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France left soul-searching after brutal church attack

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France left soul-searching after brutal church attack

Look no further than common sense, securing your border and making lots of changes in favor of national security. But tolerance, compassion and political correctness on the side for a while.

France needs to do something though,& they need to do it NOW.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Include Germany too. 4 attack in a week! The radicals are buried deep within the EU fabric. USA will have more eradicate Islamic attacks also. This is a global problem. The hate they have has no peacful solution.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

“It should not be possible for someone awaiting trial on charges of having links to terrorism to be released” on house arrest.

This. When you deal with terrorists or potential terrorists there is no place for 'sentimentalism'. It's not about the accused but ensuring society is reasonably protected from him/her/them. And a bracelet on an ankle is (obviously) not enough. Toughen up old Europe and stop thinking all citizens deserve the same level of freedom and rights. Terrorists don't, period.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

" Here we do not preach hatred, or we would be shut down." Curious.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"soul-searching" ?

Well it's pretty clear why these guy did that. Now France needs to drop the political correctness and crackdown on all these "S classified" guy who are left roaming free in spite of having spotted them as terrorists threats. Same for radical imams.

Every time it's the same thing "Oh, he was known by our services " or "he was supposed to be serving a longer sentence but got reductions or house time accommodations". The judges who release these guys after they're caught also need to take some responsibility.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

What's utterly baffling is how many on the political left continue to resist any suggestion that a country like France, Germany, or the U.S. has the moral and political right to stem the tide of foreign immigration. It's not only insufficient to accuse supporters of tighter immigration of "xenophobia," but it's also childish. Countering every political opinion running counter to your own with pithy ad hominem attacks is something children do, and any adult who makes a habit of such name-calling ought to be embarrassed of himself. When one's countrymen are being routinely knifed, shot, axed, blown up, and flattened by vehicles, and when nearly every violent act is committed by people with distinct similarities, it is not irrational to consider adopting a policy that gambles in favor of the lives and safety of one's own while taking a cautious stance toward those whose demographic traits signify an increase in the likelihood of violence and terror.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Look no further than common sense, securing your border and making lots of changes in favor of national security

The perps are largely European citizens, Robert. Daesh's creed, rabidly intolerant Wahhabism, needs to be tackled it its source, the kingdoms spending billions on its worldwide promotion.

How much is the West going to act, however, when the same kingdoms spend billions on war materiel?

20/20 hindsight, but Kermiche should have been on remand in a high security prison. In solitary.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

CrazyJoe, exactly right. Unfortunately PC still rules even now but It'll crumble in time. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more loss of life among the European populace but as we all know (even the "progressives" ) that is coming.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Utter disgrace when a President of supposed developed nation cannot distinguished the difference between restricting the "freedom of criminals & terrorists & terrorists hate-preachers" and restricting the "freedom of law abiding citizens". Pity the French people.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"The perps are largely European citizens, Robert. Daesh's creed, rabidly intolerant Wahhabism, needs to be tackled"

Very true. However, these seeds need fertile ground. You need to look at the the faith as a whole. Some of the beliefs held by many, in some cases most, Muslims in our own UK are quite terrifying in their intolerance.

Taking the gloves off and having an honest discussion about the very shocking beliefs held by very many Muslims is critical. Thankfully, there are Muslims in the UK and elsewhere who have been brave enough to point out things like rampant anti-Semitism, homophobia and and unwillingness to tell the authorities about wannabe terrorists and possible plots. We should applaud these people.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So France lets a guy who has tried to get terrorist training go, and Japan let a guy who says he will kill disabled people go.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Taking the gloves off and having an honest discussion about the very shocking beliefs held by very many Muslims is critical.

@jimizo, I'd love to see it, but I can't imagine any European political leader stepping forward. From a UK prime minister to the Muslim community, "Look around you. Non-muslims in this country don't go around hating people of other faiths. Yet we have ancient religious texts that are just as weird, and just as full of kindness, and just as full of horror as yours. The difference is that we've learned that it's all nonsense and we're not meant to really believe it. We just pretend we do to keep the vicar in a job. You should do the same."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@albaleo

Har! Good post.

I think developing a sense of humour about your religion and looking honestly some of the wacky things in it would be a great start. I remember a Catholic monk who taught us gave us some comical commentary on some of the nutty stuff in his holy book. Unfortunately, as we've seen, satire doesn't tend to go down well with members of a certain faith.

I think being able to state that Islam at the very least the slowest kid in the class would be a start but even that makes some people throw their rattles out of their prams.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"The perps are largely European citizens..."

But of immigrant/refugee background in nearly every case. If policymakers and the citizens who support them refuse to acknowledge this irrefutable fact and its implications, then there is no solution, no hope.

France, Belgium and others have lost the ability to control this crisis, and it's gonna get worse unless radical changes take place.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

New leaders, with different priorities, will be elected in Europe if this continues. And I'm afraid it will continue. It appears the globalist elites are losing control.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And the French response has been to send a warship off to the coast of Syrian to pound Isil positions-as if that will stop French born Muslims from turning on the native European French.....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"in the church of St Etienne there were 'three victims' - Father Jacques and the two killers."

Archbishop of Rouen, Dominique Lebrun

"Our belief in Christ should make us now not fighters and militants, but men of peace, reconciliation and love."

Archbishop of Paris, Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36902888

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"French culture has always had the gun and bomb within politics."

So you think these attacks are just part of French political tradition?

Maybe you are bending over backwards to avoid facing reality?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Jefflee

But of immigrant/refugee background in nearly every case. If policymakers and the citizens who support them refuse to acknowledge this irrefutable fact and its implications, then there is no solution, no hope.

I'm not sure this is the problem. I'm not really aware of policymakers refusing to acknowledge that terrorist acts are performed by immigrants/refugees/muslims. The bigger problem is what to do about it. I'm sure you agree that the problem won't go away if everyone simply says, "It's the immigrants/refugees/muslims."

France, Belgium and others have lost the ability to control this crisis

I don't see it as a crisis. A serious problem, for sure. But a crisis suggests it's perhaps OK to panic and take rash steps. I think we're far from that point.

On a more local scale, in the UK in the 1970s, I think the problem of IRA bombing was greater than this. Hugely so for Northern Ireland residents. I don't think we had to acknowledge that the problem "in nearly every case" involved people from Ireland. We didn't feel the need to explain to Irish people about their problems. So why is it different now? Is the Muslim community so separated from the rest of society that we really don't understand it? And if so, is it their fault or ours. And if even only a bit of it is our fault, shouldn't we do something about it? We don't exactly go out of our way to celebrate Muslim culture. Yet I think there are things to celebrate. Pretty girls in hijab, watching young boys joking and playing as they leave prayers on a Friday, and Sinbad the Sailor for a start.

The problem we face is people drawn to violence. They are mostly under 30 and mostly male, they see a caliphate as a good thing, they have come to believe that most non-Muslims are the enemy, and they are able to rationalize violence and suicide as a good thing. (Perhaps that's three problems.) I think we need to find out more about those things if we want to solve the problem. That's if we want to solve the problem rather than just wish it would go away.

(Sorry. Too much rambling perhaps.)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

As a Catholic this incident deeply saddens me. It's clear that the deislamification of Europe needs to happen, and happen quickly.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

They are mostly under 30 and mostly male, they see a caliphate as a good thing, they have come to believe that most non-Muslims are the enemy, and they are able to rationalize violence and suicide as a good thing

For the most part your observations are pretty much on the money, but I think that “they have come to believe that most non-Muslims are the enemy” is an understatement. Most of the Islamic extremism we see today, especially that associated with groups like the Islamic State, is rooted in a strict interpretation of Sunni Islam that preaches all non-Muslims are the enemy. This interpretation also preaches that any self identified Muslim who deviates from the original form of Islam is a false Muslim and is to be considered an apostate. All Shia Muslims are the enemy, all Baha’i, all Sufi, all Alawi, all Ahmadiyyas and any Sunni that does not adhere to this interpretation is the enemy.

These Takfiri/Salafists are a minority in the Islamic world but they punch way beyond their weight class. Back in the mid-seventeen hundreds, when this movement took root in the Arabian Peninsula, the scope of their mischief was limited by the logistics involved in moving a mounted army across a harsh environment. In the present day there are no such limitations. Technology has given them the ability to strike out at the corruption they see in the world any place that they see it. They are now, once again, able to attack the enemies of Islam in their home countries and the dream of the global caliphate has never seemed closer. I remember reading a paper by a Muslim scholar where he stated that the only options available to the non-Muslim world are capitulation or annihilation; the current crop of zealots seem to have taken that to heart.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

looks like the sheep are starting to wake up,,,,

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

any Sunni that does not adhere to this interpretation is the enemy.

Therein lies the rub.

This isn't a Muslims vs the world issue.

The rights, freedoms and beliefs of the majority of Muslims are just as threatened as everybody else by the rise of rabidly intolerant - and extremely deep-pocketed - Wahhabism/Salafism.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Why the heck move into a Catholic, Christian, Western-infidel society at all?

Because that is where the most need is. The expressed goal of these Wahhabi is to cleanse the earth of the corruption that, by its very existence, is blasphemous and an affront to the one true god.Their beliefs give them the exclusive authority to determine who and what represents corruption and Catholic, Christian Western-infidel society is right at the top of their list. They see as their duty to God to seek out corruption and defilement, where ever it may be found, and destroy it. Let's say that for them the "West" is a very target rich environment.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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