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Suspect in France shootings claims he wanted to avenge Palestinian children

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I hope they've got him.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Well, I hope that this will not cause too much of a backlash for the Muslims in France. In order to get rid of those radicals that are subverting their religion, Muslims need to start cleaning their own house and not allowing those morons who do these types of things to paint all of them in the same manner.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I hope they've got him.

Me too, despite the back packing we are about to witness, that will of course be done while overlooking everything that was declared incorrectly.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This is like watching a remake of "The Day of the Jackal."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

back packing

Er...back patting

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I hope they've got him.

I hope so too, but I'm guessing this is plural, and more than one involved. Hope the killing ends here at least.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

He is upset at the murder and destruction brought against the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Palestine; so he decides to kill people in France. France? Why France?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Some things upset me too, but I don't feel that blasting away homicidally with a .45 calibre automatic is going to make them stop.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Quite a few here were mentioning that is was a right wing nutjob.

Not one single person posted that it it was for sure a right wing nutjob. Anyone who used those words CLEARLY indicated that was their suspicion or the suspicion of the French government.

Why do people insist on putting words in the mouths of others like that? Is it fun? How about growing up?

At any rate, I will go on record as saying that he is a NUTJOB. But keep in mind I never said and am not now saying what kind of nutjob he personally thinks he is, whether Muslim, right wing, Christian, left wing, Zionist, Communist, Manifest Destinist or tuba playing NUTJOB.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

All readers calm down and please discuss this rationally as mature adults.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So, I guess the military targets were due to French involvement in Afghanistan and not due to the race of the soldiers. The attack on the Jewish school was raw anti-semitism. Interesting.

If he really really wanted to "avenge Palestinian children", then he should attack Hamas, as they are causing most of the pain. Also, countries like Egypt and Syria who for decades have refused to grant citizenship to the Palestinians within their borders.

It sounds like the usual salad bar of grievances trotted out by the terrorist community.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Then I guess he's a self proclaimed Jihadist carrying out his insane killings on his own merit.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is interesting that the reasons for the killings were to avenge others that have been killed aka as revenge. It seems that this motive will continue the killing and in fact perpetrate it even more. With the web it is possible to view almost any type of military conflict/action across the world in real-time.

What seems to be a distant event can have repercussions close to home. There are not many societies without large scale immigrant populations which may feel foreign events more keenly than the indigenous population.The killings occurred in France and as anyone will know, it has a large immigrant population especially in the major cities.

Also, it seems that Al-Qaeda rather than being a vast network of well funded terror cells is more of an ideal that appeals to certain Arab/Muslims as a way to take this revenge.

Unfortunately, there is no way for any society to protect itself adequately against this type of threat except for foreign policy to change.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The attack on the Jewish school was raw anti-semitism.

I don't think it was. The guy attacked Christians as well. The guy is a nut job, end of story.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

i think he is just a nutter who needed an excuse.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

We are gonna hear these kind of stories like 911, London subway, Spain, etc every few years until Israel leaves the Pails alone, and the Americans leave the black gold alone. This will never happen so I'm sure something bigger than 911 would come. The solution is so simple. But greed by Israel and America will not allow for peace in the world.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

A nut job, yes. End of story, no.

It is no coincidence that the school he attacked just happened to be a Jewish school. He was obviously looking for it, otherwise his motivation of getting revenge for Palestinians would make no sense. The standard Islamist sees connections between the militaries of western countries and Israel, since they often work/train together. Also sees connections between Jews anywhere and Israel/Israeli policies. It's the terrorist scumbag version of "two birds with one stone".

Naru: Israel will leave the Pals alone when the Pals stop shooting rockets into Israel. Israel pulled out of Gaza and what happened? The place fell to pieces. The Gazans turned on each other, destroyed the infrastructure left for them by the departing Israelis, and essentially proved to the world that they are not ready for statehood.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well said naruhodo - and Dennis!

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

This is just the kind of news that Right wing American and Israelis want. It helps them push their agenda and spread fear ,some comments left here prove that 100%.

naruhodo1; This types of incidents will be used to blame Arabs more and more.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

That was the easiest prediction ever.

Now for the second part: The media will be busy insisting that his ideology has nothing to do with his crime, and will look for explanations of why the poor fellow snapped.

Had he been somebody else, e.g. some crazed nazi type. the opposite would be true.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

tmarie:

" I don't think it was. The guy attacked Christians as well. The guy is a nut job, end of story. "

Gee... an islamist attacking Christians? Total unheard, is it. Tell that to the survivinv Christians in Egypt or Nigeria among the smoldering ruins of their churches.

How far do you want to suspend disbelief to blank out any discussion the ideology that drove him?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I don't think it was. The guy attacked Christians as well. The guy is a nut job, end of story.

He deliberately targeted a Jewish school. Even if his other victims were Christians, that doesn't make what he did at the SCHOOL any less an act of naked, raw anti-Semitism. Stop trying to say anti-Semitism isn't there just because this guy is a 'nut'. Some might say anti-Semitism itself, along with other forms of bigotry is 'nutty' anyway.

This is just the kind of news that Right wing American and Israelis want. It helps them push their agenda and spread fear ,some comments left here prove that 100%.

The 3 children and 1 adult who were murdered because they were Jewish deserve to be rememberd in their own right as victims of hate crime and not simply by people writing them off as 'news that right wing Americans and Israelis want to push their agenda'. What Israel or the US does with this doesn't take away from it being a hate crime.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

That was the easiest prediction ever.

The broken clock that is right twice a day also finds its work quite easy. A handful of likely possibilities, and you picked the one that suits your bias. Congratulations.

The media will be busy insisting that his ideology has nothing to do with his crime, and will look for explanations of why the poor fellow snapped.

The media will not claim he snapped. Neither will any poster. His lawyer and family might though. You see, the media in general does not claim things. It simply reports what others say. And most will suppose he was nuts to begin with, just like Breivik, just like Robert Bales.

Also, no one will claim his ideology had nothing to do with it. No. The problem is that you will claim his ideology was uncorrupted Islam, the same shared by the world's 1.5 billion Muslims. Its not. His ideology is not shared by so many, same with Anders Breivik. Anyone accusing either of being a good and typical Muslim or good and typical Christian or remotely mainstream is simply off their rocker.

Gee... an islamist attacking Christians?

Woah! Back up! And have some respect! That is NOT what Tmarie said. She said she did not think it was raw anti-semitism. She said nothing about Islamists. Don't put words in people's mouths. Its NOT cool.

And on the score of anti-semitism, revenge is not anti-semitism, even if the victim of misguided revenge is Jewish.

Even if a Jew punches you, and you punch him back, that DOES NOT make you anti-semitic. Besides, he was talking about Israelis, not Jews. To hate Israel and Israelites is not automatic anti-semitism either.

There is one massive possible irony here. This Rabbi might have been extremely critical of the Israeli government's oppression of Palestinians, as so many Israelis and Jews are. In any case, I doubt the Rabbi was any more anti-semitic than I am.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"hate speech" hahaha. Orwell must be spinning in his grave.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He deliberately targeted a Jewish school. Even if his other victims were Christians, that doesn't make what he did at the SCHOOL any less an act of naked, raw anti-Semitism.

Its another arrow pointing to anti-semitism, yes, but it is not proof. In fact, his hatred of Israel may be the predominant reason for attacking the school. Yet you still harp anti-semitism as if its a foregone conclusion. Well its not. Again, favoritism.

He has cited his reason for the attack as revenge for the murders of Palestinian children. That is POLITICS, not bigotry.

And don't anybody make like this post justifies his behavior. It doesn't. If he wanted revenge for Palestinian children, his target should have been the very Israeli servicemen and politicians who got them killed, and nobody else.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Its another arrow pointing to anti-semitism, yes, but it is not proof. In fact, his hatred of Israel may be the predominant reason for attacking the school. Yet you still harp anti-semitism as if its a foregone conclusion. Well its not. Again, favoritism.

Yes, it is proof. If he was trying to avenge Palestinian children, then to go to a Jewish school in FRANCE, and murder 4 Franco Israelis, including 3 children is proof of anti-Semitism and a hate crime.

He has cited his reason for the attack as revenge for the murders of Palestinian children. That is POLITICS, not bigotry. But you have joined WilliB in denying that Muslims (even false ones like this) can possibly have political motivations it seems. And that is a bigotry all its own. It does not suit you.

This is of course bigotry. Politics and bigotry are often intertwined as I hope you know. He targeted innocent civilians to make a point against Israel. And he went to a Jewish school to do so. Nothing less than bigotry and a hate crime.

And don't anybody make like this post justifies his behavior. It doesn't. If he wanted revenge for Palestinian children, his target should have been the very Israeli servicemen and politicians who got them killed, and nobody else.

I agree. But instead he killed 4 innocent people, including 3 children on the basis of their being Jewish so he committed a hate crime instead.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Lieberman2012,

Several hundreds of Palestinian children have been mercilessly murdered by the IDF. Posters on this thread were implying that that was OK because of the rockets. I never said the murder of the 3 Israeli children was OK, I agreed that they were victims of hate crime.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The lastest news :

The suspect is 24 year old Mohamed Merah, an Algerian already knowned for 18 acts of violence and member of a radical French Muslim group named Forsane Alizza that wants to impose the sharia in France.

He is now entrenched in his home claming his convictions and that he is a djihadist and a moudjahidine.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You have to be drowning in kool-aid to think that the enraged Mohammedan in this story killed two French soldiers of N African extraction, execution style, cuz he is all about the poor wittle childrens in "occupied" Palestine.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

And on the score of anti-semitism, revenge is not anti-semitism, even if the victim of misguided revenge is Jewish.

Except this was a hate crime. He deliberately targeted innocent Jewish civilians in France, including 3 children as 'revenge' for the Palestinians. It was most certainly an act of anti-Semitism.

Even if a Jew punches you, and you punch him back, that DOES NOT make you anti-semitic. Besides, he was talking about Israelis, not Jews. To hate Israel and Israelites is not automatic anti-semitism either.

But these Jews who were killed didn't 'punch' and even if they did, it doesn't justify what this man did. He went to a Jewish school in France, many students of whom probably had neve been to Israel to get his revenge. Pure, unadulterated anti-Semitism. And actually to 'hate' Israelites is anti-Semitism, especially when you've already pointed out that many Israelis are themselves critical of Israel's policies.

There is one massive possible irony here. This Rabbi might have been extremely critical of the Israeli government's oppression of Palestinians, as so many Israelis and Jews are. In any case, I doubt the Rabbi was any more anti-semitic than I am.

Even if he was critical of Israel's policies, that doesn't make his murder any less of anti-Semitic hate crime.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

France is no longer safe for Jewish people. It is now being openly said. Does not bode well for the rest of the continent. Enjoy the twiliight.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

He apparently filmed the crimes with a camera attached to his chest and he's trying to put the videos on the internet.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

oginome,

Great post with great responses. Well done.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The guy has committed crimes all his victims have the same importance and for his crimes he will be punished. Only a simpleton would not see why certain people have a grudge against Israel which leads to them wanting to hurt Jews.

I feel terrible when anyone is murdered whatever their background, having a bias means having an agenda which equals clouded perceptions of the big picture.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The guy has committed crimes all his victims have the same importance and for his crimes he will be punished. Only a simpleton would not see why certain people have a grudge against Israel which leads to them wanting to hurt Jews.

But that's the thing. Having a grudge against Israel is now being used to justify or rationalise anti-Semitism, to give a reason as to why this gunman targeted a Jewish school in FRANCE. 'Grudge against Israel... hurting Jews' doesn't make sense, when many Jews are not Israelis and many Israelis are critical of Israel's actions.

I feel terrible when anyone is murdered whatever their background, having a bias means having an agenda which equals clouded perceptions of the big picture.

I see bias from those willing to rationalise or justify the anti-Semitic nature of these crimes because of what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

**Woah! Back up! And have some respect! That is NOT what Tmarie said. She said she did not think it was raw anti-semitism. She said nothing about Islamists. Don't put words in people's mouths. Its NOT cool.

And on the score of anti-semitism, revenge is not anti-semitism, even if the victim of misguided revenge is Jewish.

Besides, he was talking about Israelis, not Jews. To hate Israel and Israelites is not automatic anti-semitism either.**

Well said - and thank you. Been far too many words put in people's mouths over this topic.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

So, I guess the military targets were due to French involvement in Afghanistan and not due to the race of the soldiers. The attack on the Jewish school was raw anti-semitism. Interesting.

No... well, I won't play with the words and say that's not anti-semitism. I don't care the label. But he applied the same logic to both. He attacked the children of Israeli people because their army (and themselves during military service) are his enemies. Idem for his logic to attack French army members. Some will argue that he didn't know whether they were Israeli or non-Israeli French Jews. That's unlikely as the guy did his homeworks to check the first victim was a military, so surely he also got informations about others. This school is known to be of an ultra-orthodox trend that supports further colonization by Israel. He chose carefully.

There is one massive possible irony here. This Rabbi might have been extremely critical of the Israeli government's oppression of Palestinians, as so many Israelis and Jews are.

He wouldn't have worked as a missionary in a school whose mission is to get the maximum of youth volunteering to do their military service in Israel. Or he'd have been very incoherent.

France is no longer safe for Jewish people. It is now being openly said.

That has always been the speech from the Israeli beards trying to recruit more migrants and then justify a need for more colonization. Where is safe for Jewish people ?

What Israel or the US does with this doesn't take away from it being a hate crime.

We didn't need him to know that Israel and the US are routinely doing hate crimes. I am in favor of France getting out of that regional war, even serving diplomatic links with countries like Israel and the US as long as they don't get clear. What to do with Rambo ? So let's make a gesture, don't judge him in France (that would bee too sweet, browse Action Directe if you don't get what I mean). Do like the Brits and Israeli do : strip him from his French nationality for reason he joined an enemy army. Deport him to that DMZ zone near Pakistan-Afghanistan. Deliver the parcel with a post-it : "France stops the fight. Here is a prisoner from your camp.". The Mossad can get him if they want.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"severing diplomatic links"... nor "serving".

0 ( +0 / -0 )

when many Jews are not Israelis and many Israelis are critical of Israel's actions.

These people are not members of "Ozar Hatorah".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This school is known to be of an ultra-orthodox trend that supports further colonization by Israel. He chose carefully.

"Cos" unwittingly confirm the worst suspicions ordinary folks have about this tragedy and the hundreds (thousands?) like it we have seen worldwide in the last decade alone - that fanatical , militant Islamic supremacy is a transnational movement, that the international Left is often tacitly in support of the barbarism the movement engenders and that , as many Euroipean leaders now openly admit, the braindead, one-way tolerance and hyper PC lunacy known as "multiculturalism" is an utter failure.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Only a simpleton would not see why certain people have a grudge against Israel which leads to them wanting to hurt Jews.

Only a simpleton would equate or attempt to equate all Jews with Israel. Guess this murderer was a simpleton.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

That has always been the speech from the Israeli beards trying to recruit more migrants and then justify a need for more colonization.

Gee, thanks for the update. I was not aware that Israel was trying to colonize France.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ben Jack- did i equate all Jews to Israel? No i did not i said 'certain people' Please read my posts more carefullly in future before making such a remark. I eould sgree though that the killer is a simpleton for killing sll his victims, either that are seriously mentally disturbed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As France goes I suppose the rest of Europe does; even the insular,outlying, provincial parts

http://www.thecommentator.com/index.php/article/252/modern_ireland_the_perfect_liberal_state_progressive_european_and_jewhating

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

As France goes I suppose the rest of Europe does; even the insular,outlying, provincial parts

"Modern Ireland: The perfect liberal state. ‘Progressive’, European, and Jew-hating "

by Bernard Mccabe

More desperation trying to deflect from the real problems of anti-Semitism in America. Your post doesn't make sense because I never said Ireland doesn't have a problem with anti-Semitism. But to claim Ireland (and Europe as a whole) does and then conveniently omitt to mention America is ludicrous. Still a serious problem in 'the land of the free'.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/antisemitic-incidents-increase-in-america-for-the-first-time-since-2004/

Anti-Semitism is, unfortunately, still alive and well here in America. According to the Anti-Defamation League’s “Audit of Anti-Semitic Incidents,” the number of anti-Jewish incidents in the United States increased last year for the first time since 2004.

This most recent ADL audit shows that there were 1,239 reported incidents in 2010, which is up slightly from the 1,211 that were reported in 2009. The current report claims that there were 22 physical assaults, 900 instances of harassment and 317 cases of vandalism last year.

“The good news is that we have continued to enjoy a period of relative calm, where the overall numbers are mostly unchanged and the incidents isolated,” said Abraham Foxman, ADL’s national director. “But the bad news is that for all our efforts to educate, to raise awareness and to legislate, anti-Jewish incidents remain a disturbing part of the American Jewish experience.”

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Lieberman:

" the braindead, one-way tolerance and hyper PC lunacy known as "multiculturalism" is an utter failure. "

"Utter failure" for who? It is a disaster for modern, democratic nations, but it is full-blown success for the islamists who want to take over.

The news are not out yet, and they probably won´t get much coverage, but it is safe to assume that this terrorist murderer was indoctrinated and radicalized by Salafists right there in France, where they can openly teach their supremacist ideology under the name of "religious freedom".

Wait and see.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Somehow, I dont think your average Islamist woulldcould make the distinction between Israel as a political entity and Israel as a Jewish homeland. Do you really think his idea was to attack 'Israel', or to kill Jewish children? I think the latter.

As for anti-semitism, it has been on the rise in Europe for a decade. Jews often try to hide their Jewishess in public, suffer attacks on synagogues, even fleeing some communities.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes, it is proof. If he was trying to avenge Palestinian children, then to go to a Jewish school in FRANCE, and murder 4 Franco Israelis, including 3 children is proof of anti-Semitism and a hate crime.

Sigh. Only time will tell if and how much antisemitism was involved here. By his own statements so far, which are not absolute proof either way, he targeted the people because they were Israeli or at least believed to be. Or so his statements should lead one to believe.

If you want to assume his only or prime motivation was hatred of Jews, that is your unfounded opinion only. If you are going to go around and accuse those who do anything against Israelis because they are Israeli as being anti-semitic, then you might as well accuse those who do anything against Americans because they are Americans as being anti-George Washington for all the sense it makes. Many Jews are also critical of Israel. If they killed Israelis over Israeli politics, would it make them anti-semitic?

As for the hate crime point, the whole concept of hate crime is so whack, you can twist it any way you like. But if you want to be consistent, it can only be determined by reading minds at this point. And you do seem to believe you can read minds, since are pretty much ignoring his words.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Gee, thanks for the update. I was not aware that Israel was trying to colonize France.

No need, that was done 2500 years ago. It's the contrary, "France" colonizing Palestine. They encourage French (and other Sepharad) Jews to move to Israel and to settle in new territories in the conflict zone. Their activism meets much more criticism and opposition in Israel than in France as French people are not aware. Even French Jews are not that interested in Israel's problems, nor about Palestinians, Afghans, etc. But that sort of cases show that they are wrong.

"multiculturalism" is an utter failure.

What's the alternative ? How can you get countries without multiculturalism ? For someone like me, you take a kitchen knife and cut me at what point to separate the cultures ?

Liebermann said France (and therefore Europe) was becoming more anti-Semitic

And that 2 guys that never put the feet there repeat it ... that makes it become a truth ? That would be more than when ? France has a Jew as a president at this day. That shows how much discrimination they face. I think you use "anti-Semitic" wrongly, which is very fashionable these days. There are 2 cases. The first is what I call real antisemitism, it's when it is legal/official discrimination, when when the Jews have no rights to be nationals, to access to certain jobs, etc, due to religion/origin and when it's legal for people to refuse them jobs or services due to origin, to insult them and abuse them. And the second case criminal actions against the Jews by individuals and companies... that get punished by justice. I'm pretty confident that the first type is non-existent in France in 2012. We have come from very far (long long history since the Jews have been there for 2000 years longer than they have been in Israel). There is no regression. Antisemitism, it's not when a guy in scooter shoots Jews. It's when he shoots them and goes away with it because Jews count less for justice. That he shot them because they were Jews or for other reasons, I don't want to enter the debate. Because after we'd be discussing stupidly to know if it's worse to shoot someone because is Jew or gay, or Jew or black, or Jew or fat, or Jew or taller than you. That's endless. You don't shoot people. This guy will get the maximum.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Thus, my hate for some certain people extends past all races and creeds. I am as much an equal opportunity hater as I am tolerant.

The two do not match

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What does this have to do with the US? No one said anything about the US, no one said antisemitism isn't an issue anywhere. You clearly have a "cause"

Oh dear. I was pointing out that the US is not any safer for the Jews than Europe is, Liebermann came into the thread and said Europe was in its 'twilight', because of these attacks and I pointed out that America is no better. It's called responding.

Sigh. Only time will tell if and how much antisemitism was involved here. By his own statements so far, which are not absolute proof either way, he targeted the people because they were Israeli or at least believed to be. Or so his statements should lead one to believe.

That's anti-Semitism. He went after and deliberately targeted a Jewish school in France school to avenge Palestinians and make a point against Israel. It is a hate crime, those he murdered were innocent vicitms of his bigotry.

If you want to assume his only or prime motivation was hatred of Jews, that is your unfounded opinion only. If you are going to go around and accuse those who do anything against Israelis because they are Israeli as being anti-semitic, then you might as well accuse those who do anything against Americans because they are Americans as being anti-George Washington for all the sense it makes. Many Jews are also critical of Israel. If they killed Israelis over Israeli politics, would it make them anti-semitic?

It was a JEWISH school in France, regardless of its political affiliations, he targeted a school which catered to FRENCH citizens, and whose students were Jewish because he wanted to take revenge on Israel. Yes he was anti-Semitic, because it was HIM that got Jewish and Israel confused to mean the same thing. And actually, if he had gone to an American school in France and murdered Americo-French children because they were American, it would still be a hate crime. And if a Jew killed Jewish children at a French school to protest against Israel, it would still be anti-Semitism.

As for the hate crime point, the whole concept of hate crime is so whack, you can twist it any way you like. But if you want to be consistent, it can only be determined by reading minds at this point. And you do seem to believe you can read minds, since are pretty much ignoring his words.

No, it was definitely a hate crime, because children were murdered because they happened to be of the same religion as most of the citizens of the state he wanted to take revenge on. They were murdered because they were Jewish.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

And that 2 guys that never put the feet there repeat it ... that makes it become a truth ? That would be more than when ? France has a Jew as a president at this day. That shows how much discrimination they face. I think you use "anti-Semitic" wrongly, which is very fashionable these days. There are 2 cases. The first is what I call real antisemitism, it's when it is legal/official discrimination, when when the Jews have no rights to be nationals, to access to certain jobs, etc, due to religion/origin and when it's legal for people to refuse them jobs or services due to origin, to insult them and abuse them. And the second case criminal actions against the Jews by individuals and companies... that get punished by justice. I'm pretty confident that the first type is non-existent in France in 2012. We have come from very far (long long history since the Jews have been there for 2000 years longer than they have been in Israel). There is no regression. Antisemitism, it's not when a guy in scooter shoots Jews. It's when he shoots them and goes away with it because Jews count less for justice. That he shot them because they were Jews or for other reasons, I don't want to enter the debate. Because after we'd be discussing stupidly to know if it's worse to shoot someone because is Jew or gay, or Jew or black, or Jew or fat, or Jew or taller than you. That's endless. You don't shoot people. This guy will get the maximum.

I'm sorry Cos, but anti-Semitism is a very real thing and like you correctly stated, does just not involve Jews' rights being taken away by the government. Not all anti-Semitism is simply having a Nazi regime in power and building camps. The facts are that anti-Semitism carried out by individuals in both Europe and the US have been increasing over the past decade.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No need, that was done 2500 years ago.

Feh, I am not particularly interested in another "the Jews are trying and have been trying to take over the world" poster. It has no basis in reality.

Neither does this murderer's reasons for his murderous actions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Seavey;

" I said right people, and that could be Arab Israelis. I despise all child killers, "

Says who? You? Do we hear such a thing from islamist leaders in reality? Where?

Fact is, Yussuf Al Qaradafi, the spiritual leader of the muslim brotherhood, has endorsed full scale jihad on Israel, including attacks on Jewish civilians everywhere. Check it out.

The Toulouse killer was quite in line with that.

Your wishful thinking is one thing, reality is quite another.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Maybe, maybe not. I am not railing against the possiblity. I am railing against the mountain of presumptions you make.

No, it's a fact, because he targeted a JEWISH SCHOOL.

It is possible, like it or not, that he targeted the Rabbi, who others have said possessed Israeli citizenship.

And? He also killed 3 children. French Jews. He's the anti-Semite who conflated Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing, Israeli citizenship or not.

I don't know. I readily admit I don't know. Neither do you. But it disturbs me how you jump to so many conclusions. You seem to be tight in the grips of cognitive dissonance on this issue.

It's obvious. If he had gone into a secular school and killed children,1 of who was Jewish, then yes, his crime wouldn't necessarily have been anti-Semitic. But again, he targeted a JEWISH SCHOOL.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

jewish people and muslims should hold hands and hug each other.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Still don't know if this guy is telling the truth. So far all we've got to work on is his vague statments about revenge and the fact he was in possession of a handgun of the same calibur as the one used. I hope they resolve this standoff so they can run a proper investigation, no use in all this arguing if it isn't even the right person.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Still don't know if this guy is telling the truth. So far all we've got to work on is his vague statments

Exactly. All I have to add is that his statements amount to more than what anyone imagines in their own head.

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Oginome, Yigal Amir target and killed an Israel politician over the Oslo Accords. Don't look him up, just tell me if that makes him anti-semitic. Now, if he targeted people at a Jewish school instead but for the same reason, does that make him antisemitic?

That was different, he targeted a politican who he perceived as being responsible for the implemtation of the Oslo Accords he was against. This gunman went after completely innocent CHILDREN in FRANCE to 'avenge' Israel's crimes. French children who happened to be Jews. It's a completely different thing. Again, it was the gunman who conflated Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing. Even if this happened in an Israeli school, it wouldn't have justifed what this gunman did or make it any less an act of anti-Semitism. Children were killed because they were Jewish.

And FYI, you don't know if he targeted anyone at the school because they were Jewish, or this Rabbi and his kids specifically, or the school specifically believing or knowing most or all there were Franco-Israelis. Seriously, you are going to strain your brain jumping to all these conclusions. I believe you have the power to separate Israeli from Jew in your mind, just maybe you won't get there today.

He claims he wanted to avenge Palestinian children and deliberately targeted a Jewish school to carry out his atrocities. It was a calculated act. I certainly have the power to separate Israeli from Jew, too bad the killer couldn't.

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it was the gunman who conflated Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing.

So you admit it might have been a bout of stupidity rather than anti-semitism. Please, just hang on to that.

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So you admit it might have been a bout of stupidity rather than anti-semitism. Please, just hang on to that.

No, because his FAILURE to recognise the difference doesn't absolve him of anti-Semitism. ' All Jews = Israelis' manages to both be stupid AND anti-Semtic. In fact, I'd say stupidity and bigotry go hand in hand. He was being anti-Semitic.

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The description I heard of one of the killings was that he chased down a girl, grabbed her by the hair and shot her in the head at point blank range. My French is more than a little short of perfect and I may have misunderstood. But it sounds as if the shootings themselves were the work of an individual. I hope they've got him.

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every few years until Israel leaves the Pails alone, and the Americans leave the black gold alone..

Here we go, trying to justify murder again. There is no excuse for killing. Especially of childern.

Only time will tell if and how much antisemitism was involved here. By his own statements so far, which are not absolute proof either way...

His own statements of his intentions aren't proof of his motives? That's some tortured logic you're using. Maybe a good shrink would find out that he had an unhappy childhood and harbors deep resentment of daddy? I don't think so. The guy is a murderer. He says he did it as a jihadist. He's trying to post pics of his murder of children. There's not much room for discussion.

BTW, in France he'll get life in prison. In Saudi Arabia he'd be executed. Which culture would you rather live in?

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You should have no interest in yourself because you're the one that talked about colonizing France.

Feh x2, you are the one that suggested it was done 2,500 years ago.

he said he chose target on that basis, and not of what he thinks about French Jews.

Yeah, sure. That is why he killed in France. Well, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Course, he's an anti-Semitic nut, so I would not expect anything else.

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Seavey: crazy like Breivik who by my thinking cannot be Christian, but by yours, is

I'll 100% agree that what these people do is not the same Islam practiced around the world by a majority of people, and the radicals who pervert Islam really are a tiny percentage of the whole. I'll go even further and say that a vast majority of victims of Islamic terrorism are other Muslims, so if anyone wants to solve the problem, they're first on the list.

But saying, "Adding in 'Muslim' is like me adding in 'Christian'" doesn't hold water. Islamic radicals have planning, training, financing, recruiting, etc., to kill innocents all in the name of their version of Islam. They have organizational structure unlike anything else. The unibomber or an abortion bomber or a lone gunman didn't get money and training from a worldwide Christian terrorist group for support. Islam isn't the cause and it isn't to blame, but it can't be tossed aside since it is used to brainwash young Muslim men. It plays a part and everyone is trying to figure out how to deal with it. Some blame it entirely which is wrong, others want to take it off the table during the discussion which is also wrong.

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Interesting, because in my mind, those so stupid or crazy to make that fundamental mistake cannot be accused of having something that would be considered a coherent ideology. And I am betting he is crazy, crazy like Breivik who by my thinking cannot be Christian, but by yours, is. That is if you are being consistent.

What you don't seem to understand is that you don't need a 'coherent ideology' to be an anti-Semite or any other kind of bigot, it can come down to simple, pure unadulterated hatred towards another group. Breivick was a lunatic who called himself a 'Christian', while this gunman was a lunatic who deluded himself into thinking he was some sort of freedom fighter, at the root of both of these lunatics worldviews was a belief that another group (Muslims and Jews) were responsible for the problems they believed they were helping alleviate when they shot their guns.

Also, you just greatly increased the ranks of people who can be fairly called anti-semites. I am not sure if that is better or worse for Jews and Israelis, but I kind of think its worse to label dumb and crazy people in that way and push them even further into it. I also think its a bad idea to label people as anti-semites so casually.

Oh dear, so you're implying that by labelling people what they are (anti-Semites), we're pushing them into committing these acts of violence? What nonsense. If people are bigots, they need to be called out on it, and not tip toe around the fact because we feel we shouldn't inflame their virulent anti-Semitism.

But anyway, even if he only wanted to kill Israelis, and he assumed all Jews were Israelis, even if he has no trouble with the Jewish faith or people per se, but just Israelis, you insist he must be anti-semitic, right? If so, I am done trying to change your mind. There is a fair chance he really is anti-semitic anyway, in which case I am sure you wil feel quite validated. If so, enjoy.

Yes, because he was taking out his hatred on INNOCENT CHILDREN, who themselves had nothing to do Israel's policies, even if these children happened to be Israeli. He killed children who he believed to be of a certain nationality because he didn't agree with the policies of the nation they belonged to. It was a hate crime. It was anti-Semitism due to his inability to distinguish between Israeli and Jewish. And I have no intention of taking joy in being 'validated', people were murdered, nothing good will come out of this. This started with you trying to rationalise anti-Semitism because of media bias and saying we should 'understand' what this killer did because of Israel's policies. So I guess the psycho American soldier who murdered 16 Afgahnis should be 'understood' because of his being in a war zone and being exposed to violence and watching his friends getting killed? I certainly don't think so and I hope you feel the same.

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BTW, in France he'll get life in prison.

No. 20 years.

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Here's a link that delves into why this killer was on his own personal jihad...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2118398/France-shooting-2012-Will-soon-seeing-Al-Qaeda-inspired-killings-here.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Maybe they are a minority of Muslims, but they are giving all Muslims a bad name.

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And what part did these innocent children play in the death of Palestinians to make you seek avenge on them? D**K!!!!!!

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KobeGrandad,

did i equate all Jews to Israel? No i did not i said 'certain people' Please read my posts more carefullly in future before making such a remark.

Ummm...This is your only post in this discussion. I was responding to NinjaDave. Any reason why you are jumping in? Name comfusion? Anyway, I was plenty careful and you and/or wrote:

Only a simpleton would not see why certain people have a grudge against Israel which leads to them wanting to hurt Jews.

'Hurt Jews? Because certain people (your specificity does not change anything, by the way) have a grudge against Israel, you can see why they want to hurt Jews? Again, your thinking is not logical. I think you are the one that should think before posting, and signing in apparently.

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Sigh. Only time will tell if and how much antisemitism was involved here. By his own statements so far, which are not absolute proof either way, he targeted the people because they were Israeli or at least believed to be. Or so his statements should lead one to believe.

That's anti-Semitism. He went after and deliberately targeted a Jewish school in France school to avenge

Not necessarily, you should have another look at Cos's posts; he/she brings up a lot of relevant information.

Some will argue that he didn't know whether they were Israeli or non-Israeli French Jews. That's unlikely as the guy did his homeworks to check the first victim was a military, so surely he also got informations about others. This school is known to be of an ultra-orthodox trend that supports further colonization by Israel. He chose carefully.

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Not necessarily, you should have another look at Cos's posts; he/she brings up a lot of relevant information.

Yes necessarily, even he if specifically targed a Jewish school which was pro-Israel in its affliation does not make his actions any less anti-Semitic, since the manifesto of the SCHOOL would obviously not represent the views of EVERY single staff and student. Many students probably attended because it was the nearest Jewish school and some of the teachers were probably working there because they just happened to get a job there. He conflated Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing. He killed innocent Jewish children to 'avenge' Israel's actions - a completely raw act of anti-Semitism. It's so telling that so many on this thread are trying to whitewash this.

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Yes necessarily, even he if specifically targed a Jewish school which was pro-Israel in its affliation does not make his actions any less anti-Semitic, since the manifesto of the SCHOOL would obviously not represent the views of EVERY single staff and student.

If he targeted that school just because it was a Jewish school, then you would probably be right. But there is yet no indication of that. It seems he targeted that school because it was pro-Israel, and possibly specifically those kids because they were Israeli; especially if we consider his other attacks

Its a question of intent. If a meteor happens to fall on a Jew, does that make it antisemitic?

But having said all that, whether it was or wasn't an antisemitic attack is a rather minor detail. The fact is he murdered three innocent kids.

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*or denying it IS even.

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If he targeted that school just because it was a Jewish school, then you would probably be right. But there is yet no indication of that. It seems he targeted that school because it was pro-Israel, and possibly specifically those kids because they were Israeli; especially if we consider his other attacks

No he targeted a Jewish school which happened to be pro-Israeli like I already said, not every student or staff in the school would necessarily agree with Israel's policies or be 'pro-Israel', he saw Jewish and Israeli to be one and the same thing. Stupid, senseless, anti-Semitic bigotry.

Its a question of intent. If a meteor happens to fall on a Jew, does that make it antisemitic?

If the meteor deliberately sought out a Jew to kill because he hated Israel's policies, yes the meteror would be anti-Semitic. Nonsensical comparison.

But having said all that, whether it was or wasn't an antisemitic attack is a rather minor detail. The fact is he murdered three innocent kids.

No, I don't think the anti-Semitism is a minor detail at all. That WAS the intent. How is it a 'minor detail' when it's the reason for their murders. Would you also come to the conclusion if you saw Muslims being murdered because they were Muslim that Islamophobia was a 'minor detail'? Oh dear.

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gelendestrasse:

" Maybe they are a minority of Muslims, but they are giving all Muslims a bad name. "

Of course the jihadists are a minority among muslims, but the problem is that they have the scriptures on their side, and the moderates do not have a voice to stand up against them. And the few moderates who speak up against the radicals are under threats themselves.... remember the axe-wielding salafi who attacked the iman in the mosque in Belgium last week because he was too moderate?

Hiding behind the numbers does not solve the problem.

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"Of course the jihadists are a minority among muslims, but the problem is that they have the scriptures on their side"

Gee, like the Old Testament?

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Canadian-born, British-educated Mark Steyn, the guy who sits in for the hated Rush Limbaugh when he is on a Pfizer junket to Costa Rica or wherever, had this observation about the media elite and their all too predictable reaction to this latest incident of sudden Jihad syndrome:

"Stage One: The strange compulsion to assure us that the killer is a "right wing conservative extremist . . . ."

Stage Two: Okay, he may be called Mohammed but he's a "lone wolf."

Stage Three: Okay, even if there are enough lone wolves around to form their own Radio City Rockette line, it's still nothing to do with Islam.

Stage Four: The backlash that never happens. Because apparently the really bad thing about actual dead Jews is that it might lead to dead non-Jews: "French Muslims Fear Backlash After Shooting." Likewise, after Major Hasan's mountain of dead infidels, "Shooting Raises Fears For Muslims In US Army."Likewise, after the London Tube slaughter, "British Muslims Fear Repercussions After Tomorrow's Train Bombing."Oh, no, wait, that's a parody, though it's hard to tell."

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Would you also come to the conclusion if you saw Muslims being murdered because they were Muslim that Islamophobia was a 'minor detail'?

Well if someone killed three Saudi Muslim children to avenge the killing by the Saudi military of hundreds of non-Muslim children, I would be more concerned with the fact that he killed three innocent children rather that wondering whether he was anti-Muslim.

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I would be more concerned with the fact that he killed three innocent children rather that wondering whether he was anti-Muslim.

You did not answer the question. I think everyone is immediately more concerned with murder of four innocent people, three of which were children. However, what makes a hate crime a great concern is the great potential for an increase of such crimes. The brother of Merah is proud of what he did. The concern is how many others are just as proud of it. Fortunately a great number of Christians, Muslims, including Palestinians mind you, and Jews are banding together to show their solidarity against such horrible hate crimes. They know it was a hate crime and they have not been shy about saying it was an anti-Semitic hate crime.

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I think everyone is immediately more concerned with murder of four innocent people, three of which were children.

Lets not forget about the three paratroopers, two of which were Muslims, BTW.

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Lets not forget about the three paratroopers, two of which were Muslims, BTW.

Absolutely. Their sacrifice should not be forgotten.

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