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Filmmaker Moore demands Georgia boycott after execution

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Let the whole world knows what his'liberty' means: Killing a police officer not a crime!

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

With a lethal injection, Georgia executed Davis at Jackson prison on Wednesday despite doubts over his 1991 murder conviction that made him a poster child for global efforts to eradicated the death penalty.

I don't get it. He was there beating the homeless man with the gun but didn't fire the shot that killed the cop. If he was iwth a group of persons, and claims his innocence, why didn't he name the person who shot the officer. Just satying "I didn't do it" is fine, I have no problems with that, but if your life is on the line, you need to start brining proof.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Just-a-guy:

There was enough evidence to cast reasonable doubt as to whether Troy Davis was the real killer of that police officer. The evidence was criminally ignored by the Georgia "justice" system. Troy Davis was not executed. He was lynched.

In the U.S. it is not cop killers who get off easily but killer cops.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I have less of a problem with the death penalty than with the issue of how it is applied, which is inconsistently and incorrectly.. Although we all share the anger of the man who is incarcerated for decades for a crime he did not commit only to be let out 20+ years later, this is far worse. There is no do over, no compensation, no appology.

Furthermore, while he was present at the scene (beyond this, I am ignorant of the details of the case and cannot hope to speak correctly so I wont), there is real doubt as to whether he is guilty of the crime he was convicted of, namely killing an off-duty police officer. There is no forensic evidence at all, and the eye-witness evidence has been tarnished beyond credibility. It would seem that he deserved at minimum to have his sentence commuted to life inprisionment.

Back to Mr. Moore. Good luck w/that buddy. Atlanta has the State's busiest airport. That is not going to change. Moreover, I doubt that you can separate your Georgia revenues from the rest of your revenue stream. In addiition, I hate to tell you this, but the South is not exactly a hot market for you. Your sales from Georgia probably could buy you a newer, cleaner baseball cap, but not a sensible low-fat meal.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Moore is nothing but an attention seeking blowhard. I seriously doubt he knows anything about the case other than what he heard on CNN and other Leftist media outlets. I will say that Moore's film 'Canadian Bacon' is hilarious.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

He looks like he has lost a little weight.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Moore is actually a investigative journalist, he interviews people, it's what he does for a living, he may well be biased, but pretty sure he is well informed. There was reasonable doubt enough to have his sentence commuted to life imprisonment. It's a shame, I support the death penalty in the most extreme instances (not this time). Would you be this mans executioner, if you had to do it with your own hand.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Boycotting GA is not going to do anything except hurt the people living there. Where was he when CA executed Stanley Tookie Williams? Why not Boycott CA? Just use your billions to Lobby to change the law.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Where was he when CA executed Stanley Tookie Williams? Why not Boycott CA?

Because it's far easier to boycott Coca Cola and CNN than it is Apple and Google.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

How can he be innocent when so many people saw him shoot the cop and made sure he was dead by shooting him again while the victim is on the ground.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I love Michael Moore but boycott the whole state of Georgia?? Better to boycott the real racists out in Arizona!!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Michael Moore is a ridiculous fool and those that believe his extreme stretches of the imagination are weak minded. Boycott a state? Boycott seems more intelligent. Mr. Moore way to use this persons death to get your fat ugly head back into headlines. Havent seen in a while.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Good on Moore. I'm willing to bet that a number of people who are against what happened to Davis will go 180 and disagree with what Moore says, just because they don't like him presenting the facts and the way he does it, but that's fine. Georgia can never fully be shunned, but there's no reason why it can't be shamed -- for it has done a very, very shameful thing.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

lastog: "How can he be innocent when so many people saw him shoot the cop and made sure he was dead by shooting him again while the victim is on the ground."

You mean like the 80% of the witnesses who recanted their testimonies?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Gee, nice timing for the release of his book. He even references it in his outrage..... What a jerk.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

SuperLib: "Gee, nice timing for the release of his book. He even references it in his outrage..... What a jerk."

So you're saying Georgia timed the execution to boost Moore's sales? Give it a rest, my friend. The man is spot on in being outraged, as everyone should be. Aren't you upset about the fact that a man was executed on so flimsy a trial and with almost all of the 'evidence' (which was nothing but eye-witness testimony) was later retracted?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"but if your life is on the line, you need to start brining proof."

I would think that the persons judging of his death have the charge of the proof... The man can be stupid and inconsistent, he can lie, he can be a violent thug with a past criminal record, and he can still be not be guilty this time. I can understand that some favor the principle of death penalty, but not those some think it should be applied in case there are doubts.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Moore is nothing but an attention seeking blowhard. I seriously doubt he knows anything about the case other than what he heard on CNN and other Leftist media outlets

So showing a proper concern for the way justice is administered in what's generally considered to be a civilised, first-world country is "leftist"?

Well, there's an awful lot of Commies out there these days....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

proper concern

more like advantageous marketing.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

What ever happened to the so called theory about innocent until proven guilty?? Aint that part of American law??

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Did he get the alchohol swab on his arm before the lethal injection to prevent infection?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Now I know I'm a little slow to grasp things, sometimes, but there has to be a little shadow of doubt. A shot policeman but they couldn't find the gun, plus no DNA proof, witnesses that changed there stories. The man asked for a lie detecter test, plus he has always maintained it wasn't him.and his last words were "it wasn't me". Well I think someone should have listened, I think the American legal system let him down.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I like Mr. Moore and respect his work. He's a muckraker in the finest American tradition, a modern version of Ida Tarbell, Upton Sinclair, and Henry Demarest Lloyd (Wealth against Commonwealth).

I do live in Georgia, however, and I'm not about to boycott my own state. The place where I live is not very far from the site of another horrible injustice in the history of the U.S. (and GA) legal system: the site where Leo Frank was lynched by a group of self-styled upstanding and patriotic citizens of Marietta -- seeking revenge for the murder of a young girl.

I often pass by the site and take time to look at the marker. In my view, the murdering "Knights of Mary Phagan" are no different in mentality from the Tea Party conservatives who cheered Rick Perry for all the executions he's approved as governor.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I still think this guy and his stupid 9-11 documentary cost John Kerry the presidedncy in 04. i wish he would just shut up about the political stuff and stick to making films about car companies.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

A shot policeman but they couldn't find the gun, plus no DNA proof, witnesses that changed there stories.

The case and evidence are a horrible mess.

In my view, the police decided early on who they thought was the killer and then stacked the deck to force, coerce, and otherwise slant the evidence to make their case. This is commonly done. Errol Morris has beautifully documented how the Dallas (TX) police and prosecutors did it in The Thin Blue Line.

When Morris puts on camera the police officer from Vidor, Texas -- the place where the actual murderer was living -- and some acquaintances of the killer, and the "eyewitnesses" who testified in court, you can see the entire case against the innocent man unravel, and how absolutely near-impossible it is to stop the state's death machine from executing an innocent man once the wheels of injustice are engaged.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Moore is a great marketing genius tho.

He has lived the American dream and made million$$ off of people.

He is like the Noamster in that respect.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

smithinjapan: So you're saying Georgia timed the execution to boost Moore's sales? Give it a rest, my friend.

What? I think Moore sees an opportunity to publicize his book and that's what he's doing. It's just absolutely absurd that he'd come out and mention that he's going to pull his book from Georgia bookstores as if we can't see what he's really up to....which is mentioning the book. It reeks and in my book that makes him a real piece of shit.

The man is spot on in being outraged, as everyone should be. Aren't you upset about the fact that a man was executed on so flimsy a trial and with almost all of the 'evidence' (which was nothing but eye-witness testimony) was later retracted?

My opposition go the death penalty can be documented on just about every death penalty thread since I joined JT. This particular article was about Michael Moore and that's where my comments were directed. I even think he knows the "boycott Georgia" position is just utterly stupid but he needed a sensational platform so he can get in more papers to publicize his book even more. As if people are going to boycott Georgia, and as if it even makes any sense at all to hurt people who have absolutely nothing to do with the decision, including those who might actually support Moore. Just look at Yabits.

I think the man is surrounded by people who buy what he's shoveling that he's not even trying anymore.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

MICHAEL MOORES is a liberal nut-job // whoever agrees with him is also a nutjob brainless zombie

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

When will this fat cow go out to pasture?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Why stop with Goergia? The execution was carried out in the United States, heck, let's have a total boycott of the United States, lol.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Killing is wrong. Therefore we will punish you by killing you. That makes sense. Despite the fact that most witnesses retracted their statements citing Police coersion. Makes more (Moore?) sense now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What Superlib said.

Bowling for Columbine aside, I don't find his work appealing and it certainly isn't really interested in opposing facts...and sometimes it's simply not the truth.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Bowling for Columbine aside, I don't find his work appealing and it certainly isn't really interested in opposing facts...and sometimes it's simply not the truth.

I regard Mr. Moore as a very important part of the American political and cultural scene. The fact that he and his family have had their lives threatened and he's been physically attacked on several occasions demonstrates just how much his detractor's believe in "freedom."

Glenn Beck openly stated that he wanted to kill Moore. Which, I guess, is freedom of speech too.

Even though he's announced this boycott of the state where I've lived most of my life -- the state I consider home -- I will give his new book, Here Comes Trouble, a plug. The stories in it are nothing less than fascinating, especially the one where he "ran into" Senator Robert F. Kennedy when he was 11 years old. I admire what Mike has been able to accomplish with his life.

When FDR said, "I welcome their hatred," we was referring to precisely the caliber and kind of enemies that Moore has attracted.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What really gets me is that the red meat types don't even care that they got the wrong guy. There's a cop killer out there and they couldn't care less.

They got their blood. It wasn't on pay-per-vier, but they got their blood.

Moore has nothing to do with it. I have boycotted the south since leaving Kentucky and my life couldn't be better. I'd take his advice just as a matter of better living.

Taka

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Oh look, one of America's famous clowns has stepped into the center ring. Time to sit down, prop my legs up and pull of the popcorn. This is going to be a good show.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I regard Mr. Moore as a very important part of the American political and cultural scene.

Are you serious? I actually found his films entertaining, though he twists some facts to fit his program. And the right wing film against him was just horrible. But to say that he's a 'very important part of the American political and cultural scene'....

But aren't you from the Detroit area Yabits? That might explain things I suppose. But a semi-entertaining documentary filmmaker who uses questionable facts at times is hardly a cultural and political icon.

I have boycotted the south since leaving Kentucky and my life couldn't be better.

I moved from the south to NY - trust me there are just as many racist rednecks in the back woods of upstate NY as there are in the hills of Kentucky.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Besides, isn't his call to 'boycott Georgia' somewhat childish? I mean the people of Georgia (well, probably many are Klan members actually) didn't pull the switch. Calling for the punishment of an entire state because a single court system within that state convicted a man of murder and sentenced him to death is as stupid as boycotting Ohio because Charles Manson was born in Cincinnati. What's next for the this rotund baby - a temper tantrum?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It would be too much like taking him seriously. He'll just try anything once and see if it floats or flies or gets a cheer. Moore's affected and ostentatious concern for black America is one of the most suspect ingredients of his pitch package.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

But aren't you from the Detroit area Yabits? That might explain things I suppose. But a semi-entertaining documentary filmmaker who uses questionable facts at times is hardly a cultural and political icon.

Yes, born in Detroit and spent most of my youth in Dearborn. Like Mike, I grew up Catholic, was an altar boy, and seriously considered the seminary.

Moore is known and respected around the world. He IS an icon. (Hey, you think Trey Parker and Matt Stone would just blow up any common shmuck?)

Besides, isn't his call to 'boycott Georgia' somewhat childish?

Yes, definitely, but Babe Ruth didn't hit them all out of the park either. If memory serves, Ruth struck out an awful lot of times too.

Moore's affected and ostentatious concern for black America is one of the most suspect ingredients of his pitch package.

It's an interesting psychological point. I could provide several more. Moore recently described himself as a "terribly flawed individual. But many artists are. And Moore is an artist. Most people are too taken by the points Moore raises to notice how flawlessly he weaves his story together. Capitalism: A Love Story* was as gracefully executed as Kristi Yamaguchi on skates.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I thought Whaling season is over. Moore is still around. He is a moonbat on steroids. There is not one good thing you can say about the guy, NOT one! This is the same man who about a week ago on the view, told Hasselbeck that the U.S. was wrong for killing Bin Laden and that he deserved a fair trail in a civilian court. This guy is a crack up. No wonder his movies suck!

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Tigermoth,

No. There's the south. There's the deep south. And then there's Kentucky. If the racists won't get you with their guns, they'll blow you up with their meth lab.

You couldn't pay me enough to go back there. I'm sure rand paul would have loved to watch the execution. He's a big time blood lover.

That's one of the reasons I am proud to be a native Minnesotan. Minnesota hasn't had the death penalty since 1911. Clearly a progressive state.

Taka

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Taka313: "They got the wrong guy"

And you have proof of this? I'm not saying they got the right guy, I'm saying the evidence is inconclusive.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Moore was on Keith Olberman's new show yesterday and he was basically advocating organized violence against the rich. He is fat dangerous loose cannon whose views do not represent those of mainstream Democrats.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Moore was on Keith Olberman's new show yesterday and he was basically advocating organized violence against the rich.

Nobody would believe you.

Moore was on Real Time with Bill Maher tonight and on CSpan's BookTV last weekend and both times he advocated non-violence. I've never seen or heard Moore advocate violence and neither have you.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Lieberman

I thought I heard the same thing too. Olbermann still has a show?? I thought that network went out of business. I guess no body is watching it. As to why he would go to see bathtub boy boggles me and that he went on Real Time doesn't surprise me at all. Moore will go on ANY network and run his mouth just to try to stay relevant and the only way he can do that is to go on these über-liberal shows.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yabits,

My boy and the truth haven't seen each other in a LONG time.

Taka

0 ( +1 / -1 )

here is the disgusting Michael Moore in his own words. The video went online Sept22.It isn't hard to find.moore is basically threatening his fellow Americans - let's make a political deal so we don't have to resort to violence to get what we feel we deserve.

“The smart rich know they can only build the gate so high. And, and, sooner or later history proves that people when they’ve had enough aren’t going to take it anymore. And much better to deal with it nonviolently now, through the political system, than what could possibly happen in the future, which nobody wants to see,” Michael Moore said on Current TV’s “Countdown” program."

He is typical of the far left kooks and cowards, crooks and liars who have destroyed his party.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@Serrano

I'm not saying they got the right guy, I'm saying the evidence is inconclusive.

Exactly. And under any decent legal system, inconclusive evidence = acquittal. Not here though.... :(

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"have destroyed his party"

Little Freudian slip there in your efforts as passing yourself off as a Democrat these days, Oldest Bud.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lucabrasi,

Exactly. How you can any person justify terminating anothers life over inconclusive evidence.

The defenders of this execution have systematically cowered like rats from this line of questioning. I though Taka was being a bit strong the other day saying they simply like the killing, but he's got to be right.

It's some sort of a blood-sport for extreme right-wingers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's Georgia. Like Alabama and Mississippi and W Virginia and such places a look at who settled there and why the early British colonists forced their ships down there rather than letting them land in New England will explain a lot.

"Emigration from Britain, like other migrations around the world, was not random in either its origins or it destinations. Most of the Britons who migrated to colonial Massachusetts, for example, came from within a 60-mil radius of the town of Haverhill in East Anglia. The Virginia aristocracy came from different localities in southern and western England.

But

"Most of the common white people of the South came from the northern borderlands of England"for centuries a no-man's land between Scotland and England"as well as from the Scottish highland and from Ulster County, Ireland. All these fringe areas were turbulent, if not lawless, regions, where none of the contending forces were able to establish full control and create a stable order. "http://freedomkeys.com/blackrednecks.htm

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

“The smart rich know they can only build the gate so high. And, and, sooner or later history proves that people when they’ve had enough aren’t going to take it anymore. And much better to deal with it nonviolently now, through the political system, than what could possibly happen in the future, which nobody wants to see,”

Only a sick and twisted liar would report to others that Moore is advocating violence with those words. He's doing exactly the opposite.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Since Coca Cola is based in Georgia, I guess Moore is boycotting Coke too. He shouldn't be drinking that stuff anyway.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Champagne sociaist or rich right...they love coke too much to boycott.

I didn't know it grew in Georgia mind you.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

While I sometimes think Moore gets a little radical with his ways, I do respect his convictions. He is simply arguing what many across the world can plainly see: that a grave injustice was done. Troy Davis was in a no-win situation, once he was convicted of his crime; even when it came to light later that he could have been innocent. Of course, we can thank the passing of the "Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996" for that. This act forbids criminals on death row from later presenting evidence which could have been presented at their trial. Thus, this bill essentially gives an accused murderer no chance to prove his innocence.

The appeals court refused to allow Troy Davis a polygraph even though he agreed to have one. They disregarded any recanting of witness testimonies. They brushed aside any evidence or facts which may have been used to prove his innocence (or at least lack of guilt). The main point that bothers me, is that at the time of the investigation, why did the police only consider Troy Davis as the suspect? In fact, they even used another person (who could've been and should've been considered as a possible suspect) as a witness (a Mr. Redd Coles, who was a registered owner of a .38 caliber gun). It's as if they first decided who they wanted to arrest and then tried to collect only the evidence which supported that fact (while disregarding evidence which contradicted it).

Also, from as early as 1996, witnesses started recanting their stories about the crime, yet the court of Appeals disregarded their testimonies as evidence backing Troy Davis' innocence. Dorothy Ferrell, Darrell Collins, Antoine Williams, Larry Young, and Monty Holmes all stated in written affidavits that they were pressured or physically coerced by police to testify against Troy Davis. Of course, the Appeals court refused to consider any of this. They even refused to consider the fact that a weapon was never found. Nor was no physical evidence linking Mr. Davis to the crime and crime scene.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Moore: "the murderous state of Georgia"

Moore makes it sound as though all Georgians are murderers. What a buffoon.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Moore makes it sound as though all Georgians are murderers. What a buffoon.

No. It's the "State" of Georgia that murdered Troy Davis.

It is up to the people of the state who are not murderers to work to change our awful system. Those citizens of my state who support what happened share, in my opinion, the guilt of the murder of a man who would not have been convicted had the police treated the real shooter -- Redd Coles -- as suspect rather than as a witness.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

yabits - It hasn't been proven that "the real shooter" was Redd Coles. I'm not saying he isn't the real murderer, he just might be, but to call him the real shooter is as bad as calling Davis the real shooter at this point.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It hasn't been proven that "the real shooter" was Redd Coles. I'm not saying he isn't the real murderer, he just might be, but to call him the real shooter is as bad as calling Davis the real shooter at this point.

It could only have been Coles or Davis. Davis said it was Coles and vice versa.

Coles is the only one who was seen by independent witnesses to have a gun within 30 minutes of the shooting. Several witnesses have come forward in the years since the trial to confess that Coles told them he was the shooter. Coles was the one acting violently and irrationally that night, as reported by the beating victim and others.

Coles was treated by the police as their prime witness, since it was he -- the guy with the gun -- who went to the police station to report Troy Davis. Once the police accepted him as a witness -- having him lead the pre-trial re-enactment to make sure all the other witnesses stories were "straight," there was no way they were ever going to prosecute a successful death penalty case against him.

Because of their ineptitude, a man might escape that ultimate punishment for the senseless slaying of one of their own. I don't believe they have the integrity of character to accept that. The officials of the state certainly don't. They admitted that the case against Davis was not ironclad.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It hasn't been proven that "the real shooter" was Redd Coles. I'm not saying he isn't the real murderer, he just might be, but to call him the real shooter is as bad as calling Davis the real shooter at this point.

This is worth another comment:

There is a "code" on the streets of many inner cities, and two of its precepts are: 1) Do not snitch, and 2) Play or get played.

If that code was being followed -- and I have very little doubt that it was -- then Redd Coles was "playing" and not snitching when he went to the police to falsely accuse Troy Davis. Coles ended up playing Davis, the police, and the justice system of the state. For Troy Davis to have gone to the police would clearly have made him guilty of snitching, since he knew Coles was the shooter.

Coles was no model citizen and was the only one who was certainly carrying a gun that night, as reported by witnesses, 30 minutes prior to the shooting. There's enough reasonable doubt in this case to capsize a ship.

278 innocent people freed from Death Row by the Innocence Project reveal a horrendously flawed system.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'm tired of the far left loons telling me which state I must boycott.

Georgia joins Arizona,which Moore thinks is racist because they want to defend their borders.

I remember when he called for a boycott of Connecticutt back in 09 because he was angry about healthcare there.

The small but noisy LBGT crowd says we have to boycott Colorado.

The unions want you to boycott Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin.

Kentucky Fried Chincken sponsors the Kentucky Derby so the PETA radicals insist we boycott that state.

Maine has anti-gay laws according to some prominent leftists,so we are supposed to boycott Maine along with Hawaii which might oppose civil unions for gay couples.

Obama wants you to skip Vegas:"You can't go take that trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on taxpayers' dime."

NAACP wants you to boycott South Carolina.(The flag thing...)

Common Dreams (what a stupid name for a blog) wants North Carolina boycotted. It is anti-union or something.

A cynic might get the idea that a large portion of the new Left doesn't like this country...

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I'd like to see Moore boycott Saudi or Venezeualan oil....

...but that might actually impact his lavish lifestyle, so no chance of it happening.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

...but that might actually impact his lavish lifestyle

Doesn't look all that lavish to me, judging by the picture.

I suppose that being the writer-director of the most-watched documentary films of all time doesn't entitle him to a nice home in northern Michigan for his wife and family. When has he ever indicated that people who succeed in life -- as he certainly has -- can't buy a nice home?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

being the writer-director of the most-watched documentary films of all time

Doesn't mean that everyone liked his movies. A lot of people watched out of curiosity. I too, watched all his movies, not much to go on, doesn't do enough research, boring to no end. Moore can buy any home he wants or any supermarket for that matter (probably owns a couple) watching that man on TV and especially when he gets on Olbermann's show (another piece of wreck) it cracks me up that both of these guys are from the same pod, all talk and nothing to say of importance.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@DS

I would like Moore to donate more than 60% of his wealth to Obama, he's a big believer in income redistribution so I think people like him should walk the walk and talk the talk (maybe not, does too much of that already) let him go on his Progressive liberal crusade and give all his money to the needy and hopefully, he can leave the rest of us alone.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Doesn't mean that everyone liked his movies.

Gee, now there's a heluva standard. Is there any director that has ever lived whose movies were liked by everyone? I would say that the better a documentary filmmaker is the greater his/her movies will generate strong negative reactions and controversy.

doesn't do enough research

And his detractors do? Haven't seen it yet.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I would say that the better a documentary filmmaker is the greater his/her movies will generate strong negative reactions and controversy.

Usually liberals and progressives feel like that. I'm talking about the mainstream and "NO" the mainstream doesn't think like that. You like Moore Yabits, more power to you, but not everyone shares your views on Moore and that's OK, you don't need to prop him up, he's doing a nifty job all on his own to make himself look more foolish day by day, which in actuality is the funny part of Moore.

And his detractors do? Haven't seen it yet.

You're probably not looking hard enough, try harder.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Usually liberals and progressives feel like that. I'm talking about the mainstream...

We "feel" like that because we read and understand history, even the parts that the "mainstream" says we all can do without. No liberal ever pushed to get books removed from libraries. Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etc. have not had the lives of themselves and their families threatened, or been physically attacked, the way Moore has been.

You're probably not looking hard enough, try harder.

I can't read your mind. Why not provide one example of a conservative-leaning documentary that was better researched than Moore's films? I see right-wingers all the time making comments on Moore's "twisting" of facts but they never seem to provide any examples of it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Moore is a masterful film maker. He has great talent.

But by no means is what he does "documentary" filmmaking. It is agenda driven muckraking.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But by no means is what he does "documentary" filmmaking. It is agenda driven muckraking.

Sure it is.

In Sicko, Moore actually spent a good deal of time in the countries whose medical delivery systems conservatives merely apply apocryphal and anecdotal tales to.

Moore expects his audience to be familiar with the right-wing propaganda and fear-mongering that's out there, and he lances it very nicely.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

SuperLib: "My opposition go the death penalty can be documented on just about every death penalty thread since I joined JT."

To be fair, indeed you have, and I respect that and was not insinuating you feel otherwise. What I WAS saying is that your comments on Moore are unfounded because you really don't know what he's thinking. Maybe the man is genuinely outraged, as much, much of the American and international community was, about the case, and so sales were not first and foremost in his mind when he voiced his opinion. He gets a podium for his opinions based on previous fame, it doesn't mean he does not stand behind what he says.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

DS: "But by no means is what he does "documentary" filmmaking. It is agenda driven muckraking."

Yes and no. I have read a couple of his books and I always feel like the first half is objective, factual information, but then in the second half of the book he goes on personal spiels and asks everyone to vote for Ralph Nader (or what have you). It's his right, of course, but it undermines his arguments. His movies, though, don't usually incorporate this as much -- they present a lot of facts, and yes, in a 'masterful' way.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What I WAS saying is that your comments on Moore are unfounded because you really don't know what he's thinking.

You could make that case about anyone and everyone opinions.

His movies, though, don't usually incorporate this as much -- they present a lot of facts, and yes, in a 'masterful' way.

Define masterful.

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Also a perfect example of his documentaries using "facts" to present an argument in which he purposely misleads the audience is the Heston's "cold dead hands" speech he gave.

Michael Moore has some good ideas and principles but his way of advertising or presenting them leave much to be desired.

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We "feel" like that because we read and understand history, even the parts that the "mainstream" says we all can do without. No liberal ever pushed to get books removed from libraries. Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etc. have not had the lives of themselves and their families threatened, or been physically attacked, the way Moore has been.

Always thinking like an elitist. This is so typical of liberals thinking that they are mentally and spiritually superior than anything else on this planet. I'm not going to and don't need to banter with long boring accolades to prove countless points, but I am hearing liberal contradiction starting to work its way into the conversation. People like George Soros and politicians like Maurice Hinchey and Bernie Sanders and celebrities like Danny Glover, Sean Penn, Jane Fonda and many other moonbats wanted to introduce the Fairness Doctrine in order to control and even silence conservatives from speaking out on issues that might be offensive or influential to the masses. Please don't give me the "we are holier than thou act!"You seem to forget the "Media Ownership Reform Act" wanting to push the FCC to control how conservatives present media coverage and don't get me started on personal and physical attacks. Union thugs, liberal protesters, like I said, I don't want to go to far off topic, but for you to openly say that conservatives have not been targeted and attacked like Moore has been is totally ridiculous! Did you forget how many people wanted and still want to physically attack Bush and Cheney? That's all I have to say about that, don't make it as if Moore is the most important person in the U.S., he is clearly not.

Now, I do think that Moore has the potential of being a decent director, however, his progressive, shallow minded political views are just too poisonous.

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Also a perfect example of his documentaries using "facts" to present an argument in which he purposely misleads the audience is the Heston's "cold dead hands" speech he gave.

Huh? You're going to have to explain that one. I'll bet you are one of those who didn't get the point.

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This is so typical of liberals thinking that they are mentally and spiritually superior than anything else on this planet.

A person who does not want to ban any books is definitely superior to those who take on the uber-superior attitude of "protecting" people from certain ideas and books.

I don't want to go to far off topic, but for you to openly say that conservatives have not been targeted and attacked like Moore has been is totally ridiculous!

Several members of Moore's ex-Navy Seal detachment of bodyguards have been injured in the line of protecting him from those who wanted to stab or otherwise harm him. There is a world of difference from someone who says they "want" to attack a person and someone who actually attempts to carry out an attack. A world of difference.

don't make it as if Moore is the most important person in the U.S., he is clearly not.

Never said anything of the kind. Moore represents the kind of free American whose message some right-wingers hate so much that they completely forget what it truly means to be an American. In that sense, Moore and his work are quite important.

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Huh? You're going to have to explain that one. I'll bet you are one of those who didn't get the point.

You'll first have to explain to me what the point is, that I supposedly didn't get, before I can clarify it for you.

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"Filmmaker Moore demands Georgia boycott"

Is this guy even serious? Why to propose things, which are impossible? Is it some kind of populism?

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You'll first have to explain to me what the point is...

When you wrote the following:

Also a perfect example of his documentaries using "facts" to present an argument in which he purposely misleads the audience is the Heston's "cold dead hands" speech he gave.

....were you purposely trying to mislead readers?

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...were you purposely trying to mislead readers?

In what way was I trying to mislead readers? I'm failing to see the point that I supposedly missed that Moore was trying to make. What was the point that Moore was trying to make regarding the Heston speech? Do you not know how Moore mislead his audience regarding that Heston speech?

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A person who does not want to ban any books is definitely superior to those who take on the uber-superior attitude of "protecting" people from certain ideas and books.

That is your subjective opinion and you are entitled to believe that.

Several members of Moore's ex-Navy Seal detachment of bodyguards have been injured in the line of protecting him from those who wanted to stab or otherwise harm him. There is a world of difference from someone who says they "want" to attack a person and someone who actually attempts to carry out an attack. A world of difference.

Nope not true. If so, then why are there severe penalties for attempted murder or shooting. Most of the time these are serious accusations that people take seriously. So in essence, they are indeed quite the same thing.

free American whose message some right-wingers hate so much that they completely forget what it truly means to be an American. In that sense, Moore and his work are quite important

The same can be said about Coulter or Palin steaming up the left, if you want to make that type of analogy.

Point is; If Moore is really serious, then let him really and I mean really do something to shake the foundation of America, he's got the money and a bit of clout. Anyone can be a blow-heart! Let Moore tackle some real issues and put his money instead of his big mouth into a serious reality, I like to see him in Africa or in capitol hill and stop whining so much. I don't think Moore is an evil person, but I do think that he is naive for getting involved in situations that he honestly can't really do anything about except what he does best and that is being a hinder to society. IMHO

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Do you not know how Moore mislead his audience regarding that Heston speech?

No. I don't.

That's why I've asked you to tell me when you started off by making that statement.

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That is your subjective opinion and you are entitled to believe that.

Really? I thought book-banning was the stuff of totalitarian regimes. I mean the libraries in my neighborhood in the USA had an "adult" section where small kids were no likely to be found, but nobody was out there trying to prevent kids from reading books like Huckleberry Finn.

I believe any objective person -- American or otherwise -- would agree that a self-styled panel of "concerned citizens" who set out to dictate what ideas and books others can have access to in a public library is a grossly inferior group to the liberals fighting for the free exchange of information. If you can't accept that, I pity you.

The same can be said about Coulter or Palin steaming up the left, if you want to make that type of analogy.

Coulter does not need a contingent of bodyguards to protect her safety, nor does Palin. That they might choose to have personal security does not detract from the fact that no one has been injured in the course of protecting either from personal harm -- the way Moore's bodyguards have - on more than one occasion.

Point is; If Moore is really serious, then let him really and I mean really do something to shake the foundation of America,

I believe his current references to the "Takeover Wall Street" movement may do just that. That movement may just be the genuine "peoples' movement" that fundamentally changes US society. And you don't see it anywhere on the so-called mainstream media.

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@Lieberman

Kentucky Fried Chincken sponsors the Kentucky Derby so the PETA radicals insist we boycott that state.

Something wrong here. Are you suggesting that if McDonald's sponsored the Kentucky Derby, PETA would be happy?

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Back on topic please.

I do find it amusing when a wealthy celebrity talks about the 'evil rich'. Sort of like a Stalinist talking about those 'evil Nazis'.

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There is a "code" on the streets of many inner cities, and two of its precepts are: 1) Do not snitch, and 2) Play or get played.

This was not some episode from The Wire. It was real life.The corrupt and corrupting State abused its powers, taking that which it had no right to take.

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Few people care what Michael Moore thinks. I find it funny that Moore wants to pull his book from the bookstores. It's a book that few people are buying so maybe this is a way for Moore to explain the lack of sales.

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It's a book that few people are buying so maybe this is a way for Moore to explain the lack of sales

What "best sellers" list are you using to make that statement? Yes, Moore's book is not selling well on the "Coloring Books for Deliverance Banjo Babies" list, I will admit. But it is in the Top 20 of the most popular non-fiction lists that most literate Americans refer to.

I would imagine a great many writers would love to land a book in the Top 20 during its first week out.

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I do find it amusing when a wealthy celebrity talks about the 'evil rich'. Sort of like a Stalinist talking about those 'evil Nazis'.

So, when a "bad" person refers to other bad people, he knows what he's talking about, right? That's what your logic seems to indicate.

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Boycotting another city/state/region due to their political views is insanely counter productive. Do they expect Georgia voters to respond by voting in candidates opposed to capital punishment? Because at best, Georgia voters just won't take note. At worst, Georgia voters will feel threatened and get more entrenched in their views. The same can be said for Arizona. Calling for a boycott amounts to nothing more than political grandstanding.

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Boycotting another city/state/region due to their political views is insanely counter productive. Do they expect Georgia voters to respond by voting in candidates opposed to capital punishment?

I dunno. Speaking as a resident of Georgia and someone who votes in every election, I wouldn't say all the attention directed at my state's often-corrupt, good-old-boy government functions is going to be counter-productive.

After all, we're not too far out of the living memory of some where people would attend and treat a lynching as though it was a festive occasion -- complete with picnic dinners on the lawn and a photographer to take souvenir pictures of the burned or strangled corpse to use as postcards. Some folks here remember those as "the good old days."

Nearly everyone born and raised in Georgia -- and a lot of us "interlopers" -- knows of the Mary Phagan-Leo Frank story. We're approaching the centennial of the tragic murder and its even more tragic aftermath. The reason that Georgia's governor can not grant clemency goes back to that case: when an innocent man was framed (and convicted by a jury) for a murder he didn't commit by the very person who committed the crime. The then-governor of Georgia was so persuaded that a terrible injustice had been done that he commuted Frank's sentence to life. Well, the wonderful "law-abiding" civic leaders of Cobb County hatched a plan and drove halfway across the state to the prison where Frank was held, stormed it in order to kidnap him, and drove him all the way back to Cobb County where they lynched him.

Over 50 years passed until the state of Georgia granted Frank a posthumous pardon. A young boy -- who had witnessed the murder had kept silent because the killer threatened to take vengeance on him and his family if he told anything -- finally came forward after many decades to tell what he saw. But the case had plenty of discrepancies even without the boy's testimony.

Yeah, we've got a really proud legal tradition to uphold here in Georgia. And, yeah, we need all the outside help we can get. Georgia's motto is "Wisdom, Justice and Moderation." All three are in very short supply in these parts.

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Master propagandist.Plays fast and loose with the facts but ya gotta love him all the same.

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