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© Wire reports2 Cambodian soldiers killed, 5 Thais wounded in border clash
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smartacus
That's all we need. The world is seriously in need of an enema. The question is where to put the nozzle.
Nippon5
You got that right....
now lets all sing ...
We are the world we are the children,
sickearth
humm.. just let it be. this 2 people just love to hate anyway.
smithinjapan
The Thais are just miffed that Cambodia has Angkor Wat, which the former claims is theirs. They've been fighting for centuries.
moonbeams
this is stupid
some14some
Good opportunity for Japan to play leadership role since it has good influence in the region.
Jyan_Bon
What is ASEAN doing? Both countries belong to the group , aren't they?
CavemanLawyer
I bet that chunk of land is real important and real useful. NOT!
Has nobody ever heard of diplomacy? I would give that chunk of land to the fool who wants if I could get something more valuable in return, like something in the form of a treaty. --Cirroc
adaydream
I've been hoping that bright minds would halt military actions. Thailand needs to back off. I'm still hoping that the Thais will see that peace doesn't include more deaths, especially for a religious site. < :-)
wargalley20011
There has been some anti-Thai sentiment for the past few years. I know Thai television shows, and movies were banned from being sold in Cambodia. People still buy them on the black market. You can watch the monkey king so many times. lol
brandnewx
Allow me to brief the story. Cambodia soldiers have always been around the Preah Vihear temple for a decade now after Khmer Rough surrendered after its occupation of the site for two decades. It was just in July 2008, Thai soldiers all of a sudden illegally entered Cambodia and claimed that the land was their. It was like a group of armed gangsters breaking into a civilian's house and demanded to hand over the cash and jewelries. The conflict goes tense since then as Thai soldiers refused to leave and kept encroaching further into Cambodia. Their boldest attempt was on October 03 2008 when Thai soldiers were on a mission to cut off the road from Cambodia side to Preah Vihear. They stepped on an old Cambodian landmine left over during the civil wars in Cambodia, yet managed to make up an excuse that Cambodia lays new landmines in their territory. Ok, this is when thing heats up.
There have been numerous talks between Cambodia and Thailand's governments, but an agreement has never been reached. Thailand sent their Foreign Ministers to talk just to play along, as Thai military withholds the authority from Thai government from doing their jobs. It was the internal conflict of Thailand all along. Thai government now is nothing more than a powerless entity. It has the police but not the military.
timorborder
This is getting interesting. I agree that Japan has a role to play in this. With the amount of money that Japan pumps into the region through direct investment and ODA, Tokyo has the power needed to twist some arms down there. I can think of three letters which would come in handy in any discussions both with Cambodia and Thailand. These are ODA. Basically cut of the supply of cash and technical assistance to both countries and see what happens. The only problem of course would be that some other countries (read China) might use any Japanese strong arming as an excuse to come to the aid of one (or both) of these countries.
The other question I would like to ask is what is the role of the Thai King in all this. With a status next to god in the eyes of his subjects, nothing happens in Thailand unless he signs off on it. In the past, coups down in Thailand have collapsed because the king has called folks up to the palace for a grovel session (commoners on their knees in the royal presence). I would hate to think that the old bloke is actually encouraging this.
Anyway, let's hope that both sides pull their heads out of their respective XXXXX and stop this mucking around.
paulson
brandnewx, you are wrong.
The fact is The mountain and area is in Thailand. Thailand allow some khmers to crossed the border to sell things in the village. This make people misunderstood that it is khmer land. When we reach the architecture, we can see Thai and Cambodia flag. and the land around that is Thailand. There are no problem for long time.
The problem occur when Cambodian want it to be world heritage site. And draw unacceptable map crossed to Thai area.
paulson
The ancient landmines were remove by helping of Thailand long time ago. But, after injury of a Thai soldier at the border by landmine. New russian landmines, which are oftenly used in Cam. were found in the area. Thai soldier didn't crossed the border there. But, politician in Cambodia just say that to gain something. Thailand have to protect their land, so they send soldier there after they found Cambodia send more troops.
paulson
Thailand has strong policy of "peace". And they help cambodia much to improve the living quality, public health, infra-structures, and education. But, what cambodia do Thailand now.
paulson
Angkor Wat was a part of Cambodia and was a part of Thailand before. Because Siamraj, Phra Tabong, Srisophon were a part of Thailand before. It's not fault to say it was Thai and it is not fault to say it was Cambodia.
"was" = "the past"
But...
smithinjapan "The Thais are just miffed that Cambodia has Angkor Wat, which the former claims is theirs." < This is totally wrong sentence!
brandnewx
paulson, I don't quite see the reasons of overloading with duplicate comments. I won't reiterate my comment.
timorborder, yes I think Thai king is in this the whole time. The recent Thai coup was in fact initiated by him. The military made it very clear that they did it for Thai king. TV stations were taken off air and forced to play documentaries about its king. I believe the border issue was initiated by this old man as well. If you watch the video clips in the news. His son is seen controlling the military and giving orders at the very border.
Thailand has a government that can't control anything. Two weeks ago, a group of protesters locked its PM, ministers and senators inside the House, and the government couldn't do anything about it. Because one false move would lead to another coup; thus, the end of Thai democracy. Thai PM had to jump over the nearby wall for his life. At the end of the day, they used tear gases, and now Thai king has ordered the Thai court to punish the Thai government for that.
In short, Thai king has direct control over the military and the court. His words are orders that must be obeyed.
brandnewx
"Thailand has strong policy of "peace". And they help cambodia much to improve the living quality, public health, infra-structures, and education. But, what cambodia do Thailand now."
You know what paulson. Tell me one thing that Thailand has done good for Cambodia. I can yank out a long list of what Japan has done good for Cambodia. Japan built bridges for Cambodia, and Thailand? Nothing. Japan donated millions of dollars to Cambodia, and Thailand? Nothing. Thailand thought they helped Cambodians during the Pol Pot regime, but it didn't. I suggest you read some eye-witness accounts about the way Thai soldiers forced thousands of Cambodian refugees to walk across minefield to die at Preah Vihear. Google it, you'll see.
FromEurope
Preah Vihear Temple is considered as one of the most important archeological site after Angkor Wat. This dispute of the ownership started more than 100 years ago.
For Thailand, the value is not only from the religious point of view, but also the touristic point of view. If we consider that Cambodia’s tourism is only Angkor Wat (except the beach resort), vicited in average 9000 tourists daily ( I paied 40 dollars for 3 day pass, last year) , economical importance is obvious. And the access of the Preah Vuhear Temple is much easier from the Thai border than from Cambodian side.
When there is a conflict, it’s almost always for the money…
FromEurope
Thai started the invasion in July, because the UNESCO made the ownership of Cambodia official by registering the site in the World Heritage list, in spite of the contestation of Thailand.
sickearth
look at Cambodian here said what they think they know so much about thais and thailand! <br> / <br> ask, how do you seem to know so much about thailand? from your trustworthy news media and your PM? <br> ok, can you even make sure how many of your troop injured or died? ...? <br> / <br> you see to know soooo much that thai want this, thai want that, that say this, say that!! wow! who tell you? the same media that make up a story which cause the embassy incident last time? <br> / <br> sorry we do not have anti-combodian like what your gov successfully created anti-thai back in your country. that why your sister and broth combodian still can live happily in thailand, but it won't be long. by the level of hoax and somebody said news coming out of your side. and history tell that thais need no goverment telling us to re-act to someone or something.
sickearth
one more thing for the sake of correction from a cambodian from europ miss-info. <br> / <br> that temple has almost no value for most thai. and thai did not invaded anyone. the troop always there for as long as i can remember a thing. they station right there on the thai border at the easthern exit of the temple. <br> the place where oneday combodian PM said we intruded in, then he change the next day said that we left the area! <br> what thai want is just what we have left after french took away from siam. we have the eastern side of the temple exit left, that is all we got, and that is all we are protecting now. <br>
<br> we
brandnewx
The proof is in: Thai military is caught having systematic lies for Thai people and the world. yesterday They said no Thai soldiers were captured, and Cambodia said they captured 10 Thai soldiers and would return them to Thailand on request, but Thai military refused to back down saying no Thai soldiers were missing. Here it is the picture of truth:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-cambodia03_k8s23onc,0,1338633.photo
To average Thai people, they are being systematically lied to and buy what their military personnel and royals tell them. Thailand needs to reconcile internally. Thais should put an end to the fighting between 'Thai Royal, Military, PAD and Court' vs 'Thai Government and Majority of Thai Voters'. Otherwise, Thai military will keep on being a group of armed gangsters encroaching into other people's house.
Nippon5
That picture in the LAtimes seems a little wierd since the so called prisoners are not bound and one is holding a walkie talkie... TO me it looks more like a group of people who know each other sitting, but maybe in Cambodia they dont cuff the prisoners and allow them to talk on communication equipment....
FromEurope
Maybe not for the most Thai people, but for UNESCO, it's worth a World Heritage site award. Even if the Thai people don't give no value, the world gave the most prestigeous consideration to this archeological site. And that's what count.
Nessie
What kind of a World Heritage? A tribute to humans' long tradition of bone-headed conflict.
Chantra
Nessie, what kind of a World Heritage for Sukhotei and Ayuthaya? Do you know that Thailand took ancient Khmer cities of Sukhotei and Ayuthaya to be protected by the UNESCO?
Chantra
Paulson, my advice to you is to listen to both side Cambodia and Thailand comments, analyze them before speaking out.
Thailand keeps saying Thai soldier patrolling their Thai territory peacefully. Suddenly 3 Thai soldiers blew up themselves losing their legs on the land mine!!!??? If Thai patrolling inside Thailand territory, where those mines coming from????
Cambodia keeps saying Khmer soldier patrolling inside their Cambodia territory too, but why none of Khmer soldier blow up in the land mine????
According to CMAC http://www.cmac.org.kh/index.asp
They did not clear all mines placing by the KR during war in the deep jungle inside Cambodia.
Thailand sent Thai soldiers to occupy the only one Cambodia access called the Eagle Field (Veal Entry) so Cambodia could not bring food supplies and military equipment from the Preah Vihear province to the Preah Vihear temple. Thai soldiers were trespassing by the deep jungle inside Cambodia to avoid been seeing by the Khmer soldiers patrolling, then Boom....Thai soldiers were stepping on the land mines losing their legs because Thai soldiers did not know that there were mines in the deep jungle inside Cambodia.
Chantra
Paulson, Angkor Wat was NEVER a part of Thailand.
When Thailand was a Siam Kingdom, Siam attacked Angkor Wat without warning. Cambodia did not prepare for the Siam attack for over 100 years after Cambodia defeated the Chams. Siam burned Khmer libraries, plundered Khmer treasurers, killed Khmer people, killed Khmer priests and captured Khmer royal dancers and Khmer intellectuals like animals forcing them to teach Siam of Khmer Civilization.
Thai were Siam and Siam were Tai people living in Nanchao, China. Tai people took refugee into Khmer Empire when the Mongol invading Nanchao. Khmers helped Tai people and offered Tai people of Khmer lands, Khmer alphabet, Khmer vowels and Khmer numerals as you can see Khmer alphabet, Khmer vowels and Khmer numerals using by Thais as Thai official language today in Thailand.
Thailand signed the Franco-Siam treaties in exchange Siem Reap, Battembong and Sisophon with other Khmer lands such as Buriram, Surin, Sisaket and a few more...
If Thailand wanted to claim these above lost lands, why not Cambodia claims the whole Thailand back? The whole Thailand was owned by Khmers when Thais were Tai people living in Nanchao, China.
For the past 700 years since Khmers helped Tai people from the Mongol and Khmers helped Siam from the Burmese, Thais never created anything by their own to impress the world, but to destroy Khmers, steal Khmer lands, steal Khmer culture and Khmer temples and claimed belonging to Thais without shame.
thedeath
If Thailand wanted to claim these above lost lands, why not Cambodia claims the whole Thailand back? The whole Thailand was owned by Khmers
i think it is depended on what time period you want to say. if thais use the time period during siam grew incredibly large, thai would be able to claims a lot of place in cambodia.
with the same readion, china can claims a lot of country in asia and europe.
german, UK, France, ... on n on
why not respect what we have now, and stop the hated so call anti-thai, anti-khamer...
narrr i know people will start talking peace, but not without destroy it first!
sickearth
<br> then <br>
Nessie
Apparently one without a sense of humor.
I'm not sure what you mean by "take." Sukhotai and Ayuthaya have been Thai for quite some time. No need for Thailand to take them.
Chantra
thedeath, Siam did not grow incredibly large like Khmer Empire and Siam never built anything incredibly at all. All magnificent temples in Thailand are all Khmer temples building by Khmers. When Siam plundered Angkor Wat from Khmers and Siam wanted to introduce to the European that Angkor Wat belonging to Siam, the European refused to accept it and told Siam that Khmers were the creators of Angkor Wat, not Siam people. Even the word Bangkok that Siam wanted to change to Krong Thep, it was refused by the European, because Bangkok is the origin Khmer name means Grass Lake.
Thailand lost land is Nanchao where it became Yuanna in China today. Thais were Tai people living in Nanchao, south of China. The Thai tonal speaking is the Tai tonal speaking group in south of China. Tai people ran away from the Mongol invasion with the empty hand nothing on them. Khmers helped them to found "Muang Tai" in Khmer land even the Thai royal family still writes the world "Muang Thai" on the Thai royal airplane today.
If Paulson want to claim Thailand lost land Siem Reap, Battembong and Sisophon, I want to claim Cambodia lost land Thailand too. Khmer Empire ruled over SEA and Khmer Civilization spread over SEA until Khmers making a mistake by accepting Tai people to live with Khmers because Khmer trusted Tai people so much that Tai people had to betray Khmers and destroyed Khmers. Thais knew that and that’s why Thais never allowed Khmer refugees to live in Thailand because Thais afraid that Khmers would do the same as Thais did>>>> betraying!!!
Chantra
sickearth, remember this >>>> no matter what Tai had changed to Siam and Siam had changed to Thai to manipulate the world, Khmers always call Thai people as "Siam" since the date they ran away from Nanchao into Khmer land for help. Sukhotei was a Khmer City given as a gift from the Khmer King Jayavarman VIII to his Brother to help Tai people founding a Kingdom. In order to have a Kingdom, Tai people must have a language writing system. Preah Rong and other Khmers taught Tai people of Khmer writing system based on Khmer alphabet, Khmer vowels and Khmer numerals. King Ramkamheing was believed a Khmer King Brother Preah Rong who was a Monk. Only a Khmer Monk can read the Khmer script and created the Tai writing system to fit with the Tai tonal speaking. Preah Rong borrowed the Khmer numerals to complete the Tai writing system to be used as Tai official language in Sukhotei. Khmer Sukhotei became Tai Sukhotai and Tai Sukhotai became Thai Sukhothai today.
Ayuthaya was another Khmer City plundering by a Chinese-Tai merchant descendant Ku Chinfa known as U Thong and named himself as Ramathibodi I. He asked China to help him and he was helped by the Chinese Ming Emperor to invade Sukhotai and Angkor Wat. China was behind Ayuthaya providing weapons to attack Angkor Wat without warning. But Khmers came back and kicked Siam out of Angkor Wat and even named a Khmer province as "Siem Reap" means "Khmers crushed Siam like bugs under Khmer feet".
Chantra
Nessie, I am not here for sense of humor, I am here to defend my Khmer people, my Khmer lands and my Khmer property from Thai aggressors.
Sukhotei and Aythaya were built by Khmers, they were the Khmer creation. Unfortunately Ayuthaya was almost destroyed by the Burmese armies. And thanks to the Khmer military that helped kicking the Burmese out of Ayuthaya.
As I said, for the past 700 years, Thais never built, Thais never created by their own Chinese-Tai creation but to rob Khmer lands and Khmer temples and claimed belonging to Thais as we all can see the bloodshed confrontation between Cambodia and Thailand over the Khmer Preah Vihear temple today at the border. Sukhotei and Ayuthaya were the Khmer creation that Thais took them from Khmers and asked the UNESCO for protection. That’s kind of a World Heritage that you questioned. Thais should appreciate Khmer people and the Khmer Kings because of Khmer people and the Khmer Kings that Thailand has beautiful Khmer temples and beautiful Khmer culture in Thailand today. Thailand has enough Khmer lands and Khmer temples in Thailand. Thais need to try living peace with Khmers and stop claiming anything more from Khmers.
Nessie
Most of the existing temples at Sukhothai were built by Thais after the Thais kicked out their Khmer overlords. So it's not true to say the Thais never built.
Ayuthaya and Sukhothai have been independelty Thai for almost 800 years. They didn't steal these for Unesco registration.
Phala
To: Nessie
Thai aka Siam aka Tai did not steal Sukhotei from Khmers. Sukhotei was a gift from the Khmer King to his Brother. There was no war record founded between the Tai independence and the Khmer Empire armies. Tai people can’t even defend their Nanchao Kingdom from the Mongol invasion, so Tai people can’t fight against huge Khmer Empire armies for Tai independence.
Ayutthaya was destroyed by the Burmese armies in 1767 and the Burmese occupied Ayutthaya. The Siam King took refugee to Odong City asking for the Khmer help. With the Khmer military help that kicked the Burmese out of Ayutthaya. But Thai aka Siam aka Tai never stop their greedy. Every times Thai aka Siam aka Tai think that their country getting better, they invaded Khmer people just like today at the border.
Thais keep changing their ID from Tai to Siam and from Siam to Thai because Thais wanted to hide the truth of their Tai root helping by Khmers.
You said most of the existing temples at Sukhotei were built by Thais, can you name it?