issues and less linked to political issues like that other questions regarding pandemic origin etc.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Does anybody actually believe what the WHO says?

Why wouldn't we?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Maybe my english is too bad and therefore not so clearly to understand.

Let me try again:

Fully vaccinated is equal to fully protection. (For the Covid Vaccines 96%)

You are protected, let us say 96% for 4weeks after your second shot.

So therefore you are fully protected (96%) and considered as fully vaccinated.

But then, after 8 months your protection went down a lot. Let us say down to 30%.

That means you’re a not fully protected (96%) anymore. Just 30%.

How can you be considered as fully vaccinated if your protection is just 30%?

Therefore you need a booster shot, to get again fully protected (96%) and considered as fully vaccinated.

But, there is another pattern:

Let me get back to my question:

How can you be considered as fully vaccinated if your protection is just 30%?

Here is the answer:

If you count the current maximum available shots, which are currently 2 in some countries, and say that everyone who took the 2 shots is considered as fully vaccinated, even the protection went down already to 30%,... then, yes, then you are correct, and you can be considered as fully vaccinated.

But the meaning of fully vaccinated is equal to fully protected.

Or like I said before, the wording “fully vaccinated” is confusing.

What does fully vaccinated mean:

Full Protection?

or

Received maximum available shots?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

And if you behave after 8 months vaccination, in the same way like you behave after 4 weeks vaccination, then it is no wonder why the cases increase.

Why do you think are the booster shots necessary?

Well if your immune system is healthy, no comorbidity condition, than you will auto-recover, no vaccine required. Now if your immune system is not healthy due to comorbidity conditions, that's where you need this vaccine and potentially that booster shot to.. the reduction in effectiveness of the vaccine will be again in comorbidity condition populace only...because if that is not the case, you will be getting these booster shots every 6-12 months for the rest of your life.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Wear a mask, be sensible, and get a jab/booster if you safely can, allowing Covid to pass through us with minimal impact. Lockdowns will slow its passage and we need it to pass rapidly before the jabs wear off

This makes absolutely no sense. Arguing that people should get infected uncontrollably even when vaccination is nowhere near complete is not a solution, there is nothing wrong with slowing down the spreading EVEN if the immunity drops, because except for immunocompromised people the immunity is still better than not being vaccinated at this point (just not as good as public health authorities want it to be), and because there is no problem in increasing that immunity again.

Well if your immune system is healthy, no comorbidity condition, than you will auto-recover, no vaccine required. 

The medical and scientific consensus is that vaccines decrease importantly the risk of complications, hospitalizations, long term health problems and death even on healthy young people. If at some point the immunity of young healthy people decreases to levels comparable to unvaccinated populations (something that has not happened yet) boosters would be as necessary as the original vaccination.

Also there is no evidence that boosters will be required indefinitely, even for specially vulnerable people. Several of the classic childhood vaccines have required boosters months or years after the original inoculations to produce life long immunity, nothing indicates this is impossible for COVID.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Europe battles COVID surge as WHO warns of 700,000 more deaths:

Is Europe entering the 4th wave of the variants' attack and becoming the epicenter again?

Germany thinks so, others might not.

A total of 2.2million deaths in Europe by March 2022 is a low estimate.

Expect more, many more..

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The medical and scientific consensus is that vaccines decrease importantly the risk of complications, hospitalizations, long term health problems and death even on healthy young people.

Well same is the case with a healthy immune system.. you may want to keep your immune system healthy..with

the resulting change in life style that is required.. or remain dependent on vaccinations, medications..the later is easy, the former requires effort. What will the vax companies do if everyone has natural healthy immune system..

1 ( +4 / -3 )

the resulting change in life style that is required.. or remain dependent on vaccinations, medications..the later is easy, the former requires effort. What will the vax companies do if everyone has natural healthy immune system.

Vaccinations and medications are not just easy, they are also something that benefit even people on top condition already that still see a decrease of risk. That means there is zero need to do either one thing or the other, doing both is the best. Companies developing vaccines would not have any problem with people being healthy, because healthy people still benefit from the vaccines.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Seems like vaccinations, and mask mandates aren't working globally.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

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