European leaders meet to discuss Ukraine as UK troop offer hardens regional resolve

Yes, it is true that Starmer said the US is essential but that is called negotiation, something Trump wouldn't know anything about. What Europe needs to do to deter the russian will end up getting done one way or another.

Europe just love to have meeting and talk, where's the actual money, weapon and troops? Just ask US for that?

UK troops? In early 2023 Russia added 300,000 reservists to its ranks. This is more than the total combined armed forces of the UK, France and Italy. The total stock of artillery shells in the UK is about the same as that fired by Russia in three days. That is days not weeks or months. The UK is not the military super power it was 200 years ago. But let Starmer enjoy his moment of political pantomime.

Mr KiplingToday 07:21 am JST

Europe is 3x the population and 4x the gdp of russia. There should be a way for the free countries to send russia packing.

sakurasukiToday 07:00 am JST

Europe just love to have meeting and talk, where's the actual money, weapon and troops? Just ask US for that?

They haven't been faced with a US administration actively surrendering its position overseas before.

The US is being run by a bunch crazies,and the European better realize how crazy Trump administration is

UK troops? In early 2023 Russia added 300,000 reservists to its ranks. This is more than the total combined armed forces of the UK, France and Italy. The total stock of artillery shells in the UK is about the same as that fired by Russia in three days. That is days not weeks or months. The UK is not the military super power it was 200 years ago. But let Starmer enjoy his moment of political pantomime.

Have to laugh at the Russian propaganda.

Fascist Russia is such a "super power" that it still cannot defeat Ukraine after 3 long years, and hundreds of thousands of Russian suckers put in body bags. They are so "strong" they have resorted to putting little North Koreans on the front line as fodder.

And we were told they'd take Kiev within 72 hours.

The British Army is totally unable to confront the Russian military. Starmer is pumping smoke through a trumpet and trying to pretend the Europeans haven't been frozen out of the proceedings.

Besides, there won't be a need for an EU-UK-whoever force as Moscow will never permit one to operate, and the security guarantees are guaranteed by the Russian armed forces already there. No UN mandate will be forthcoming. Russia has indicated it will attack any offensive force there without the necessary permit (with a stamp required from Moscow).

Not surprising the first round will include Lavrov and Ushakov - two real trusted hands. Sergey Viktorovich may be the more well known, but don't underestimate Yuri Viktorovich by any measure: he knows how to play hardball, isn't afraid to and has the complete authority to do so.

The point Lavrov made has been made before: Russia won't be ceding an inch of territory - it will be the reverse, which means the deal outlined during the Swiss-waste-of-time as a mere baseline: combine it with Istanbul, more onward and outward from there and we might have a decent agreement between the US and Russia (which as sovereign states, get to decide).

Important to observe, since Russia is winning it doesn't need a deal and can just conclude it with fighting, which gives them a massive upper hand in negotiations, which quite frankly will be lopsided in their direction. There is not much the US can really do.

There is not much the US can really do.

The US industrial military complex has already made huge profits on this war, over $110 billions worth of (American) made weapons (think of job creations, Wall Street historical records), and don't forget the highly polluted LNG trade deals coming from Texas: three times as expensive of the much cleaner Russian gas option. Those were the main objective of the US administration after all, and they seem pretty content to wrap things up.

FosToday 07:30 am JST

As we all know the main responsible for this full scale disaster is the big US industrial military complex, driving the Wall Street historical records with the multibillion dollars of weapons, all American made.

Still Putin's War.

JJEToday 07:38 am JST

Besides, there won't be a need for an EU-UK-whoever force as Moscow will never permit one to operate, and the security guarantees are guaranteed by the Russian armed forces already there. No UN mandate will be forthcoming. Russia has indicated it will attack any offensive force there without the necessary permit (with a stamp required from Moscow).

The only stamp needed is an unconditional ceasefire. If russians want to continue to be chewed up on the battlefield, that is fine.

Not surprising the first round will include Lavrov and Ushakov - two real trusted hands.

Lavrov isn't even told when there is an invasion going on.

more onward and outward from there and we might have a decent agreement between the US and Russia (which as sovereign states, get to decide).

Ukraine is also a sovereign state with 100% UN recognition.

There is not much the US can really do.

There could have been but an administration with cojones would have been required. Makes sense you gaslighted against that.

As mentioned extensively relating to yesterday's announcement by Starmer, this is not a serious proposal:

The UK military (especially the army) is a shambles. From its once impressive Cold War size it has been shrunk to less than 75 thousand. Severe budgetary issues exist. There is a lack of equipment, antiquated obsolete CW-era gear and stuff from their Iraq/Afghanistan things (which amounted neo-colonialist crackdowns on native locals) that are inappropriate to a symmetric conflict, of which they have no recent experience. And it's the smallest size in 200 years with abysmal retention and recruitment.

The British military is short of munitions of all types - the army even has a bullet shortage! They are down to an incredible sum of 14 modern artillery systems (yes, 14! They gifted anything of relevance to Ukraine). They have no IFVs that aren't over 40 years old. The tank force is something like a shade over 100 and undergoing a multiyear refit. The new wheeled APCs have got all manner of issues, not the least causing permanent hearing damage to troops.

It gets worse: more admirals than combat ships, more generals than battalions, more air marshals than squadrons. It has got so top heavy with scrambled egg, they are only competitive in officer's cocktail lounge events. The national broadcaster highlighted many of these points just two days before Starmer's nonsensical announcement and it is hardly a secret to begin with. And this is the short version.

Bottom line: this is perhaps more about assembling a "Euro coalition", trying to pretend they all haven't lost their seat at the table, as the UK is simply not capable of confronting the Russian military in Ukraine.

And yet the usual suspects keep going with the manipulation of narrative, same style as we have seen for the last 3 years (i.e. Economic sanctions would kill the Russian economy, Russia is taking massive casualties in Ukraine and will have to negotiate)

Reality check: after three long years of blood puddles and promises of victory the war in Ukraine has mercilessly brought us back to the real world: the one recognized by Zelensky, the impossibility of winning. 

Once again this conflict reveals an unbelievable hypocrisy: regional or global powers act based on balances of power and not on motives that have to do with morals and ethics.

Lets not forget the top 100 arms-producing and military services companies in the world are in order:

Lockheed Martin (USA)

Raytheon Technologies (USA)

Northrop Grumman (USA)

Boeing (USA)

General Dynamics (USA)

Once a peace agreement is made between Ukraine and Russia, the UK and Europe will have to put together a peace force. The peacekeepers' role will be to observe and maintain the peace treaty, not to confront Russian troops. Trump has stated that there will be no American troops in Ukraine, so who else? will be involved?

Drones will be a major part of it.

Trump's main interest is the Ukraine rare earth minerals.

Is Keir Starmer also prepared for his peacekeepers to fire on Ukrainian positions if Ukraine breaks the peace?

If not, Russia will never accept them as peacekeepers.

Do the EU-Brussels globalists ever meet anyone but themselves? These people are an eternal echo chamber with endless moral posturing and feeble decision making. They are in a state of denial after being bluntly told they won't have a seat at the table. First it is shock, then cope and now what they do best - collective therapy in the form of meetings to unruffle their hallowed feathers.

(Lavov said last night there is no point in the EU people having a seat at the table, as no one knows exactly why they even need to be there in the first place, even them)

As the UK military is clearly not up to the challenge of confronting the Russian military in Ukraine, that means a 'Euro-force' type scenario. Problem here is they are even less capable of fielding a credible force. Bits and pieces from here and there, a patchwork of different mainly west Europe contingents. Same lack of equipment/munitions issues apply. They can't just assemble it; nor can they pay for it.

The article quotes Scholz and he needs a reality check: Russia will react poorly to German troops over there for what should be obvious reasons. The same applies to their west (and east) Europeans collaborators.

The media narrative is desperately pushing this "ceasefire is coming" version of events. Wake up and smell the coffee: Moscow won't agree to any ceasefire that 'freezes' this conflict, brings a foreign force onto the invasion routes to European Russia and - this is the kicker - allows Kyiv to rearm and commence hostilities down the track.

Any belief to the contrary is/was in error. Very serious error.

NATO and the U.S. should be united as one. This is bizarre.

If Russia refuses European peacekeepers in Ukraine there will be no peace treaty. The UK peacekeepers would be part of a larger NATO force.

Putin and Russia cannot afford an endless war and also need a peace treaty. More than 100,000 casualties of Russian troops.

U.S. leader Donald Trump arranged bilateral peace talks with Russia, excluding European allies and Ukraine from negotiations to end the war

More half truth and propaganda by western media.

U.S. State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce said the conversation would determine if the Russians were serious about peace talks, "about perhaps if that first step is even possible". For its part, the Kremlin said the talks would focus on "restoring the entire complex of Russian-American relations".

It is clear this meeting isn't a peace negotiations but a meeting to determine IF Russia is serious and what was left out of the article was the comment repeated multiple times by the US Representative that "No peace deal or formal negotiations will be reached or held without Ukraine"

Kellogg is set to arrive in Ukraine for three days of talks that will include a meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky.

"I don’t think it’s reasonable or feasible to have everybody sitting at the table,” he says.

"Zelensky is the elected leader of a sovereign nation and those decisions are his and nobody will impose those on an elected leader of a sovereign nation,” Kellogg says.

So basically he is meeting BOTH SIDES just not at the same time or table.

So much for unbias reporting!

There is no "bilateral" negotiations but an attempt at trilateral just not everyone at the same table.

A great example as to why we need to verify everything western MSM prints and says.

If Russia and its vassal state the US insist on going it alone, Europe should simply set up its own group, invite Ukraine in, and try and work things out from that side. If the US is going to be openly partisan in its approach, Europe should counterbalance that.

Zelenskyy has already made it clear that any proposal from the Russia-US alliance is going to be refused, and you can hardly blame him.

Peacekeepers that support a particular side in a conflict are NOT peacekeepers. The UN should dispatch real peacekeepers from Kenya.

Moscow doesn't need a ceasefire and it certainly doesn't need a peace treaty - and nor does it need either that don't address the core issues that provoked the conflict in the first place, including national security concerns of Russia. as well as the wider Eurasian-global-security architecture, which includes multipolar partners, in conjunction with decent, sovereign countries.

The western media are pushing this ceasefire narrative but it is just more spin.

The entire raison d'etre of the conflict was based on keeping NATO away from the steppes of Ukraine - yet Russia is going to sign a ceasefire that permits a massive NATO coalition in? Nonsensical stuff.

Nor does Moscow want back in the G7 investment club.

Nor will the strategic partnership with China or others be called off.

Bottom line: Russia will prosecute the conflict till the objectives are achieved or they are agreed to.

Zelenskyy has already made it clear that any proposal from the Russia-US alliance is going to be refused, and you can hardly blame him.

Well you sort of can blame him and the Ukrainian government.

Prior to Russia's invasion, instead of easing tensions with the separatist regions and reducing or removing "excuses" for Russia to invade.

Ukraine doubled down on upsetting it's Russian minority by passing multiple anti Russian, anti Russian language, forced seizure and course conversion to the "officially" government backed orthodox church, etc... this doesn't justify Russia's invasion but it gave Putin plenty of "reasons" (AKA excuses ) to "justify" (more exices) his invasion.

I don't know what Ukraine thought would happen, passing laws clearly anti ethnic Russian, seizing Russian affiliated orthodox church land and forcing conversion to the official government backed Ukrainian church and thinking "ah Russia isn't going to do anything".

The chance to "negotiate" with the rebel regions was squandered and made impossible by all the moves Ukraine did to go after its Russian minority.

FosToday 08:15 am JST

And the next 5 are Chinese.

Trump has spoken with Putin "grandpa in his bunker" and told Trump he wants a peace treaty with Ukraine. Putin also said Ukraine would be involved with discussions.

I bet Putin will demand no European boots on the ground (as well as no Ukraine in NATO - which Trump already agrees to). But Trump will be thinking hey, they can defend my mineral resources in Ukraine. Zhelensky must be thinking about the nuclear option. It wouldn't be that hard for them to build a few bombs and tell both Putin and Trump to get lost. If Ukraine isn't allowed into NATO, I bet that's what he'll try to do, and Russia will have a meltdown. In the meantime the Russian army is taking a serious mauling and is running out of equipment. On the battlefied things aren't going well for them, so there is pressure on Putin and he can't keep it up for long. Trump is giving Russia an opportunity to keep what they've gained so that he can gloat, call himself a peacemaker and grab Ukraine's resouces. The big question will be is Ukraine/Europe willing to go along with it. From their perspective it's a bad deal.

AntiquesavingToday 09:08 am JST

Prior to Russia's invasion, instead of easing tensions with the separatist regions and reducing or removing "excuses" for Russia to invade.

russia invaded before the Euromaidan was even complete. There is no legal justification for Putin's War of Aggression.

Antiquesaving

Zelenskyy has already made it clear that any proposal from the Russia-US alliance is going to be refused, and you can hardly blame him.

Well you sort of can blame him and the Ukrainian government.

Victim blaming?

Prior to Russia's invasion, instead of easing tensions with the separatist regions and reducing or removing "excuses" for Russia to invade.

Pretexts rather than excuses. I.e., Putin could care less about the people in the Donbass. He's flattened enough of their cities to prove that.

Fighting had died down considerably in the region compared to the first couple of years. Russia would sign Minsk agreements in bad faith and then break them. To be honest, Russia should never have been a party to the Minsk agreements - they were suppling arms and troops to the separatists.

Ukraine doubled down on upsetting it's Russian minority by passing multiple anti Russian, anti Russian language, forced seizure and course conversion to the "officially" government backed orthodox church, etc... this doesn't justify Russia's invasion but it gave Putin plenty of "reasons" (AKA excuses ) to "justify" (more exices) his invasion.

Really? That excuses invasion? Again these are Russian pretexts and not the reason for any invasion, so why bring them up?

I don't know what Ukraine thought would happen, passing laws clearly anti ethnic Russian, seizing Russian affiliated orthodox church land and forcing conversion to the official government backed Ukrainian church and thinking "ah Russia isn't going to do anything".

Well, it wasn't the reason for invasion. The reason was Russian imperialism, Putin wanting political control of Kyiv (hence the Kyiv invasion) and because Putin didn't believe that Ukraine was a sovereign nation.

Also, Putin seeked to eradicate the Ukrainian language and culture to secure his gains.

The chance to "negotiate" with the rebel regions was squandered and made impossible by all the moves Ukraine did to go after its Russian minority.

Not at all. And remember the separatists were created by Russia with their little green men starting the civil war in the Donbas.

Russia's Lavrov questions Europe's role in Ukraine talks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzgWfUk_vUA

Lavrov Speech Live Putin's Aide Sergey Lavrov Speaks on Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Donald Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1gZzdFJng

Unless the cringing, toe curling irresponsible hapless incompetent array of EU/UK leadership develop any semblance of solidarity, a modicum of genuine support for Ukraine, its people, Europe even

Other than this gruesome heinous charade display of a damage limitation media spectacle "working lunch" a facile infelicitous pretence, akin to gross political ineptitude, little wonder Russian/US see Europe as a non entity to be ignored.

This could be just prelude, to Putin's Russia undermining EU eastern satellite states.

President Trump has clearly stated no more freeloading sponging off US taxpayers.

JD Vance even questioned EU/UK "values", whether US people government even recognised such "values" should be associated with US present NATO commitment.

Europe has a duty of care to its citizens, its people to take security seriously.

Finally some constructive conversations coming out of Europe. Talks of increasing defence spending above the 2% threshold is a start, 5% would be ideal.

Boots on the ground in Ukraine is a huge step and hopefully it is a serious consideration. The Russians will need to take this into serious consideration regardless of their posturing as they would risk a much larger conflict and no guarantees that China would be on their side.

If anything, this is the fate of the Russian federation at stake here.

itsonlyrocknroll

JD Vance even questioned EU/UK "values", whether US people government even recognised such "values" should be associated with US present NATO commitment.

Nobody cares what the utter sellout JD Vance says about "values". He's obviously got none.

This "summit" was never seriously intended to reach a decision, or even a consensus around increasing defence spending.

The theme has been a hapless display of lame excuses, we will "brake our budget"

Keir Starmer demands Donald Trump provide a US “backstop” to any European peacekeeping force in Ukraine.

This is delusionary, blinkered self-deception, wallow in political self denial,.

Think, what if Ukraine refuses to agree any US/Russian terms for a ceasefire?

Think, US could well simply demand that Europe either take its reasonability seriously, or Putin forces will continue war, until Ukraine will have little choice other than be forced into a humiliating unconditional surrender.

Underworld, do you understand fully the consequences, what is at stake here?

Understand why JD Vance caused so much consternation in Europe?

Understand why Europe has to care?

Underworld I don't believe you do.

It is what lurks behind JD Vance at present verbal volleying.

Donald Trump has been clear about US government open scepticism of/to future NATO members commitment to providing even adequate security guarantees for their own citizens.

If US government continues downsizing its European forward bases, as part of this peace deal, do you really want to picture such a scenario, the outcomes?

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:11 am JST

AntiquesavingToday 09:08 am JST

> Prior to Russia's invasion, instead of easing tensions with the separatist regions and reducing or removing "excuses" for Russia to invade.

> russia invaded before the Euromaidan was even complete. There is no legal justification for Putin's War of Aggression

Euromaidan was lead by

Azov.

Tell us the difference

Das Reich

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/SS-Panzer-Division_symbol.svg

Azov

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/CC_AZOV_logo.svg/1089px-CC_AZOV_logo.svg.png

itsonlyrocknroll

Donald Trump has been clear about US government open scepticism of/to future NATO members commitment to providing even adequate security guarantees for their own citizens.

Sure. But that is because neither he nor JD Vance understand foreign policy. They are rather simplistic in their thinking.

Trump especially has never understood NATO and its purpose. That's on Trump, not Europe.

And, of course, Republicans and Democrats passed a bill during Biden's administration to not allow a president to disband NATO. They knew that Trump lacked understand in the value of NATO and hence wanted to safeguard it.

If US government continues downsizing its European forward bases, as part of this peace deal, do you really want to picture such a scenario, the outcomes?

No. But Trump was elected and these are the consequences.

Antiquesaving

russia invaded before the Euromaidan was even complete. There is no legal justification for Putin's War of Aggression

Euromaidan was lead by

Azov.

Nope. It wasn't.

Listen please, fully absorb Russian foreign minister Lavrov utter contempt distain for EU leadership its member states.

“I do not know what Europe would do at the negotiating table. Given the attitude of European states to the war, he is not sure what contribution they would make if they were invited. If Europe wants to continue the war in Ukraine, why should it be invited to negotiations.”

This "war" this "conflict" is not by any means going to end at Ukraine capitulation.

No, Putin has by no means finished with EU leadership member states hostilely towards Russia.

One way or another "scores" are going to be settled.

The government of China "despot dictators in arms" will assist eagerly.

Underworld

Today 10:20 am JST

Antiquesaving

> russia invaded before the Euromaidan was even complete. There is no legal justification for Putin's War of Aggression

> Euromaidan was lead by

> Azov.

> Nope. It wasn't

Funny, tell that to the USA, France and UK, all have policies that "justify" intervention, invasion, etc... to "protect" their country and citizens interests! Funny how these 3 claim a " right" but tell others they don't have that same right!

The USA in particular has invaded, established coups, etc... to " protect USA interests" on multiple occasions.

There is reality could have only been two courses of sanction/action here day on Feb 2022.

Fight along side Ukraine, or not, so condemning Ukraine, its people courage to suffer a excruciating slow death.

French President Emmanuel Macron welcomes Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer

I want to send both two white feathers, cowards in arms.

Antiquesaving

Funny, tell that to the USA, France and UK, all have policies that "justify" intervention, invasion, etc... to "protect" their country and citizens interests! Funny how these 3 claim a " right" but tell others they don't have that same right!

The USA in particular has invaded, established coups, etc... to " protect USA interests" on multiple occasions.

This is pure whataboutism. I'm not defending the US, France or the UK.

But I condemn Putin's imperialist invasion.

As I have always thought, they're getting ready to throw Ukraine under the bus. I think Putin will wait out the U.S electorate, Trump will leave office, Russia will rearm, regroup, retrain, and learn. Then they'll be back in 5 years. Not too dissimilar to how we threw Finland under the bus in 1939, we sold out Poland in 1945, we also accepted Anschluss 1938, the Sudetenland 1938. It was peace in our time each time he came back for more. we saw the same with Putin and Georgia, Crimea, Donbas, I don't think Putin will want any NATO troops in Ukraine. He is playing the same story as Chamberlain. I would love to think this is a ploy to force Europe to start investing in its armed forces. Again not to similar to the 30s of a peace dividend post WW1.

I also expect any deal to have the same deal as the Minsk agreement, that no one will be prosecuted, and finally, Putin will be welcomed back into the political world.

Critical to recognize ALL these select EU "leaders" with exception of Italian PM, who aligns with DJT, are badly weakened politically, essentially lame ducks. Why?

Because they've ignored their voters, who want mass unvetted immigration stopped, especially from Ukraine, along with military support of this Proxy War they deem unwinnable and a dangerous pathway to WWIII.

Above "leaders" now taking measures to Suppress Free Speech of above voters' valid immigration concerns, VP Vance is correct - EU is destroying its Democratic Values

These same EU leaders made ZERO effort for years to seek peace, NOBODY reached out to Putin, why now?

They've done everything to prevent peace, ignoring their voters valid concern, destroying Free Speech and investigating political parties opposed to war etc.

DJT & Putin Correctly Deem EU Leadership as Insincere

JJEToday  07:38 am JST

The British Army is totally unable to confront the Russian military. Starmer is pumping smoke through a trumpet and trying to pretend the Europeans haven't been frozen out of the proceedings.

I have to agree with this statement. The only reason Putin wouldn't attack the Brits if boots were on the ground is purely because of NATO's article 5. And the nuclear deterrent. The Army is half what it was in the 80s. The Royal Navy has more admirals than warships. According to Wikipedia, there are about 40. The RAF has retired as many fighting aircraft as it could. We are not a top tear force anymore. We cut back way too much, in favor of pushing school leavers into Uni, and into debt. The forces are not seen as a career anymore as it once was.

HopeSpringsEternalToday  10:59 am JST

These same EU leaders made ZERO effort for years to seek peace, NOBODY reached out to Putin, why now?

Maybe because Putin was allowed to get away with so much in the past. Appeasement never worked. Georgia, Crimea, Donbas, and now he wants the whole of Ukraine. Sometimes you can't talk to a dictator. And it is for Ukraine to decide, not the EU leaders. How much land would Germany, Poland, Lavia, Estonia, Lithuania, France, or the UK give up? My guess is ZERO.

How much of your garden would you give up, if the bully next door wanted it. Probably ZERO.

HopeSpringsEternal

These same EU leaders made ZERO effort for years to seek peace, NOBODY reached out to Putin, why now?

Because nobody thinks that Trump will get a peace deal out of Putin.

Neil Chamberlain reached out to Hitler, and we see how that transpired.

*Neville Chamberlain

American are buying the Russian rope too hang themselves,if you are an American and care about your country,being a sellout is being of an American

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who ahead of the meeting said he was willing to send peacekeeping troops to Ukraine, on Monday evening said there must be a U.S. security commitment for European countries to put boots on the ground.

He said it was too early to say how many British troops he would be willing to deploy.

These two sentences, at start of article, really blow the fallacy wide open. There will be no article 5 and it won't be covered under a NATO mission (that wouldn't stop the inevitable Russian retaliation with no UN mandate anyway).

Starmer has to beg DJT for security guarantees for his own 'peacekeeping' force - how pathetic. This exposes a few harsh truths: Starmer and his EU wannabes are essentially proposing to put a hypothetical force in that amounts to a tripwire force (I.E. hoping to draw in the US when Russia retaliates).

This is a good recipe to turn a proxy war into a real one fast. Can't imagine the White House will sign on to this.

Underworld

Today 10:41 am JST

This is pure whataboutism. I'm not defending the US, France or the UK.

> But I condemn Putin's imperialist invasion.

No you are being hypocritical by trying to separate the two.

You cannot sit back and ignore the fact these 3 would go to war over the same thing and then say Russia can't.

Who are the ones most vocal about Russia's invasion other than Ukraine? USA, UK and France.

When they remove their own policies of their right to attack and invade to protect their interests, then they can claim the right to tell Russia it can't. But as long as these 3 continue to claim the same thing Russia claims as it's reasons/right then they have no legitimacy.

The do as I say not as I do doesn't fly here.

"European leaders meet to discuss Ukraine as UK troop offer hardens regional resolve."

Why were they hibernating for the last 2 years, in their ivory towers? Now President DJT has decided to do something about this war, they have come out of hibernation. It's just comical if President DJT was for war they would be against. If he is for peace they are for war!! Just bunch of hypocrites in sheep's skin pathetic!

If you remember how all the Russian tanks were gathered before the invasion of Ukraine, and Putin was reasuring everyone that they were just a traing exercise, and now notice all the Russian troops amassed in Belarus, you can feel fairly certain that Europe had better get ŕeady for an attack, sooner rather than later.

I do like how the leaders, the press, western European politicians, etc... left out a very important part if this little conference.

Poland has "rejected" any proposal for a European military, rejected any idea of Polish troops going into Ukraine, rejected being a base for any non NATO military intervention and only way a NATO intervention would be acceptable is if article 5 is implemented and that will only be possible if Russia actually attacks a NATO partner.

Poland made it clear, each European country needs to strengthen their own military and

Sikorski made it clear that sending Polish troops was not an option. “Poland’s duty to NATO is to protect its eastern flank, meaning its own territory,” he said.

So all the sword rattling and chest pounding means nothing if Poland is not on board.

No Russian appeasement, rather reality that Ukraine civil war which started in 2014 involved former Ukraine citizens who were Russian speaking in conflict with Kiev regime, who have no desire to ever be Ukrainian again.

Can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again, even with 2020 "Hindsight" and Ukraine cannot win militarily.

Meanwhile this global proxy war has divided the world, destroying currency real asset purchasing power and thus fueling inflation = Must be stopped.

Yen in 2024 alone lost (35%) of its $real (CRB index) asset purchasing power, and that was BIG improvement over Far Larger 2022 & 2023 purchasing power losses!

Antiquesaving

This is pure whataboutism. I'm not defending the US, France or the UK.

But I condemn Putin's imperialist invasion.

No you are being hypocritical by trying to separate the two.

You cannot sit back and ignore the fact these 3 would go to war over the same thing and then say Russia can't.

I'm not ignoring anything. If you give me an instance, I'll condemn it. I condemn the US's invasion of Iraq.

Who are the ones most vocal about Russia's invasion other than Ukraine? USA, UK and France.

When they remove their own policies of their right to attack and invade to protect their interests, then they can claim the right to tell Russia it can't. But as long as these 3 continue to claim the same thing Russia claims as it's reasons/right then they have no legitimacy.

You could say that, but it's still whataboutism. It doesn't make Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine and less of a crime.

The do as I say not as I do doesn't fly here.

Oh it does. And I will note that you will not condemn Russia for it's illegal war of aggression on Ukraine. So your do as I say, not as I do, doesn't fly here.

Nifty

Today 11:36 am JST

If you remember how all the Russian tanks were gathered before the invasion of Ukraine, and Putin was reasuring everyone that they were just a traing exercise, and now notice all the Russian troops amassed in Belarus, you can feel fairly certain that Europe had better get ŕeady for an attack, sooner rather than later

More fear mongering.

Russia is not going to attack any European country that is a member of NATO and I wish people would stop trying to pretend it will.

It is taking forever to just capture the territories it claimed to have officially Annex namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and at this time it doesn't fully control even one.

The idea Russia will attack a NATO country is just spreading fear because we all know this will not happen.

Let's be real here.

Europe at war over Starmer's Ukraine peace plan: Germany's Scholz storms out of crisis summit and slams UK's 'completely premature' troops pledge - before crucial talks amid fears Trump will withdraw Army from Baltics and leave continent at Putin's mercy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14407423/starmer-ukraine-peace-plan-germany-rejects.html

This whole so called crazy summit has exposed, to be globally ridiculed.

HopeSpringsEternal

No Russian appeasement, rather reality that Ukraine civil war which started in 2014 involved former Ukraine citizens who were Russian speaking in conflict with Kiev regime, who have no desire to ever be Ukrainian again.

Incorrect. It was Russia who started the civil war in the Donbas.

Can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again, even with 2020 "Hindsight" and Ukraine cannot win militarily.

And Vietnam and Afghanistan couldn't win militarily, but they still won their wars against superior imperialist powers.

Meanwhile this global proxy war has divided the world, destroying currency real asset purchasing power and thus fueling inflation = Must be stopped.

Yen in 2024 alone lost (35%) of its $real (CRB index) asset purchasing power, and that was BIG improvement over Far Larger 2022 & 2023 purchasing power losses!

Not a proxy war. It seems that you are only concerned about currency rates and inflation, and not the Ukrainian victims.

Antiquesaving

If you remember how all the Russian tanks were gathered before the invasion of Ukraine, and Putin was reasuring everyone that they were just a traing exercise, and now notice all the Russian troops amassed in Belarus, you can feel fairly certain that Europe had better get ŕeady for an attack, sooner rather than later

More fear mongering.

Russia is not going to attack any European country that is a member of NATO and I wish people would stop trying to pretend it will.

It is taking forever to just capture the territories it claimed to have officially Annex namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and at this time it doesn't fully control even one.

The idea Russia will attack a NATO country is just spreading fear because we all know this will not happen.

Let's be real here

Are you sure? Many respected intelligence agencies disagree.

And if Putin thought that Trump wouldn't respect Article 5, don't you think he wouldn't try?

Western Europe specializes in making messes that the US is expected to come and clean up. World Wars I and II for example, and these days the horrendous mess theyve made of their own countries with Islamic immigration. What a bunch of idiots. And now Western Europe thinks it is going to solve the Russia/Ukraine situation which it has spent the last several years causing and perpetuating. Pathetic!

The EU member states are so immersed in there own selfish vested interests, none can agree if the light on or off.

Squabbling disgraceful toxic self-serving cowards, “Fiddling while Kyiv could burn”

The EU member states are so immersed in there own selfish vested interests, none can agree if the light on or off.

Squabbling disgraceful toxic self-serving cowards, “Fiddling while Kyiv could burn”

Exactly versus DJT's with a true urgency and frankness, the need for the US to be made 'whole' via resources and in doing so the ability to provide military 'security' that Putin actually respect and fear, unlike EU's underfunded and undermanned militaries.

Any European troops in Ukraine will come from countries that are also NATO members but don't go there under the NATO flag.

Trump wants European peacekeepers once a peace agreement is reached.

Underworld

Today 11:53 am JST

Are you sure? Many respected intelligence agencies disagree.

You mean those same "intelligence agencies" that have been consistently wrong for the past 20 years if not more?

Seriously.

These intelligence agencies, think tanks, have consistently been wrong especially since the start of this war.

Go back read their predictions and claims 1 Year ago, 2 years ago etc...

Everything they said was wrong.

Remember "Russia is out of weapons"? How many times did these agencies say that?

Remember it will take Russia 5 to 10 years to rebuild it's military and replace lost equipment?

How accurate was that one?

At this point if one of these intelligence agencies told me water was wet, I would have to verify it myself.

Trump will provide security from US military IF it entails a mission to include economic development, especially resource extraction. Will not be purely a security role but rather broader based, naturally private sector will lead with resource economic development = win:win

Naturally, the devil is in the details, how the negotiation evolves with Putin and Xi. Trump wants to help Ukraine recover and he wants to recover US taxpayer monies.

Zelensky largely side-show, is favorability is crashing, elections long overdue, and Ukraine is losing territory daily in a deeply unpopular war in Ukraine etc.

Translation? Zelensky's days are numbered.

The two Russian diplomats mentioned in the article just arrived in Riyad, SA, disembarking their jet and being whisked away.

Musk posted a video of it, captioned "This is what competent leadership looks like".

Zhelensky must be thinking about the nuclear option. It wouldn't be that hard for them to build a few bombs and tell both Putin and Trump to get lost.

Wow, what a brilliant armchair strategist. It has not a snowballs chance in hell.

The two Russian diplomats mentioned in the article just arrived in Riyad, SA, disembarking their jet and being whisked away.

> Musk posted a video of it, captioned "This is what competent leadership looks like".

No search results for that

Antiquesaving

Are you sure? Many respected intelligence agencies disagree.

You mean those same "intelligence agencies" that have been consistently wrong for the past 20 years if not more?

Seriously.

These intelligence agencies, think tanks, have consistently been wrong especially since the start of this war.

Go back read their predictions and claims 1 Year ago, 2 years ago etc...

Everything they said was wrong.

Remember "Russia is out of weapons"? How many times did these agencies say that?

Remember it will take Russia 5 to 10 years to rebuild it's military and replace lost equipment?

How accurate was that one?

At this point if one of these intelligence agencies told me water was wet, I would have to verify it myself.

I don't think the Dutch Intelligence did all those things?

Russian delegation has arrived:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891597935231590477?refsrc=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1891597935231590477%7Ctwgr%5E050c5125eabff83e206784b2264b4a6e0696fbeb%7Ctwcon%5Es1&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F612885-musk-praises-russians-saudi%2F

The two Russian diplomats mentioned in the article just arrived in Riyad, SA, disembarking their jet and being whisked away.

> Musk posted a video of it, captioned "This is what competent leadership looks like".

It was wrong of Musk to post the claim when peace talks were about to begin. Which side is he on?

Musk is undermining Trump.

Musk is undermining Trump.

Nope. You guys and your wishful thinking!

Reposting widely published, disseminated media (including from Saudi Arabia) of two men factually exiting a jet undermines nothing.

Nor does the factual observation they look (and, more importantly, are) competent, which he correctly identified. Believing the opposite is foolish.

Musk's DOGE VERY relevant to US Military Expenditures and thus the war support to Ukraine. DJT is very happy to have 'heat shield' Musk digging up the facts, which he'll use in these Peace negotiations with Russia and Ukraine, let there be no doubt.

So much fraud, waste, and abuse will be uncovered by DOGE and Musk regarding Ukraine Proxy war support, so one should safely assume Zelensky and the corrupt 'grifters' in Ukraine and US are VERY nervous indeed.

DJT appreciates having Musk empower his ability to negotiate a durable and fair Peace b/w Russia & Ukraine

They need to audit all the 'aid' and money sent to Ukraine. An accounting of every penny and where everything turned up. Any discrepancies need complex investigation and full accountability.

Which is just victim blaming. We know these laws had nothing to do with the invasion, so why bring them up.

It’s one of several coping methods Putin fans employ to help them cope with supporting the invasion.

Because they know that it’s shameful and they hate themselves for it.

I wonder what Trump is saying . . . maybe . . .

Yuk-yuk, look at them all running around when only I alone can fix it. Putin invaded Ukraine because of Joe Bident. It was all Biden's fault in the first place and had I been in there it never would've happened. Well, now that my nazi-saluting wonderboy and I are on the case, we'll try and have Ukraine's surrender wrapped up a week or two. That should make Vlad happy, and then we'll reward ourselves with billions of dollars in tax cuts thanks to the U.S. taxpayer and Elon's gutting of the U.S. government. heh-heh-heh 2025 is going to be a splendid year.

Musk claiming the Russian delegation arriving in Saudi Arabia "This is what competent leadership looks like" is undermining Trump.

Zelensky's BIGGEST problem? DOGE is going to uncover unprecedented US and Ukrainian 'wartime' $corruption

Underestimating them would be undermining one's own side. That is what Musk meant.

The UK and EU cannot be part of the Ukraine peace talks, as they are incapable of negotiating, possessing only a manic desire to defeat Russia on the battlefield at the hands of the surviving Ukrainians. They won't be good as either guarantors or middlemen, let alone as honest broker, as their trust is in complete deficit. They abused this with their shameless conduct as the Minsk guarantors. They have an honesty problem, even with themselves.

No wonder no one wants them anywhere near the adult table.

JJEToday  01:10 pm JST

Underestimating them would be undermining one's own side. That is what Musk meant.

The UK and EU cannot be part of the Ukraine peace talks, as they are incapable of negotiating, possessing only a manic desire to defeat Russia on the battlefield at the hands of the surviving Ukrainians. They won't be good as either guarantors or middlemen, let alone as honest broker, as their trust is in complete deficit. They abused this with their shameless conduct as the Minsk guarantors. They have an honesty problem, even with themselves.

No wonder no one wants them anywhere near the adult table

Bingo, EU pols strictly war mongers carrying out mission of their globalist backers while ignoring will of their voters, who want Ukraine Proxy War madness stopped ASAP

JJEToday  01:10 pm JST

Underestimating them would be undermining one's own side. That is what Musk meant.

The UK and EU cannot be part of the Ukraine peace talks, as they are incapable of negotiating, possessing only a manic desire to defeat Russia on the battlefield at the hands of the surviving Ukrainians. They won't be good as either guarantors or middlemen, let alone as honest broker, as their trust is in complete deficit. They abused this with their shameless conduct as the Minsk guarantors. They have an honesty problem, even with themselves.

No wonder no one wants them anywhere near the adult table

Bingo, EU pols strictly war mongers carrying out mission of their globalist backers while ignoring will of their voters, who want Ukraine Proxy War madness stopped ASAP

JJE

Underestimating them would be undermining one's own side. That is what Musk meant.

What would Musk know? He is clueless about foreign policy.

And in any case, whatever they decide won't lead to peace because Zelenskyy won't agree to it.

Zelensky's BIGGEST problem? DOGE is going to uncover unprecedented US and Ukrainian 'wartime' $corruption

You mean like James Comey's committee did? Oh, no wait, it found absolutely nothing and it ended with his main witness in jail for lying fo the FBI.

Underestimating them would be undermining one's own side. That is what Musk meant.

So now you know what Musk was thinking.

The US and Russia meeting in Saudi Arabia is not peace talks which would have to at least involve Ukraine. It's a meeting to see what each side wants to start peace talks.

Laughable, they can't even defend borders from influx and city streets in their countries from all the crime and terror things that daily happen there. But now they want to meddle in Ukraine - Russia war? That's quite some numbers too big, isn't it.

Sven AsaiToday  01:30 pm JST

Laughable, they can't even defend borders from influx and city streets in their countries from all the crime and terror things that daily happen there. But now they want to meddle in Ukraine - Russia war? That's quite some numbers too big, isn't it.

That's the USA for you. They contradict themselves at every opportunity. I've read endlessly about how they cannot control their border, all of the politicians fighting over the border, and yet they think they can tell Russia what to do? I agree, it's laughable that they can do anything.

Zelensky's BIGGEST problem? DOGE is going to uncover unprecedented US and Ukrainian 'wartime' $corruption

Hence the left is panicking and going hysterical trying to undermine Musk and DOGE.

HSE: thé USA started this conflict no one else. Clinton was back dooring Ukrainian Russian leanings politic back in 2012 also pushing NATO into encroachment toward Russian borders. The USA grubby dirty hands are all over this. This is already taught in Modern European History in Universities throughout Europe. The module is called « The Red Reset Button « Now The USA is neo Fascist are on the Russian side and are aiding Russia. Putin could not asked for a better outcome but if he waited for the USA Neo Fascist to get install it could saved Russia a lot of pain because Trump is so far up Putin rear end this was on the cards.

John-San

HSE: thé USA started this conflict no one else. Clinton was back dooring Ukrainian Russian leanings politic back in 2012 also pushing NATO into encroachment toward Russian borders.

Purtn doesn't care about NATO encroachment toward Russian borders. He said he is fine with FInland joining NATO. This was never about NATO.

Yeah right, Putin not worried about missiles emplacements on Russian borders. LOL

Starmer is a war mongering psychopath who wants to come across as a brave leader of freedom rather than the suppressor of freedom that he really is. He is incapable of being the leader of Britain his actions and his poll ratings show the majority agree with me.

John-San

Yeah right, Putin not worried about missiles emplacements on Russian borders. LOL

Here you go:

https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-russia-no-problem-finland-sweden-join-nato/

And NATO haven't installed nuclear warheads in NATO countries since Turkey in 1952.

World's changed since WWII, nuclear deterrence now overwhelming. Why Trump's not fearful of any Russian threat to NATO. Trump is concerned continued Ukraine Proxy War with strikes into Russia could trigger WWIII.

Risk of WWIII = #1 Reason Trump wants PEACE.