Finland, Sweden submit NATO membership application

Shouldn't the tile have "....under duress" added? Whether it's Putin or NATO, doesn't matter. Especially for Finland who in 1917 declared a permanent neutrality, it's a sad day indeed.

Obviously, people don't matter anymore, supply chains, money chains matters most now.

hello from Turkey...

it will be not easy to join...and yes still be ready for consequences from Russia.

it will be not easy to join...and yes still be ready for consequences from Russia.

Sabre rattling, outdated hacking and ridiculous propaganda. I’m sure they’re shaking in their boots.

Especially for Finland who in 1917 declared a permanent neutrality, it's a sad day indeed.

Things change. Only a fool would believe in a permanent state of anything.

Improvise and adapt to survive.

Go Sweden! Yes! Putin created a nightmare for Russia now.

Bob FosseToday 04:07 pm JST

it will be not easy to join...and yes still be ready for consequences from Russia.

Sabre rattling, outdated hacking and ridiculous propaganda. I’m sure they’re shaking in their boots.

///

well mate i am sure you have no idea what it may follow....

well mate i am sure you have no idea what it may follow....

But you do? Read it on a dodgy blog? Do share.

it will be not easy to join...and yes still be ready for consequences from Russia.

Are those consequences from Russia worse than what has happened to Ukraine?

All Scandinavians to be same school, that's good! NATO wasn't made to confront Russia or former USSR --The real mean of this organization is to all NATO countries not fight each other. And it was good Russia not to belong to NATO or Putin would betray the treat and invade countries to annex countries to his regime...Turkey is in a difficult position if leave NATO, I remember Turkey having military coup against Erdogan. And it will be much easier Putin regime to overthrow Erdogan to put a pro-Russian puppet government.

So Putin's reckless venture into Ukraine did bring about some good. Welcome Finland and Sweden.

Throw Turkey out of NATO if they block others.

it's a sad day indeed.

a sad day was when Russia invaded Ukraine & commenced killing & destruction

Finland who in 1917 declared a permanent neutrality

putin & several Russian ministers who in January & February declared that Russia had no intention to attack Ukraine

What a joyous day for Finland and Sweden who are moving to secure their peoples safety into the future. This necessary move sends a message that they will not be isolated and turned into Russian targets in the future and they stand side to side with greater European nations in solidarity.

A firm statement for peace.

So, Ireland needed a referendum for same sex marriage, UK needed a referendum to leave the EU, and yet these countries aren't going to have one for what will be a very very important decision. Perhaps they're scared the majority don't want to join? If not, what's the problem?

This necessary move sends a message that they will not be isolated and turned into Russian targets in the future and they stand side to side with greater European nations in solidarity.

Joining NATO, or even just talking about it, is what will turn their countries into targets. Why are they doing it? What is in it for them (the leaders)?

these countries aren't going to have one

I’ve never heard of a country having a referendum regarding national security.

Wow. Big news indeed. Never expected this, but its far from a surprising turn of events. Putin has destroyed Russia's reputation and political standing, and there will be repercussions for decades. It is all very sad.

is what will turn their countries into targets

false !

not being a nato country makes you a target - ask Georgia, Belarus, Azerbaijan & Ukraine

Why are they doing it?

it’s not rocket science - safety in numbers.

If Putin is stupid enough to attack Finland now, he will feel the collective wrath of every nato member

Joining NATO, or even just talking about it, is what will turn their countries into targets. Why are they doing it? What is in it for them (the leaders)?

And just who is going to target 32 nations for attack? Anybody? Nope, none.

They are clearly doing it to secure their peaceful futures. What is in it for them is peace. The alternative is Ukraine. Isolated, bullied, separatists incited to cleave territory away and invasion.

This is their right to apply to join this defensive alliance. To those thinking it is a mistake, why on earth is collective peace a mistake? What is to be gained by remaining alone and vulnerable?

Would you call it a mistake if they applied to join CSTO, the Russian version of NATO?

I wish they had explained the Turkey thing but I guess putting on a brave face for the propaganda value is important.

Turkey will not accept either unless they first reject Kurdish independence/autonomy, shut down and expel several Kurdish groups operating and supported in those countries.

It is going to be interesting to see if these two countries are ready to sell their souls for NATO membership. But the other factor is if Turkey doesn't block membership will Russia through proxy help arm Kurds and help boost the independence fight this is a big concern for Turkey.

Throw Turkey out of NATO if they block others.

Wow that would be funny.

Turkey is the only link to Europe getting gas from the middle East.

So kick Turkey out it becomes friendly with Russia and together they turn off all fuel to Europe.

Oh don't forget the only way out for Russia's black Sea fleet is via Turkey, no NATO no reason to block Russia's fleet.

Hey Vlad, you know that invasion you started over two months ago that you expected to end within a week?

The one that you hoped would tear apart NATO as the European countries that relied on your energy would break with the US and the UK?

The one where you expected only minimal casualties?

Well, as I'm sure you're aware, your invasion failed and the Ukrainians are now launching offensive operations against you...

You've lost over 30K troops and over 20 senior officers killed...and your tanks have a big problem separating their turrets when hit...

You're proud flagship Moskva is collecting rust at the bottom of the Black Sea...

And NATO has been re-energized and Finland and Sweden will contribute around 1 million new troops to the pact....

Since you speak German, I'm sure you know the word "Schadenfreude"....

Turkey for dinner anyone?

Joining NATO, or even just talking about it, is what will turn their countries into targets. Why are they doing it? What is in it for them (the leaders)?

I’ll explain it again for those absent from previous lessons: What’s in it for them is becoming part of NATO’s mutual defense pact.

I don’t know why people continue to misunderstand the difference between Putin attacking Ukraine and Putin attacking a country afforded protection by NATO. But I’ll reiterate for the hard of hearing and the thick of skull.

Russia has attacked/militarily subverted numerous countries since the Soviet Union bit the dust. Moldova, Georgia, Syria, and Ukraine on two separate occasions. And while that does show that Russia is more than willing to use military force to enforce its global agenda, you need to look at what all those countries have in common - None of these countries were part of mutual defense pacts.

No one came to their rescue because no one was obligated to. Sure, other countries sent money and material, but nothing more. Ukraine is getting about the maximum amount of aid a non-aligned country could hope to get. Had it been a part of NATO, the situation would be much, MUCH different. Had Ukraine been a part of NATO, the US wouldn’t just be sending drones and Javelins. It would be full scale war. World War 3. NATO vs Russia. And while NATO vs the Warsaw Pact in the 60s were pretty evenly matched, Russia is a pathetic shadow of its former self. Look how piss-poorly their supposed superpower military is acquitting itself against a single former colony. And people think it would stand a chance against the most powerful military alliance in earth? Of course not. While a full scale war would be devastating to all involved, the winners and losers are a foregone conclusion.

What’s more, this war has shown just how isolated Russia truly is. We’ve heard for years about Russia and China being thick as thieves, but you know what you AREN’T seeing? You aren’t seeming military and economic aid flowing from Beijing to Moscow like you are from Washington and Brussels to Kyiv. Why? Because while Xi Jinping is a despot, he’s also a realist. While he might be aligned with Putin ideologically, he is much more deeply entwined with the US and Europe than he is with Russia. He stands to lose far more than he could ever hope to gain by standing with his pal Putin. So he won’t. He’ll say some platitudes and give token assistance but that’s it.

Ultimately, to answer the question “What do they have to gain?”, I’ll ask another question. “When was the last time a NATO nation was attacked?” Answer the second question and you’ll have answered the first.

You've lost over 30K troops and over 20 senior officers killed...and your tanks have a big problem separating their turrets when hit...

I will agree the invasion didn't go as sauce on Fries expected but if you believe the hype and propaganda from Ukraine and western media you are fooling yourself.

Just yesterday 260 Ukrainian soldiers"Rescued" From Mariupol Azov steel works.

That is the narrative from most western media.

Reality was 260 wounded Ukrainian soldiers surrendered to Russia and are POWs in a Russian hospital.

Just like here Finland and Sweden will be in NATO and the downplaying of Turkey's objections.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has expressed reservations about Finland and Sweden joining.

What a way of avoiding the reality Tayyip Erdogan literally said he wouldn't support it he didn't say "reservations" he said NO unless they do a 180° on the Kurdish issue before.

I would like unbias reporting but obviously this isn't going to happen on either side.

I called it.

The last holdouts in Mariupol surendered and Ukraine is trying to negotiate a prisoner exchange.

Only one problem, Ukraine said it was putting Captured Russia soldiers on trial just last week.

Well I called it, said it was a bad idea to announce that and now Russians are demanding the Azov battalion members be put on trial in Russia.

I said this would happen.

Next Russia will make Turkey an offer to block Finland and Sweden.

Joining NATO, or even just talking about it, is what will turn their countries into targets. Why are they doing it? 

You answered your own question. If “just talking about it” puts you in jeopardy from a powerful neighbor then an alliance with others is the smart play. NATO borders are the red line.

@Eastman what consequences from Russia? Putin is pretty much done what ever power he had is not powder dust in the wind. Only a fool will want to destroy themselves, if he set off nukes and other countries do the same no one wins!!! Russia status in the world fell like snow flakes that dissolve once they hit the ground. The best thing for the country Russia to do is get rid of that Rabid guy or else the country will be totally pushed in a corner!