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Ex-radical Ayers distances himself from Obama

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"Ayers, an education professor"

Why isn't this guy in jail?

"President-elect Barack Obama"

No comment.

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Sarge, why don't you like Obama? I think he's yummy and cute. I don't think there is any truth about Obama being friends with Ayers.

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Ayers isn't in jail because the government had (and has) no case against him. Obama is president-elect because a majority of people voted for him and because he had an overwhelming victory in the electoral college.

Sarah Palin, who tried her darndest to drag Obama's name into the dirt for his "associations" with a person against who the government had no case, is still governor of Alaska because, this time at least, her simplistic solutions were tried and found wanting.

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Ah... this will make the few remaining Palin fans upset. I mean, despite her calling people cowards for criticisizing her and her claims that she didn't deserve the rough name-calling, etc., she did her best to drag down Obama with connections her and McCain had to make up. Damn shame for those on the right, but fortunately Americans could see through the lies.

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Ayers wants to distance himself from Obama, who's too liberal for Ayers' taste.

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There's the issue of Obama's association with Ayers, ably addressed by others, and then there's the issue of why hammering on it didn't work for the Right. Camilia Paglia, a maverick feminist, points out:

Blame for the failure of this issue to take hold must also accrue to the conservative talk shows, which use the scare term "radical" with simplistic sensationalism, blanketing everyone under the sun from scraggly ex-hippies to lipstick-chic Nancy Pelosi.

Having never heard of Ayers, she rented the 2002 documentary film The Weather Underground to form an opinion:

It was riveting. Although the film seems to waver between ominous exposé and blatant whitewash, the full extent of the group's bombing campaign is dramatically demonstrated....

Ayers comes off in the film as a vapid, slightly dopey, chronic juvenile with stunted powers of ethical reasoning. The real revelation is his wife, Bernardine Dohrn...Of course I had heard of Dohrn -- hers was one of the most notorious names of our baby-boom generation -- and I knew her black-and-white police mug shot. But I had never seen footage of her speaking or interacting with others. Well, it's pretty obvious who wears the pants in that family!

Her take fits my recollection rather well. But why didn't it work for the right? Well, John McCain's sense of honor prevented him from impugning the patriotism of those on the other side of the fence, including Jane Fonda. This was part of the reason he was beloved by the mainstream media.

But when he found himself trialing he adopted the cause hook, line, and sinker and in the process morphed from moral into self-righteous. It may have played well with the crowd who's always boviating about "The U.S. is Number One!" but didn't play well with those more interested in how the U.S. can use its power most effectively.

A number of McCain supporters were also horrified by the direction the campaign took after bringing Bill Ayers center stage. For example, Francis Shaeffer, who'd written a book entitled AWOL about the need for Americans to serve their country sent the McCain campaign a letter in which he wrote:

“If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as ‘not one of us,’ I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence.” He went on, “You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.”

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They weren't friends - fine. The issue be done then.

The government had no case against him is debatable. He basically used force to better his vision on how things should be. He should be considered not different that those right wingers you guys are always complaining about and I think it is disgusting that he is considered an educator and is allowed to have influence over young people. He is a left wing nut who used right wing methods to get his point across.

Least we not forget that most is his followers were at the time die hard junkies.

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Nessie ( 10:14 ) - One of your increasingly rare good ones.

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Sarge said:

Why isn't this guy in jail?

Because he was never convicted of anything.

I think the more important question is: Sarge, why do you hate American democracy so much? You don't have to answer if you just believe in Bush's anti-democratic policy of prison without a trial.

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Sez says: "the government had ( and has ) no case against him"

Yeah, he's innocent. These terrorists attacks, which his organization carried out, was all just a misunderstanding.

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Leave it to Donkey to defend Bill Ayers, whose organization carried out terrorist attacks.

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goodDonkey :Sarge said: Why isn't this guy in jail?"

Because he was never convicted of anything." Neither was OJ and many other people, doesn't mean that they really didn't do anything bad.

I think the more important question is: Sarge, why do you hate American democracy so much? " Really, I have seen you post counter to what people have voted for... Are you and sarge the same person?

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Ayers proved that Palin was lying. Palin was spewing defamatory lies about Obama. What a shameful woman.

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Sarge,

First off a lot of people had never heard of the guy. Upon learning about him it was clear his actions had been addressed by the judicial system, and long ago. You may not agree with every outcome, but can still respect the process. Moreover, few wanted to refight the Vietnam War.

As Rich Lowery pointed out in the WaPo:

At times, conservatives seemed bizarrely at odds with public sentiment. As the financial system was teetering on the verge of meltdown, conservative blogs were afire with the debate over Obama's association with former Weather Underground leader William Ayers. This was fair game, but it was never going to crowd out the debate over the economy, as some conservatives seemed to hope.

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Neither was OJ and many other people

What are you talking about OJ was found guilty. He is in prison. He was also found guilty of wrongful death in a civil trial.

Skip,

American democracy requires a trial. If Sarge is not for due process then he must hate American democracy. No I am not Sarge. I only have one handle. Please do not insult me like that again.

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By trying to forge an association through such connections as "their children go to the same school" when Ayers' kids were obviously a generation older than Malia and Sasha Obama "up for grabs" voters smelled a hatchet job.

My personal favorite was the depiction of their shared Hyde Park neighborhood as akin to a modern-day commune. It's really kind of an uptight place in fact.

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Sarge said:

Leave it to Donkey to defend Bill Ayers, whose organization carried out terrorist attacks.

I did not defend Bill Ayers. I defended America. Just because you don't believe in America some of us still do. You have slandered the American judicial system and it is not the first time.

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"Ayers and Obama also served together on a Chicago school reform board and a foundation board, but their discussions were limited to the issues before those boards, and the two never talked about anything he wrote in his book."

And it's pure coincidence that Obama and Ayers shared their office with another educator named Mike Klonsky. And it is also a coincidence that Klonsky was a self-described Maoist. And it's pure coincidence that Ayers' wife worked for the same law firm that hired Michelle Obama and then Barack Obama. But politics, and what they really wanted to do to America, never came up.

Yeah. Sure. I'll buy that. I believe everything I read. Why would newspapers, in the midst of an industry-wide slump threatening the existence of some of the most powerful in their business, conceal or distort information damaging to the candidate from the party that wants to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine and silence the blogosphere - which Ayers tries to blame in this case.

All of this 'he's just a guy from my neighborhood' and 'he has been rehabilitated' can be easily refuted.

If it is the truth people are actually interested in.

Have a look for yourself at the posters and photos and sayings that decorate Professor Ayers' door.

Mumia Abu-Jamal, Che Guevara, Malcolm X, all the silly, fetishized failures who are the icons of the radical loser left.

One picture, a thousand words.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2107619/posts

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I have never linked Obama to Ayers. But Ayers screwed up big time and just because the government doesn't have a case against doesn't mean I have to hug him either. He as admitted to doing acts that were dangerous to the public much less cost taxpayers money because he wanted to make a statement.

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skipthesong said:

I was referring to OJ's Not Guilty verdict before the petty civil case.

You said:

Because he was never convicted of anything." Neither was OJ

I simply pointed out that he was convicted of something and therefore it is incorrect to say "Neiter was OJ."

Moderator: No more on OJ. He is not relevant to this discussion.

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Hillary was in fact the first candidate to raise Obama's Weather Underground connection and that should have enabled the McCain campaign to see Bill Ayers was not the second coming of Willie Horton.

As someone posted on a site many months ago which turned out to reflect the viewpoint of the majority:

Maybe if I had health insurance, a real pension and a few million in the bank, I'd care who did what in the Sixties. I'd care who sat on what board with whom. The country has issues and if the political establishment thinks another campaign of petty personal attacks is what we're looking for, they're wrong. My advice to the consultants out there digging for dirt is this: Grow up.

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I could swear that Mr Ayers was never convicted of any crimes. Why even discuss his so called crimes when it means nothing. He will not be convicted of anything so this is a dead subject.

Of course folks like to bring up the WHAT IFs of the world to try and make a point. But it is useless, why not talk about the man today. Let us see who he is now and what he has done.

I would be no one on the right would agree with this since they have other agendas on their plates.

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The answer to why the terrorist Bill Ayers is not rotting in jail is not "Because he was never convicted of anything."

He was freed because the FBI bungled the case. Wiretaps were illegal in the late 70's.

And upon being freed Ayers infamously quipped, "Guilty as sin, free as a bird, it's a great country."

There is a documentary from the 1980's which contains a more in depth look at the Weather Underground, including some pretty chilling testimony from an FBI informant (Larry Grathwohl) in the group - "reeducation" centers, assistance from Cuba, Russia and Red China, dealing with the counter-revolution and liquidating those who resisted reeducation.

"...I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people and they were dead serious."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtZ1xp8rhiM&feature=related

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He was freed because the FBI bungled the case." That is amazing, being freed because someone screws up yet you did a crime...

And upon being freed Ayers infamously quipped, "Guilty as sin, free as a bird, it's a great country."" Sounds like that KKK guy who killed Meger Evers.

GD: I don't know what it is you have against me "you're Mexican right". By complexion perhaps but no. What's your point? Is that meant to insult me?

I had only innocently pointed out that comments you made in the past you denounced the will of the majority and then you used it for your defense. You should be either one way or the other cut and dry.

btw, I don't really know how to use "Non Sequitur" so I don't know what you mean.

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Yet Bill Ayers has clearly been rehabilitated based on his diverse associations, as was pointed out:

Ever notice that the Republicans and surrogates fanning the flames on Barack Obama's association with Ayers are not from Chicago or Illinois? That's because many Illinois Republicans and conservative civic and business leaders in Chicago have some of the exact same ties to Ayers as Obama does. Among those who also served on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge with Obama include former University of Illinois President Stanley Ikenberry, former Northwestern University President Arne Weber, the head of the city's most powerful business group, R. Eden Martin, top executives from petroleum giant BP Amoco, investment banking giant UBS, and the publisher of the Chicago Tribune, a newspaper that has never in it's history endorsed a Democrat for President, served with Obama on the CAC board. The former executive director of the organization says Obama was no closer to Ayers than any other board member. And Ayers was NOT on the board, just part of a large advisory group of educators, school reformers, and business leaders who weighted in on issues and projects that came before the board.

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"Yet Bill Ayers has clearly been rehabilitated based on his diverse associations, as was pointed out"

When?

If you are actually interested in learning if Ayers' views have changed you can hear him and his wife peaking at an SDS reunion 2007. SDS was the group that the Weathermen splintered from.

Ayers:

"We were people who had a moral vision of what was possible. And when we talk, for example, about health care, about peace, we’re talking a language of ethics, not a language of instrumentalism or opportunism, or what we might get. So we have to speak in a language that’s large and generous and encompassing. And then we have to act.

"Empire resurrected and unapologetic, war without end, an undefined enemy that’s supposed to be a rallying point for a new kind of energized jingoistic patriotism, unprecedented and unapologetic military expansion, white supremacy changing its form, but essentially intact, attacks on women and girls, violent attacks, growing surveillance in every sphere of our lives, on and on and on, the targeting of gay and lesbian people as a kind of a scapegoating gesture to keep our minds off of what’s really happening. "

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/bfdb9f9c-01c5-474c-a97d-8f29631d2178

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On ABC, Ayers said the GOP demonized him. why isn't he also coming down on Hillary?

Betzee's points are all good, but this is what I mean people, we are being played by both parties.

First of all, I can bet he welcomed that type of response back in the day. Most people that do things like he is accused of doing welcome.

I'd have a problem if he showed up at my party.

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skip

I just wanted you to realize that because you are Cuban and not Mexican, it can be an insult if someone who should know says you are Mexican. Not that you think Mexicans are lower than you. It is simply that you are unique as far as your background goes. I am also unique and any attempt to make me someone else I find offensive. I have nothing against you. I just thought it would be easier for you to feel like I felt than to try to explain it. I am not Sarge.

Non Sequitur means "it does not follow." In other words just because I believe that guilt and imprisonment are reliant upon a trial does not mean that I have to accept anything concerning "when it is flawed." There is no relationship between the two issues. Just because people are entitled to due process does not mean they are responsible for the government's handling of legal cases or any other legal matter. Of course you can argue that people should not be entitled to due process and that is what screws up the legal system. But that would return us to my original point. That argument is essentially against American Democracy because it is at the core of the constitution although it is introduced in the Bill of Rights.

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When?

Some time ago according to Mayor Daley:

There are a lot of reasons that Americans are angry about Washington politics. And one more example is the way Senator Obama’s opponents are playing guilt-by-association, tarring him because he happens to know Bill Ayers.

I also know Bill Ayers. He worked with me in shaping our now nationally-renowned school reform program. He is a nationally-recognized distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois/Chicago and a valued member of the Chicago community.

I don’t condone what he did 40 years ago but I remember that period well. It was a difficult time, but those days are long over. I believe we have too many challenges in Chicago and our country to keep re-fighting 40 year old battles.

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"according to Mayor Daley."

Oh, yes. Him. The guy who inherited control of the Chicago Machine.

There's an impartial player.

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I don't think anyone is really supporting Ayers. First of all, he is an ugly dude with and equally ugly wife who both have gotten caught up in that drugged out time of the 60's. Basically educated junkies who were the type that went out and tried to prove acid is good for us.

However, if we don't come down on Ayers, even though the government let him go, he still did what he did. I do believe in street justice especially when some overpaid civil worker - FBI makes such a mistake and allows people to walk. Again, if we let ourselves belittle Ayers (and let's drop the Obama connection, its done and over with but Ayers is still fair game I say), we are saying that its ok to cause harm to those who oppose your political beliefs. Its ok to hurt those politicians who run counter to your agenda... This is what Castro would do and his echelons still do. If we were to let Ayers and his kind move up the ladder and take political posts, just think how many people would either be imprisoned or killed?

We should not buy his book - if to be read it should be free. We should not allow him to get media attention. I can see him getting a bit high on the current lime light he is under.

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Most of my knowledge of the period comes from Frank Kusch's Battleground Chicago: The Police and the 1968 Democratic National Convention.

As a reviewer notes: “Frank Kusch’s compelling account of the clash between Mayor Richard Daley’s men in blue and anti-war rebels reveals why the 1960s was such a painful era for many Americans. . . .

Mayor Daley the father was viewed by those who assembled to protest the convention as a fascist. The son who now holds the same office would have no affinity for people who tarnished his father's reputation, which was law-and-order. Daley Senior didn't have any more use for the protesters than you do and there's no evidence his son ever rebelled and adopted views contrary to the old man.

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Ayers = terrorist

Annenberg Foundations Chicago School Initiative = Statistically Insignificant improvement.

=This guy should not be a Teacher.

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powderfinger: Please don't go around asking questions and then mocking said people for posting proof that you call impartial; I mean, after all, you tend to quote blogs.

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Sarge

Leave it to Donkey to defend Bill Ayers, whose organization carried out terrorist attacks.

The libs defend international terrorists all the time, so no surprise they'll come to the defense of a domestic terrorist as well. As long as the target is America.

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Sarge,

Was that a quote without comment? Who said Ayers was "innocent"? Not even Ayers said that.

The government had no case against him--at least none that was prosecutable.

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I'm wondering why everyone is getting so steamed up about this.

After all Obama did say he'd met with known terrorists without conditions.

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skipthesong,

Of course you don't have to embrace Ayers. You don't have to embrace anyone. But the fact remains that Ayers was never convicted of being a terrorist and that is why he is not in prison.

Regard Ayers as a pariah and shun him as much as you like. However, that does not mean that Obama should have done so--especially when Ayers was being recognized for his public service and when he was interested in the same projects that Obama was interested in.

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smithinjapan :Please don't go around asking questions and then mocking said people for posting proof that you call impartial; I mean, after all, you tend to quote blogs."

Good point, smithinjapan. I checked if Bill Ayers has one. Turns out he does. Real spiffy too. Like his office door it features a photo of the loser lefty Che Guevara. Hey - Did you know Bill has an Arabic name? That's right. He calls himself "Abu Zayd." It's all there on Bill's blog, his fear of and disgust with the blogosphere notwithstanding. Lots of red stars on there. Do you reckon they are North Vietnamese or Communist China military paraphenalia? There are even links to sites selling his book Fugitive Days. A glowing review from Edward Said - who was replaced by Obama's pal Rashid Khalidi. Small world, eh? And it turns out Obama reviewed one of Ayers' books, waaaay back in 1997. Gosh, it's like we haven't been getting the real picture, have we?

Fugitive Days. Hmmm, that kind of contradicts what some have posted above, doesn't it? If Bill was innocent, why was he on the lam for so long?

http://www.billayers.org/

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powderfinger,

I don't think wiretaps were illegal in the 70s. I think that back in the '20s the Supreme Court ruled that they were constitutional with appropriate warrants. Laws seem to have varied from state to state.

Anyhow, the government had no prosecutable case. Even had the Feds not erred with their wiretap, you really can't assume that the government's prosecution would have been successful. If the case hinged upon wiretap evidence, it couldn't have been a particularly strong one.

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HelterSkelter is obviously also against American democracy. He supports Sarge in saying I support Ayers because I said we must follow the Constitution of the United States of America which demands due process. I can't figure out why HelterSkelter hates the U.S. Constitution so much. I am proud to be an American and I support the constitution. Next thing you know Sarge and Helter_Skelter will want to burn the constitution in public because they are against due process. Due process was written in the Bill of Rights to protect Americans.

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sailwind said:

After all Obama did say he'd met with known terrorists without conditions.

Who had Obama met with that was a terrorist? When did Obama say he had met with known terrorists?

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After all Obama did say he'd met with known terrorists without conditions.

Oop's typo should be "meet".

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Who had Obama met with that was a terrorist?

Though good point. William Ayres?

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Good point sailwind. When Obama said he'd meet with known terrorists without preconditions, he was speaking from experience. :-D

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I draw the line when people call terrorism "public service"

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Badsey,

You go ahead and draw a line. Since no one has done that you'll probably have to go pretty far to find a place to draw it. I won't expect you back soon.

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Ayers is a scumbag and an unrepentant terrorist. Wasting Walter Annenberg's money is just icing on the cake.

Since Moses (Walter's father - thin and tough as a nail)) Annenberg was one of the toughest guys in Chicago expect Ayers to go down. Blood money runs deep -The Annenberg way.

In the end Ayers gets what he always wanted.

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If You admit to bombing others peoples property in a manner to cause terror and you dont get put in jail because the FBI screw up, your still a terrorist..

Nothing has changed he was a terrorist convicted or not.. He got off because of a legal glitch, and has admitted to the crime over and over because he cant be put on trial twice for the same crime.

Obama knowing him or not isnt going to change anything, but to say they only talked about business is just spreading it thick.. Think about it how many people you work with dont know anything about your personal life or your beliefs...

Ohh well defend him because he didnt get convicted, but I doubt any of you would say if Osama got off on a glitch that he was innocent... Double standards apply I guess..

To me he is a terrorist who still has the belief that any thing goes when getting your view across... Sorry but no one on here will change that view by saying "well he didnt get convicted"

And no matter how you spin your views we as the people have no idea if Ayers and Obama had been talking anything or everything, but either one of them stating they didnt isnt going to prove anything.. Remember most wont self incriminate themselves..

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Only a court can determine if you broke the law. Whether a person is a murderer may be determined by definition. But if you call someone a murderer who has been found not guilty you may face a civil suit and lose. Throwing a bunch of words around instead of speaking of his legal status was something I had no interest in. You can't say a person broke the law without a conviction. When a cop says someone broke the law and that person receives a trial and is found not guilty the cop cannot say that person broke the law. Breaking the law is not being accused of violating a statute. Breaking the law is not being indicted by a Grand Jury. Due process is the law of the land. The law of the land. The law.

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Japanese people don't understand the Ayers' flip-flop:

Ayers: I am a terrorist, but I am not. Well what are you then?

So what does this mean for Obama-sama then?

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statue is suppose to be statute (from Websters) sorry typo..

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This Ayers guy has broken almost every law under the Patroit Act. If fact most Taliban being held in Cuba would probably be afraid of him.

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Three questions:

Who has done more wrong in the world, William Ayers or the taliban?

Who has done more wrong in the world, William Ayers or the house of saud?

Why weren't the people howling at the moon about Obama's associations calling for bush's head since he has an even closer relationship to the house of saud than Obama has or had with Ayers and invited the taliban to Texas?

Hypocrites.

Taka

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This Ayers guy has broken almost every law under the Patroit Act

This Ayers guy was active in the 60s and 70s, the Patriot Act wasn't enacted until 2001. He'd have had a hard job breaking it without a time machine.

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Taka313 - "the taliban... the house of saud... bush"

Wrong thread. This one's about the "ex"-radical Bill Ayers and his former associate President-elect Obama.

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This Ayers guy has broken almost every law under the Patroit Act. In fact most Taliban being held in Cuba would probably be afraid of him.

Some would say that is more of an indictment of the Patriot Act and the overwhelming amount of innocent people imprisoned in Gitmo wrongfully than of William Ayers.

Taka

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Ayers is not a terrorist.

Terrorists practice terrorism. Ayers does not.

Say if you want that Ayers was a terrorist, that he did practice terrorism. But to persist in claiming that he is a terrorist is a claim that borders on insanity.

It is also inaccurate to say that he got off because of a legal glitch. He may not have been prosecuted because of the legal glitch, but one cannot assume that the prosecution would have been successful without it.

Weeks after Palin discredited herself by trying to claim that "Obama pals around with terrorists" people still discredit themselves with similar statements.

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Obama's maid: Senator, Bill Ayers is on the phone for you.

Obama: Dang! Tell him to call back.

Obama's maid: Any time frame, Senator?

Obama: Yes. January. 2012.

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Ayers: Embassador for terrorism --> People can understand that.

Patroit Act : Retroactive

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Taka

Who has done more wrong in the world, William Ayers or the taliban?

Who has done more wrong in the world, William Ayers or the house of saud?

Why weren't the people howling at the moon about Obama's associations calling for bush's head since he has an even closer relationship to the house of saud than Obama has or had with Ayers and invited the taliban to Texas?

Your Answers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

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Ambassador-sp

Alright then. How can someone (Ayers) who calls himself a terrorist not be a terrorist?

-that's a flip-flop. He said he is, but now he isn't.

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Thans Sail.

So...the answer is, The house of saud and the taliban have done more bad in the world than William Ayers ever has and bush's ties to both are equally or closer than that of Ayers and Obama.

Wow. You'd think that would warrant some outrage from the right.

So...yes, thank you for clearing that up.

Taka

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Anyway

Before we all get bent out of shape. Obama and Ayres had a relationship. He benefited and Ayres benefited. What is the problem here?

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skipthesong said:

I don't think anyone is really supporting Ayers.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't approve of violence. If Ayres admitted to acts of violence and he committed them then I condemn those acts. I have not read his words. I was not there. I doubt any one posting on this thread was there. If someone saw news that said he admitted to it or I should say if it was widely reported then I accept that. Regardless I like to take the opportunity to show that some people just can't get their facts straight. A few people want to use conjecture as fact. Others ignore a legal status and try to represent what they consider facts as legal facts.

Obama distanced himself from Ayers and Ayers distanced himself from Obama. Now the NeoCons and Arch Conservatives on this site need to distance themselves from the pack of lies perpetrated by other NeoCons and Arch Conservatives that are generators of the rumor mills across America that have claimed Obama did everything but have sex with Ayers.

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Ayers a terrorist: True -belonged to a group labeled by the FBI as a "terrorist group" -Ayers himself admitted to belonging to said group -did all sorts of mischief (bombmaking, selling bombs, placement of said bombs, threats against most people etc..etc)

Ayers not a terrorist: He is a Pal of President-Elect Obama.

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Taka313

Who has done more wrong in the world, William Ayers or the taliban?

Geez. Aren't you even slightly embarrassed to pose such an argument?

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helter,

When you look at my argument in the proper context, instead of only looking at a snippet, I don't really think I am the one who should be embarrassed.

When I asked that question, it was for people to compare and contrast. Obviously the taliban have done more bad in the world. Yet, in playing the "guilt by association game" (GBAG), "the right" starts and stops with William Ayers. Which leads to my third question earlier, considering bush invited members of of the taliban to Texas, how could anyone who supports bush feel justified in playing the GBAG game with Obama's relationship with Ayers?

I'm not saying you can't play the GBAG regarding Obama's relationship with Ayers, if you feel it's relevant, knock yourself out. But to me, and I don't think I am alone in this; anyone who does, but doesn't or didn't regarding bush's relationship with the taliban, does so with a well-earned hypocrite moniker.

Taka

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I really don't understand what some of this thread is about. Why are people talking about the Taliban and Texas?

The Ayers - Obama nexus is Chicago, though some people say that the two met while Obama was at Columbia, since Ayers was living in New York then.

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powerderfinger

I really don't understand what some of this thread is about.

This thread can be summed up as follows: The libs have never met an enemy of America they didn't like.

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Sezwho2 It is also inaccurate to say that he got off because of a legal glitch. He may not have been prosecuted because of the legal glitch, but one cannot assume that the prosecution would have been successful without it.

It goes the other way too, one cannot assume he would of been found not guilty.it is inaccurate to justify his actions due to the failure of the court to prosecute him.

As far as practicing "or being" in reference to being a terrorist, that is just using the word terrorist in the way you want... He still states his actions had been just and if he had to do it all again he would still bomb the buildings and other targets they bombed , so its hard to say he isnt still practicing when he is still believing his actions are just,teaching others that bombing buildings is a just and sound way to protest is still practicing...

Tka313 please show me where the members of the house of saud attacked american civilians? Do you mean people from that country attacked civilians? What is Bush's relationship to the taliban? Has he had them over for dinner? Please explain this statement..

Good Donkey he has said those words in his many books and his blog, he has said those words on national tv and in news.. He has said those words again and again..

Obama and Ayers releationship doesnt matter in respect to Obamas views, who cares if they even slept together, the point is Ayers isnt the angel that some on here try to paint, he isnt an ex terrorist, he is still pushing his violence based way of getting a point across, he is still stating he would do it all again.. The fact Obama and Ayers knows each other is not shocking, the fact they are both downplaying the fact is shocking.. Ayers is very active in the political scene in Chicago and all most all political persons in that area know him on a personal level of some sort... Obama is just lying to make that assosiation less because he is a political person who came under fire for his assosiation to a terrorist (active in kilin and bombing or not)

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"Ex-radical Ayers distances himself from Obama"

Freudian slip?

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nippon5,

The house of saud has long supported wahhabism. The bush's are very close to the rulers of the house of saud.

As for the taliban, bush met said ramatullah hashemi from the taliban foreign ministry on March 19, 2001.

Sure, the meeting was to discuss humanitarian issues and the wars on drugs and terrorism. But...in the GBAG, intent does not matter. What matters is the association.

I don't know of anyone who has claimed that Obama was working with Ayers to promote terrorism, but...the GBAG leads us to believe that is the case.

So...I asked earlier, why the same rules aren't applied to bush that are applied to Obama in this regard.

Hope that clears things up.

Taka

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I understand your point, even though its a far out there one:).. But Ayers-Obama connection isnt one leader to another, nor is it only based on a working relationship. I personally dont consider Obama a terrorist due to his assosiation with Ayers the terrorist, but I do not like the misinformation they have used to try to distance Obama from Ayers..

Even in this article Ayers lies about it....

In fact, Ayers said he didn’t even know Obama when he hosted the event at his home in the Chicago neighborhood where the two live. Ayers added that he agreed to have the meet-the-candidate event after a state senator asked him to.

This would be opposite of what Obama and Ayers have written in the past in their books... Since Obama served with Ayers on the Boards before this party and they knew each other from then..

See Obama-Ayers timeline...

http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/obamaayers-timeline/

So how do we believe Ayers or Obama when they make false statements so easy to disprove... Have you ever been on a board and not meet the other members in a meeting? Ive been on tons of them and first thing we always do is introduce each other..

So My point is someone is lying to try to lesson the assosiation of the two together, which is like your example where you try to increase the Bush-taliban connection.... Both are using misinformation and lies to achieve its goal....

But I agree 100% that Obama isnt a terrorist...

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Ex-radical???

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Nippon,

I've also been at several board meetings (unfortunately, they are a very large part of my new job) and you are correct, we normally introduce ourselves.

Never once have I heard someone introduce themself and mention anything even remotely negative.

"Hi, I'm Bob, I'm here representing ____ company as their head of corporate communications; and I also have a felony rap sheet" has never come out. People tend to minimize the negatives and push the positives in those things, know what I mean.

And thank you for understanding where I was going with my argument. I find it's silly to claim bush has ties to terrorism because he once met with a taliban official but...I find it equally as silly to say that Obama has any radical views stemming from his meetings with William Ayers.

I also think that if you are a bush supporter, it's a hypocritical argument to make.

Taka

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So Taka you see why Ayers making the statment..(below) shows he is lying about something?

In fact, Ayers said he didn’t even know Obama when he hosted the event at his home in the Chicago neighborhood where the two live. Ayers added that he agreed to have the meet-the-candidate event after a state senator asked him to.

It would be better for both of them if they said "hell yea we know each other, we served on few boards together, our wives talked before, our children talked before, we have talked shop and personal stuff,but we have different views on what is the right way to get things done."

I would feel so much better if they kept it honest instead of stepping on each others words and straight out lying about it...

Yea its hard to live in a glass house and throw rocks..

But I also understand the "rights" view about Ayers and Obama lying to cover up an innocent relationship..

Better to be open and tell the truth and let the cards fall then create a reason for people to wonder about the issue..

Most Political arguements lead to being hypocritical..:)

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Now that the election is over, the media suddenly find time to talk to him.

Before, they were all too busy digging up dirt on Joe the Plumber.

Amazing bunch of party hacks posing as journalists.

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Most Political arguements lead to being hypocritical..:)

Couldn't agree more.

Taka

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"the college professor disputed the contention that in the new afterword of a paperback edition of his 2001 memoir “Fugitive Days,”

Ayers' is a prolific author; his communist manifesto, "Prairie Fire" (dedicated to Sirhan Sirhan, the man who killed Bobby Kennedy), is now available in PDF form, for free.

http://www.zombietime.com/prairie_fire/

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Gotta love it, whne Bill Ayers was asked why nobody tried to link his wife, Bernardine Dohrn, to Obama since she was also present at virtually all their meetings, he suggests "sexism."

He's right, but not in the usual sense. She was better known, having been on the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted List." In addition, there was her short-skirt radical chic attire. But that was then; to imply Obama had been palling around with her opened the door to a sexual relationship which, given the age difference, would have struck many as implausible.

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We've had meet-the-candidate gatherings in my community, too, and it's as Ayers said - you don't know the candidates personally. You find a list of everyone running for office, with their home phone numbers, and start calling and inviting. The evening is so chaotic with swarms of people that, when it's you putting on the event, you might only talk with the candidate(s) if they seek you out to shake your hand and say thanks. Michelle Obama also cleared up this issue by saying that you can't be involved in education in Chicago without knowing William Ayers. Nuff said.

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