Freedom or folly? UK's end to mandatory masks sows confusion

Transpot for London and all the major supermarkets want staff and customers to continue to wear masks.

Masks are essential, on public transport, supermarkets , but most importantly maintaining social distance protocols.

The underlining issue/circumstance that has prompted Johnson's government to take such a drastic high risk strategy is the economic consequences in continuing with pandemic countermeasures lockdowns.

The next action/decision will be to take a comprehensive review of track and trace.

Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (the furlough scheme) has been extended until 30 September 2021, I would be prepared for the furlough scheme to be phased out entirely soon after

This could bring mass unemployment/ extreme hardship for many families.

The published numbers and data

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/government-borrowing-peacetime-record-confirmed/

Latest REACT-1 study findings show COVID-19 infection rates 3 times lower for double vaccinated people

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/latest-react-1-study-findings-show-covid-19-infection-rates-three-times-lower-for-double-vaccinated-people

Please take time and review, it these numbers are correct, then there is a likelihood that around 35% of new infections are adults that are fully vaccinated.

It is imperative that people take precautions, mask plus social distancing.

Mandates or not I'm wearing double surgical masks in public for the indefinite future, just like all those Asian airline travelers I have seen in airports for the last unpteen years. I haven't had a cold in over 18 months and kind of like it that way. Who cares what anybody else thinks about it?

The history books are going to feature headlines like

“Humanity tears itself apart over piece of cloth”.

In a world-first, British scientists are set to explore giving sufferers monthly doses of the vaccine in a bid to combat the condition.

http://www.businesstelegraph.co.uk/patients-with-long-covid-to-receive-monthly-vaccines-in-trial-in-cure-hope-as-1-in-10-with-bug-suffer-chronic-symptoms/

The current spike proves masks don’t work.

The current spike proves masks don’t work.

The current spike is a reflection of low vaccination rates and the refusal of many to wear masks and take other appropriate precautions. Very few where I live wear masks any more and even at the height of the pandemic we had stubborn souls who refused to anything recommended by the medical profession with some businesses blatantly ignoring Covid regulations. Even now the region in which I live has only half the vaccination rate of our state as a whole and the place I work gets chided by our headquarters for the number of employees out with Covid compared to other parts of the organization.

If vaccinated people still have to wear masks it means the vaccines don't work.

and

The current spike proves masks don’t work.

Do not employ these people under any circumstances.

Quick and serious question:

Who is more at risk, or more of a public health risk;

a/ a masked person who is not vaccinated

b/ an unmasked person who has been vaccinated.

The answer should dictate public policy IMHO.

This never ends. Our masters are just too scared of rising infections or whatever. Look at Singapore. After saying we will have to learn to live with covid a small spike caused by a hostess at a ktv and they immediately go back to harder restrictions. Will be the same in the uk. Being vaccinated has changed almost nothing.

> Quick and serious question: 

Who is more at risk, or more of a public health risk;

a/ a masked person who is not vaccinated

b/ an unmasked person who has been vaccinated.

The answer should dictate public policy IMHO.

Why is it that the “free thinkers” only ever think in 2 colours or choices?

UK has to pay a steep price for both its folly and freedom.

Who is to take responsibility of any unacceptable eventuality?..

Tortoise- I think many are fed up with these mandates, that produce detrimental results to society as a whole, in many places. Funny the media doesn't mention the suicides, OD's, kids depressed, etc. All who want the vaccine have received it. There are highly effective therapeutics. That there will be an unlucky few- the unvaccinated young or fully vaccinated vulnerable people that succumb to COVID- either case is highly, highly unlikely- is a poor reason to keep everyone burdened with never-ending mandates. COVID risk has diminished greatly since March 2020 in the UK (and USA).

Interestingly, King's College reports that 47% of new COVID cases in the UK are from those having received at least one vaccine dose. The vaccine clearly doesn't totally prevent COVID, but it will prevent serious illness. I think for most in the 40+ crowd, vaccines make sense. But people by now have to make their own choice.

Interestingly, King's College reports that 47% of new COVID cases in the UK are from those having received at least one vaccine dose.

At least one doesn’t cut it.

In the US over 99% of recent Covid hospitalisations and deaths are the unvaccinated. But I don’t find it ‘interesting’.

Bob, nothing to do with free thinking. Just a valid question I think. Care to answer it? Or provide other alternatives? I think we can at least agree that unmasked and unvaccinated are the least safe.

I think we can at least agree that unmasked and unvaccinated are the least safe.

Well done.

Wear a mask, get vaccinated, wear a mask.

It’s simple, no need to muddy the water further.

The best way to stay healthy is to breath fresh clean air and to keep your body clean and free of toxic chemicals.

No medical professional would disagree with that.

But the issue here is a potentially lethal virus. I think a brisk walk in the mountains isn’t going to cut it.

“I just think vulnerable people will feel that they don’t want to venture out,” she said.

Maybe vulnerable people should not venture out.

And I thought the UK had a high vaccination rate?

Quick and serious question:

Who is more at risk, or more of a public health risk;

a/ a masked person who is not vaccinated

b/ an unmasked person who has been vaccinated.

The answer should dictate public policy IMHO.

Why do so many things in life require a binary choice? I see that in so many public policy debates. It's either this or that and nothing else. Real life isn't that simple. We live in a world filled with ambiguity. Nothing is black and white. Rather the Confucian notion of Yin-Yang is a better way to look at the world

I look at Covid precautions from a probabilistic point of view and ask how much does each choice reduce the spread of the disease. I would probably not say only do the one with the greatest impact. See how much impact they have if done together. Both measures employed together they have a greater impact on stopping this pandemic than doing either alone. That seems like the better choice to me. Remember no vaccine is ever 100% effective and even with the vaccine you can carry it and pass it along without getting sick yourself. I am fully vaccinated and will wear masks for the foreseeable future. I'm ok with that considering the alternatives. This is the life we have. If more people would be vaccinated we could return to normal more quickly. I have done my part.

Maybe vulnerable people should not venture out.

Kind of a shame that many of us who have taken the initiative to be vaccinated are still held back in life by so many others we share a society with who refuse to do the right thing. We are dragging a big ball and chain around, weighed down by the ignorance and bloody minded perversity of others.

Tortoise- I think many are fed up with these mandates, that produce detrimental results to society as a whole, in many places. Funny the media doesn't mention the suicides, OD's, kids depressed, etc. 

That is because too many people in rich countries are acting like spoiled brats instead of exercising adult restraint. Freedom comes with obligations, to your neighbors, to your community and to your nation. Your personal freedom ends when what you do harms me, my family or my property. Everyone in a community or nation has an obligation to support their communities and their nation through obeying laws, paying taxes and sometimes in an emergency sacrificing some of that cherished personal freedom for the sake of something larger than yourself. What I see are bunch of stubborn spoiled little brats whining "you can't tell me to do that". They are just like my 6yo and I have about as much respect for their tantrums as I have for the 6yo when he throws a fit. My word to the deniers and those who refuse to be vaccinated is to stop acting like a sniveling baby and, maybe for the first time in your life, act like a mature well adjusted adult and do something not because you want to but because it is the right thing to do for your community and your nation. There are things that are larger and more important than your immediate wants.

Burning Bush

If vaccinated people still have to wear masks it means the vaccines don't work.

They don't. But there are a lot of unvaccinated people. They need to wear masks. Unfortunately, you can't tell if someone is vaccinated by their looks.

Wobot

Sweden won. The lockdown experiment failed

Compare Sweden to New Zealand. Or if you think that is unfair, Norway and Finland.

Sweden lost. The lockdown experiment succeeded.