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© Thomson Reuters 2022.45 nations pledge to coordinate evidence of war crimes in Ukraine
By Anthony Deutsch and Robin Emmott THE HAGUE©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
41 Comments
sakurasuki
Pledge won't stop russia, just like NATO, No Action Talks Only.
Antiquesaving
OK that is acceptable and understandable.
But why only one side?
As most know I don't like or trust either of these to places as this is all about ethnic war and revenge war.
But it seems strange that according to the ICRC (red cross) Russia has at least 6,000 confirmed POWs and is looking at possibly between 8,000 to 10,000 in total once processing and verification is complete. ( Note not Russian claims but information from ICRC).
On the other side Ukraine says it only has about 700 POWs (Ukraine announced this in later June as it announced the opening of it's first and only POW camp.
So shouldn't we be seeing red flags?
Ukraine claims 30,000 plus Russians Killed, claims thousands of deserters, but only a few hundred POWs?! (Not Russian propaganda these are officially news releases from Ukraine itself)
Now if it was Russia says the same thing our first thought would be something doesn't make sense why so few POWs.
I again point out both sides are not to be trusted and if I sound like I am more against Ukraine it is only because Ukraine is the only one of these two being given a free pass and western media and governments are looking the other way as to make sure they don't see.
We are scrutinising Russia for good reason, so I don't need to point anything out it is all in the articles and headlines.
Remember in passed wars we focused on one side only then later find out the other side wasn't any better, look up Korean war, (South Korea atrocities investigation pointed out most were done by South Korean troops) look up Vietnam war, etc..
So again when you have 2 side that historically hate eachother the way these two do, best to watch them both equally.
Rodney
Finally, the families of Ukrainians beaten, tortured, raped and disappeared can get closure for these Ukrainian-regime supported Tornado and Azov battalions did in Donbass that left over 14,000 murdered.
englisc aspyrgend
All the perpetrators of war crimes must be brought to justice.
Let the russian fascists remember, times and regimes change, where they think they are safe now will not always be so. War criminals from the Second World War are still hunted in their 90’s, so will they be. Which is why this is so very necessary, to forensically document and investigate these crimes that the evidence will hang over their heads like the sword of Damocles for ever more!
Antiquesaving
Well no!
WW2 War criminals from Ukraine OUN UPA were not only not hunted but Ukraine in the 90s made them heroes of the nation only to reverse the decision after international protest.
But in 2015 while everyone was feeling sorry for Ukraine it again made these Fascist National heroes with Poland, Lithuania and Israel protesting the move and Poland going so far as to pass their own law in 2018 to counter the Ukrainian one.
History is far more complicated especially when we use facts.
lincolnman
One more example of Putin's disastrous miscalculation in Invading Ukraine...
Russia has been shown to be a military paper tiger, with incompetent troops and shoddy equipment...and its most successful military tactic is to retreat...
Its Generals have a habit of finding Ukrainian missiles - raining down on them...
The Russian economy is on par with Rwanda - as it defaults on its debts...
Now with 40 countries siding against it, it has become a true international pariah...whose only friends reside in Beijing and Tehran...
The world, and his countrymen, will hold Putin accountable for his war crimes...
Antiquesaving
Ok let's break out facts and reality:
That paper tiger now controls over 20% of Ukraine now heading for 30%, hate to see what is non paper tiger would have done!
Problem again is that even the Ukraine number one and two allies the USA and UK are now backtracking on the Ukrainian claims of Russian casualties giving numbers far far far below previous Ukrainian claims from the number of Russian troops killed (USA saying less than half what Ukraine claims) to tanks airplanes etc.. all numbers now estimated by the USA and UK to be less than half what was originally claimed (you can find USA and UK figures online)
Only if you squint and ignore reality
40 countries out of 195 no India, no China not a single African country most of Asia, South and Central America and look at the countries Mexico on board to investigate buy Mexico isn't part of the sanctions.
Oh and Iran under sanctions since 1979 and it has changed. Tells use the effectiveness of sanctions
Nope the"world" has already said it doesn't care 155 plus countries will not join the Sanctions, the countries trying to enforce sanctions total less than 10% of the world population, so reality is reality, most of the planet doesn't care about the war and just want their food and oil cheap.
UChosePoorly
Do you include yourself in this grouping?
stormcrow
That’s going to be one awfully thick record book of Russian atrocities.
Antiquesaving
It is a bit ironic and hypocritical that the USA is backing this.
The USA has steadfastly refused to recognize the ICC jurisdiction over USA Military operations and refused to cooperate in any investigation of it's military actions and refuses to permit any USA person to be tried by the ICC.
Yrral
Only person bear responsibility is Putin,since Putin control lots of these countries energy supply,how many of them dare arrest him,I will believe it when I see it,just a futile exercise
vic.M
englisc aspyrgendToday 08:06 am JST
What ? You mean like the ones who attacked Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc. ?
Antiquesaving
Well if we are to believe many here and the western news, Putin is dying, remember? We keep hearing this, we are told this daily.
So if he is dying then he cannot be held accountable!
Oh and the dying Putin just had kid number 8 with his girlfriend not bad for a dying man!
Antiquesaving
Pointless to point these out!
The USA position is the ICC has no right or jurisdiction over USA citizens and especially military personnel.
And people can down vote all they want, this is a fact you can check for yourselves.
Isn't that hilarious?!
Randy Johnson
Pledge, pledge, pledge. So? And then what? Cheap talk, no action.
Just like those effect sanctions.
Strangerland
So do you think the world should abandon Ukarine Antiquesavings? And do you think Ukraine should just lay down and surrender?
Randy Johnson
This is what happens when you have self-interest career politicians as your representatives.
Note to the people: they don't give a damn about you.
Nemo
The Russians are going to rue the day that this comes back on them, and it IS going to come back on them.
Antiquesaving
Just keep copy paste I have answered multiple times.
You can keep up the person attacks and questions, I will ignore and stick to facts.
Unlike some facts are facts feelings are not facts.
Just like those that down vote the simple fact the USA backs the ICC here but refuses to sign the agreement of by subject to its jurisdiction.
It is a fact don't like the fact too bad.
Strangerland
What personal attacks? You are throwing out a lot of criticism and derision. I'm unclear on what you propose to do, which it would seem to me is that you think the world should abandon Ukraine, and that Ukraine should just bow down in front of the more powerful Russia. I'm basing this off the tone of your comments. Am I incorrect in this inference?
Something I've spoken strongly against more times than I can count myself, but I don't see what relevance it has in regards to Ukraine, unless it's an argument towards the idea that because the US has been horrendous in some of their foreign policy, that we somehow should abandon Ukraine as a result. Of course, that argument isn't logical, but I really can't see any other reason for you to bring in American atrocities to this topic. Care to enlighten us?
Antiquesaving
Really, when did the USA Pauly for the things it did in Vietnam, Iraq, etc..
Dream on places like the USA, China, Russia don't pay they have never been held accountable and it is going to start now.
This is what I mean about facts VS feelings!
The ICC has no jurisdiction over The USA, China, Russia as none is a signatory.
Simple facts.
Antiquesaving
More hilarious!
Not signatories to the ICC.
USA
Russia and Ukraine.
The two belligerence in the conflict both don't recognize the ICC nor is the USA backing Ukraine or China or India that still buy from Russia.
If it wasn't such a sad waste of time and the subject so serious we would be laughing or A off.
So basically if anything is found on either side both Ukraine and Russia will not recognize ICC jurisdiction or authority.
Is this a joke? Are we April 1st?
Strangerland
So what do you propose? I hear a lot of whining and complaining about what shouldn't be done, but nothing to express what should.
You know what they say about people like that behind their backs, right?
...or maybe you don't...
lincolnman
Indeed....
Hmmmm.....
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/news-explainers/why-russian-tanks-are-exploding-in-ukraine/4AC76E3C-9F10-466C-8962-66F4738F59C6
A deflection....
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russian-officer-elite-decimated-9-who-were-killed-in-combat-2022-3
Some reality....
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-26/russia-defaults-on-foreign-debt-for-first-time-since-1918
Yes, the major industrialized countries....
https://www.ft.com/content/522a1894-155c-4234-860d-b4cf5c965376
Every country "cares" that it could be the next victim of the Russian madman...a pitiful figure that tries to see himself as another Peter the Great - while hiding 20 feet from everyone at his "table"....
Antiquesaving
I have said it before, their is no turning the clock back, you and others can go on and on and on about Ukraine's physical integrity but unless you are ready to back full ethnic cleansing of the Russian dominated zones like Crimea Donbas, it is over they can never live as one united country again, it is that simple facts not feelings.
Ukraine has passed far to many anti Russian laws most recently banning Russian literature and music! Russian separatists and Russian soldiers have killed far to many Ukrainians.
It is over take the rose coloured glasses off, remove the rose water pomander from infront of your noses and smell the stench.
Encouraging more fighting will only kill more people.
Sorry but reality and facts not feelings.
This is where we are and too late to turn back the clock.
Time to stop wasting time, money and lives and end this now and yes sadly Russia will retain the territory it has but we can stop it from taking more by ending this.
This B. NATO generals want of years of war will accomplish nothing but more dead.
The same with this investigation, neither Russia or Ukraine will surender one of their own and neither recognises the ICC jurisdiction which is major hypocrisy on Ukraine's part, if it want investigations then it needs to part of the agreement.
Russia isn't asking, Ukraine is so it should sign the agreement before it makes the request.
UChosePoorly
This is not a "fact". This is what is known as an "opinion". Learn the difference.
Antiquesaving
Nice try.
You do realise you use ever dubious sources plus they actually point out exactly what I said Ukraines figures are fiction and point out USA and UK figures a half if not less than Ukrainian claims.
The so-called default is a joke, Russia has all the money just it was blocked from paying it.
Not a sign of bad economy if they have the money.
To be exact the western sanctions didn't work and Russia had no problem getting it's money, so all the west could come up with was trying to block them from paying, pretty pathetic.
Antiquesaving
Ok opinion if you like, opinion thousands killed along ethnic lines, opinion, laws drawn along ethnic lines, opinion, political opposition parties arrested and banned along ethinc lines, but none of that matters because somehow Love will unite them again!
Their is being optimistic and then there is believing in fantasy.
8 years Ukraine and the 2 breakaway were at war neither side giving in.
But not after far worse, you think they can live together again in peace?
I need to ask, are you really serious or just trolling?
lincolnman
Thank you...
No, I noticed I provided valid references - and you provided none....
Weak excuse...it defaulted, plain and simple....just like some third-world country in Africa...
Which they haven't....they would have paid their bills if they had....
Yes, your weak attempt to deflect without citing any valid sources is pathetic....but at least consistent....LOL...
UChosePoorly
AS - other places have gone through worse and have remained one country. I have confidence that Ukraine can do so again once the Russians go home.
Eastman
i feel like one way "justice" just to punish russian side-Am I right?
Antiquesaving
Guys get back to me when the USA, Ukraine, Russia, China, etc...sign up to the ICC until then it is a joke.
How can the USA and Ukraine want an investigation by a court neither recognises?
It must be a joke.
theFu
100% Russian fault. Always remember this.
Libya in the 1980s-1990s was/is a terrorist state killing innocents and training known terrorist with a history around the world. They had a stated goal of wiping Israel out.
La Belle disco bombing in Germany
Pan Am Flight 103
Hijacked Pan Am Flight 73 (terrorist trained in Libya)
UTA Flight 772 bombed ... this was after Libya invaded Chad.
11 Libyan dissidents living abroad had been murdered, with at least 5 others where murder was attempted around the world.Thousands killed due to the Libyan govt and Qaddafi. Tremendous restraint was shown.
Iraq invaded a neighbor, Kuwait. Kuwait asked, begged, for the US to intervene.
Afghanistan was about removing a govt that supported al-Qaeda's killing over 3300 Americans on American soil. I have no issue with that. Al-Qaeda/Taliban thought that a few cruise missiles would be sent. They didn't expect a military invasion and overthrown govt. There were certainly terrible acts in Afghanistan by US military along with systematic Afghani govt corruption. UK special forces should be included. There are called inside the US for accountability when non-combatants are killed with malice. It makes the newspapers. It isn't snuff out like they do in dictatorships and authoritarian govts. https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/there-must-be-accountability-for-us-killings-of-children-and-other-civilians-in-afghanistan/
Syria: The Assad regime has used chemical weapons against the Syrian people at least 50 times since the conflict started. That's a war crime. Even Al Jazeera found 17 instances: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/opcw-suspects-17-instances-of-chemical-weapons-use-in-syria ISIL also used chemical weapons. Hundreds of thousands of Syrians have been killed in their civil war and millions has fled. What is a terrorist group doing with chemical weapons? Should nobody stop users of chemical weapons?
ok1517
This will be quite a combined effort looking at the enormous number of war crimes those Russian marauders committed! And it will take years to bring those to justice who are responsible for all this (if it is really possible).
Strangerland
They've done pretty good with ex-Nazis.
ok1517
Strangerland,
agreed! And I hope the same will happen with the Russians responsible for this and so much more!
UChosePoorly
And even if the war criminals manage to escape above-board justice, there will be no shortage of Ukrainians who may be more interested in dispensing the extra-judicial sort. I don't think it would be that hard for them to get around in Russia to make it happen. It's not like they are oceans apart.
Axel
More ridiculous publicity stunts to try and deflect attention from the fact people in Europe and North American in particular are funding a losing war they can't afford.
I know there are many, many crimes that have come to light in regard to American, German, British, Canadian and Australian forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Serbia and etc etc. Thanks to Wikileaks, one of the most egregious is on video. How many have been arrested? I know one American soldier was scapegoated and then promptly pardoned. Can't say Trump was wrong in doing that. Send those guys into wars of aggression 1000s of miles from their home towns and a good number are going to turn into psychos.
I'm just wondering after all of Donbass has been liberated, are they going to next liberate Odessa or Kharkov. I feel maybe Odessa and the "ultra-nationalists" (to put it politely) are taking huge losses trying to hold Kharkov. The local people are telling the Russians everything about the activities and positions of the "ultra-nationalists" whom even admit it in social media posts.