French film about Holocaust to be shown in Iran

Cool.

The Aladdin Project tried twice to get a green light from Iranian authorities to hold a news conference in Tehran about the killing of Jews during World War II, but received no response...

Tehran already had a conference about the holocaust, where both sides were discussed freely. They should have attended that one.

I wonder why they got no response from Iran. Maybe the Aladdin Project only wanted one side to be presented at their "conference".

At the very least, Iranians “will have the chance to form their own opinions” about the Holocaust.

True, being exposed to different views on a subject allows people to have informed opinions...

sabiwabi,

"Tehran already had a conference about the holocaust, where both sides were discussed freely. They should have attended that one." I cant believe you are still pedalling that rubbish. Everyone (except the pro Iran, anti Jew crowd) knows exactly what this conference was about its well documented. It was a holocaust denial excerise attended by the worlds lowlifes. "I wonder why they got no response from Iran. Maybe the Aladdin Project only wanted one side to be presented at their "conference"." Gee maybe they got no response from Iran because it didnt fit into their little holocaust denial love in they held.

AdamB,

Speakers representing both sides were at the Iran conference to present their views and data. Such a conference or other free discussion of revisionist views and data is illegal in Europe. So if anyone here has an agenda, it is not Iran.

I am sure the Aladdin Project would never take part in free discussion of revisionist views and data.

Moderator: Back on topic please. The subject is the French documentary being shown in Iran.

sabiwabi,

The fact is there was NO two sides at all at the conference this was pointed out to you previously and you know that. The only way that the truth about the holocaust can be shown in Iran is via satellite as it will not be shown on Iranian tv and we all know that the dictatorial state Iran bans the use of satalitte dishes. So it would be a brave (and potentially dead) person to sit down and watch the un Iranian version

I am sure the Aladdin Project would never take part in free discussion of revisionist views and data.

Good. I am glad to hear they don't support a racist faulty agenda.

They should have attended that one.

Maybe David Duke got their ticket instead.

In Iran, the only opinions allowed are those the Iranian government deem legal. That is not freedom of speech or expression. Good on this group for beaming it into Iran. Hopefully more and more Iranians will see it and understand the horrors of the Holocaust and the lies of those who seek to deny it.

Lanzmann's film is a great work of art.

Lanzmann says the documentary may be an effective vehicle to counter the Holocaust denial.

I've read of people who believe the earth is flat, and who can't accept that people have walked on the moon. Anyone of European or American descent who believes that millions of people did not perish in Nazi concentration camps is quite crazy. Here's hoping that more Iranians will be able to tell who the crazies are in their society as a result of this effort.

The two main points Ahmadinejad often makes about the holocaust are:

1) It did not happen

2) Stop complaining

You don't want to 'freely discuss' the Holocaust anymore than Ahmadinejad does. You just want to keep repeating that it did not happen and keep questioning why people don't like the Nazis.

Iran does not outlaw public expression of the official version

Iran outlaws anything that does not go with their version of things. No protests or opposing views, no outside TV or media, etc. That is not freedom of speech.

Ahmadinejad was quoted by his own government's news agency many times as threatening Israel. His people know it, the world knows it and you know it too. If fact, you agree with it.

Anyone of European or American descent who believes that millions of people did not perish in Nazi concentration camps is quite crazy.

Agree 100%.

promote understanding between Jews and Muslims and to fight Holocaust denial.

I have not seen the film. I wonder if it covers the collaboration between the Muslims and the Nazis during the Holocaust? Does it show the meetings between the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler? Just wondering.

sabi: where both sides were discussed freely.

When you post things like "where both sides were discussed freely", do you actually believe you're going to convince someone of something so nonsensical? Neo-Nazi David Duke was a keynote speaker at the conference for goodness sakes.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned historical accounts of the Holocaust...

The two main points Ahmadinejad often makes about the holocaust are:

Why can't we freely investigate and discuss the holocaust in Europe?

The holocaust happened in Europe, so why are the Palestinians paying for it?

Those are the two main questions he has often asked, and nobody seems to be able to give him an adequate answer. He believes people should be able to freely investigate and discuss the holocaust, so I don't think he will mind too much the showing of this movie in Iran. It will hopefully stimulate intense debate. A society that only permits one view is not a healthy society.

There are still on going debates about the actual number killed in the holocaust, though anyone can not deny it happened and was an attempt to remove all Jew, Gypsies, gays and other minorities.

In Iran many are afraid to speak the truth about many things especialy in the media for fear of reprisals from extremist nut jobs.

He believes people should be able to freely investigate and discuss the holocaust, so I don't think he will mind too much the showing of this movie in Iran. It will hopefully stimulate intense debate. A society that only permits one view is not a healthy society.

You really know so little about Iran and Ahmadinejad, it is literally frightening.

1) Satelite dishes to pick up foreign broadcasts are illegal in Iran. 2) This documentary will be broadcast by satelite. 3)Only people brave enough to have illegal satelite TV will be able to tune in. 4) Ahmadinejad is against any sort of protest or speech he and his government do not agree with. 5) Iran is a society that only permits one view, its view, and yes, it is not a healthy society. 6)Palestinians have nothing to do with this. 7)Millions were slaughtered by the Nazis, so Europe understandably sensitive about nuts saying the slaughter did not happen or that the Nazis were just fun-loving lugs. 8) There ain't gonna be any intense debate about this in Iran cause intense debate is prevented in Iran by the barrel of a gun.

stevecpfc, Good post! 100% agree!

There are still on going debates about the actual number killed in the holocaust, though anyone can not deny it happened and was an attempt to remove all Jew, Gypsies, gays and other minorities.

The debate is not simply about numbers.

atamant,

1-3) Thank you for stating what is clearly described in the article. But the satellite dishes being illegal has nothing to do with the holocaust.

4) Ahmadinejad encourages discussion of the holocaust. Videos by academics giving presentations in Iran of the official version of the holocaust can be seen online. So regarding the holocaust, the subject of this thread, Iran allows free expression.

5) Regarding the holocaust, the subject of this thread, Europe is a society that only permits one view, its view, and yes, it is not a healthy society.

6) Exactly, the Palestinians have nothing to do with the holocaust, but they have paid the heaviest price for compensation. That is the point Ahmadinejad and I, and many others, have been making.

7) Are you referring to the war or the holocaust?

8) Regarding the holocaust, the subject of this thread, Iran encourages debate while Europe prevents any debate of the holocaust with heavy jail sentences.

sabiwabi; Your claims are false about Europe. I come from Britain and debate including holocaust denial is legal.

Sabiwabi,

Can l just clarify a few things for you. "1-3) Thank you for stating what is clearly described in the article. But the satellite dishes being illegal has nothing to do with the holocaust." This has everything to do with this debate as the only way this documentary can reach some Iranians is via satellite however satellite is illegal in Iran. Can you please tell me why this is given your earlier statement "A society that only permits one view is not a healthy society."

"Ahmadinejad encourages discussion of the holocaust. Videos by academics giving presentations in Iran of the official version of the holocaust can be seen online. So regarding the holocaust, the subject of this thread, Iran allows free expression" He encourages and promotes holocaust denial and that is widely documented. as for Iran allowing free expression, how can you say that when satellite dishes are banned. Isnt that restricting ones liberties?

As for your point 5 if you read the law the holocaust denial is part of a wider law that covers racism and xenophobia. It is not a stand alone law it is aimed at reducing a certain tyoe of racism.

Point 6. What price have the Palestinians paid. Everything that has happened to them is either brought about by themselves (their terrorist organisations) or the Arab nations hell bent on destroying Israel. I dont hear you jumping up and down about the religious killing in Iraq or the treatment of the Kurds in Turkey. Yet if Israel protects itself you and the Iranian dictator get upset.

sabiwabi,

Illegal satelite dishes have to do with the lack of free speech in Iran. You know the place you incorrectly claimed has all that free speech. Do try to keep track. Ahmadinejad and his government only allow discussion or information they agree with. Thus the fact satelite dishes to view information from the outside world being illegal. They obviously don't allow free discussion of the Holocaust as the program is not being shown on state TV. It has to be beamed in illegally. I know you do not believe the Nazis gassed millions, but they did and Europeans know this and are understandably sensitive to nuts claiming that it did not happen. Don't like it? Tough luck. The Palestinians still have nothing to do with this no matter how much you bring them up or how much you claim no one was gassed by the Nazis, you know: the Holocaust that you claim did not happen. Iran discourages any debate that brings an opinion that runs counter to the government opinion. You really should consider ECT.

The debate is not simply about numbers.

Yes, so you say. Based on your own words in other threads, you claim the Nazis did not gas anyone and cannot understand why anyone would think the Nazis were bad. We get it. You are wrong. Get that.

He encourages and promotes holocaust denial and that is widely documented. as for Iran allowing free expression, how can you say that when satellite dishes are banned.

When I wrote that "the satellite dishes being illegal has nothing to do with the holocaust" I meant that it is not because of the holocaust that they are illegal, or that it is not for fear of "holocaust education" that they were made illegal.

If he was so hell bent on promoting holocaust denial, why did he have a conference open to both sides of the holocaust debate. Your comments don't make any sense.

As for your point 5, there are specific laws, regarding the holocaust.

As for your point 6, I see you continue to blame the victims of this genocide, that is quite a reprehensible view to have. The Palestinians were kicked off their land (killing many of them) to provide a home for the European Jews, who were persecuted by the Germans. And the "settlements" continue to grow today.

sabiwabi,

How exactly do you know better why satelite dishes are illegal in Iran? They are to squash free speech and debate, which is exactly the opposite of your saying Iran has such free speech. He did not have a conference open to both sides, it was a conference open to nuts who deny the Holocaust happened and racists like Duke who was warmly invited by Ahmadinejad. Yes, there are specific laws that mentioned denial of the Holocaust and the reason has been discussed. The Europeans are naturally sensitive about the slaughter caused in Europe by the Nazis gassing all those millions. Perfectly understandable that they don't want it to happen again. The Palestinians have nothing to do with this discussion. Any particular reason why you are so obsessed with anything and everything pertaining to Jews? Did you get stuck with a Star of David when you were a kid or something?

Lanzmann's film is a great work of art.

Indeed it is. Its quite interesting to look at this guy's career. Lanzmann had an obscure career as a proof-reading journalist with the popular press.

In 1973, he released his first film, a documentary about Israel. In 1977, he was able to convince Israeli Prime Minister Begin to contribute $850,000 in Israel government funds for Shoah, which Begin saw as "a Jewish national interest." Additional funds were made available from non-government Israeli sources, and from the French government.

Thank God he was able to get funding for this marvelous project.

Thank God he was able to get funding for this marvelous project.

I agree. Let's hope it continues to be a successful tool against the nuts that deny the Holocaust. Lord knows the Holocaust denial nuts don't have anything resembling truth on their sides.

Its quite interesting to look at this guy's career.

It seems quite obvious that his career stands up more strongly than a glimpse at your past posts discussing your opinion that the Holocaust did not happen.

sabiwabi,

"When I wrote that "the satellite dishes being illegal has nothing to do with the holocaust" I meant that it is not because of the holocaust that they are illegal, or that it is not for fear of "holocaust education" that they were made illegal." I am not suggesting that it is purely for the purpose of denying the holocaust it is for the purpose of denying his people access to the rest of the world and news his dictatorship dont want people to know about. It is censureship at its best, make anything you cant control illegal.

"If he was so hell bent on promoting holocaust denial, why did he have a conference open to both sides of the holocaust debate. Your comments don't make any sense" Sabi we have been through this before his charade of an open and honest dialog is not accurate. How can holocaust survivors attend (a good percentage now reside in Israel) and as such cannot get into Iran. Remember Israeli's cant enter Iran.

"As for your point 5, there are specific laws, regarding the holocaust." Indeed there are as l said they are a section of the laws that try to stop racism and xenophobia. They are all in the same laws, they are all aimed at stopping racism and the rise of hate crimes.

"As for your point 6, I see you continue to blame the victims of this genocide, that is quite a reprehensible view to have. The Palestinians were kicked off their land (killing many of them) to provide a home for the European Jews, who were persecuted by the Germans. And the "settlements" continue to grow today." I am not blaming the individual Palestinians. If you look at the history there was a Kingdom of Israel and a Philistine state as far back as 830 BC and they are roughly in the same position as they are now except Israel is now bigger of course. The reason the Palistinians lost their land is imo simple the likes of Syria, Jordan, Egypt all attacked Israel and got defeated as such they lost some of their land. Unfortunately that land belonged to the Palestinians and as they aligned themselves with the losing sides they lost their land. Simplistic but thats how most borders are formed by wars and conflicts look through history.

I would like to actually focus on this documentary for a bit. As yabits pointed out, it is a work of art. I saw it quite some time ago. However, the interviews it contains are invaluable for understanding what it was like for the victims of the Nazi brutality. Claude Lanzmann’s tremendous efforts will enable future generations to know about the horrible crimes of the Nazi regime and what their victims went through. I am glad people like this are willing to devote their own time to help educate others and I am particular glad that an effort is being made to break through the Iranian regime's wall of silence.

Sabiwabi,

As for the holocaust laws in Europe. Do you know why they are such an important aspect of the law, because it was in Europe that the holocaust happened and it happened because people didnt protect the minorities from hate crimes and yes the main victims where Jews, there where others persicuted (Homosexuals, other religions, disabled etc). This occured because people did nothing and if it takes a law to stop the rise of the Hitlers, Ahmadinejad's, David Dukes and Sabiwabi's of the world then its a good thing. As the saying goes, "if we dont learn from history we are doomed to repeat it".

In fact its ironic and l guess sums up Ahmadinejad's logic he is very much like a modern Hilter in many ways, Hilter hated Jews as does Ahmadinejad, Hilter persecuted and killed homosexuals as does Ahmadinejad, Hilter persicuted the disabled as does Ahmadinejad. So l guess its understandable why Ahmadinejad is so anti Jew he models himself on Hilter obviously.....

Atamant,

Considering the west has already succeeded in overthrowing Iran's democratically elected leader in 1953, and have ever since continued to try to exert their influence in Iran, it is somewhat understandable (but I don't fully support it) that they would want to ban satellite dishes to help curb the west's influence.

Do you have any evidence that the holocaust was behind the banning of satellite dishes? As I wrote (twice already), it makes no sense to make satellite dishes illegal to prevent the people from hearing one side of the holocaust debate, and at the same time have a conference where both sides can be heard.

As I said many times:

both sides were invited

out of 33 papers presented, only 6 were by "holocaust deniers"

a Canadian University professor (not a denier) was widely condemned in the west (not Iran) for attending the conference. If most official holocaust experts chose not to go, tough luck.

So I can't see how showing this Israeli-funded movie will change much in the minds of Iranians. They are probably already familiar with both sides of the debate.

Sabiwabi,

"a Canadian University professor (not a denier) was widely condemned in the west (not Iran) for attending the conference" Yes that was Professor Shiraz Dossa a Professor of estern political theory and foreign policy, and Arab/Muslim culture and politics. He is also well known as Anti US, anti Israel stance. No suprises there

AdamB,

You have made some brilliant comments; bravo!

It is censureship at its best, make anything you cant control illegal.

Exactly, couldn't agree more!

"if we dont learn from history we are doomed to repeat it"

Exactly, that is why we should investigate and discuss it.

Hilter hated Jews as does Ahmadinejad

Hitler and Ahmadinejad are complete opposites. Ahmadinejad does indeed seem to dislike zionists, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he hates Jews. The same can be said about Sabiwabi.

Sabiwabi,

"It is censureship at its best, make anything you cant control illegal. Exactly, couldn't agree more!" So you agree with my statement that Iran's control of the media amounts to censurship glad to finally find common ground.

""if we dont learn from history we are doomed to repeat it" Exactly, that is why we should investigate and discuss it." Investigate yes by all means but the revisionist methods i.e. denying the holocaust dooms us to repeat this. As can be seen in Iran and there anti jewish anti homosexual attitudes they hark back to the 40's Nazi Germany styles.

" Ahmadinejad does indeed seem to dislike zionists, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he hates Jews" nice play on words as the definition of Zionism is "Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland" That really makes it one and the same. And as Ahmadinejad has in the past refered to Israel (hence Jews) as germs and declared his wish to see them annihalated l would say he is anti Jew.

So you agree with my statement that Iran's control of the media amounts to censurship glad to finally find common ground.

Yep, but as far as the holocaust is concerned, Iran does not censor. In contrast, most European countries censor the holocaust very aggressively.

Investigate yes by all means but the revisionist methods i.e. denying the holocaust dooms us to repeat this.

They use the scientific method.

Zionism (Hebrew: ציו$ות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement ...

So someone who criticizes Al Quaeda is anti-Muslim??? That was an interesting attempt at logic...

but as far as the holocaust is concerned, Iran does not censor

Yeah, they just censor pretty much every other kind of free speech and protest. How wonderfully free.

In contrast, most European countries censor the holocaust very aggressively.

No. They censor nuts who deny the Holocasut. There is a big difference.

They use the scientific method.

No. They don't. They use lies and deceit mix with good helpings of hate.

Your comparing people believing in Israel having a right to exist with Al Quaida is ridiculous. You and Ahmadinejad seem to think it is a crime to agree that Israel has a right to exist. You both are wrong.

This is a great documentary with moving and important interviews. I highly recommend people watch it.

I hear Sawabi's nominated it for best fantasy film of the year.

This is a great documentary with moving and important interviews. I highly recommend people watch it.

Indeed, I too recommend people watch it. I particularly recommend the interview of Abraham Bomba, a barber at Treblinka; quite interesting...

Indeed, I think it is quite safe to say the interviews in this documentary stand up extremely well in comparison to posts of people sadly attempting to claim the Holocaust did not happen.

Nessie,

Best post of the thread!

Indeed, I think it is quite safe to say the interviews in this documentary stand up extremely well in comparison to posts of people sadly attempting to claim the Holocaust did not happen.

What is sad is that there are still posts attempting to claim that some people say the Holocaust did not happen. Nobody says "the holocaust did not happen", including Ahmadinejad. You really should try to find out what revisionists claim before calling them crazy, nuts, racist...

Nessie, I agree, best post of the thread!

I have read enough to know that they are in fact crazy, racist nuts.

To add, these crazy, racist nuts often incorrectly claim millions of innocent people were not killed in concentration camps by the Nazis. They use lies and deceit to make this claims. No reason to consider their fantasies as anything more than hate inspired.

I have read enough to know that they are in fact crazy, racist nuts.

Who knows what you read, but I have read enough to know that many are in fact intelligent, informed, and rational; as well as being very kind.

There are in fact crazy, racist nuts everywhere who believe many different things; such as those who believe that to the Muslims, there is no greater crime than being Christian.

Who knows what you read

Just reading your posts describing the opinions of Holocaust deniers is quite enough actually. That and your inaccurate claim that only one religion is protected against racism in France and your further incorrect claim that it was Jews being unfairly protected. You are correct that there are crazy racist nuts that incorrectly believe the Nazis did not gass and kill millions of innocent people in their camps of horror. They really should be ashamed of themselves.

Just reading your posts describing the opinions of Holocaust deniers...

No, that is not permitted here...

Anyway, what makes the people of the Alladin Project think that anyone in Iran would want to see this 26-year-old Israeli-funded movie?

No, that is not permitted here...

Your posts suggest otherwise.

What makes you think nobody would want to see it? Just because Ahmadinejad and his government don't want Iranians to see and have free contact with the outside world does not mean the average Iranian is satisfied with that situation. Of course, watching it in Iran would mean having and using an illegal satelite dish because Ahmadinejad and his gang are so afraid their hold on their citizens is not strong enough to survive outside information.