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© Copyright 2020 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Chinese authorities take control of U.S. consulate in Chengdu
By SAM McNEIL CHENGDU, China©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
78 Comments
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Joe Blow
You can hate Trump till the cows come home but no other US politician would have stood up to China. It's so good to finally see somebody, anybody, do it.
onedragon
China is ill, and it goes much deeper than the corona virus!
yakyak
China’s History on Human Rights
What China Cannot Buy They Steal
You cannot put that on Trump or Biden, only China.
Monty
China maintains consulates in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago and New York in addition to its embassy in Washington.
Close them all!
CS
Filthy dirty government that is China. Monty agreed, CLOSE THEM ALL!!
CS
Usually thats always the case.
Peter Wright
Close them all, China does not deserve to be on the same boat with the democratic world. Communism is evil and CCP represents the worst of it. It is despotic tyranny. Just go and google who is the biggest mass murderer in the history of mankind. No wonder it is a "chairman" which China praises as their founding father. What can you expect from such a nation?
Vanessa Carlisle
Some people are going to have difficulty deciding who the boogeyman is here.
Ricky Kaminski13
Wonder if The American embassy staff were busy burning documents before their shut down. This lot will be lucky to leave the country safely. Wouldn’t put it past the CCP to arrest them and hold them hostage for political leverage. Espionage!! ;p
We are witness a little piece of history here folks. One team is playing chess, the other is playing Go! Both think the other is playing their game. Watch this space, for it will shape our times.
RationalReader
China cannot feed itself. Stop food imports.
WilliB
LandOfTheLost
Well yes, it is "actual Communism" in the way a communist one party rule always works out in real life. I know it is not paradisic final state for mankind described in the religious literature, but I think most people prefer to look at real life rather than at fiction.
Chad Inman
Maybe China can go take control of all the counterfeit shops littered all over Beijing and Shanghai. They only seem to care when it's THEIR intellectual property being threatened.
WilliB
linconman
You are comparing the "Trump Store" to the likes of Walmart and Target? Are you serious?
NCIS Reruns
Next, why not up the ante and declare a complete trade embargo between the US and China? Within 18 months Americans will be clad in rags and barefoot and Walmart, Target and all the other big box stores will be shuttered. Likewise for the Apple stores peddling iPhones and iPads. The law of unintended consequences is rather unforgiving.
Mark
For so many years the Chinese spy agents took full advantage of the west openness and freedom of movement, NOT any more the west has finally woken up.
Strangerland
China: The USA is evil
USA: China is evil
The rest of the world: Yes.
Desert Tortoise
"China: The USA is evil
USA: China is evil
The rest of the world: Yes."
If you cannot tell the huge difference between the USA and PRC you are hopelessly blind. For better or worse, but mostly for the better, we elect our leaders and are free to criticize them. As such large proportions of the US population have a vested stake in their government and take it very seriously. In China nobody has any say in how they are ruled and have no stake in their government's success. To quote my relatives in China: "The government does what it wants and I do what I want". According to Chinese law foreigners are required to check in with the police upon arrival at their destination. When I asked my relatives to help me do this they looked at me like I was crazy. "You want to go into a Chinese police station" I was asked with amazement. "Go ahead, but bring money because that's all the police are interested in, taking your money. They don't care if you're here or not". So I have never checked in on any visit then or since.
Desert Tortoise
"It is a shame and waste of a reputation and resource that China, with all its history, intellectual prowess and potential, still feels it necessary to steal intellectual property and information from other nations. "
China doesn't have the cadre of senior scientists and engineers one finds in the employ of corporations from the major capitalist economies, people with decades of hands-on real world experience imagining, developing and bringing new ideas and products to market. Mao and the Red Guards ran off or killed all the intellectuals left in China after the Revolution. A lot of others fled as Mao was taking over and populate the US, Taiwan and Hong Kong (watch for them to flee Hong Kong next). Without those senior engineers and scientists the newly graduated engineers don't know how to make things happen and make a lot of mistakes. Rather than wait for their engineers to learn the ropes the hard way they steal technology from all and sundry attempting to catch up as fast as they can.
Zaphod
desert tortoise
China, if it gets rid of the CCP, could develop its own healthy economy. Taiwan did it. The problem is not "China", it is the CCP.
ulysses
China’s made the world rely on their manufacturing through 40 years of careful planning.
It requires an even smarter strategy through a stable , consistent policy. trump is incapable of leading his kitchen, forget about forging a cross country alliance to take on China.
Biden has his work cut out!!!
puregaijin
As one who’s a big fan neither Of China nor of the USA (please don’t confuse USA with American people), I’d like to see China receive a nice diplomatic whack this time around. Their bullying has now reached vulgar levels when they should be apologizing, correcting and preventing !!!! Chinese people, this doesn’t mean you, more the CCP.
Bugle Boy of Company B
They're busy collecting all the bugs they planted before the Americans came, no doubt.
justasking
LOL. Trump stood up to China by calling them racial slurs. In terms of policies, he has done nothing.
Peter Neil
Closing a consulate or two is small in the overall game.
Trump borrowed $200 million from the Bank of China in 2012 for a share in a NY property and still owes most of it. There's some irony there to consider in his actions. He blusters tough, but is conciliatory behind the scenes. The same for the relationship with Russia.
Embassies and Consulates are barracks for spies. They always have been and forever will be. The US has more spies than China and spies on every country, just like most countries. The US spies on Japan, Japan spies on the US.
This is just distraction and the press falls for it. The real story is Trump's money connections to China, Russia and now this story came out to deflect from the report that millions dollars of money from Trump campaign contributions were funneled directly to Trump by holding phantom "meetings" at all Trump properties. Millions of dollars from campaign funds directly to Trump coffers.
Strangerland
He does.
Unfortunately, he doesn't have the skills. He's an inept negotiator - he only knows how to "negotiate" when he's in a position with a large power differential over the other party. He doesn't know how to negotiate from an even, or even a weak position. China and Xi have been running circles around him. Americans don't see the propaganda China puts out in the world about America, they only see the American propaganda that America puts out in the world about China. They don't realize just how strong China's propaganda is in other countries.
Trump has been a windfall for them. They've been making fun of him for four years now, and in the places where they put out their propaganda, where people dislike America, their propaganda has a lot of support.
Desert Tortoise
"Trump got the balls to do it too."
But he cuts and runs in Syria and Afghanistan. He abandoned the only ally we had with any kind of fight in them by abandoning the Kurds. Gutless coward.
Desert Tortoise
I have news for you Peeping Tom. China is a superpower today. The USSR had a much weaker economy than China has. Their consumer goods were decades behind the west. The only market for them was other Communist countries that were embargoed by the west. Nobody outside the Warsaw Pact and a few African and Asian allies would buy their kludge. Ever see a late 1980s Lada? Or a Yugo? The old saying in the USSR was that if you saw a line you stood in it because they were probably selling something you needed and if you didn't get in line now you might not get any at all. Shortages of basics were normal. It took seven years after ordering a car for it to be delivered. China has none of those problems. They are short arable land, that is true but not short of cash to buy whatever they need including vast tracts of farmland in Argentina. Their military equipment that I have seen is better than what the Soviets had or what Russia has today. The Russians can't keep young engineers. Wages are too low, they all go to the west to work. Russia's engineers are dying off and not being replaced. China does not have that problem.
What will eventually bring China down is their demographics. Their working age population peaked in 2014 and is in decline. Their overall population is at its peak now and is beginning to decline. By the middle of this century China will lose about 500 million from their population and the age distribution will skew heavily towards the elderly. This has huge economic implications.
Peeping_Tom
"I have news for you Peeping Tom. China is a superpower today."
A Superpower that cannot feed itself, can never exist.
A superpower ranked 65 in terms of PIB?
A superpower relying on cheap exports/child labour/absence of employment protections/almost total lack of freedom?
Most polluted air and waterways anywhere in the world?
"Squalid Living Conditions Of Hong Kong's Poor Population"
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter=NULL&v=KQkvI_J8_QI"
In China proper, it gets even worse.
A superpower where the hourly rate is 24 Yuan, i.e. 3.43 United States Dollars?!
Yeah, they're; in your dreams perhaps.
Not according to Institutions such as the IMF/World Bank.
I too have news for you:
They're not and won't be any time soon.
Read the links I posted.
Some written by Chinese themselves; not by the Peeping.
WA4TKG
Good one there RationalDearReader :)
Mickelicious
I love the disinfecting team. Or are they ghostbusters?
TARA TAN KITAOKA
PLEASE understand that usa stated this first.
Mark
Trump got the balls to do it too.
i@n
But but China is evil surely there's a difference? =)
Anyway, seriously, thanks for that post @Peter Neil
Desert Tortoise
I'm laughing out loud. The very last photo in the set of images shows a man holding a fan. I have that exact same fan next to me. The side you see in the photo depicts "Mao's Ten Marshalls", the ten field commanders of the early PLA who were promoted to the rank of Field Marshall. I bought it for about a buck from a small shop in Shanghai. The other side of the fan depicts Zhao Enlai, Mao and Li Shaoqi.
aomorisamurai
@NCIS Reruns
"Next, why not up the ante and declare a complete trade embargo between the US and China? Within 18 months Americans will be clad in rags and barefoot and Walmart, Target and all the other big box stores will be shuttered. Likewise for the Apple stores peddling iPhones and iPads. The law of unintended consequences is rather unforgiving."
I wonder if Western corporations ever gave that some thought while they were selling out to China in the name of increasing their profits. They chose to put the majority of the eggs in one basket, and here we are.
I hope the short term gain was worth it.
FizzBit
so true. Will be installing a new shower system in my new tiled shower. All of the shower hardware was US made, tile from Italy, waterproofing measures from US and Germany, as a matter of fact, if you’re gonna diy a shower, stay away from Chinese products.
The Avenger
Trump will crumble in the face of any hardball international politics, especially when they take aim at his own personal resources.
He's only a ***** bully who has consistently run at the first sign that he can be damaged.
WA4TKG
Chris Cringle:
REF: “Maybe in Japan”?
Yes, ESPECIALLY in Japan, yes, it IS unfortunate china believes this type of “SOP” is necessary, just imagine if they weren’t.
i@n
You mean it's actually true or the US doesn't do it also?
Wolfpack
Keep closing - move them all to Taiwan.
Zaphod
Desert Tortoise
You sound like John Bolton here. How many more of these stupid foreign wars do you want? And no, it is sign of courage to send people to death from the safety of your diesk. By that standard, Hillary Clinton would be a great hero.
Paul_Barbara
'...A State Department statement expressed disappointment, saying the consulate “has stood at the center of our relations with the people in Western China, including Tibet, for 35 years.”
“We are disappointed by the Chinese Communist Party’s decision and will strive to continue our outreach to the people in this important region through our other posts in China,” the statement said...'
Should have thought about that before you shut the Chinese Houston Consulate.
Still, T'rump is an expert, among many other things, in cutting off his nose to spite his face. Go ahead and close more, T'rump, if you dare!
About time Humpty had a great fall; trouble is the 'Touchy-Feely' Child-Loving Dementiac who the PTB are pushing to replace Humpty should be put out to grass (if not jailed), not installed as President.
mdepaiva
Standard procedure: You close one of my Diplomatic Missions and I will close one of yours.
Slickdrifter
China will implode in time and fall. Or the people will rise soon enough.
The embassy closed because were at economical war with China. The world power grab struggle is real. Little birdie told me the Chinese embassy was ordered closed because of espionage on fighter jet models coming up and as a part of spy ring. But what do I know?
China had to retaliate. That is all. Stave the people in China? You mat get your revolution.
@Peeping_Tom
Really enjoyed your comment. Good one! Good facts. You nailed it front and center!
Desert Tortoise
It occurred to me last night that there have been several occasions in the past year where Chinese nationals have either run the gates at US military installations or walked in from outside by going around fencing at the beach. There were a couple of attempts by "students" to penetrate NAS Key West that presumably would have been organized by the Chinese Consulate in Houston.
Desert Tortoise
""Next, why not up the ante and declare a complete trade embargo between the US and China? Within 18 months Americans will be clad in rags and barefoot and Walmart, Target and all the other big box stores will be shuttered. Likewise for the Apple stores peddling iPhones and iPads. The law of unintended consequences is rather unforgiving."
Nah. Read the labels carefully while shopping. There is almost nothing you might need that can be found made in a country other than China. This is especially true of clothing and footwear. I have shopped this way for most of the last 15 years, avoiding anything and everything made in China (my Chinese wife often undercuts my effort to boycott Chinese goods but that's a different matter). It is possible to do. I have also written a number of companies selling consumer goods and told them that I will not buy their product if it is made in China. Covid-19 and Xi Jinping have only hardened my resolve. Obtw, when you shop this way you discover how much is still made in the US. It costs a bit more to buy Made in USA but for me the extra cost is well worth it. Forget the crappy $50 Chinese made Bissell at Wally World that you will have to replace every year or two and buy a US made Tristar or Aerus Lux, either of which will last you 20 years or more and more than pay back the premium you pay up front. Forget LG or Haier washers and driers, buy a Speed Queen made in Wisconsin. Expensive but they are built to commercial standards and last forever.
Hiro S Nobumasa
Trump wins in a landslide!
Hiro S Nobumasa
How bout just simply opening one in Taipei?
Trumps wins in a landslide!
Michael Machida
Childish China.
joyridingonthetitanic
In reality China is not all the bothered at the moment about the so called "pressure" it is under, as it knows it has friends all over the world, who rely upon it for investment and economic support. The only way to make a bully like China take notice would be if those developing economies turned away form them and went with another. China knows its reputation with the west is shot, but it also knows its reputation in Africa and South America is much better. Essentially it really doesn't care if the US, UK, Japan or Australia moan about what's its doing when I knows full well it has ample support elsewhere.
Also Americas power in the region is dwindling and it has enough problems at home to deal with, so no one is actually taking a line here, If Japan actually wanted to it could be a proper regional power and a decent economic and military check on China's growing ambitions. But that wont happen because the Liberal bleeding hearts wont allow it to. Its easy to moan about China but its much harder to actually do something about it. Japan should be leading the way here and unless it is willing to take the drastic step to do so, it to risks being side-lined and falling trap to China and its clout.
quercetum
All I take from this Trump’s ineptitude in dealing with China and the illegal Mexicans of 2016 are now the Chinese in 2020. What American government and business want is for Chinese companies to compete fairly without help from the state. It’s not about freedom of speech or human rights or even IP theft (that didn’t just start all of a sudden; they’ve been doing it for years.)
China will dangle the carrot and its middle class market of 850 million strong and the US won’t be able to resist. To make it easier for Trumpies to understand, it’s like the girl at the bar who bends over then turns around to see if you were checking her out. Game over.
theFu
Closing all Consulates would be foolish. Must keep at least 1 open so there are some communications lines available.
No doubt charged with "causing trouble" and will need to be re-educated for 2 yrs.
Until the world agrees to slow and eventually stop doing business with the CCP Chinese, nothing will change. We've tried active engagement and the world was screwed. The lack of rule of law has been the downfall. Until everyone is treated fairly in China, we need to stop playing.
The world needs for China to play the business game following the same rules everyone else does, internally and externally. I look forward to that day coming. We know it isn't an "Asian" problem, since most other Asian nations have learned the rules for fair play.
Peeping_Tom
China is not and won't be a Superpower in the sense America is now (and the USSR once was).
China hasn't achieved total food self sufficiency; large swaths of the country are desert/desertic/semi arid, thus unsuitable for agriculture; lacks many natural resources necessary for industry; lacks capital (even though they export lots of cheap goods). Their technological ability is still dependent from in-flows from Western/Japanese multinationals. And if they can't get it legitimately, they will steal it, blatantly.
China is still the World's manufacturer, not because they can do it better, but chiefly they do it cheaper.
And we all know why/how Chinese stuff is so cheap, thus let's just sit this one out.
For now.
Average wealth places China at nbr: 65 (IMF in the World). Hardly the stuff Superpowers are made of.
This probably helps explaining why all China's adepts don't want to live there. "Let me stay in the US of A, Japan, UK, France, Germany et al and praise China instead", appears to be their motto.
China's geography works against them.
India is conspiring and blocking the Western flank; in case of war, Japan can bottle the whole Chinese navy inside the island sea. We all know about Vietnam.
All those geographically challenged, please check a Mappa Mundi, now.
All those claiming that China is the new US of A are just misadvised dreamers.
1)
a) "Why China won’t become a superpower"
"https://fabiusmaximus.com/2019/07/14/china-not-a-superpower/"b) "China Never Was A Superpower—And It Won’t Be One Anytime Soon"
"https://www.hoover.org/research/china-never-was-superpower-and-it-wont-be-one-anytime-soon"c) "Today’s China will never be a superpower"
"https://www.ft.com/content/233b101e-7d51-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560"2)
a1) "China is not the only candidate for a 21st century superpower"
"https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/China-is-not-the-only-candidate-for-a-21st-century-superpower"Desert Tortoise
"You sound like John Bolton here. How many more of these stupid foreign wars do you want? And no, it is sign of courage to send people to death from the safety of your diesk. By that standard, Hillary Clinton would be a great hero."
Better to fight them on their soil than allow another 9-11 to happen. To bad if some other nations take offense. This nation learned a very hard lesson on 7 December 1941 and another on 11 September 2001.
Hello Kitty 321
＠Kniknaknokkaer
You are talking about America, right?
Starbucks
This all means nothing. A few people cut their overseas holiday short.
Bugle Boy of Company B
I agree, except the part about the Chinese people.
bass4funk
What? Lol
I agree, it’s enough it’s time that China is brought down a notch, their pride might be hurt, but that’s the least of our worries with everything they’ve done. But yeah, Trump does something proactive and people still complain. Imagine if he hadn’t closed the Consulate down in this situation? Imagine the blowback from that and now he does something and there’s still blowback. These people...Lol
ZENJI
Ultimatley, the USA will come out of this 2nd best.
trump can only work IN THE SHORT TERM. Mid/Long term stratagies are a forign concept to trump.
So there is a "stable genius?" v An Embeded Dictator.
trump has lost support & the confidence of the country, whereas Mr China is a Dictator "for life"
So you see, the U.S. is in a Lose-Lose situation.
Strangerland
So many flaws in this statement.
First: I didn't say I can't see a difference between China and the US - the US isn't running concentration camps on their own people. I pointed out that when the USA says China is evil, the world agrees. And ALSO, when China says the US is evil, the world has to agree - and a million dead Iraqi citizens, murdered in the name of fake WMDs would agree. If America hadn't caused them to be murdered.
Second: YOU elect your leaders, not US. The rest of the world doesn't elect your leaders. So that's not a point for us to not criticize you for, as we have to live with the pathetic choices your country makes. Bush jr. and Trump are just the two latest.
Sorry (not sorry), if you think the rest of the world has any reason to think America is not evil, you're kidding yourself. The actions of your country, and this ridiculous sense of American moral supremacy make America gross.
Hello Kitty 321
@LandOfTheLost
According to the 2016 figures, an estimated 6.1 million people are disenfranchised and only the very rich are in a position to run for office so no, it does meet the necessary criteria.
RichardPearce
Reading the comments it becomes clear that some people still think of China as the disaster it was in the aftermath of the Japanese occupation, rather than the biggest economic power in the WORLD, with significant friends and allies, and the capability to, if not collapse the American economy at will, subject it to the sort of crippling pressure that the US inflicted on so many nations in Central America, South America, and the ME.
And if that happens, even if China doesn't decide to target Japan for any measures, Japan will have difficulty feeding itself, and the Japanese government will have to deal with an economy in collapse without any hope of help from the US or the EU.
Hello Kitty 321
@LandOfTheLost
And do you even think America has an actual democracy?
Pukey2
He only stood up to China because they didn't help him try to win the next election, as requested by the man-child. And then he used China as a bogeyman to fight off criticism against his handling of the pandemic.
rgcivilian1
Trump gives the CCP millions of dollars every tear to make his Trump Collection clothing line. Buy a Trump tie, help fund a missile aimed at the US or Taiwan....
No it's the sheeple who continue to buy the products 'made in China' that gives the money companies, like WalMart, Target, by the way includes the Rose Hill Foundation, Clinton Foundation, Gates Foundation etc. If people would not buy the products that they paid to have made in China then guess what, no money going to the CCP by these companies since no buys any things they sell in their stores made in China. There are countries like before, Vietnam, Malyasia, Indonesia, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, France, Italy, UK, plenty of countries out there that one does not need to soley depend on China.
"America always needs an enemy: Germany, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Iran again and now China."
Nothing new there just the same old Axis of Evil pitted against the old Allies with a couple of newbies.
"China is on the rise, America is in decline. " Yet the innovation is lead by America and those countries whom support it. hmmm. Every single made in China procured breaks within minutes or days of first use. BUT you may be on too something that is troublesome, since the Chinese copied just about their entire products, factories built upon the backs of other countries. Guess cheating does pay at least for awhile but it won't last it never does and historically it has proven so.
"If they did that, China would retaliate and it would tear apart whatever is left of the pathetic state of the US, which Trump has ripped to shreds"
Pathetic state of the US? Too funny but there are parts of the country with pathetic idiots I will give you that, but does not include the rest of the US. China would retaliate with what? I carrier, missiles that are not even guaranteed to fly much less hit a target accurately. The US will and can without a doubt and it has had plenty of practice real world. So China has a massive military body, big deal a very impact missile that is deadly accurate will take care of that and they won't even know it. That is the sad part. If only we as the human race could set aside these idiotic politics and policies that gets us nowhere since the invention of the wheel, well perhaps we could really do much better working together not against each other. WE can't all be the big dogs, but we can surely respect one another and get along. There was no reason for China to start a massive buildup in the name of research yet it has turned to yet more lies and instead are militarized bases, something they said would not happen, HK agreement broken by China, India and China border, keep peace yet they invaded and started to build, again broken agreement. it just goes on and on. All the other countries were only seeking business deals. Not a nightmare.
lincolnman
Really? Then just go to the Trumpstore.com and look at his selection of $125 ties - each made in a Chinese sweatshop factory. Or maybe one of these...
Late night television host Jimmy Kimmel went on a shopping spree on the official TrumpStore.com, and found a slew of products made in other countries. A white golf hat was made in China, while a Trump mug was made in Thailand. A shoe bag and duffel bag were made in China. A toddler bib he ordered was made in Peru. A Trump collector medallion was made in China. Kimmel also said that two products he ordered — a pet bandanna and a gold block — did not have a country of origin listed on the product or its materials, something that is illegal. And that's just a few examples...
Seems like you're calling all your fellow Trump supporters who buy these products "sheeple"...
I agree...
The Avenger
Since the time of Kissinger's "we will have to agree to disagree" approach to China, I believe that the US has not pressured the Chinese leadership enough on core issues. Unfortunately, Trump is not pressuring them at all. Instead, he is providing them with a convenient pretext for shutting our CG in Chengdu while ignoring important substantive issues such as the forced relocation of Muslims into concentration camps. Closing the CG in Texas will not stop the theft of intellectual property. It won't even slow it. Instead, it will provide the Communist leaders in China with a handy tool for deflecting attention.
Toasted Heretic
Will anyone notice the difference?
lincolnman
That was a joke, right?
Trump stood up to China? You mean he stood up AFTER he got on his knees and pleaded with Xi for campaign help. You know, asking a foreign government to interfere? Just ask Repub Conservative Icon Bolton.
Trump gives the CCP millions of dollars every tear to make his Trump Collection clothing line. Buy a Trump tie, help fund a missile aimed at the US or Taiwan....
SimondB
America always needs an enemy: Germany, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Iran again and now China. Got to keep that arms industry going. But this tit-for tat of closing embassies is pretty run of the mill stuff. Just like when one country deports a "spy" the other country suddenly finds a spy they need to deport. Trump and his administration can get as 'wet you pants' excited as they like - it is after all part of his election campaign - but the reality is, China is on the rise, America is in decline. Even if your patriotism or your despise of 'Johnny Foreigner' may blinker your view, it is an undeniable fact. And having the greatest military in the world; that is, the ability to kill more people than anyone else, does not make you a great nation.
smithinjapan
Monty: "Close them all!"
Yeah, because the bombast and Trump and his minions has done the US, China, and the world so well thus far. If they did that, China would retaliate and it would tear apart whatever is left of the pathetic state of the US, which Trump has ripped to shreds. The Uniter-in-Chief... or is it War-Time President? Or Law-and-Order President? I forget how many titles he's declared himself even in the past few weeks alone.... has ended the US experiment there. Either he will lose in 2020, or he will lose, not admit it, and declare himself winner and the move towards a dictatorship -- much like China, btw, for all your crying about it -- will be complete. In either case, even when Biden wins, the nation is finished already. You'll never recover from the division, which is why Putin helped install Trump, and why he loves people who support him despite it meaning their own demise in the mix. China would take advantage of that if you had your way, and in one way or another the US would be crushed if the situation became the worst it could be.