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Fireworks fly as Clinton, Sanders meet in 1st one-on-one debate of campaign

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By NANCY BENAC and LISA LERER

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He said that when a “kid gets caught with marijuana, that kid has a police record.” But when “a Wall Street executive destroys the economy” and pays a $5 billion settlement, he has no criminal record.

I love this guy

10 ( +11 / -1 )

"I’ve got their number,” she said, “the Wall Street guys.”

I can imagine she calls or texts them on a regular basis.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

You and me both FizzBit!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Hes basically going on about the same things as Obama was. Politicians wont get anything done no matter how many promises they make.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

There's a big, big 400 Kg elephant in the room. There's a lot of talk about the Women Vote, or the Youth Vote. But the elephant is....the African-American primary vote which habitually turns out for Democratic primaries.

Hillary has outperformed Sanders markedly in this group in Iowa, and nationally it's about 70/30 in favor of Hillz. Yeah, there are few African-Americans in Iowa, and even fewer in New Hampshire, but even if Bernie takes NH next week, and takes it big time, what comes next? Nevada, where Hillary's ground game is looking good, and then? That's right. South Carolina. Alabama. Arkansas. Georgia, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Virginia. Deep South, folks, where the wishy-washy college vote matters far less than rallying registered African Americans. You simply HAVE to win this section of the base in order to win the Democratic nomination: it's as simple as that.

In 2008, Hillary lost South Carolina, and handily, in large part because she was running against Obama. But this year, it's Hillary (and her husband, dubbed by Toni Morrison way back when as "The First African American President.") Put a Clinton, any Clinton, against a 74 year old Jewish American from the second whitest state in the Union, and Hillary looks set to win big. Now, I'm no fan of identity politics, and I'd like to be proven wrong, but believe it or not, such things really do matter a lot to African-American voters, or so they've claimed in decades worth of polls and clearly demonstrated during 2008.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Great debate.

Jimizo: classic.

Now, I'm no fan of identity politics, and I'd like to be proven wrong, but believe it or not, such things really do matter a lot to African-American voters,

Hillary is...not black. Sanders is...not black. HRC has a proven track record of working with the 'black community" while Sanders doesn't. Because Sanders is, in the same way I am, a Marxist. In the sense that it is all about $$$. Who has it. Who don't. Who call's the shots. Who suffers. Th-th-th-that's all folks.

Now, here's the deal: many blacks on the Left think: OK, let's say we get all the $$ the same as whites and everyone else, is that gonna make us equal? And, looking at our society, at history, at racism, they answer, Hell no.

And I see their point. Money goes a long way, but it don't change the legacy and current affliction of bigotry based on race as weilded against black Americans. [Note: blacks can and are just as bigoted as whites. They just can't harm us the same way. That is what they mean by institutional racism. ie. American history}

And that is where Sanders and me do not connect to black activists Democrats.

And HRC does, 'cause she's all about poltiking, about working within politcal realities and moving the needle.

It is that difference that splits Bernie and she.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@ pointofview

Hes basically going on about the same things as Obama was. Politicians wont get anything done no matter how many promises they make.

Of course there's always a chance you're right, but Sanders has a long and proven progressive track record. Obama didn't and ended up playing it safe and down the center. I'm hopeful that Sanders won't let progressives down if given the chance.

@ BNlightened

Clinton's tough to beat there for sure, but Sanders actually has a long history of supporting the civil rights movement too. Hopefully, it'll get more exposure in the coming months and convince more black voters.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

JTDanMan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you're playing a race card. And here's my evidence: You say that having equal pay for both whites and blacks will not matter, because whites are racist and even if blacks rise to the same income level, they will never be treated as equals.

And, looking at our society, at history, at racism, they answer, Hell no.

WHAT! Are you even from the US? That is so much bullshit! I usually just write "BS" but your comment has really pissed me off. You're either too young to understand, or really haven't moved around the US to know better.

Oh wait...you're a black activist? OK. I can't understand your example of institutionalized racism. My understanding is that it's cultural, and has nothing to do with whether you're poor or rich.

As far as your points about HRC, all I have to say is that she, and her husband Bill, is the worst thing that ever happened to the black population. Why? Because they are politicians, and it's pass time to trust them, any of them!

And as far as comparing HRC with Sanders, "political realities?" HRC is an establishment big banker wall street MIC hack. You should expect NO change under her leadership.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

It feels like Bernie is asking the American people how they want to shape their future. Hillary wants to tell people how she'll shape their future. I welcome having a voice in government again.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I liked this version better:

"I find it very strange that a major financial institution (Goldman Sachs) that pays $5 billion in fines for breaking the laws, not one of their executives is prosecuted while kids who smoke marijuana get a jail sentence."

But of course that just socialist talk, not really meant for me.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Can't wait to get home and watch the debate.

I second the reminder of Bernie Sanders long record of fighting for civil rights. Hopefully Bernie will finally get fair mainstream news coverage, because up until last week he had been virtually ignored. Once more regular Americans learn about him he just might give Hilary a run for her money!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Both should be sent to the moon.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

I've just watched some of this debate. Bernie Sanders ( a politician ) actually comes across as, and I hesitate to use this word about a politician, genuine. Maybe this is relative to Wall Street arse-kissers, slimy Jesus-lovers, self-promoting loudmouths and genuine lunatics, but I was impressed.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Neither of these two will want to stop the war machine. They will never get my vote. Sure Bernie might WANT to go after the bankers, but seeing that it is the Kingdom of Mordor, only an outsider can save the day. Go Trump!

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Watched/listened to a bit of this carnival sideshow on CSPAN while getting ready for work this morning. To this moderate voter, it sounded like Sanders and Mrs. Bill Clinton were arguing about which of them is the bigger "progressive". That's like arguing who is more ignorant.

So, who came away victorious? Sanders? Or, did Mrs. Bill Clinton win by yet another "coin toss"?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

To this moderate voter, it sounded like Sanders and Mrs. Bill Clinton were arguing about which of them is the bigger "progressive". That's like arguing who is more ignorant.

FDR was probably the most progressive president in US history. He was so effective and popular that he was elected to a forth term. Funny that you throw out the word ignorant...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

MrBum, I doubt A&M understands "FDR." You should call him "Mr. Eleanor Roosevelt."

7 ( +7 / -0 )

'I can imagine she calls or texts them on a regular basis.'... I'm certain she would use some sort of secure server...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Mrs. Bill Clinton"

Based on a similar principle, how to you refer to fellow Texan Jeb Bush?

FDR was a famous and distinguished 'progressive' I know in Texas a 'fireside chat' means laughing while someone ignites a fart but he's worth looking up.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I wish I were in these debates. Bernie missed an easy one to the “I’ve got their number" line. He should have said, "Yeah, the dialing-for-dollars number."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Mrs. Bill Clinton"

Look no further to see that even the extreme right see through the haze of insanity that Secretary Clinton will more than likely be the next POTUS.

They're simply dropping racism for sexism.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Fizzbit

Thanks for your post. In reply,

-- I don't know what you mean by "playing the race card," so I can't agree or disagree with you there. Please explain.

-- I was framing the leftist Black critique as I understand it. Namely, there is more than just wealth going on. I think I made it clear that I primarily see things in terms of who controls wealth and power, and who doesn't. I think to the extent race is related to class in our country, race is a factor. It is less so now than it was a generation ago, where Jim Crow was alive and well.

Regardless, both leftist blacks and I agree that race is still a big factor; ignoring it as well. If that is 'playing the race card,' then, yes, I 'played the race card.' It appears you equate appreciating the role and legacy of White Supremacy in the way America works as "playing the race card." It seems to me that excluding how race has been used by whites to oppress blacks is 'playing the race card;" its a strategy of taking a discussion of race off the table. Which is, as you say, 'Bullshit."

The United States of America has yet to apologize to black Americans for chattel slavery. It was not legal for a white and a black to marry in many states until 1968. Redlining happens right now.

Do you really think what is happening in Flint MI would happen to a white suburban community?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“I’ve got their number,” she said, “the Wall Street guys.”

Now, y'all know I like HRC, and lean Sanders, but...Does anyone, and I mean anyone, believe this?

(Great one liner, there, Jimizo)

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Hillary Clinton accused Bernie Sanders Thursday night of subjecting her to an “artful smear”

Pointing out that Hillary is in the tank for Wall Street is not a smear. It's a fact. Greedy hedge fund managers did not pay her nearly three quarters of a million dollars for a few half hour speeches knowing that she has her eye on running for president just to hear her inspiring Socialist economic ideas. She is corrupt.

I tell you what is a smear though. Calling women that were sexually assaulted by her husband 'nuts and sluts'. Now that is a smear.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Calling women that were sexually assaulted by her husband 'nuts and sluts'. Now that is a smear.

Hey, hey, my, my. Right wing lies will never die.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Google 'nuts and sluts'

https://www.google.com/#q=%27nuts+and+sluts%27

http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2015/07/30/why-do-bill-and-hillary-clinton-still-get-a-pass-n2032156/page/full

Why Do Bill and Hillary Clinton Still Get a Pass? - Larry Elder | Jul 30, 2015

... The late Barbara Olson, in "Hell To Pay," describes Hillary Clinton as the ringleader behind the "nuts or sluts" strategy employed to malign the various women who alleged having had an affair with Bill. Hitchens' book makes a similar claim.

But as to Broaddrick's allegation, apparently only one national reporter, Sam Donaldson, ever asked Bill Clinton about the charge. To Donaldson's question, Clinton said, in effect, talk to my lawyer. As to Hillary, it does not appear that a reporter has ever asked her about Broaddrick's allegation.

Bill Cosby is not an ex-president, and his wife is not running to become president. Donald Trump wants the job. Bill Clinton used to be president. His wife wants the job.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/08/hillary-clinton-refuses-to-apologize-for-laughing-about-12-year-old-rape-victim-she-maligned-in-court/

Hillary Clinton Refuses To Apologize For Laughing About 12-Year-Old Rape Victim She Maligned In Court

http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-hillary-tapes/

The Hillary Tapes - Clinton tells of defense of child rapist in newly unearthed recordings - June 15, 2014

... According to court documents, the prosecution’s case was based on testimony from the 12-year-old girl and the two male witnesses as well as on a “pair of men’s undershorts taken from the defendant herein.”

In a July 28, 1975, court affidavit, Clinton wrote that she had been informed the young girl was “emotionally unstable” and had a “tendency to seek out older men and engage in fantasizing.”

“I have also been told by an expert in child psychology that children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experiences and that adolescents in disorganized families, such as the complainant’s, are even more prone to exaggerate behavior,” Clinton said.

Clinton said the child had “in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body” and that the girl “exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way.”

But the interview reveals that an error by the prosecution would render unnecessary these attacks on the credibility of a 12-year-old rape victim. ...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Black Sabbath

Hey, hey, my, my. Right wing lies will never die.

Lies? Where have you been the last 25 years - meditating on the top of Fuji-san? Hillary's attacks on many of Bill's sexual assault and harassment victims are very well known. Have you not yet figured out what the meaning of the word "is" is? The Left just refuses to accept that their hero's can do any wrong. Just face it, if an inspirational cancer survivor like Lance Armstrong can turn out to be a lying cheater, so can a couple of self-serving, greedy, and power-hungry politicians. In the Clinton's case, you get two for one!

@turbosat

Google 'nuts and sluts'

Thanks turbosat. But you know what they say, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink." Or in this case "think". Based on her actions (and not her words) Hillary is the war on women.

The thing that amazes me is that a far Left Socialist like Sanders is beginning to overtake Hillary despite the many so called "Progressives" that worship at the feet of the Left's political establishment in America. A new Quinnipiac poll has Clinton and Sanders neck-and-neck nationwide.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/268362-sanders-tied-with-clinton-nationwide-poll

Just wait until the FBI get's done with Hillary's national security transgressions. They will have to frog-march her out of her campaign bus. Unless of course the law does not apply to the wealthy and well-connected.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

JTDanMan

OK, let me start off by saying that...yes...racism in the US is alive and definitely institutionalized racism. The US is...unfortunately...one big corporation. We will never have the country we desire until the empire crumbles. Still, everyone gets along in their jobs, works together, eats lunch together, has BBQ's together, and most don't concern themselves with this deep stuff. You were saying that only HRC is the most viable candidate for President for the black community. And I am saying you're being fooled.

Blacks are roughly 12-15% of the US population. So equating their wants and needs with the white population, on an equal status, to me, is playing the race card. Blacks are in the minority, the laws protect the minority, but expecting an equal voice is playing the race card. IMO, Fight and protect your communities, vote for people who will honestly represent you. But Hillary Clinton is the worst choice. She really don't give shit about the average. I guess that's my point.

Oh...and on a side note, Marxist's don't believe in private property. I find it hard to believe that you are a Marxist. Labeling Sanders as a Marxist has troll properties.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wolfie

Evidently you don't understand the difference between an allegation and a conviction. Clinton was never found guilty of anything. But, somehow, you know what happened. Good to know, as a conservative, you believe in the rule of law.

Fizzy

If I may...

So equating their wants and needs with the white population, on an equal status, to me, is playing the race card.

I don't really understand what you mean. I think playing the race card means accusing others of racism in order to score some debate/political point. I don't see how identifying and understanding how white supremacy worked and continues to work is playing the race card.

It seems to me, and many on the left, that Danman has a point: people (on the right) try to downplay or dismiss any discussion of race by bleating "Oh, there they go again, with their playing the race card." Perhaps what you mean is you thing blacks and their allies have overplayed the race card.

Well, that is really the difference between those of us on the left, and you. To extend your analogy, everyone does not 'get along' because blacks have been and continue to be systematically discriminated against.

So, I think to underscore that point, I'll repeat the question asked above:

Do you honestly think what is happening in Flint would happen in a white suburb? If you can't or won't answer that question, it seems obvious that you do not get it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@BS

Evidently you don't understand the difference between an allegation and a conviction. Clinton was never found guilty of anything.

So you are telling me that Bush did not lie about WMD? He was never convicted was he.

Clinton hasn't been found guilty because the politically powerful and connected are rarely held accountable for anything. Sanders was right about the influence of Wall Street and lobbyists on politicians. It is nothing less than legalized vote buying. Few if any politicians have ever taken more from the hedge fund managers than Clinton.

Hillary is under criminal investigation by the FBI. Just from what is public her crimes are way worse than anything Gen. Petreus or Scooter Libby have done. I just hope that when the FBI handcuffs and frog marches her from her campaign headquarters that it will be shown on live television during prime time. If Obama and the AG intercede and let her off the hook it will just provide further proof of the Obama administrations lawlessness.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Black Sabbath: Do you honestly think what is happening in Flint would happen in a white suburb?

There are lots of white suburbs with similar problems.

Do you think when public servants decide to screw around with their constituents they do a race check first?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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