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FBI: California shooting investigated as act of terrorism

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By AMANDA LEE MYERS and TAMI ABDOLLAH

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He looks like a proper brainwashed moronic psycho

5 ( +10 / -5 )

I called "terrorism" from the outset. Feel free to praise me for my insight.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Great insight, Jeff !

3 ( +8 / -5 )

It disturbs me how many people online are upset that the government didn't label this a terrorist attack from the outset. As though it's utterly unacceptable for authorities to do research and make informed statements backed up by evidence - they have to just blindly guess and whoever in the public had the same uninformed guess can then feel like they're on the winning team.

No wonder so many people in public discourse don't understand the scientific process. When scoring Internet points and feeling right is more important than being informed and acting based on evidence, can a society ever be expected to make good decisions?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Are the reports of them having a baby true? If so, I hope it gets sent to live with a nice, loving, christian family.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

That was a No brainer. Anyone that puts politics aside can see this incident for what it was and that it was a terrorist act. As to what the motive was remains to be seen.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

The NRA gave him the guns, the GOP Shia-Tea Senate just green lighted more guns for "no-fly" terrorists and the littlest gun nuts are clutching bang-bang hoping nobody does anything.

Typical NRA tactics. Threaten law makers, provide justification for paranoia and roll out the red carpet for unregulated gun sales. Neat business model.

Get ready America. The Republicans are ready to sell as many guns to no-fly and watch-list threats as possible. Free market meets NRA dictatorship. How many die next time?

"Authorities said that the couple sprayed as many as 75 rounds into the room before fleeing and had more than 1,600 rounds left when they were killed."

Maybe it won't be a white Christmas for America after all. Thank the NRA, the protectors of American Freedom.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

So I'm guessing there are probably people he was in contact with and those people are now suspected terrorists. And thanks to a recent vote in the Senate those suspected terrorists will not be prohibited from buying guns.

Because we gotta be safe.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

The NRA gave him the guns, the GOP Shia-Tea Senate just green lighted more guns for "no-fly" terrorists and the littlest gun nuts are clutching bang-bang hoping nobody does anything.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Farook and his wife were the shooters, they took it upon themselves to kill these people, therefore, they are the responsible individuals that perpetrated this crime. All that other nonsense liberals are TRYING to spew is falling on deaf ears.

Typical NRA tactics. Threaten law makers, provide justification for paranoia and roll out the red carpet for unregulated gun sales. Neat business model.

So you are trying to say, the FBI forced the media to tell everyone that this was a terrorist attack. They have that kind of power???

Get ready America. The Republicans are ready to sell as many guns to no-fly and watch-list threats as possible.

We already have 20 million registered users and at this point, we can't depend on this derelict president to do anything, people should go out and buy more firearms.

Free market meets NRA dictatorship. How many die next time?

The dictatorship stems from liberals that try and try in vain to give misinformation about firearms and love to push and peddle guns as the main issue as though people are stupid and they can see what and who is responsible for this and those people are laying in a morgue now.

Because we gotta be safe.

Pretty much.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

At the urging of the NRA, the Republican controlled Senate voted Thursday to reject a measure to prevent suspected terrorists from buying guns, including assault weapons. All Republicans but one—Senator Kirk of Illinois—voted down a Democratic amendment to prevent Americans suspected of being terrorists from buying guns. While they were at it, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) tried to loosen restrictions on concealed weapons

source: http://www.examiner.com/article/republicans-vote-to-allow-terror-suspects-to-buy-guns-kill-planned-parenthood

Back when the GOP Shia-Tea wasn't sponsoring the slaughter of Americans by preventing suspected terrorists from buying guns, including assault weapons, the chant was . . ."The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching,"

Now, with the NRA at the helm of the GOP Shia-Tea, "The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching," hardly matters any more.

The NRA has dictated the slaughter of Americans at the hands of known terrorists and the littlest gun nuts are cheering the next slaughter.

USA! USA! USA! There's no business like the slaughter business. The NRA/GOP knows killing more Americans in the next year is within reach of any known terrorist with a credit card.

Happy 2016! The NRA has you in its sites America, and the GOP Shia-Tea in its pocket.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

The two U.S. officials were not authorized to discuss the case publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity. ****

Double deniability (I think I just created a new phrase)

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Back when the GOP Shia-Tea wasn't sponsoring the slaughter of Americans by preventing suspected terrorists from buying guns, including assault weapons, the chant was . . ."The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching,"

Oh, please....

Now, with the NRA at the helm of the GOP Shia-Tea, "The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching, The whole world is watching," hardly matters any more.

Who cares what the world thinks. We are not them, they are not us. How's it came to this? You have president that will not say or define radical Islam, the man has completely lost his mind. He wants to think we are all stupid and says the nuttiest things to the point where when he speaks, he stutters because he knows himself what he's says is pure BS. The people are fed up with this guy and are just waiting for the clock to run out on this guy.

The NRA has dictated the slaughter of Americans at the hands of known terrorists and the littlest gun nuts are cheering the next slaughter.

No, the liberals have made Americans vulnerable by trying to disarm law-abiding citizens and bullying Americans to take in Muslim refugees knowing that there is a high and possible threat to some degree that we would be setting ourselves up for any future attack by allowing possible sleeper cells into the country. But the racist Democrats could care less, it's all about votes for them in the end.

USA! USA! USA! There's no business like the slaughter business.

So then why would the liberals try to force feed us these refugees, disarm us, not closing our borders, allowing anyone to come in. Liberals are the ones that are slowing dragging Americans tour slaughter house.

The NRA/GOP knows killing more Americans in the next year is within reach of any known terrorist with a credit card.

No, the president did that when he put his stupid climate change ahead of keeping Americans safe. He would rather play roulette give a sleepy and garrulous speech on yellow sand in China over what and how he can protect the country.

Happy 2016! The NRA has you in its sites America, and the GOP Shia-Tea in its pocket.

No, but they do have their own personal safety in their pockets, thank god for that.

-8 ( +8 / -16 )

So, was the murder from a few days ago (keywords: white, Christian) labelled a terrorist attack too?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I called "terrorism" from the outset. Feel free to praise me for my insight.

パチパチ。 I predicted that, if the culprits had been white, it would be as forgotten as the Planned Parenthood shooting a few days ago (remember that?), but if not, all hell would break loose. Do I get a パチパチ?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

FBI: California shooting investigated as act of terrorism

Which presumably releases budget, resources and inter-agency collaboration to properly investigate this massacre. The Feds' initial analysis:

so far, there is no indication that these killers are part of an organized larger group FBI Director James Comey

https://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog

is corroborated by the bad guys:

The Islamic State-affiliated news agency Aamaq said Friday the two shooters were “supporters” of the group, but it stopped short of claiming responsibility for the attack.

Faux News squeaks:

After San Bernardino: How political correctness could get us all killed

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/12/04/after-san-bernardino-how-political-correctness-could-get-us-all-killed.html?intcmp=hpbt1

...conveniently ignoring the bigotry Farook faced in his workplace:

Two weeks ago, Farook and one of the co-workers he killed, 52-year-old Nicholas Thalasinos, had a heated conversation about Islam, according to Kuuleme Stephens, a friend of the victim.

Stephens said she happened to call Thalasinos while he was talking with Farook at work. She said Thalasinos told her Farook “doesn’t agree that Islam is not a peaceful religion.”

http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/attackers-in-california-shooting-had-thousands-of-bullets#comment_2104166

Was Farook radicalised by external agents, or by a culture that is rabidly islamophobic?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

So, was the murder from a few days ago (keywords: white, Christian) labelled a terrorist attack too?

It was. OF course that was a terrorist act as well. No, dispute about that.

パチパチ。 I predicted that, if the culprits had been white, it would be as forgotten as the Planned Parenthood shooting a few days ago (remember that?), but if not, all hell would break loose. Do I get a パチパチ?

Seriously, NO ONE forgot about that. It's just not in the front page now, but it's still there.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Anyone who thinks that this is anything other than jihad is a moron, the same kind of person who would call the Ft Hood shooting "workplace violence."

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Of course it was terrorism (good call, JeffLee!). One day an alien will from Planet Sane will visit the USA and say, "Whatta thinking? Make a list of all the recent terrorist acts in your country and see who's committing most of them. You will notice a pattern. You may not be at war with radical Islam but it is at war with you."

@KCJapan. Try decaff. It may be impossible for you believe this as you seem to be driven by ideology as much if not more than by fact but the majority of gun owners both in America and other countries (Canada also has a ton of guns but not nearly as much violence which would sugges to an objective person that something more than guns is causing the violence) have guns and don't turn them on each other. Another fact that you will likley have trouble getting your mind around will be that places with the strictest gun control laws are the ones with the highest gun violence.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

The whole world is watching. More importantly, the American public has a clear view of the NRA/GOP.

The dead ranged in age from 26 to 60. Among the 21 injured were two police officers hurt during the manhunt, authorities said. Two of the wounded remained in critical condition Thursday.

At the urging of the NRA, the Republican controlled Senate voted Thursday to reject a measure to prevent suspected terrorists from buying guns, including assault weapons.

source: http://www.examiner.com/article/republicans-vote-to-allow-terror-suspects-to-buy-guns-kill-planned-parenthood

Another fact that you will likley have trouble getting your mind around will be that places with the strictest gun control laws are the ones with the highest gun violence. - comments

The Americans aren't as completely stupid as the littlest gun nuts would believe and the NRA pays to enforce in the U.S. Congress.

So, play your games, cry baby your bang-bang and keep an accurate death toll. The Year of Gun Violence 2016 has been created by the NRA/GOP.

Answer to the parents of the dead when the NRA/GOP throws the bodies on the front porch of the world's newspapers.

Oh, wait, the cry babies are calling Momma NRA to ask what to say to the single anguished posts on JT. Read the bloody article again.

"Authorities said that the couple sprayed as many as 75 rounds into the room before fleeing and had more than 1,600 rounds left when they were killed."

The NRA/GOP just gave the no-fly / watch list a green light to buy as many guns as they want. Thursday, December 3, 2015.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@KCJapan. Try decaff. It may be impossible for you believe this as you seem to be driven by ideology as much if not more than by fact but the majority of gun owners both in America and other countries (Canada also has a ton of guns but not nearly as much violence which would sugges to an objective person that something more than guns is causing the violence) have guns and don't turn them on each other. Another fact that you will likley have trouble getting your mind around will be that places with the strictest gun control laws are the ones with the highest gun violence.

Kc, views everything from a liberal ONLY good victimization and conservative, ONLY evil, that's pretty much it. One sided, skewed, misguided.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

"Kc, views everything from a liberal ONLY good victimization and conservative, ONLY evil, that's pretty much it. One sided, skewed, misguided"

Balance is important, Bass. I agree. Your mails should be a lesson to all.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Balance is important, Bass. I agree.

And I thank you for that! It's always nice to know when you are right.

The Americans aren't as completely stupid as the littlest gun nuts would believe and the NRA pays to enforce in the U.S. Congress.

I don't know about that, they voted for Obama twice.......but we do live in hope, right?

So, play your games, cry baby your bang-bang and keep an accurate death toll. The Year of Gun Violence 2016 has been created by the NRA/GOP

Good! Now if only you would keep track of the national dept and the sale of baby parts or how about the murder rate of black on black crime that has taken 2,700 lives in Chicago alone are you as equally keeping track of that as well? How about the national debt?

Answer to the parents of the dead when the NRA/GOP throws the bodies on the front porch of the world's newspapers.

What about the 20 million registered gun owners? They don't seemed by that liberal rhetoric.

Kc, you really do need to relax. Lol

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

I called "terrorism" from the outset. Feel free to praise me for my insight.

Get a dog

I guessing we might hear about how the FBI sold the guns and ammo to an acquaintance or fellow muslim. Or maybe that the NSA knew about them. It's not easy staying off the radar and obtain such a large quantity of guns-n-ammo.

Or maybe we won't hear about it as it feeds the fear and the votes to the poor clowns who still think our adventures in the Middle East are about terrorism, and not oil and gas hegemony.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Bass We already have 20 million registered users and at this point

Please provide a link to verify this. Assuming your info is correct, it's good to know that some have registered their guns. How about the other however many dozens of millions who have not registered their guns? The link, assuming you have one, should be an actual source, not a response saying Obama can be blamed for every problem ever. As a journalist with your background working for MSM, you should have lots of connections to get links we the ruck can't have.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

"I guessing we might hear about how the FBI sold the guns and ammo to an acquaintance or fellow muslim. Or maybe that the NSA knew about them. It's not easy staying off the radar and obtain such a large quantity of guns-n-ammo."

So I guess this attack was the fault of the FBI for giving radical Muslims weapons or the fault of the NSA for not stopping them. We apprear to agree on one thing though, putting a gun in the hands of radical Muslim leads to danger.

"Or maybe we won't hear about it as it feeds the fear and the votes to the poor clowns who still think our adventures in the Middle East are about terrorism, and not oil and gas hegemony."

I believe you are correct in this assessment but let me add one point; the majority of American want to drill for oil shale and run an oil pipeline across the US to reduce our dependency on the Middle East but the current president won't allow it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"Was Farook radicalised by external agents, or by a culture that is rabidly islamophobic?"

Are you suggesting we shouldn't criticise the religion of peace as it may lead to the faithful drilling holes into people with firearms? Someone had the appalling cheek to argue Islam isn't a peaceful religion? Truly unforgivable in a land with free speech.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

it would be as forgotten as the Planned Parenthood shooting a few days ago (remember that?)

Oh that was different though....that dude surrendered to authorities. He didn't fly to Saudi and bring back radical Jihadi Jane. He didn't make ied's , fake pipe bombs. He didn't believe he'd be going to "heaven."

The planned parenthood shooting was domestic terrorism, no doubt. But on a much smaller scale compared to what Farook and Jihadi Jane carefully planned and managed to pull-off.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

kcjapan

Nothing personal but I have to ask. Do you get little balls of spit foam in the corner of your mouth when you type or just when you rant?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Okay look. Even if the label of terrorism sticks, that does not mean they were not nuts too. It also doesn't mean Farook was not driven over the edge by a bigoted coworker.

At this point it does not appear like they were actually trained by a terror group or were members of a sleeper cell. It seems most likely that were not, but decided to do this act all of a sudden on behalf of some group. That said, I doubt any group would have approved of the target of a mental facility.

But I say again, none of that precludes the idea that they were as nutty as all the other people committing mass shootings, nor does it preclude the idea this was also at least partly motivated by simply going postal.

And even if it is declared to be terrorism in the end, if I were in America I would still be more worried about some native born pseudo Christian nut shooting me. Yell terrorism all you want. Still FAR more murders in America are committed by native born pseudo Christian White freaks. Plus America still kills far more innocent Muslims in the Middle East with its secretive drone program alone and not even counting all other military methods.

But keep harping on this one attack and shouting "Terrorism!" if it makes you feel better about the other 300 plus non-terror mass shootings this year. Keep driving your gas guzzler with reckless abandon. Keep defending the unfettered flow of guns and ammo. And keep forgetting about murderous attacks on abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood and certainly DO NOT label those as terrorism.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

At this point it does not appear like they were actually trained by a terror group or were members of a sleeper cell. It seems most likely that were not

But still, Jihadi Jane pledged allegiance to ISIS leadership.

It also doesn't mean Farook was not driven over the edge by a bigoted coworker.

All Farook had to do was go to SB county HR and filed a complaint.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Are the reports of them having a baby true?

They had a six-month-old daughter whom they left with family before doing this

2 ( +4 / -2 )

"Was Farook radicalised by external agents, or by a culture that is rabidly islamophobic?"

Statements/questions like this make me laugh.

So people who believe that Islam is violent and say so are bigots and this caused Farook to become violent which will make more poeple say that Islam is violent and create more bigots. One more point about this "rabidly Islamophobic" culture you write of; the news agencies bent over backwards to not show the picture of either killer nor their names or religious affiliation. Did the abortion shooter get the same privacy. Not at all and that is how it should. I counted a one-to-one ratio of "don't let Islamophobia win" articles to actual articles about the shooting.

Also love the part about "external agents" whatever that means. Are we talking about radical Imams, a religion that preaches violence (and spare me the standard retort that all religions have preached violence at one time; it's been countered many times), the moon, the stars? Either way the message is clear; it's not Farook's responsibility!

Hey! Can we use the same logic about the abortion clinic shooter? Probably not and that's a good thing; he should have the book thrown at him regardless of his stance on abortion.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

But still, Jihadi Jane pledged allegiance to ISIS leadership.

That's nice! Would it have been better if she had pledged allegiance to some anti-abortion group? Or had some other motive for killing people, like all the other nuts?

All Farook had to do was go to SB county HR and filed a complaint.

As if that coworker is the only bigot in America! I lean toward the idea that the coworker was more the straw that broke the camel's back than anything. Look at that dude's eyes man. He does look rather nutty. I bet he was treated as such by many, and his faith was just another convenient angle of attack.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Would it have been better if she had pledged allegiance to some anti-abortion group

anti-abortion groups are not as violently notorious as Islamic State or Al-Qaida. When was the last time anti-abortionist decapitated somebody? or burned them alive? arming and radicalizing children?

As if that coworker is the only bigot in America!

Well then, perhaps people who pledge allegiance with ISIS and radical islam should not be working in the United States of America. They can go back to Raaqa, Medina or Pakistan for all we (americans) care.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

as you watched the news they were calling it a mass shooting by a co-worker thus assuming a white Christian.

later when the name was revealed you could hear the glee in their voices and see the relief in their smiles as the reporters began to bring forth the term "terrorist"

so long as the suspect was not white they could call him a terrorist and when they discover the suspects were not Christians it was verified they could call them terrorists.

this is why i get so disgusted with America..they do not even attempt to hide their bigotry

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Complete BS JimMcBride.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

anti-abortion groups are not as violently notorious as Islamic State or Al-Qaida.

Or the U.S. military. I think you might want to consider the fact that the two groups you mentioned are embroiled in long term wars. Anti-abortion groups are not.

When was the last time anti-abortionist decapitated somebody? or burned them alive? arming and radicalizing children?

What is the big difference between being shot to death, decapitated and burned alive? The end result is just as dead as the last. Yes, I do understand that Middle Easterners have a fixation with decapitation. But you have to understand that Americans have a fixation with shooting people dead.

Arming and radicalizing children? American pseudo Christians do that all the time! Go to youtube and witness young children shooting guns. And do you think a White Christian fundie fails to dictate their beliefs to their kids? Do think anti-abortion killers spring forth from nowhere?

Well then, perhaps people who pledge allegiance with ISIS and radical islam should not be working in the United States of America. They can go back to Raaqa, Medina or Pakistan for all we (americans) care.

And how many of the 300 plus mass shootings this year in America would that idea solve? Three?

You seem to have great difficulty prioritizing, you know that?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

What is the big difference between being shot to death, decapitated and burned alive?

Its more grizzly and sends a stronger message when people are held for ransom and then decaptiated or burned. Maybe that kind of gore sits well with you.

Go to youtube and witness young children shooting guns.

Exercising their rights, thats all. Or maybe they want to shoot grandpa's gun outback in the woods. Hunting perhaps? Whereas ISIS militants make children stand posts armed with AK's. Or order them to execute prisoners.

And how many of the 300 plus mass shootings this year in America would that idea solve? Three?

Woe-woe-woe . . . your changing the topic. . . how is that a valid response to me my:

Well then, perhaps people who pledge allegiance with ISIS and radical islam should not be working in the United States of America. They can go back to Raaqa, Medina or Pakistan for all we (americans) care.

????

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

"What is the big difference between being shot to death, decapitated and burned alive?"

"Its more grizzly and sends a stronger message when people are held for ransom and then decaptiated or burned. Maybe that kind of gore sits well with you."

Yes, drilling holes into people with firearms is far more civilised. The US has a sick gun culture and these filthy devices are romanticized by sick people. A child with a gun in its hands is as repulsive as a child smoking a Marlboro with a glass of Wild Turkey.

A decapitated corpse and one riddled with bullet holes are both grotesque.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Wc626DEC. 05, 2015 - 10:52AM JST Oh that was different though....that dude surrendered to authorities. He didn't fly to Saudi and bring back radical Jihadi Jane. He didn't make ied's , fake pipe bombs. He didn't believe he'd be going to "heaven."

Bolding mine.

I wonder why you seem to think that matters.

The US government plays fast-and-loose with its definition of terrorism in order to count attacks on military targets as terrorism sometimes, but basically there are three things we need to call something terrorism. It has to be (A) an act of asymmetric warfare where (B) civilians are intentionally targeted in order to (C) spread fear and anxiety that draws attention to a cause. Whether or not the terrorists are religiously motivated is irrelevant. If the shooter thinks they're going to heaven, that doesn't make their victims any more or less dead, nor does it change their tactics or change the appropriate tactics authorities need to use to stop them.

Westerners tend to fixate on the "Muslim" part of "Muslim extremist", but the more I read the more I think it's the least important factor in the equation. Interviews with captive Daesh fighters in Iraq show many of them to be illiterate. They self-identify as Muslim, but they lack even the most basic grasp of Islamic theology. We see something similar in westerners who leave their home countries to join Daesh - these people don't have any grasp of Islamic theology. The appeal is the delusional belief they're creating a utopian society or striking out against people they think have wronged them - they aren't pursuing a religious doctrine.

What we seem to be seeing in this latest attack is the same kind of societal spree-killing that has been part of the American landscape for decades, where radical Islam only seems at best a token cause for the attack, a way to justify feelings of anger and aggression that have been simmering in the attackers for a very long time. If anything, this is proof that Muslims can assimilate into American society. What is more American than buying a bunch of guns in anticipation for the day that you flip out and shoot up your workplace?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Jim McBride. Yep, Jim, America has nothing but bigorty towards Muslims. Check out this article now on JT. "New York steps up outreach to Muslims"

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Katsu, Illiteracy has nothing to do with it. Mohammed was illiterate if you didn't know. The problem is with Islam itself. It is quite literally a set of cult ideals that focus on every basic cult ideal you can imagine. Islam requires (as stated in the Qur'an) don't question Islam. Islam requires (as stated in the Qur'an) that one shall be "muslim" with no real choice in the matter whatsoever, from birth. Islam requires (as stated in the Qur'an) those that attempt to leave Islam by their own choice, shall be persecuted. Islam requires (as stated in the Qur'an) those who were not "born" Muslim or convert to Islam shall be subjugated, taxed, and treated as much less than equal status of humanity that we currently know in this day and age. I could go on, but I already know how this all works. I can go on and on because there is so much source material to go off of.

Truly learning about Islam will prove that it all equals every amount of coercion and indoctrination you can imagine that you can apply to cult ideology. Notice the kind of people that actually "convert" to Islam from a "western" or democratic/humanitarian country would probably jump on some other cult mentality bandwagon if Islam wasn't available.

Everyone that keeps claiming the root of the problem has nothing to do with the actual teachings of Islam keep completely ignoring and side stepping the actual problem with the ideology. Islam is only for Islam (and even then they're against themselves....), so don't expect anyone outside of Islam to get any kind of sympathetic or empathic understanding returned.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"The Americans aren't as completely stupid as the littlest gun nuts would believe and the NRA pays to enforce in the U.S. Congress. So, play your games, cry baby your bang-bang and keep an accurate death toll. The Year of Gun Violence 2016 has been created by the NRA/GOP. Answer to the parents of the dead when the NRA/GOP throws the bodies on the front porch of the world's newspapers. Oh, wait, the cry babies are calling Momma NRA to ask what to say to the single anguished posts on JT."

I'm trying to find a logical argument somewhere in that, but all I can see are logical fallacies. Name-calling, mostly.

The FACTS are that this couple of nutbags committed mass murder, including the manufacture of IED's, (murder is illegal regardless of the method), and a whole host of other crimes. That's the FACTS.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Please provide a link to verify this.

You can look it up yourself. You do and I'll see if I can counter your argument. My job is not to hold someone else's hand.

What is the big difference between being shot to death, decapitated and burned alive?

You really want to ask that question?

The end result is just as dead as the last. Yes, I do understand that Middle Easterners have a fixation with decapitation. But you have to understand that Americans have a fixation with shooting people dead.

So you are saying, Americans kill in the name of Christianity at the same rate as Muslims do with decapitation.

Arming and radicalizing children? American pseudo Christians do that all the time!

Really? How? Do they go on suicide missions constantly? Do they kill indiscriminately and make videos and say, they will murder any apostrophe?

Go to youtube and witness young children shooting guns.

As a child, I would go duck and deer hunting with my father and I never even contemplated wanting to harm another person. You're pigeonholing.

And do you think a White Christian fundie fails to dictate their beliefs to their kids? Do think anti-abortion killers spring forth from nowhere?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

"Westerners tend to fixate on the "Muslim" part of "Muslim extremist", but the more I read the more I think it's the least important factor in the equation. Interviews with captive Daesh fighters in Iraq show many of them to be illiterate. They self-identify as Muslim, but they lack even the most basic grasp of Islamic theology. We see something similar in westerners who leave their home countries to join Daesh - these people don't have any grasp of Islamic theology. The appeal is the delusional belief they're creating a utopian society or striking out against people they think have wronged them"

Which Islamic theology would that be? One of the problems which has been identified by Muslims themselves is the beliefs of Sunni Islam in particular are very anarchic compared with the the more rigid beliefs of something like Catholicism. The question of who speaks for Muslims is often described as the man with the loudest voice at the moment in time. The illiteracy or ignorance of people who join Islamic State is pretty hard to make generalizations about ( one UK girl who joined was academically excellent ) but one generalization is irrefutable - they regard themselves as Muslims.

This group calls itself Islamic State, attracts those who regard themselves as followers of the Islamic faith and has the stated goal of creating an Islamic caliphate. I don't think the question of Islam is incidental.

@Bass I want to know what the big difference is between being shot to death and decapitated or burned alive.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Bass You can look it up yourself. You do and I'll see if I can counter your argument. My job is not to hold someone else's hand.

In other words you made the number up, like you did the Rick James lyric you attributed to Obama, as the list of things you made up grows. I'm going to assume you must be unsure of your beliefs if you have to distort information to make your point.

The emotional back and forth on these pages is understandable; it's obvious people have strong opinions and fortunately we're permitted to express them. But I think posters shouldn't fabricate to make cases. I admit I was wrong in prematurely saying the San Bernardino terrorists used automatic weapons. The fact, as I understand it, was they used legally purchased assault weapons that were subsequently altered. I erred in saying they purchased automatic weapons. Mea culpa.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just a little knowledge for some of the news agencies and politicians.

When two guys at work exchange "f yous" and throw punches - that is work place violence. When you have a dozen IEDs, show up at a Christmas party with pipe bombs, remote control detonators, a couple of thousand rounds of ammo, several 30 round mags and 2 rifles and two hand guns, have recently returned from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, have a bomb making lab set up in your house, chances are you ARE NOT guilty of work place violence. You are a Terrorist.
6 ( +7 / -1 )

HonestDictatorDEC. 05, 2015 - 02:43PM JST @Katsu, Illiteracy has nothing to do with it. Mohammed was illiterate if you didn't know.

I think any sensible person would agree that illiteracy is a teensie bit less of a barrier to founding a religion in one's own time compared to understanding a religion founded ~1.5 K years ago by a man who is now long dead. Let's be realistic, if you please.

The problem is with Islam itself.

An argument often made, but which utterly fails to account for the 99+% of the Muslim population who have never harmed anyone.

But really, it's not surprising certain segments of the Western population would fixate on "Muslim-ness" over any other factor in explaining extremism (like for example, say, extremism). The small, the cowardly, and the foolish of nearly every society in history have tried to define themselves as good by virtue of the group they are a part of while defining the people they don't like as evil by virtue of the group they are a part of, as opposed to defining the morality of individuals by the choices they make. It's a nifty psychological trick for sparing yourself of the ever so taxing task of figuring out if what you do is actually moral or immoral. So much easier to just make your own morality a tautology and spare yourself from awkward self-examination. That way you never have to wonder if it's immoral to say, kill innocents among the enemy, because definitionally by virtue of being the enemy they can't possibly be innocent.

It's something we constantly see expressed by people who join Daesh themselves. They're good because they've decided the group they're in makes them good, so it's okay for them to harm innocents. Who would have thought the people most vocally opposed to the terrorists would have something so fundamental in common with them?

JimizoDEC. 05, 2015 - 03:17PM JST The question of who speaks for Muslims is often described as the man with the loudest voice at the moment in time.

Anyone who thinks Daesh is the group with the loudest voice does so only because they've been studiously ignoring the far larger population of Muslims around the world.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I think the point is that if the shooters are Muslim terrorists then we need to take action. If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"I think the point is that if the shooters are Muslim terrorists then we need to take action. If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on."

An example of how a white nut job killed someone and the we just moved on would be wonderful.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

An example of how a white nut job killed someone and the we just moved on would be wonderful.

How about that guy named George Bush? Or that other guy Barrack Obama? Though he's only half white.

Amazing the reaction here about "mass?" shootings, but not so much in the way of what's causing it all. I guess that's a matter of opinion but it's kind of hard to ignore the fact that the Middle East is where most of the fossil fuel resources are easy to get at.

Hummmm......could there be a confection? Naaaaaa!

VOTE FOR HILLARY! VOTE FOR RUBIO! is all the MSM is going to feed you. Funny the brainwhashers over at FOX and CNN are trying to convince everyone now that Rubio or Cruz will be the eventual leaders, when facts show they are gaining little speed and Trump is clearly moving up. Meanwhile, the FOX and CNN brainwhashers are also trying to downplay Hillary's "likability" and illegal problems while giving very little respect to Sanders.

Screw it! Lets go shopping and then to church, or is it the other way around?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Katsu78

I'm not talking about IS and neither were the people who made that observation. The loudest voices in Shia Islam have been the mad, fatwa-pronouncing, bloodthirsty ayatollahs in Iran. A staple of Al Jazzera was the lunatic Yusuf al-Qaradawi who gave all sorts of pronouncements to millions on air. Here's a taste of his views:

"But the balance of power will change, and this is what is told in the Hadith of Ibn-Omar and the Hadith of Abu-Hurairah: "You shall continue to fight the Jews and they will fight you, until the Muslims will kill them. And the Jew will hide behind the stone and the tree, and the stone and the tree will say: ‘Oh servant of Allah, Oh Muslim, this is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him!' The resurrection will not come before this happens." This is a text from the good omens in which we believe."[3]"

I really could go on here. How is it that people like this are tolerated by the media in these places? Why isn't there a massive outcry to have filth like this taken off the air? Loud voices like his are sadly far from unique.

I don't doubt the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people but I think I can be forgiven for being a little uneasy that the vast majority seem very tolerant of loud, extremely unpleasant voices.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

"I think the point is that if the shooters are Muslim terrorists then we need to take action.

Because most white 'nut jobs' are acting alone out of their own angry, paranoid fantasies, but were not part of any movement with an articulated agenda or goal; while Islamic jihadists are members of or ideologically aligned with state sponsors of terrorism and groups that have declared their intention to destroy the U.S. and the free world.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Bass Please provide a link to verify this. You can look it up yourself. You do and I'll see if I can counter your argument. My job is not to hold someone else's hand.

In other words, it's the number you reported came from the paisley unicorn you've been sniffing.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

His eyes are yin sanpaku.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

JimizoDEC. 05, 2015 - 03:17PM JST The question of who speaks for Muslims is often described as the man with the loudest voice at the moment in time.

JimizoDEC. 05, 2015 - 04:21PM JST I'm not talking about IS and neither were the people who made that observation.

So to defend against one criticism of your baseless accusation you substitute another baseless accusation. What precise unit of measure do you use to determine the "loudness" of a Muslim voice, let alone the "loudest" voice? What studies have you taken to objectively make this assessment?

I suspect that you haven't taken any. The far more likely case is you've assessed the "loudness" of certain Muslims by how you personally, as a biased outsider, feel their volume is. As an outsider, you have no interest in the hundreds of thousands Muslim voices who say nothing confrontational, but any time you hear of anyone who might be saying something negative toward your group it subjectively feels "louder". That's not a measure of the true volume of the voice though, that's simply a measure of how much attention you choose to pay to it.

To bring it back to something of interest to this board, it's much like how certain people in the foreign community in Japan get so swept up in defending themselves from Japanese discrimination against foreigners that they only pay attention to stories they hear of discrimination. Without even thinking, they weed out any story of Japanese people giving neutral or even unfairly positive treatment toward foreigners because that doesn't fit their fear-driven agenda. And in the end, they stop being aware that any Japanese people who don't hate foreigners even exist.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on.

Not true at all. Think back to all the KKK killings and how the FBI infiltrated and busted up the Klan. What you do have I will admit is an administration hesitant to do the same thing for Muslim groups, as well as the Black and Hispanic gangs for fear of being seen as "racist" just as some neighbors told stories of how they saw groups of Middle Eastern men coming and going from the shooters place at all hours. Our nation's fear of being un PC and allowing the loudest rabble rouser a microphone to spew half truths as well as lawyers who would do anything to sue a government agency is what is holding the US back in eliminating some of these problems. But it will be willing to go after any group that may want to backlash against Muslims as the AG most recently stated.

What I want to know in all of this, what is being done by the FBI/Homeland about the group of men that the neighbors reported? Where is the follow up rounding of them up for questioning and vetting their stories. Yet all we hear from the left and Dems is their talking points on gun control. Here's a memo those on the left should remember, if this lady and her group found a way to get someone who is a radical from Pakistan into the country with our supposed strict vetting process, no matter what gun laws you try to enforce or even if you out lawed them, they would still find a way to get them in. Heck, they didn't even really need to use a gun since they had explosives on the stand by.

I have seen some post that this act pushed away from the top of the news cycle the white guy who shot up an abortion clinic, and how his fundamental beliefs were the cause and it is religion and talk radio and Fox news for sending that guy over the edge. Even during the development of the current story, MSNBC tried many times to let us know that the shooting took place not far from a Planned Parenthood center. Well, let's not forget that, he was a nut case and deserves to be punished for his crimes. But not all anti-abortions people believe what he did was right.

However, lets not forget this news story: 5 Nov 2015: UC Merced student went on a stabbing spree and injured 4, had a backpack full of petroleum jelly and was a follower of radical Islam.

Yet the left wants us all to believe that not every Muslim follows these beliefs, but doesn't give a Christian nut the same benefit of the doubt. I realize not all Muslims are terrorists, but I also realize I have to get frisked and searched by TSA when I board a plan, and I have no radical leanings in me whatsoever. They need to realize if they want to come to this country, they will have to face an increased level of scrutiny, just like everyone else.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Look at that dude's eyes man. He does look rather nutty

Definitely guilty. Of not lowering the stool in the photo booth.

Islamic jihadists are members of or ideologically aligned with state sponsors of terrorism

Precisely - the Saudis.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In other words, it's the number you reported came from the paisley unicorn you've been sniffing

Naw, bro, I leave that to you libs. I never said, it's concrete and I never said quote me on it. It's about, but definitely more, at this point, what difference does it make?!

I think the point is that if the shooters are Muslim terrorists then we need to take action. If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on.

But the reality is, the majority of these type of murderous crimes are committed by radical Muslims, that's not racist, that's a fact.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I think this guy went ballistic at the wrong moment. Up until then he followed the advice of his brother mentor to the letter.

I am hoping, just hoping, that the gentle-looking wife may have secretly decided to make sure the bombs would not go off as planned.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I just hope nothing close to this happens around X'mas time.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

samwaters: An example of how a white nut job killed someone and the we just moved on would be wonderful.

An example of any new policy after any mass shooting by white nut jobs would be wonderful.

Like I said, just bury the bodies and move on.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

You guys do the same, just blame anyone and everyone else but the perpetrators.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@SuperLib. 2 comments. #1.) You ducked my question so I'll ask it again; name one white nut murder who was swept under the table. #2.) Judging from your posts you think whites are nuts so why would you expect a policy from them?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I think the point is that if the shooters are Muslim terrorists then we need to take action. If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on.

That's correct. Typical white nut jobs don't really have an agenda as a whole. However, the muslims- who's loyalty is with Islam, including the radicals have a "Holy War" agenda against the west.

No wonder US, UK, & France have stepped up their air campaign. . . . Obama just did a 180 by setting "special ops forces" on the ground. Just a few though.

Funny how those same "white nut jobs" just HAPPEN to be in the SP forces . . .burying jihad john and "move on."

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

If they had been your typical white nut job then we'd just bury the bodies and move on.

Again not really true. As this event was unfolding, MSNBC kept trying to somehow push an agenda that the facility was close to a Planned Parenthood clinic and how they thought that it was going to be another devotee of the radical anti-abortion, evangelical crowd. When it turned out that it had nothing to do with that but Islamic terror, then the left trots out this workplace violence angle.

The only move on in the press that I see is the one kid I mentioned in my post above that went on a stabbing spree at a CA college campus, and how he had ties to ISIS, but somehow that one is not getting much press attention. And not to point out another obvious omission, a white guy did go on a shooting spree at another CA campus, but his dad was some Hollywood director type and somehow this one is not spoken of at all, but they keep wanting to bring up the CO shooting.

So much for sticking to no partisan news and providing real info rather than just spin.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Bass Naw, bro, I leave that to you libs. I never said, it's concrete and I never said quote me on it. It's about, but definitely more, at this point, what difference does it make?!

I understand. From now on if you don't write "it's concrete and I never said quote me on it" then I know you're just bloviating. You're a former (current?) MSM writer so I'd expect you to know that you need to use sources when you quote a number or percent, not just pull them out of the gun smoke fog around your head.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I understand.

I don't think you do.

From now on if you don't write "it's concrete

Depends on what it is.

and I never said quote me on it" then I know you're just bloviating.

I don't do that.

You're a former (current?) MSM writer

Journalist

so I'd expect you to know that you need to use sources when you quote a number or percent, not just pull them out of the gun smoke fog around your head.

I do all the time, the problem is, if I don't use hard progressive site sources, you guys always dismiss them if it doesn't feed into the progressive far-left narrative. I'm not going to play that game. I don't need to, don't have time to play emotional games. I do this every single day. I know what's real and what's garbage.

That's why.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

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