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Fight over nativity display goes to LA court

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The country is doing away with Christianity. The court will ruled that the nativity scene is offensive to others. A country that was founded on freedom of religious is now anti-Christianity.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

As I understand it, he set up his own display alongside the nativity scene. I don't see the problem. The church needs to get used to the fact that many people are becoming less willing to accept the privileged treatment it expects.

4 ( +8 / -3 )

" The court will ruled that the nativity scene is offensive to others."

Will they? Or will they just rule that if the park is open to one religious group it should be open to all? That seems fair.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Here is the full story.

Battle over atheist's nativity display goes to LA court @ http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_22022550/battle-over-atheists-nativity-display-goes-la-court

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A country that was founded on freedom of religious is now anti-Christianity.

Not in reality, it's the courts that are weighing in here and making it seem that way.

Where my wife works they can not mention nor celebrate openly the Christmas Holiday because of it's Christian connections and the non-Christians in her work place, sorry the ONE protesting non-Christian threatened a lawsuit if the continued with the practice.

There are times that the ONE can cause problems for the majority.

.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Some to the posters need to read Original Intent and the Framers of the Constitution. The founders of the constitution stressed separation of church and state NOT separation of religion from the state.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So according to the mercury news link (thank you skipbeat), last year Vix and 10 other atheists applied for booths in the park, and were allowed by lottery 18 of the available 21 spaces; the Christians got 2 (instead of the 14 they were used to) and the Jews got 1. The atheist displays were vandalised, and to avoid trouble this year the city decided to have no booths. Looks like it's the Christians that are fighting against freedom of speech (vandalised? an uproar?) and for preferential treatment for themselves. (On an aside, shouldn't the fact that God apparently didn't see fit to rig the lottery tell the Christians something - like about what belongs to God, and what belongs to Caesar/the city council?)

I'm not a Christian, but I like Christmas decorations, including nativity scenes. The parish church at home always used to have a nice nativity grotto outside the entrance. I'm sure no one would object to the Santa Monica Christians putting up their displays on their own land, instead of on public land.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

As an atheist - leaning person, I don't believe any of the stories, or fables, or whatever. However, those who do believe(something) have every right to practice their belief peacefully and respectfully of others. As tatanka pointed out, the framers separated Church(as in Church of England controlling governmental decisions) and government, establishing freedom of religion to practice as each deemed appropriate(or none, which previously was not permitted). Today, however, some errantly construe the separation to mean abolishment. Celebrate whatever winter solstice you prefer.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

On an aside, shouldn't the fact that God apparently didn't see fit to rig the lottery tell the Christians something

God works in mysterious ways, he probably rigged it to lose so as to "test their faith".

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Fight over nativity display goes to California in court

Fight over nativity display goes to court in California?

Fight over California nativity display goes to court?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

For a lot of people the Xmas period is a time for family and or friends to get together, sometimes after extended time apart, and enjoy good company and good food. Exchange gifts and watch the magic of christmas on a childs face. For a lot its about all of the above but including the church Etc etc blah blah. Christmas is great..for our own reasons. Nothing wrong with a nativity display..if it makes you feel more christmasy.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

God works in mysterious ways, he probably rigged it to lose so as to "test their faith".

And instead of now looking for Him to provide, they go to court.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

If you want to have your naitivity scene, by all means enjoy it. On your property or on church property that doesn't enjoy tax exempt status. If you keep it out of the public, I guarantee the atheists will take theirs down. Atheism only exists in opposition to religious infringements.

Also, why do Christians get all offended about Christmas? It is not "Christ's" birthday. It is a mix of Saturnalia and other pagan customs which Christianity piggybacked on.

As a hard agnostic who is sick of the dangers of religion, just keep it to yourself and practice it at home. You wouldn't even know that someone is an atheist until you start forcing your beliefs on them.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I can understand both sides in this, but if it's public property then the church can't claim preferential status based solely on tradition when traditions are changing. They can advertise on church property or other property they can rent (barring any of the violence Cleo mentioned).

Personally I like the nativity scene decorations, for the most part. I find them warm and inviting, and the message quite positive, despite the fact I'm not Christian, but ultimately if it offends people, it can't be public.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I know someone that used to steal the baby jesus statues. He is an atheist. Told him he was mean.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

We have already gone through the same like this in my state about 10 years ago. The Christmas display in front of the state capitol was annoying some non Christians. The final decision of State Supreme Court order was to remove it based on the Separation of Church and State. I have been avoiding to say "Merry Christmas" to Japanese who are Buddists. I just do not want to offend them. I just say "Happy Holiday!!" instead. This is a very sensitive and a personal issue.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I have been avoiding to say "Merry Christmas" to Japanese who are Buddists. I just do not want to offend them. I just say "Happy Holiday!!" instead.

Erm...you do realise that Christmas in Japan is NOT a holiday? I hate it when people say Happy Holiday. It's like they're rubbing it in. I'd much rather they said Merry Christmas. And gave me something to be merry about, like a bottle of Scotch. :-)

I know someone that used to steal the baby jesus statues. He is an atheist.

The vandalism in Santa Monica was being perpetrated against the atheist displays.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I wonder if these fine athiestic folks;

a/ realize the names of their cities (Los Angeles, Santa Monica) are ALSO religious in nature? They should petition to have those names changed to something secular.

b/ Take their federally legislated holiday on Christmas day while sourly grunting "happy holidays" to all who pass within earshot. I guess the "C-word" never passes their lips.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Globalwatcher I think that's taking it a bit far. Thankfully, the vast majority of Japanese treat religion as a tradition which is part of a cultural heritage rather than a dogma - something many countries would do well to learn from. The most offensive thing about Christmas in Japan is hearing 'Last Christmas' by Wham - truly unholy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Agree with you, Herve Nmn L'Eisa; as an atheist agnostic living in Japan, I am quite aware of how Christianity pervades America, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. There are arenas in which to express ones opinions and others in which respect is called for, and the above case to me falls into the latter.

We all know that Christmas is an almost complete secularization of what originally was a very minor observance (the whole point of Christ, after all, was his death and resurection, not his birth) - and that the holiday itself was co-opted from the pagan festival of Saturnalia (whole lot easier to retain and rename traditions than to scrap what the public loves) - but it still means a whole lot to a large portion of the populace, even secular types.

Activist atheists who take up such struggles harm the cause overall by making themselves look silly. Let the idolaters have their fun; it does no harm to anyone.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I don't think anyone SHOULD favor one god over another, or none at all. I think that allowing a Christmas display is more of a cultural than a religious act. It's a symbol that should bring people together, not push them apart.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What's wrong with a bit of Christmas stuff. The kids at my local public day care used to be taken to a small shrine and shown how to pray here but it didn't upset me at all. People take this separation of church and state too far.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“It’s a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested,”

They had me all the way till the point they compared themselves to Jesus. At that point I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

As an atheist, I really don't have a problem with 99% of the displays I used to see. I do shrug at the ones that insist on making Christmas religious, as I like my holidays secular, but I have no problem with including Christian mythology along with all the other mythologies scrambled into the season. However, in cases such as these, where the atheists kind of go out of their way to be dicks about it, I tend to lean to the side of the churches. I just seems like a petty place to pick a fight.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Small wonder that America is in fhe state its in today. The once proud nation "under God" prospered. America as a nation is now turning its back on God, and is reaping the consequences. The majority of Americans still claim to be Christians, but many of those people have turned their backs on God's Laws. In doing so, they have forfeited His Divine protection. The Bible says that a nation that trusts in God is blessed. Atheists are free to believe in whatever they choose to. I think that their actions in trying to mock Christian faith and belief, especially at this time of the year, simply shows they are mean spirited and downright nasty. They could do with a good dose of Christmas Spirit. The message of Christmas is God becoming Man, to die for our sins, it is about Peace on Earth, and goodwill to Men (and women) with whom He is pleased. Its a time to be nice to othe people, not nasty and mean spirited like the militant atheists of Santa Monica.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

@realist I agree America has turned its back on the teaching of Jesus. Who gives away all they own to the poor? Who tells their children that it easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God? Didn't America prosper through ambition, hard work and the wish for a better standard of living? In celebrating the nativity I think all Christians should realize that the reason America prospered was by ignoring these teachings.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

God lover's or God hater's or just I don't really care...Live, and let Live, and dont steal and dont vandalize, and build your own solice display...and give me back my baby Jesus....in the word's of late Rodney King; "Can We All Get Along?"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think that their actions in trying to mock Christian faith and belief, especially at this time of the year, simply shows they are mean spirited and downright nasty.....Its a time to be nice to othe people, not nasty and mean spirited like the militant atheists of Santa Monica.

How about the nasty and mean militant folk (quite likely Christians peeved at not winning the lottery for spaces) who vandalised the atheist displays?

it is about Peace on Earth, and goodwill to Men (and women) with whom He is pleased.

I was always taught, Peace on Earth, good will to all men.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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