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Europe faces dilemma on Russians fleeing Putin's draft

42 Comments
By Max DELANY and Anne-Laure MONDESERT

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42 Comments

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I have never had the acquaintance of a politically belligerent or aggressive Russian, mostly IT specialists are calm, with a infectious dry sense of humour.

If they are fleeing, to avoid fighting in a war with there neighbours they want nothing to do with at the very least listen to there pleas.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Yrral

"Ukraine agreed to lease Crimean naval facilities to Russia for 20 years until 2017, with an automatic 5 years renewal option. Russia would pay Ukraine $97 million annually for leasing Crimean bases. This payment was deducted from the cost of Russian gas provided and billed to Ukraine."

Yes, a base, not the whole of Crimea, and that contract finished this year.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

If Russia is as bad and dystopian as Westerners claim, then protesting let alone attempting to 'overthrow' it would be suicidal. You'd literally end up dead in a ditch. So Western leaders literally expect these people to throw their lives away rather than flee. After all the 'refugees welcome' nonsense, this is a rather grotesque standard to suddenly see them take.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Rain,tell this to the European,that negotiated the Minsk Agreement

Show me where in the Minsk agreement it says “Crimea is Russian”.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

Rain,tell this to the European,that negotiated the Minsk Agreement

-23 ( +1 / -24 )

Wallace,I am pro legal in establishment of the fact, Ukrainain did give up Crimea and some Donbas region,a treaty is a binding contract in law

-22 ( +2 / -24 )

Crimea was ceded to Russia legally,though under force

There is no “legal” way to get territory “under force”. This is a fundamental principle of international law.

20 ( +21 / -1 )

Yrral

always the pro-Russia anti-Ukraine comments. Which side are you on? The invader or the defender? Thousands of Russians have been detained for protesting about the war and the call-ups.

From 24 February to 4 September 2022, OHCHR recorded 13,917 civilian casualties in Ukraine: 5,718 killed and 8,199 injured.

Gen. Valeriy Zaluzhny, commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed forces, said this week at a public forum that Ukraine has lost 9,000 military personnel. Aug 24, 2022.

More than 300,000 Russian citizens and residents are estimated to have left Russia by mid-March 2022 as political refugees and economic migrants, and due to a desire to evade criminal prosecution for opposing the invasion.

Russia has lost nearly 1,300 tanks – an impressive 40% of its total operational tank fleet. 

August, DOD Policy Chief Colin Kahl said the Russians have lost between 50,000 and 70,000 service members in its war on Ukraine.

16 ( +18 / -2 )

the EU states are being faced with a choice between establishing a precedent that Ukrainians trapped in Zelensky's control can cite if they can make it to the border, or show those Russians who buy the European propaganda that it is propaganda.

Erm, no. Do you think EU states are going to insist that Ukraine allow its fighting men to freely leave just because Russians are fleeing?

How did you arrive at that remarkable conclusion?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

So, when the Putin mandates impact them in Russia, rather than solve the problem of an invasion themselves, they flee their own country? Only a few close leaders and Putin should be fleeing Russia, not all these people afraid of being drafted.

I would support giving fleeing Russians some sort of asylum protection.

Only if they apply in Ukraine, unarmed.

Russians in Russia are impacted by Putin's folly. Solve your problems internally, please. Stop the invasion and killing.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Crimea was ceded to Russia legally,though under force

-25 ( +1 / -26 )

So, because unlike Zelensky, the Russian government isn't blocking people from leaving to escape being called up for duty, the EU states are being faced with a choice between establishing a precedent that Ukrainians trapped in Zelensky's control can cite if they can make it to the border, or show those Russians who buy the European propaganda that it is propaganda.

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

In Texas ,their is a law called the law of adverse possession,if a person squat on the land , and the owner do not challenge the possession of the land and he can legally posses the land of others legally Google Texas Law of Adverse Possession

OK… Russian squatters are being challenged by the land owners though. So what’s your point?

14 ( +15 / -1 )

the most dramatic were from Yakutia and Chechnya, where ethnic Russians or Eastern Slavs are a minority.

They should have a referendum and be allowed to secede, right? Them's the rules.

Google Texas Law of Adverse Possession

Google What Has This Got To Do With Anything.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

In Texas ,their is a law called the law of adverse possession,if a person squat on the land , and the owner do not challenge the possession of the land and he can legally posses the land of others legally Google Texas Law of Adverse Possession

-24 ( +0 / -24 )

I like how the problems Russia can inflict on the West are getting less and less nefarious as it becomes weaker and weaker.

March: “We will cut off access to Russian energy and force Europe to bend to our will! Ha ha ha.”

September: “We will turn our country into such a hellhole that our young men will flee en masse, causing traffic problems at border crossings and much head awkward scratching in European capitals about what to do with them, and thereby force the West to bend to our will. Haha ha.”

11 ( +12 / -1 )

5400 dead and injured soldiers a month according to Zelensky

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

GR,they could of

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

One would hope little Mini-me directed these doomed conscripts to provide their own body bags. The rate they are going through them is just going to keep rising with untrained, undisciplined cannon fodder.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I can certainly understand a ban on or reduction of tourist visas, especially for those countries bordering Russia, but I wouldn’t be opposed to asylum for proven conscientious objectors.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

quote: collective responsibility of Russian citizens.

That is total BS and discredits the stance of those opposing Russia.

I am in no way responsible for the behaviour of my sordid, corrupt and incompetent government. There is nothing I can do to stop them. The Russians people are in the same situation.

quote: Young Russians who don't want to go to war must finally overthrow Putin.

That is ridiculous. Would American hippies in the 60s have had any realistic chance of overthrowing the US government to stop the Vietnam war?

Good for Germany.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

The EU and the rest of the world should be facilitating their exodus, the more that leaves Russia the less soldiers in the battle fields.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Like America during the Vietnam War.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

reality is that parts of recent UA will be part of Russia in next few weeks and UA will be never back in its borders from say 1992....regardless of what USA EU or say western democracies will think about.

Won’t happen. I’ll be here in a few weeks to remind you.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

reality is that parts of recent UA will be part of Russia in next few weeks and UA will be never back in its borders from say 1992....regardless of what USA EU or say western democracies will think about.

lol No it won't. Even if Russia attempts to administer the lands they stole from Ukraine, Ukraine will never allow it. Russian thieves in Ukraine should get used to stochastic violence, because that's exactly what will happen. Putin bit off more than he can chew and now his whole country will pay the price.

16 ( +18 / -2 )

Go to Europe. They've got plenty of space and money for migrants.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Grant visas to ones who can prove they took active part in the anti-war demonstrations.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Bronco

exactly.

antirussian campaign must continue at any cost.facts are facts however if these does not fit into "official" antirussian narrative-these are just simply skipped as media believes that everyones believes to their "min forming news" without checking of other sources...yes there were some small protests,some people runaway to other places,some people were arrested but reality is that these pictures are overplayed and reality is a little bit different.

reality is that parts of recent UA will be part of Russia in next few weeks and UA will be never back in its borders from say 1992....regardless of what USA EU or say western democracies will think about.

-20 ( +2 / -22 )

Russia doesn't have the resources to train and arm 300,000 new soldiers. Local militias in Donbass were being issued WWII era bolt action rifles to use. What do they plan to issue these reservists?

I would support giving fleeing Russians some sort of asylum protection.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Bronco,

are you serious?

Drunk Russians fighting eachother right after being "enlisted".

Others who do their best to avoid "joining" those aggressors.

More who run away (or at least try to).

And those, who still make it to the front line are looking forward to get a washing machine or a Lada as a farewll present for their parents. Coming from the poorest areas of Russia they are looking for even the smallest chance to get some money.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

They didn't run away or at least protest when all those attrocities were committed by those RuSSian marauders. Now they're fearing to be "drafted" with a guarantee to be returned in body-bags. Other countries do better, fighting their government in the 100.000s! Other countries were more successful in dumping their dictators. It needs more RuSSians "at home" to make the change!

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@JTC's mention of Putin sending goons abroad, some carrying Novichok is a good reminder of the extent Putin and his autocratic ilk will go to extend their tentacles beyond Russian borders. Putin's puppet Lukashenko even had his military bering down a commercial airplane to capture a person Lukashenko feared. And still some living in democracies want to trade their freedoms inclusing freedom of movement and have their nation ruled by an autocrat and his rat thugs.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

There are videos of the enlistment centers from all over Russia

not as many as the number of videos showing Russians fleeing the country, or protesting in the streets.

Young guys flooding into the enlistment centers. 

Young guys being forced into the enlistment centers. 

In Chechnya they said the already ambitious enlistment goals were filled to 254%.

thanks to shotgun tactics by the brave TikTok warriors

One must draw the conclusion that the morale is very high all over Russia.

yes, that would explain the protests & the 10’s of 1000’s of people fleeing the country

21 ( +22 / -1 )

These are likely staged propaganda videos. There was a big lack of volunteers before (hence the "self-mobilization calls), and now, what, everyone wants to join? It sounds fishy to me.

There are videos of the enlistment centers from all over Russia. Interestingly the most dramatic were from Yakutia and Chechnya, where ethnic Russians or Eastern Slavs are a minority. Young guys flooding into the enlistment centers. In Chechnya they said the already ambitious enlistment goals were filled to 254%. And Yakutia is so big, it can take still more young guys a few days to reach the centers. One must draw the conclusion that the morale is very high all over Russia.

24 ( +25 / -1 )

A great opportunity for Putin to unleash agents / saboteurs to go outside of its borders and wreck havoc within Western Countries. So, little wonder, some Countries are questioning the wisdom of welcoming so many.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

There are videos of the enlistment centers from all over Russia. Interestingly the most dramatic were from Yakutia and Chechnya, where ethnic Russians or Eastern Slavs are a minority. Young guys flooding into the enlistment centers. In Chechnya they said the already ambitious enlistment goals were filled to 254%. And Yakutia is so big, it can take still more young guys a few days to reach the centers. One must draw the conclusion that the morale is very high all over Russia.

In Sweden it's always been said that the best way to fight with the Russians is to just leave them alone, because when they are threatened, they're at their best.

-31 ( +5 / -36 )

Everything in Russia will fell apart...Putin and his mass murdering Mob will be drawn to justice, and also all his supporters and followers.

The leadership of Russia protects their own children, but send the children of their population into a war which they can never win.

I hope the Russian population will wake up now and do understand what their insane leadership are REALLY doing.

are you volunteering ?

Of course not! These idiotic Pro Russian War supporters are sitting on their sofa , in a safe country, in front of their 72 zoll TV screen, with Potato Chips, and cheering up their mass murdering Russian Idols.

I am wondering what these people would say, if Russia calls them back, back from the safe country where they are currently living, and send them to war.

21 ( +25 / -4 )

Russia....your end is near!

20 ( +25 / -5 )

Aah, so that’s why everyone is fleeing the country, & there are protests on the streets

I think these are the real facts !

are you volunteering ?

28 ( +31 / -3 )

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