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Fears of war spillover ease after NATO says missile on Poland was Ukrainian stray

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By Anna Wlodarczak-Semczuk, Agnieszka Pikulicka-Wilczewska and Sabine Siebold

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108 Comments

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Well, that will be enough for the pro-Russia crowd to justify the war for another day then: "Look, Ukraine lied."

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

The Russian Defense Ministry said none of its missiles had struck closer than 35 km (20 miles) from the Polish border, and that photos of the wreckage in Poland showed elements of a Ukrainian S-300 air defense missile.

According to the published photos, researched by military experts, the remains of the rocket belong to the Ukrainian-owned S300 AD rocket. Surely, we will wait for the result of the actual material based investigation but the the important PRIMARY conclusion has been drawn.

As we have learned from other cases of the S300 application, the system does not work flawlessly during the shot - that has been confirmed many times by videos, taken by Russians in Russian cities close to the border with Ukraine. Obviously, the same mishap might have happened to the Ukrainian-owned S300 during its shot at the Russian missile.

However, here comes the MOST IMPORTANT FACT:

If Russians did not go to war, if during the war they were not attempting to eliminate Ukraine at all costs, mostly humane, as an independent state, if the Russian MoD was not ordering barrages of deadly rockets upon the Ukrainian infrastructure and the Ukrainian people, then NO Ukrainian S300 rocket - or any rocket for this matter - would have been shot in any direction!

This is what we must remember: who triggered this bloody madness on the 24th of February !!!

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Time for a bit of humble pie eating for all the US propagandists on here yesterday!

-9 ( +16 / -25 )

Putin is responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. He can end it by ending his war. There is no need for humble pie.

Putin has fired thousands of missiles at civilian targets killing thousands of people.

6 ( +21 / -15 )

nah

-10 ( +8 / -18 )

nah

yeah. This is why no NATO action will be taken against Ukraine.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Joe and NATO took their time and got it right. And it’s still Russia’s fault. Just not militarily actionable.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

Joe and NATO took their time and got it right. And it’s still Russia’s fault. Just not militarily actionable.

And the thing here is, even if it were Ukraine’s fault, NATO acting against Ukraine would be against Russian territorial claims anyway. NATO in, Russia out. Be careful what you wish for, pro Russians.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

The lack of any knowledge about this really doesn't surprise me but saddens me none the less. People really are ill informed if they think this war starting within 2 weeks of the NORD stream 2 coming on line was a coincidence! Some peeps need to read something other than the tabloid bunk and the US propaganda!

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

he lack of any knowledge about this really doesn't surprise me but saddens me none the less. People really are ill informed if they think this war starting within 2 weeks of the NORD stream 2 coming on line was a coincidence! Some peeps need to read something other than the tabloid bunk and the US propaganda!

lol Take a big look in the mirror, my guy. Some folks really need to something than RT. Bunch hilariously bad takes, keep it going.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Some peeps need to read something other than the tabloid bunk and the US propaganda!

What should we read, Sanjinosebleed? Where should we do "our own research"? How can we remove the blinkers from our eyes? I am genuinely interested.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Were not some people claiming that if the missile was Ukrainian it would never be recognized as such and reported on the media?

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Ok. So Russia started a war in Ukraine because of NORD stream 2.

LOL

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Well, that will be enough for the pro-Russia crowd to justify the war for another day then: "Look, Ukraine lied."

Not sure which is worse. Them, or all the pro-Ukraine folk frothing at the mouth yesterday unable to accept that it might have been Ukrainian.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Seems that many here are trying to say stuff like " they took their time as they should... blah blah blah and got it right" there have been hundreds similar incidents inside Ukraine but not one time has any western government or media taken their time and immediately blamed Russia based solely on Ukraine's word ( I will include the pipeline that the reasoning given by the western that Russia did it and the nuclear power plant).

The only difference now was that Poland unlike Ukraine and Russia still have a free press and freedom for their people and uncensored images got out before the authorities could control the narrative.

"Stray " interesting! I have seen the maps and location of the incident in Poland, if Ukraine was firing at incoming Russian aircraft or missiles that "stray" would have been fired in the opposite direction away from Poland, even if Russia was firing from Belarus.

So remember "it was Russia, it was Russia" until the one place people are free to see and speak, then it is "ooops we were wrong."

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Facts still are facts:

if deranged, egomaniac Putin hadn't started this aggressor's war this wouldn't have happened.

It is sad to see that once again 2 innocent civilians got killed (so far by a Ukrainian missile that went off course).

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Ukraine but not one time has any western government or media taken their time and immediately blamed Russia based solely on Ukraine's word ( I will include the pipeline that the reasoning given by the western that Russia did it and the nuclear power plant).

lol Well, yeah, when you a Fascist, imperialist government invades it's neighbor, you probably won't be given the benefit of the doubt in many circumstances. Don't like that? Don't invade other countries. Simples.

The only difference now was that Poland unlike Ukraine and Russia still have a free press and freedom for their people and uncensored images got out before the authorities could control the narrative.

Freedom of the press? What are you talking about? Try criticizing the government of Russia from Russia, like you do here the US, and tell me how that works out.

So remember "it was Russia, it was Russia" until the one place people are free to see and speak, then it is "ooops we were wrong."

lolol Yes, the "one free place" - Russia.

https://rsf.org/en/index

1 ( +8 / -7 )

@Moonraker

You 'do you own research' by looking through facebook post and obscure articles until you find one that aligns perfectly with what you already believed.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

NATO should investigate if it was an attempted false flag operation or if it was a genuine stray.

G20 leaders issued a closing declaration saying "most members strongly condemned the war in Ukraine", although it acknowledged that "there were other views".

Yesterday the headlines were screaming that all leaders condemned Russia. Guess this is how propaganda works.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Cards fan

Today 08:30 am JST

Ukraine but not one time has any western government or media taken their time and immediately blamed Russia based solely on Ukraine's word ( I will include the pipeline that the reasoning given by the western that Russia did it and the nuclear power plant).

> lol Well, yeah, when you a Fascist,

ah the name calling and insulting, a signed of having do leg to stand on using fact!

The rest is drivel as you clearly didn't understand that

"the one place"

*I was referring to was Poland!

so now what other names will you come up with

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy demurred, saying "I have no doubt that it was not our missile", Ukrainian media reported on Wednesday. He said he based his conclusion on reports from Ukraine's military which he "cannot but trust".

He gave no evidence for his position, while saying he believed Ukraine should already have been given access to the site of the explosion as Kyiv had the right to be there.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

ah the name calling and insulting, a signed of having do leg to stand on using fact!

I'm not calling YOU that. Are you a country invading other countries? If not, what would make you think I'm talking about you. Let's apply some critical thinking, shall we?

*I was referring to was Poland!

Yes, of course, Poland! The one free place on Earth. Good point.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

“Associated Press issues correction after reporting Russian missiles killed two people in Poland”

The Associated Press said that they relied on information from a 'senior American intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity'

zelensky also claimed such, already knowing it was false when he said it.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

And the whole anti-Russian brigade of whiners singing in chorus, "it was Russia, it was Russia"...

And now are whining "still Russia's fault, still Russia's fault!!"..

LOOOOL..

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Milley say no Ukrainain victory in the foreseeable future

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

The Tu-141 that crashed in Zagreb, Croatia back in March has been kept quiet too.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Had the locals and free press in a free country like Poland ( unlike Russia and Ukraine with freedoms blocked by their governments) the pro Ukraine here would have continued saying it was a Russian missiles because that it what they are told!

It doesn't matter the truth or facts we know that because they believe the "Russia blew up the pipeline to blackmail Europe" line also. Think about that for a second, I have incriminating photos of you, I am using them to blackmail you, on the day we meet to discuss possible payment, I delete all the evidence and say "now I really got you pay up or I will ..... ooops I don't have anything to blackmail you with anymore" that is what the western governments and news are telling you and you believe it.

Well this time they tried and what happened without threats of imprisonment and press control like in Russia and Ukraine the Polish people and press released images without censorship and the west had to backtrack on the "it was Russia"

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

This senselessness could be put to an end if Russia would stop its terrorist bombing campaign against civilian targets.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

The one point not being discussed here yet, is the one that interests me. It has been determined that the missiles were from Ukraine missile defense not from Russian fired ordinance.

Apart from the fact the Russians can miraculously identify the debris as Ukraine from pictures that actually reveal nothing. Russia was more hoping it was not theirs than knowing for sure. The pictures revealed no such identification of debris.

That Zelensky still says it was not Ukraine because he must trust his own military. Clearly his military got this wrong but are unable to admit that. Fair enough that Zelensky must trust his people but he should have indicated there would be deeper investigations to find out how this "error" came about. The error of claiming the missiles were not Ukraine, and how Ukraine missiles ended up in Poland. This is the first demonstrable instance of incorrect reporting from Ukraine.

There have been literally thousands of instances of incorrect reporting from Russia, who can never be taken at face value in this conflict but must be investigated to get to the truth each time. This one instance for me says Zelensky and Ukraine can also get it wrong on occasion.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

There have been literally thousands of instances of incorrect reporting from Russia, who can never be taken at face value in this conflict but must be investigated to get to the truth each time. This one instance for me says Zelensky and Ukraine can also get it wrong on occasion.

I agree. War is messy. If Russia hadn't started a war, Ukraine wouldn't have been in a position to make this mistake. This one is on Russia.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

G20 leaders issued a closing declaration saying "most members strongly condemned the war in Ukraine", although it acknowledged that "there were other views".

Correct.

Yesterday the headlines were screaming that all leaders condemned Russia. Guess this is how propaganda works.

Where? I did not see such a headline anywhere, or hear of one saying that. Russia being part of the G20 would not be condemning itself, so not all leaders could possibly be doing as you suggest. FAKE NEWS!

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Had the locals and free press in a free country like Poland ( unlike Russia and Ukraine with freedoms blocked by their governments) the pro Ukraine here would have continued saying it was a Russian missiles because that it what they are told!

Interestingly enough, Poland and Ukraine have roughly the same level of press freedom. Both are higher ranked than Russia. https://rsf.org/en/index

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Russia is being vilified.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Russia is being vilified.

They have more than earned it.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Russia is being vilified.

Russia is literally the villain. It's pretty rare that you have a cut and dry case of one side being entirely in the wrong, but Russia, by invading a sovereign nation, and committing war crimes against its innocent civilians, is entirely in the wrong on this one. And when one side is entirely in the wrong, that makes them a villain.

So you're incorrect, Russia is not being vilified. Rather, the Kremlin decided to be villainous.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Putin fired hundreds of missiles across Ukraine yesterday.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Zelensky said it was Russia. he already knew it wasnt, because he had been told.

How could you possibly know what Zelensky did or didn't know?

By now the guy is doing anything (including bald faced lying) to keep his money flowing after FTX scandal

Ah yes, it's all a massive conspiracy. The Bidens goaded Russia into invading Ukraine so they could launder money into the country. Genius.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

'I have no doubt that it was not our missile,' he said, adding that he believed Tuesday's explosion was caused by a Russian missile, and that he had based his conclusions on reports from Ukraine's military which he 'cannot but trust'.

when people speak things, others tell us what they said.

There is also a video of him saying it for those of you who dont believe what you read.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Putin fired hundreds of missiles across Ukraine yesterday.

It's also worth pointing out Russian missile launches last month violated Moldovan airspace.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

when people speak things, others tell us what they said.

Lol that's not in dispute. How could you possibly know if he knew at that time that his statement was incorrect? You can't. You don't know.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Interestingly enough, Poland and Ukraine have roughly the same level of press freedom. Both are higher ranked than Russia.

Really? I guess you missed Ukraine shutting down all news not under government control, I guess you missed the second most corrupt country in Europe after Russia.

Since the war started It is a crime in Ukraine to report anything without government approval, have you seen a BBC reporter in Ukraine other than in Kyiv? What about Reuters, etc... They are confined to certain locations and given the news to report, the same as in Russia and Russian controlled areas

Read every article, they all say the same thing because they are all given the same news by Ukrainian and Russian authorities.

Why do you think all the Reuters reports keep saying "Ukrainian sources" and never our reporters.

Even in Iraq we got news from war zone reporters some imbedded other freelance, here all we ever get from both side is "official sources "

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

I guess you missed Ukraine shutting down all news not under government control

And still freer than Russia's!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Russia is being vilified

Don’t cry.

They deserve it.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Really?

Yes, really. I'm merely pointing out what Reporters without borders has said. If say they probably know what they're talking about.

I guess you missed Ukraine shutting down all news not under government control, I guess you missed the second most corrupt country in Europe after Russia.

Oh wow! Do you think maybe that has something to do with Russia invading them? Do you think that maybe if Russia is successful in taking over Ukraine that they might have even less freedom and even more corruption? As you pointed out, they're second in corruption only to Russia!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Given it was supplied to Ukraine from NATO and probably had NATO goons operating it, I think in the interests of "democracy", "freedom", "the rule of law" and all that good stuff which NATO apparently ascribes to (except when it doesn't suit their interests), NATO should immediately declare Article 5 has been activated and start bombing themselves

Tears and now hysterics from the pro-Putin types.

Very weak. Smells like desperation.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Russia has fired 4,500 missiles and launched more than 8,000 airstrikes throughout the Ukraine war.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

How could you possibly know if he knew at that time that his statement was incorrect? You can't. You don't know.

Even Biden knew it was false.

How could Zelensky not know?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

How could Zelensky not know?

No, no. How could you know what Zelensky knew?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Tears and now hysterics from the pro-Putin types.

I'm pro freedom, equality, democracy and etc so I'm anti-NATO, not pro Putin.

Very weak. Smells like desperation.

It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I don't expect NATO to start bombing themselves in the middle of Europe just yet though it's nice to dream. On the periphery, Turkey - Greece and Turkey - USA are very close. GO TURKEY!!!!! So sad about Greece but now it what it is.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Strangerland

Today 10:15 am JST

I guess you missed Ukraine shutting down all news not under government control

> And still freer than Russia's

That is like saying well he was poisoned by strychnine well at least it wasn't cyanide.

Your trying to justify removing people's freedom by saying well at least it is as bad as XYZ.

So I guess the next time a government like Canada criticizes China, you can reply "well better than North Korea".

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Putin has killed 6,490 civilian Ukrainians and injured 9,972.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Your trying to justify removing people's freedom by saying well at least it is as bad as XYZ.

Lol Well, Ukraine is fighting to remain a free and independent country right now. It's not uncommon for civil liberties to be curtailed amidst a war, but it is disingenuous to try and draw comparisons between freedom of press between Russia and Ukraine.

The gap in press freedom is between Poland and Ukraine is less than the gap between Russia and Ukraine, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

That is like saying well he was poisoned by strychnine well at least it wasn't cyanide.

The kremlin is both the strycnine and the cyanide.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Given it was supplied to Ukraine from NATO and probably had NATO goons operating it,

The article says it was an S-300 rocket made in the Soviet Union, an old rocket . More soviet-era junk.

The S300 missile can be retrofitted to explode at the ground level but this requires deliberate technical changes to the missile itself.

Or it could just be another bit of wonky Soviet-era junk that didn't work right.

have you seen a BBC reporter in Ukraine other than in Kyiv?

I've been listening to newscasts the past few days from reporters in Lviv, Kherson and elsewhere as well as in Kyiv, so, Yes.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

all we know at this point.

missile was made in USSR and was part of UA army stockpiles.

rocket was fired from UA towards PL/check on map PL and RU position/.

logically if you want to stop rocket fired from East you fire your S300 on that direction-not opposite to the West.it makes completely sense.

UA "heroi" had either some issues with GPS/since sure they dont use Glonass/ as rocket did not fly east but west or had too much of horylka/or something else/.

in any case it was serious threat to NATO member and ended by killing of two PL citizens/EU and NATO citizens/ and UA is the one who have to take full responsibility and take measures that same thing will never ever repeat again.no excuses at all Volddymyr.no excuses.

there are US troops on PL soil equipped with best-in-the-world Patriot systems and they may say that missile was detected but did nothing to stop that archaic soviet product from landing in PL and explode and kill innocent people.

in other words that overpriced Patriot system is either not that "perfect" as pictured by US gun salesmen or simply US army is not ready for these kinds of missile attacks at all.

last thing.

PL PM ,president and gov have said that they will push attacker.there will be strong and immediate response.

in this case attacker was UA.

we see no action yet.

its not good sign for PL citizens as well as for citizens of SK,HU and RO/all UA neigbours,EU and NATO members/ as same "stray missiles" may land at their territory anytime soon.

its not nice feeling to be told that they are protected by best-in-the-world US guns and NATO membership and cant do anything in case of UA will shoot missiles in future towards their territory again.

a BIG precedens.

last thing to note.

good thing is to see that even we see warmongering by mouth of politicians from both sides of conflict through media and social sites-there is still existing common sense prevailed this time as not one have pushed RED button yet.

Its time to ensure that Kiev regime will be pushed by their donors/protectors/gun suppliers from EU and NATO that this will never repeat again as next time may not end with these silly UA excuses.

Voldymyr be resposnible.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Voldymyr be resposnible.

No. If the Kremlin hadn't invaded Ukraine, this whole mixup never would have happened. Therefore it's Russia and Putin's responsibilty and fault.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Strangerland

S300 rocket was ukrainian one.

Volodymyr as president is top commander of UA army.

Its his solely reponsibility.

I hope all clear enough now.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

S300 rocket was ukrainian one.

Volodymyr as president is top commander of UA army.

Yes, fighting against the Russians, who invaded his country. If Russia had not invaded, this missile would never have been fired, and those people would be alive.

Just two more dead people as a direct result of Russia's actions.

Putin and the Kremlin are entire responsible.

I hope all clear enough now.

Well, your logic was entirely flawed, I just explained why above. So yes, now should be clear. Though I expect your eyes are still seeing hazy.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I am all for scepticism and the first casualty of war is always the truth but I still find it hard to fathom how some people come round to a pro-Russia stance even with these provisos. Russia supposedly embarked on this crusade of protecting Russian speakers in the east as well as denazifying Ukraine and keeping NATO at bay. Even taken at face value it is hard to see how spraying missiles around civilian populations and committing other assorted atrocities is justified. No whatabouts now, how do you justify this in your own minds? Do the ends justify any means? Or are these just lies and actually Russia is a misrepresented humanitarian state?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Strangerland

I am sorry as you cant understand simples possible explanation.

Howgh.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

I am sorry as you cant understand simples possible explanation.

Huh? You don't seem to be able to understand my simple explanation.

I'll break it down a little simpler for you. Let's start with this - if Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine, would this rocket have been fired?

If you say yes, then what makes you think that? And if you say no, then you can see that Putin and Russia invading Ukraine is directly responsible for the deaths of these to people in Poland.

It's like if you get in a car accident in Japan without a license - even if the other person caused the accident, the driver without a license is found to be at fault, as they shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. In this case, Russia shouldn't have been in Ukraine in the first place, therefore all deaths as a result of Russia being in Ukraine are the fault of Russia.

It's a very simple concept.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I'm pro freedom, equality, democracy and etc

Very noble. You must absolutely despise the Putin regime.

This doesn’t come across in your posts.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

EastmanToday  12:03 pm JST

Strangerland

I am sorry as you cant understand simples possible explanation.

Howgh.

It was a simple explanation.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Yes, it’s a real war there and things happen like this. But the real and more hidden disaster is, that it is also said that Poland defense had that missile fully on radar for quite a time but couldn’t avoid the impact explosion even with Patriot missile defense at hand.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot !! LOL.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Russia now promotes a conspiracy theory that it was allegedly a missile of Ukrainian air defense that fell on the Polish theory. Which is not true. No one should buy Russian propaganda or amplify its messages. “

Ukraine government official statement.

The expiry of supposed conspiracy theories is measured in days by now not years.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

What Ukraine government did here is literally the definition of “false flag op”

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

The expiry of supposed conspiracy theories is measured in days by now not years.

Do you think this conpsiracy has more or less basis in reality than your favorite conpsiracy? (The one where you still think that the election was stolen from Trump in 2020)

1 ( +5 / -4 )

What Ukraine government did here is literally the definition of “false flag op”

The Ukrainians wouldn't need to do a false flag op if Russia hadn't invaded them.

No matter which way you cut it, it's Russia's fault.

But I can understand that our Russian posters would prefer not to admit that.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I wonder if the firing of the missile was funded by the US?

Ukraine is treating America like an ATM, and there is still no end in sight for this war.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

What Ukraine government did here is literally the definition of “false flag op”

So the missile was fired at Poland deliberately?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

So Ukraine is justified into lying the world right into world war 3 under false pretenses?

they are justified in intentional spreading of mistruths to continue to take money from world taxpayers?

it was their missile and they shot it. Why is their government officially stating intentionally and falsely something else?

thats wrong.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

So the missile was fired at Poland deliberately?

According to Ukraine, yes.

but not by them.

that’s the dangerous lie they telling. It was intentional and Russia did it.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

thats wrong.

You know what else is wrong? Invading a sovereign country, but you won't hear a word about that from our rightist friends here.

According to Ukraine, yes

lol Nope.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

So Ukraine is justified into lying the world right into world war 3 under false pretenses?

If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, would Ukraine be lying about this? Clearly the answer is no, so clearly it's Russia's fault.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Seems that it was due, in part, to a Russian missile attack.

Perhaps it went off course and was an accident. Accidents do happen in wars, even illegal wars. Ukraine should compensate the families of the dead and be forthcoming about the accident.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Literally everybody else is saying it was Ukraine, and it was accidental. What Zelenskyy says about it is not going to start WW3. Not the U.S. or NATO or Poland is going to be baited like that. What might send them into Ukraine (or even Russia) is it happening again due to further Russian aggression. It’s not a false flag operation. You could call it an attempted cover up but not a false flag op. Man… and Russia was complaining about the hysterics in western media, but the hysterics in the comments here take the cake.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Oh how quick was everyone to jump on the "Russian missile" bandwagon. Lol.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

How many (Eastern) Ukrainians has Kiev killed since 2014?

Are you referring to Ukraine trying to take back Crimea, stolen from them by Russia early last decade?

All Russia's fault.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Oh how quick was everyone to jump on the "Russian missile" bandwagon. Lol.

Because it's clearly Russia's fault. You don't think this would have happened if Russia had not invaded Ukraine, do you?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

So non- NATO Ukraine killed two polish citizens of a NATO member with a missile, but gets off scot free? What if Russia did it?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Rodney - relax, it's only been a day. Would you have NATO invade and occupy Ukraine over this?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, would Ukraine be lying about this? Clearly the answer is no, so clearly it's Russia's fault.

is there any level of purposeful deception and receiving of billions of dollars of money under false pretenses (while edging the world towards WW3) this is NOT acceptable just because "Russia invaded".

This is deception to generate sympathy and financial gain above and beyond anything that can be supported.

Now a false flag is supposedly ok. Anything else beyond that they can do and lie about thats "fine"?

Ukraine said Russia did it to a NATO member, while demanding the world take action against Russia for doing it. and it was all false. cant you see how this is not only wrong, but dangerous?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

So non- NATO Ukraine killed two polish citizens of a NATO member with a missile, but gets off scot free? What if Russia did it?

An accidental occurrence brought on by Russian aggression. This is why Russia is still receiving the blame. If Russian missiles accidentally hit Poland while trying to target Ukraine, NATO should go into Ukraine to help defend themselves and Ukraine from Russian aggression.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

What Ukraine government did here is literally the definition of “false flag op”

So the missile was fired at Poland deliberately?

It could have been accidental. But seeing how Zelensky and other nearby leaders were immediately crying "Article 5!" (some of these leaders knew it was not fired by Russia, yet they still wanted NATO to attack), I tend to favor it having been intentional.

Zelensky realizes that he's been greatly weakened and that Russia will soon have at least 300,000 well trained reservists ready to go...

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

false flag operation is an act committed with the intent of disguising the actual source of responsibility and pinning blame on another party. 

...Similarly deceptive activities carried out during peacetime by individuals or nongovernmental organizations have been called false flag operations, but the more common legal term is a "frameup", "stitch up", or "setup".

If we want to be 100% correct for the people who play word games here, maybe its really one of the "similarly deceptive activities" mentioned.

Russia was framed and set up falsely. in the hopes the world would retaliate militarily against Russia and keep the billions of sympathy dollars flowing to Ukraine. If it was really an "accident" why was it not presented as an "accident that Russia caused". It only changed to an accident when Ukraine was found responsible, despite their false claims to the contrary.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Russia was framed and set up falsely.

Oh no! We wouldn't want to "frame" Russia now, would we? What have they done wrong? It's not like they've invaded Ukraine, launched missile strikes against civilian targets, and violated Moldovan airspace with their rocket fire. Pathetic.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

If Russian missiles accidentally hit Poland while trying to target Ukraine, NATO should go into Ukraine to help defend themselves and Ukraine from Russian aggression.

good thing it was actually a Ukrainian missile and an accident, huh?

cant have World War 3 start over some blatant lies.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

so "Russian missile attack of Poland triggered Article 5,” doesnt mean what I think it does, that is time for WW3 based on a lie?

leftist and their narrative parrots sure seem to be fine with lying and flagrant deception when it is "justified".

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

leftist and their narrative parrots sure seem to be fine with lying and flagrant deception when it is "justified".

And you sure seem fine with Russia invading Ukraine, and raping and pillaging the country. Tell me, which do you think is worse? The pro-invasion, pro-imperialism apologia is pathetic.

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*A false flag operation is an act committed with the intent of disguising the actual source of responsibility and pinning blame on another party. *

so Ukraine fired the missile at Poland intentionally and they proceed to try and lay blame on Russia. That’s what you are saying. If not, then there was no intentional act to try and lay blame on Russia. Which is it?

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man the word salads that have to be endured.

Ukraine shot the missile. They knew they shot the missile. They tried to deflect by saying Russia did it. then Russia did it but it wasnt fired from within Russia. then it was a "Russian made missile" withholding who fired it.

All the time demanding that NATO take military action under Article 5 authority against Russia for their intentional attack. Knowing the whole time it was not a Russian attack at all and was not intentional.

when even Joe Biden had enough mental ability to say hey Russia didnt do this and its a Ukrainian missile accident ...here we are.

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*A false flag operation is an act committed with the intent of disguising the actual source of responsibility and pinning blame on another party. *

Again, if it was accidental, there was no intent.

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Ukraine shot the missile. They knew they shot the missile. They tried to deflect by saying Russia did it. then Russia did it but it wasnt fired from within Russia. then it was a "Russian made missile" withholding who fired it.

Which do you think is worse? Ukraine allegedly lying about who fired the missile, or Russia for invading Ukraine? That the rightists here can't answer that question is telling.

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Which do you think is worse? Ukraine allegedly lying about who fired the missile, or Russia for invading Ukraine? That the rightists here can't answer that question is telling.

the two things need not be evaluated in parallel.

Both can be wrong independent of each other.

Why couldnt Ukraine have just told the truth from the beginning?

Well one of my real life liberal friends just told me that this is Republicans fault. Because we need to give MORE money to Ukraine so that they wont have to use unreliable Russian missiles next time.

liberals are hilarious, I know I used to be one.

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I believe the term lesser of two evils applies.

the term is not "one evil and one not evil".

Its the "lesser" of two evils.

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the two things need not be evaluated in parallel.

And yet you criticize only one. I think we know why.

Frankly. I don't think anyone who can't be bothered to criticize Russia for their raping and pillaging Ukraine have any place to criticize Ukraine in this situation.

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And yet you criticize only one. I think we know why.

because this article is about the one I am criticizing.

We are up to 91 billion in US funding requests. Seems that would buy a little truth and honesty instead of deception. You can deceive whoever is not paying the bills, go right ahead. We are paying for this.

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because this article is about the one I am criticizing.

Yup, only Ukraine. Everything is Ukraine's fault, and Ukraine allegedly lying about the origin of the missile is just as bad as invading another country. Got it!

We are up to 91 billion in US funding requests. Seems that would buy a little truth and honesty instead of deception. You can deceive whoever is not paying the bills, go right ahead. We are paying for this

Good! Let's keep it going until every last one of the Russian invaders have left. Unlike rightists, I actually value freedom and think it's good when we help others maintain their autonomy.

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No Ukraine lying about the origin about the missile is bad.

as compared to nothing else, as no comparison is required.

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No Ukraine lying about the origin about the missile is bad.

lol No. Russia invading Ukraine is bad. This wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, and hadn't fired missiles at Ukraine. Spare a thought for the victims in Ukraine, if you will.

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But seeing how Zelensky and other nearby leaders were immediately crying "Article 5!" (some of these leaders knew it was not fired by Russia, yet they still wanted NATO to attack),

links?

I’ve been following this story since it first broke and I have seen no one, least of all Zelensky whose country is not a member, demanding Article 5 be invoked.

As for Zelensky claiming it wasn’t a Ukrainian missile - totally natural and understandable. Not because he’s a liar, but because he knows neither he nor any of his military brass ordered a missile to be aimed at Poland, and there’s only one other country lobbing missiles around in the neighborhood. Perfectly natural to assume initially that Ruzzia was at fault,

Ruzzia is at fault.

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Blacklabel

No Ukraine lying about the origin about the missile is bad.

as compared to nothing else, as no comparison is required.

How do you know that Ukraine lied? I don't think we know for sure that it was a Ukrainian missile or not, or that Ukraine had any idea if it was or not.

Now, I'm not saying that it wasn't fired by Ukraine's air defenses, but the fact that NATO says that, could well be to de-escalate tensions in Poland.

I would say, that the origin of the missile is still unknown.

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If we want to be 100% correct for the people who play word games here, maybe its really one of the "similarly deceptive activities" mentioned.

Do you think your prediction above is more or less likely than the 2020 election being stolen from Trump?

(People should understand you are one of the 2020 truthseers, so they can decide whether that leaves your posts with any credibility or not)

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