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U.S., allies dissatisfied with WHO-backed COVID origins report

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By Shaun Tandon, Nina Larson and Robin Millard

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I'm confused, which group of experts is the authoritative truth and which side is "dangerous misinformation"

9 ( +16 / -7 )

The US and its lapdogs never missing an opportunity to attack China and keep their anti-China propaganda campaign running.....

-17 ( +13 / -30 )

U.S., allies dissatisfied with WHO-backed COVID origins report

Color me shocked.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

One thing for sure, China will never reveal or admit the truth.

21 ( +28 / -7 )

Mr KiplingToday 07:04 am JST

The US and its lapdogs never missing an opportunity to attack China and keep their anti-China propaganda campaign running.....

China and it's lapdogs never miss an oportunity to attack the US and it's allies for anything they say or believe if it does not show China as a shining light.

14 ( +23 / -9 )

I'm confused, which group of experts is the authoritative truth and which side is "dangerous misinformation"

That is easy, the ones that can sustain their conclusions with data are justified, those that conclude things without (or even in spite of) data not.

It has been over 10 years that the WHO was defanged by the pressure of the same countries that now criticize it for not being powerful enough to impose itself over China, what else did those countries expect would happen? They played themselves into debilitating the WHO for economic reasons without ever stopping to think from where it was more likely the next pandemic would come.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

For those that are a bit unaware, Dr. Ghebreyesus has been in the back pocket of the CCP and Xi for a long time. Yo may not trust the sources, but open your eyes a bit and look beyond the MSM rhetoric.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-helped-put-man-charge-world-health-organization%E2%80%94-it-paying-136002

The CCP has done a great deal to suppress information concerning the source of this virus. And they have not been forthcoming.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

Just another example of the US's loss of influence throughout the world under the four years of Trump...

He "ran away" from the WHO, and gifted the organization to China, just like he did in Syria, giving it to Russia...

Once again, a Democratic administration will have to work hard to recover US prominence and leadership in world organizations...

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

If Amirouche Hammar was infected in France between 14 and 22 December, possibly via his wife*, then Covid was in Europe in the first weeks of December. They may need to push back the timeline they are researching in China and consider that it may have been circulating asymptomatically for some time before those with symptoms were recognised. Checks of samples can also be made in other countries for an earlier 'patient zero'.

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I'm in the market for a new pancake spatula from the dollar store... or at least I was! Boycott China!

2 ( +7 / -5 )

I'm confused, which group of experts is the authoritative truth and which side is "dangerous misinformation"

Just the use of the word 'authoritative' shows your passive aggressive mentality and sarcasm toward what is truth and not.

Misinformation is actually not dangerous to those who critical think...gather information with an open mind without narrative and bias...and make a decision based on wanting to find and believe the facts. Finding the cause of COVID is based on wanting information with transparency.

Those who choose to believe the misinformation are the one's who are dangerous because they want to and do believe lies as an alternative fact. They cherry pick information and build narrative and it gets worse from there, as they influence the less than smart to believe the lies.

Republicans and people who do this are just wrong, and not really sure how they continue to live with the mentality their world of lies is good to go. I guess they hate humanity in general because truth and honesty is a staple of social existence, and living misinformation is juvenile and ignorance is their go to move.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

They may need to push back the timeline they are researching in China and consider that it may have been circulating asymptomatically for some time before those with symptoms were recognised.

This is well know even from last year. The pattern of spreading point to the first human cases to be around October (if not earlier), no expert believes the Wuhan market was the place with the first cases, only the first time it was obvious enough to get noticed. By that time the infection was already in more than one Chinese province.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210318185328.htm

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"... the virus probably came from bats and jumped to humans from another animal..."

Came from bats, probably true. Jumped to humans possibly in a laboratory where research was in fact being conducted in Wuhan a short distance from the wet market. And the spread probably occurred months before the outbreak was officially recognized.

CCP = liars.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It's fun to read all the comments from the expert virologists here on this site make definitive pronouncements without a lick of evidence to support his or her claims.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It’s called psych-ops. But hey, on this site, don’t like China.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Since people are discussing the timeline, from:

https://ge.usembassy.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/

"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses."

1 ( +4 / -3 )

China’s mouthpiece. Only the most gullible would trust such an organization.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses."

This of course help proving that the "laboratory escape" theory is completely unbelievable.

If this outbreak was supposed to be of COVID-19 (and not any of the multiple other respiratory infections with exactly the same symptoms) it would make it impossible that the confirmed human cases in less populated areas could be found before huge outbreaks would happen all over Wuhan first. After all "several" people were infected, meaning that at this point the virus spreads easily from human to human.

So, since these early outbreaks (that should be as evident as the Wuhan Market one) did not happen then this theory can be proved false.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Came from bats, probably true. Jumped to humans possibly in a laboratory where research was in fact being conducted in Wuhan a short distance from the wet market.

The evidence contradicts your explanation, the first human cases were not in Wuhan, and specially not in the market outbreak. You are confused between the first human cases and the first identified human cases, they are not the same.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

I personally believe the SARS-CoV-2 started from humans eating animals on the border of Laos, Vietnam and China.

However, Covid19 was reordered in Italy and French sewer water tests in September 2019. The virus started spreading in Wuhan after the World Military Games in November 2019.

WEF had a plan for the virus “new reset” presented in November 2019.

i am so confused...

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

This result is predictable in spite of the the announcement of the report was delayed for a few weeks

The truth was shrouded in darkness

It having said that samples were hushed up already as of early 2020 last year.

I wish the democratic counties ally and make the economy of totalitarian counties weaken by “soft power”

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Republicans and people who do this are just wrong,

I really don't see the need or relevance to draw political battle lines here.

Your point could have easily been made with just "People who do this..."

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The evidence contradicts your explanation, the first human cases were not in Wuhan, and specially not in the market outbreak. You are confused between the first human cases and the first identified human cases, they are not the same.

You're basing all of this on information provided by the CCP. There is no reason to automatically accept it as fact.

When the outbreak started the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with bat corona viruses and other viruses. Why would they do that? And why would anyone trust anything the WIV of the CCP tell us?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

However, Covid19 was reordered in Italy and French sewer water tests in September 2019. The virus started spreading in Wuhan after the World Military Games in November 2019.

Those results are widely expected to be false, the researchers that reported them never determined a limit of detection for their protocol, so their results are not reliable (nor believable).

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@virus.

They are facts. Not rumors. Facts.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

You're basing all of this on information provided by the CCP. There is no reason to automatically accept it as fact.

False, read the article you are trying to criticize, genomic analysis of virus strains to identify their evolutionary age is a well characterized fiel with high predictive value and that depends on zero information from China, isolated from all over the world are enough to do it and prove what every epidemiologist worth its salt knew from the beginning, an outbreak on a populous city was not the place of the first human cases, just the place where the outbreak can easily be found.

When the outbreak started the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with bat corona viruses and other viruses.

From all the computers in the world? because that is what would be necessary since any information being open at least once is immediately downloaded by hundreds of researchers in every country, specially for Chinese data that can become inaccesible as it has happened before.

So, any proof this world wide hacking event took place? or we are just supposed to believe you?

It is of course irrelevant any way, the determination of the time the virus has been propagating in humans do not depend in any way from any data from the WIV.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The saddest thing here is trying to politicise this more than it already is.

We know it originated in China, it is highly possible China exasperated the situation by trying to hide it.

But it was not laboratory made and starting these rumours may backfire.

Due to climate change scientists are discovering viruses and bacteria that long ago disappeared.

These have been frozen in the permafrost of the Arctic and Antarctic now thawing out.

So the USA, Canada, Russia, Greenland, etc.. may just be the next source of some type of outbreak.

What then, will the world blame these countries will we start rumours the USA, Russia, Canada, etc.. created them in laboratories?

Anthrax occured naturally deep in the earth brought up by rodents like prairie dogs, Russia in the Siberian regions where the worst of the permafrost thawing is happening has already reported Anthrax like spores not previously known.

So beware pointing a finger because when you do you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Like we really need a report from WHO to confirm what happened?

Helen Keller (she was deaf, dumb, and blind) knows the CCP released it and then covered it up for months. Their own scientists (who have "disappeared") confirmed it.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

I do not think there is a single person outside China who is satisfied with WTO report!

7 ( +9 / -2 )

World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus had earlier made a similar criticism, saying the international team he dispatched to Wuhan had found it difficult to get raw data during the mission.

If even China's shill Tedros is criticizing the access China gave, this problem must be serious. Yet a self-appointed expert on this forum continues to shy away from China's chief responsibility for this pandemic, at the very least refusing to entertain the possibility that the virus could have come from the lab, even accidentally. Because, ya, know, the science.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

et a self-appointed expert on this forum continues to shy away from China's chief responsibility for this pandemic, at the very least refusing to entertain the possibility that the virus could have come from the lab, even accidentally. Because, ya, know, the science.

That makes absolutely no sense.

If someone wants you to believe that the virus comes from an alien unicorn that visited China and spread the disease, the only two options are believing this is true or exculpating China?

What you can't understand is that there is nothing wrong with accepting that the CCP terribly mismanaged the beginning of the pandemic and has a huge responsibility to take from this, but at the same time the virus has no realistic chance to come from the laboratory according to the best available scientific evidence that points clearly to a natural origin.

You mixing both things as if they were the same makes the work of the CCP much easier, since the lab escape conspiracy can easily be proven false and you make it the center of the criticism then China can show the scientific evidence of the natural origin that scientists around the world have produced and say "see it is all lies". In reality only the lab conspiracy is the one that is mistaken, so you should be able to accept that and focus on the actual problems for which China has to be held responsible, they cannot squirm out of those as easily.

Also, can you quote this supposed "self-appointment"? Reading the comments I have never seen anybody writing that they are experts that you should trust. Maybe you are confused with other sites?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

virusrexToday  11:32 am JST

What makes you think I was talking about you?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I do not think there is a single person outside China who is satisfied with WTO report!

So...go beat on an Asian?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

What does Fauci say on this? He is the only trustworthy source of scientific information on this topic.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

What does Fauci say on this? He is the only trustworthy source of scientific information on this topic.

Mostly, that science will decide.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/fauci-idea-covid-19-originated-lab-just-another-theory

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"The experts judged it "extremely unlikely" that the virus was grown in a lab, and were also unimpressed by Beijing's theory that the virus did not originate in China at all but was imported in frozen food."

Well, my dog and I have discussed this issue just today and to tell you the truth, my dog believes China on the frozen food thing, but me? Well, I just don't trust anything that comes out of China at all due to their history of false news and actions that promote negative life experiences for the rest of the world.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Lab that studies and researches coronaviruses is about 30 km from the place where coronavirus was first discovered...

Coronavirus brought on frozen food...

Even a fifth grader would not believe to the second statement...

7 ( +10 / -3 )

What does Fauci say on this? He is the only trustworthy source of scientific information on this topic.

Funny! But seriously, on this topic he could not provide an unbiased opinion since he's been involved in the funding of the coronavirus research at the WIV.

One expert we could listen to is the former CDC director Redfield, who very recently stated:

"That's not implying any intentionality, it's my opinion. But I am a virologist, I have spent my life in virology.

"I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human, and at that moment in time, the virus that came to the human became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission. Normally when a pathogen goes from a zoonotic to human, it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. I just don't think this makes biological sense."

"Let's just say I have coronavirus that I'm working on. Most of us in the lab, we're trying to grow virus. We try to help make it grow better and better and better and better and better and better, so we can do experiments and figure out about it. That's the way I put it together."

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Lab that studies and researches coronaviruses is about 30 km from the place where coronavirus was first discovered...

The important part is that that place was NOT where the first human cases happened, only where they were very apparent, because Wuhan city is the most populous place on that province, notable for the sheer number of new isolates reported every year.

One expert we could listen to is the former CDC director Redfield,

If only he could base his opinion on scientific data, but he doesn't, which means that he disqualify himself by expressing an opinion without basis and against the available evidence. Its like a lawyer that begins his deposition saying "It is illegal for me to tell you this but..."

Conspiracy fans love to disregard data and instead try to latch their theories on names, that is invalid. And the main reason why consulting the the official statement of whole professional organizations is much better than for single individuals, it is much less likely that a whole organization makes the mistake of promoting subjective information as individuals frequently do

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Love the Robert Redfield stuff.

A man that is an evangelical Christian that proposed testing all Americans for HIV and isolating them in the same way that was once done to those with Hansen's disease (leprosy).

A man whose approach to HIV was to use "Christian values" and full abstinence along with this forced confinement.

A mad that so poorly handle the Covid-19 problem from day one is now looking for anyway to cover-up his failure.

One problem with his lad theory or should I say 3 problems, Ebola, SARS 1, MERS.

Yeah I am surely ready to take this guy's word on things.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

WHO . . . Made in China.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Robert Redfield quotes:

"That's not implying any intentionality, it's my opinion. But I am a virologist, I have spent my life in virology.

"I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human, and at that moment in time, the virus that came to the human became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission......

Now for a few more doozies from this man:

: ”It is time to reject the temptation of denial of the AIDS/HIV crisis; to reject false prophets who preach the quick-fix strategies of condoms and free needles; to reject those who preach prejudice; and to reject those who try to replace God as judge. The time has come for the Christian community—members and leaders alike—to confront the epidemic.”

This in his proposal to test all Americans and force isolate people with HIV.

He then promoted a debunked HIV vaccine, even after he admitted that it was "flawed" meaning it didn't work.

Yep this is the guy we should be listening to, NOT!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Trust China at your own risk. I have warned you.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Maybe truth is not the fitting category here. Also we won’t be told it. But we can assign probabilities to the different stories. So we have for example one probability for the viruses coming from the bats in far away mountains ,by some missing-link animals nobody can name, to the city center of Wuhan. And we have another probability for the virus taken from the bats into that labs very near to the market in Wuhan. Now guess what story I and other people would assign a quite higher probability to.... unbelievable, that there are still any doubts about what happened.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Trust China at your own risk. I have warned you.

Ok that is not unreasonable, it hasn't really been open about things.

But in the present political climate the same can be said about the USA, a country that half the population and politicians reject science and believe it is somehow anointed by some god!

Both are equally not trustworthy for different reasons.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

unbelievable, that there are still any doubts about what happened.

Yes it is I guess Ebola, SARS 1, MERS, etc.. don't ring any bells, all came from animal to human transmission.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So we have for example one probability for the viruses coming from the bats in far away mountains ,by some missing-link animals nobody can name, to the city center of Wuhan.

But why do you need that possibility? it is already well know that the virus came first to other more rural areas weeks or months before people brought it to Wuhan. There is no need to explain the first human cases happening in the big city, mostly because they did not.

What makes you think I was talking about you?

I am not.

*"Reading the comments I have never seen anybody writing that they are experts that you should trust."*

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Pro-Trump supporters blaming a Chinese lab for the virus...

I guess they've given up on that far-right fact-based theory that it was the 5G network towers that cause COVID...

Time to take off the tin-foil-lined MAGA hats....

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Pro-Trump supporters blaming a Chinese lab for the virus...

...and pro-Biden supporters believing China can do no wrong...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

WHO officials are richer for a few millions on their bank account. As a ordinary person , I'm not satisfied at all. They are hiding something.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

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