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© Copyright 2020 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Teacher beheaded in France; police shoot dead suspected killer
By ELAINE GANLEY PARIS©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
48 Comments
kurisupisu
If the right to be free and voice an opinion in a secular country is being destroyed by the followers of Islam then that religion needs to be constrained and reformed.
If its followers can not suppress the violent minority then what are the options to prevent innocent people being murdered?
There needs to be a debate on this by Muslims and if it is impossible to prevent further killings then Islam in France must be abolished.
Jimizo
One ComRes poll result I saw from the UK saw a quarter of Muslims had ‘some sympathy’ with the Charlie Hebdo terrorists.
This is horrific.
.
Jimizo
I hope to see a huge and united outcry from the Muslim communities across France clearly stating that free speech is not negotiable in a civilised country including ridicule of religious figures, and those spreading intolerance of ‘blasphemers’, free speech advocates, gays etc have no place in a civilised country. There has been too much equivocation over this, too much of playing the victim, too much cultural relativism and too much excuse-making from the left on behalf of the intolerant.
Countries like France have sadly become a example to the world of what not to do on immigration and refugees.
Hung Nguyen
It is the time for Muslim communities in France and around the world to condemn this extreme act of terrorism in the strongest terms if they wish Islam to be rightly understood and embraced in countries who have kindly given them new lives.
Remaining silent in this barbaric act would surely persuade the world to shut its doors to future Muslim refugees.
ulysses
Terrible.
Suppressing freedom of expression by religious nuts is increasing all over the world.
There is no place for such acts in a civilized society!!!
Desert Tortoise
Black and white Americans have more in common than a white American has with a white European or white Australian. Likewise white and black Americans have more in common than a black American has with a black person from Ghana or South Africa. But you have to travel a bit to realize the commonalities Americans share.
Jimizo
It needs to go deeper than that. Of course many denounce the violence, but what we need to hear is an acceptance that freedom of speech is a given in countries like France, and their religious beliefs are not above criticism or ridicule - just like other religious beliefs. This is what we don’t hear clearly enough, often enough and by enough people. Intolerance of freedom of speech is far too widespread and while attacks like this come from the extreme, the intolerance of freedom of speech is far too mainstream.
The reaction to the Charlie Hebdo massacre from many was a disgrace. Too many knee-jerk claims of racism ( how is a religion a race? ), too much ‘well, you’ve got to understand...’ excuse-making for backward ideas and too many talking about ‘Islamophobia’ on the part of a magazine which satirized all religions and everyone from the far-right to the far-left.
There is a critical problem here.
Jimizo
How many resulted in decapitations or people marching into offices and mowing people down with assault weapons for insulting these religions?
How many temples, churches or synagogues have repeatedly been in trouble with the authorities for hosting extremists promoting violence in Europe?
How many Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, Buddhist fundamentalists are on terror watch lists in Europe?
You are doing precisely the excuse-making I’m talking about.
Zaphod
u_s__reamer
The blood is barely dry, and you are already blaming the victim?? Any fascism here comes from the religionists who want to impose their religious law above the constitution. Remember that this is not an isolated case; remember what happened to the Charlie Hedbo editors, and the Bataclan theater in Paris. I could go on. The beheaders do not exist in a vacuum, they are the enforcers of an ideology that is supported by many and preached in many houses of worship.
Jimizo
It’s sad to say the jihadis largely won the war against freedom of speech on the issue of caricaturing Mohammed. Caricaturing other religious figures is of course still done.
One perspective is that a news outlet which reprints the caricatures is putting his or her staff in mortal danger. It isn’t always the decision makers who lose their lives. I must admit I’d be reticent to put my staff in the firing line. This may be cowardice on my part but I don’t know if I could live myself if jihadis decided to implement their blasphemy laws against my staff.
KnowBetter
I don't of any religion out there that sets off followers more than when you simply "discuss" cartoon versions of their 'god'. Why is that?
bob
@Toasted Heretic How many acts of terror have been perpetrated in the name of Islam vs all other religions combined since 9/11?
any guesses?
hari45
I have just been to over 40 countries and several trips some countries. My first visit to France was over 15 years ago and I felt France in general to be a safe and a developed country. My last visit in 2019 was completely different. I felt that it is not the same. The safety and the prosperity I felt was not there any more apart from magnificent historical architecture. I felt France to be unsafe and in some ways I felt petty that it was changing for worse.
Seth M
Shockingly horrible, this is what France has devolved into, and the western Europe may follow. All thanks to the diversity social experiment
Ego Sum Lux Mundi
Any cartoon of Muhammad (PBUH) goes against Islamic teachings. Even if it's some normal cartoon depicting an event from the Qur'an
u_s__reamer
This hateful act will sow seeds of hate and boost the immune system of French fascism. Democratic values are once again under threat and it is to be hoped that the French body politic can suppress the virus of racism and bigotry.
Strangerland
Only if you’ve already voted as it removes your original vote as well as applies your new one.
Jimizo
@Toasted Heretic
Just to clarify your position here, do you think there is no particular problem with violent Islamic extremism, intolerance of freedom of speech and an extraordinarIly disproportionate number of Muslims on terror watch lists in Europe?
It’s just that your what about death threats from Hindus and Buddhists is often used to try to muddy the waters.
As for Muslim friends in the UK, I left the UK nearly 25 years ago and lost touch with the few Muslims I knew along with many others. I know an Iranian bar owner in my neighbourhood who regards himself as a cultural Muslim.
I prefer to look at polls when judging reactions. I can’t imagine your circle of Muslim friends in the UK include the quarter of British Muslims who had some sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo butchers.
bob
So you do know the answer and don't want to engage.
Thats fine. I wouldn't either.
Ego Sum Lux Mundi
Anyone who has dealt with Muslim culture understands that religion permeates daily life in a way that no longer exists in the West.
Anyone who has read a bit about the history of the Muslim world and the Qur'an understands that the concept of jihad is applied to every aspect of life. They also know jihad is eternal until all the peoples of the world are Muslims.
Sadly, most Western liberals and conservatives are ignorant of all these facts. And then they wonder why their "civic nationalism" is rejected by Muslims.
WilliB
Toasted Heretic
Because there always morons who make "death threats" in the anonymous world of the internet.
However, your fishing expedition only yielded empty words. Now try to find examples of fundamentalist Christians or Buddhists actually beheading people to shouts of "Buddha/Jesus is great" in real life. You will come up empty.
WilliB
Toasted Heretic
Alas, opinion polls show that there is also a very large percentage that approves of punishing blasphemy (which cartooning Mohammed is) with death, as per Shariah law. You might want want to read the Pew Poll about opinions in the muslim world. It will rattle your wishful thinking bubble a bit.
Sal Affist
I condemn this violence. It is the work of the devil infecting the heart of a youth.
I support free speech.
@Bob, you'll find the downvotes popping in because another commenter is online at the same time as you and is simultaneously providing a vote, but your page hasn't updated between the time they voted and the time the page refreshed for your vote (and it therefore captures all of the recent votes when it refreshes). Go to some other article with little interest and you are unlikely to be reading and voting at the time another JT commenter is also voting, and you won't see your votes being countered.
Richard Gallagher
There is no information about the attack other than the basic facts in regards to the actual killing.
There is no evidence linking the killer to a terrorist group. Whatever the motivation it was a gruesome act of murder.
The teacher who presented a lesson, employing the Hebdo caricature, asked the Muslim students to leave the classroom, so that they would not be offended by the cartoon.
According to the French newspaper Le Monde, some Muslim parents complained to the school about the teacher's decision to use one or more of the cartoons as part of a discussion about the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
What happened?
The municipal police of Conflans Sainte-Honorine alerted the national police after discovering a decapitated person. The local police officers first arrived at the scene around 17:00 on Friday, France 3 Ile-de-France reports.
A man wielding a large knife reportedly attacked the teacher in the street before running off.
The police pursued him and confronted him in the nearby district Éragny.
He shot at police with an air pistol (a non-lethal weapon), FranceInfo reports. The police fired ten shots and killed the assailant. The police had asked him to put down his weapon, but he refused, FranceInfo reports.
Police have provided few other details about the attacker, the victim or the incident.
OnTheTrail
This is a disgusting reward for a country that brought this person (or his parents) in as refugees.
Chechnya is a race? Who knew?
Ah_so
And given that racism is such an incredibly loose term, it is quite hard to separate from many other things. Defining a "race" is an incredibly hard thing to do. Is it skin colour or skull shape?
Chechens are pretty different from the French, so I think it is fair to call out racism.
stormcrow
Grotesque!
We didn't see this coming! , one person said.
What's the moral of the story? Silence is golden? Either put up or shut up?
TARA TAN KITAOKA
Killing is never good.
tokyo-star
so one of the kids complained and this nut job somehow got wind of the teacher's class content.
was the teacher abducted at knifepoint away from the school, or did he barge into the school grounds and take him out to the street? article doesn't seem to go into details...
bob
no, these were first time votes.
Ah_so
What point are your trying to make? I understand that some Muslims are like that - but so what? I understand why this boy murdered his teacher, but I strongly disagree with it.
Given your avatar, I would have thought that you are a Christian, so I don't understand your PBUH thing. You would surely only say this if you are a Muslim.
WilliB
Ah_so
The point that Ego sum lux mundi (quite a username...) made was that islam does not have a separation between religion and church, while modern Western countries (still) do.
In the islamic world, that is a constant struggle. There are some countries that have this separation written into their constitution (e.g. Turkey, Azerbeijan, Indonesia), but that separation is under constant assault from the islamic parties. In Turkey, Kemalism has already been largeley dismantled by Erdogan. In Indonesia, they have given up to the islamists in some areas (i.e. Azeh), and others are to follow.
The West is still holding out, do we really still have freedom of speech? Can you even discuss a cartoon of the prophet in France today and feel safe?
Toasted Heretic
Ah, yes. The old "now is not the time". "Thoughts and prayers", etc
Now is the exactly the time. One can be compassionate and try to prevent far right backlashes. Not mutually exclusive.
Toasted Heretic
Horrific.
There are plenty of Muslims who repeatedly around the world who denounce such acts of violence.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-pulse-nightclub-muslims-condemn-attack/
https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2015/12/anti-muslim_muslim_terrorists.html
https://ing.org/global-condemnations-of-isis-isil/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-attack-isis-muslim-council-britain-westminster-terror-cowardly-depraved-harun-khan-solidarity-islam-community-a7646201.html
https://mcb.org.uk/resources/muslims-against-terrorism/
Toasted Heretic
People in the UK used to say similar things about the Irish in the 70s.
Send 'em home and all that. Innocent Irish people beaten up, attacked, kicked out of their lodgings, arrested because of curtain twitching neighbors.
And of course, the internment of innocent men and women in the occupied 6 counties - which only fed the ranks of the IRA.
Why is it up to Muslims to do something? I mean, obviously (as posted above) there are many, many Muslims and organizations that speak out but it's not like the entire Muslim world is one big monolithic blob.
It's like telling all white people to debate on acts of violence/terror carried out by other white people.
bob
as an aside, has anyone noticed that upvoting or downvoting a comment automatically adds the opposite vote as a negation??
Toasted Heretic
Not at all.
There's no excuse for the violence. None.
When you say
Out of interest, do you ask your Muslim friends, colleagues or neighbors to do the same when something like that happens in the UK? And how do they react?
Toasted Heretic
Death threats were made to BBC bosses after the Christian parody Jerry Springer - The Opera aired.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-333419/BBC-boss-hiding.html
Death threats were made to the Hindu parody site Humans of Hindutva.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/31/indian-parody-facebook-closes-hindu-death-threats-humans-of-hindutva
Buddhists made threats to Christians in Sri Lanka
https://www.newstatesman.com/node/161940
Why is that?
isoducky
As there are as many sects of Islam as there are of Christianity and Buddhism , requiring muslims to have a conversation about the level of extremist within their total collective ranks is asinine. The person responsible for this crime is no different from ultra right nationalist or ultra left anti-facisit. Both of which use their own religious values as justification for their actions.
Toasted Heretic
Given that Bush and Blair claimed that their deity guided their choice to bomb, murder and maim hundreds of thousands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's hard to give an exact number. But those particular two terrorists certainly killed a lot of people.
It's a calamity. It really is.
commanteer
Maybe not a great idea to opine about unrealized fears of potential racism while the body of a beheaded teacher and father is still warm. It shows a severe lack of compassion.
talaraedokko
caricature
/ˈkarɪkətjʊə,ˈkarɪkətʃɔː/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
What's a history teacher doing playing with sensitivities of students & his surrounding society? Whereas no one condones his decapitation I also don't condone his total insensitivity for his environment. What of the school board? This has nothing to do with free speech, this is about creating a harmonious society.
proxy
The act of an extremely disturbed individual. The left will rush to defend Muslims (rightfully so) but forget how they layed the blame for a few nuts trying to kidnap the governor of Michigan at Trump's feet.
Can we all agree that there are nuts in the world and they will latch onto whatever is happening in society to justify the crazy thoughts in their brains?