French police kill militant as battle ends siege

Quick action, Good riddance to Focus on Elections (?)

But after initially trailing, Sarkozy has caught up and they are running neck-and-neck in the April 22 first round vote.

And he has been pimping this tragedy for all its worth. Its a great way to pick up the sympathy vote! All he needs to do is say "anti-semitism" a few more times. I note this article has dispensed with the term.

And he has been pimping this tragedy for all its worth. Its a great way to pick up the sympathy vote! All he needs to do is say "anti-semitism" a few more times. I note this article has dispensed with the term.

What Sarkozy does or does not do doesn't take away from these acts of murder being examples of raw anti-Semitism in action.

I do not do not condone violence but this guy needed to get taken out.

What Sarkozy does or does not do doesn't take away from these acts of murder being examples of raw anti-Semitism in action.

You keep on bringing this up, but I have yet to see any indication that he hated Jews. For the school shooting, it appears he was targeting Israelis.

You keep on bringing this up, but I have yet to see any indication that he hated Jews. For the school shooting, it appears he was targeting Israelis.

He targeted a Jewish school to carry out his hatred he felf towards Israel. He took Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing. Pure, unbridled anti-Semitism.

*carry out the hatred he felt

“You kill my brothers, now I’m killing you”........From his last words, it seems like all muslims see each other were 'brothers'! And this is definately not matching the real situation in the islamic world!

“You kill my brothers, now I’m killing you”........From his last words, it seems like all muslims see each other were 'brothers'! And this is definately not matching the real situation in the islamic world!

No, all Muslims do not see each other as brothers. There are different sects and variances within Islam. And of course, all Muslims in the world also happen to be people. What so many seem to forget is that the moderates far outnumber the insane radicals and will continue to do so. Where I live, most of the Muslims I know were among the best students at school and many have gone one to study medicine or science, they're conscientious and hard working for the most part and don't spend all day plotting to kill.

but I have yet to see any indication that he hated Jews

Yeah, I am sure he targeted and then attacked and killed in a Jewish school to show his undying love for the religion.

oginome: He took Jew and Israeli to mean the same thing.

Its no use Berryblue. oginome reads minds.

Berryblue: For the school shooting, it appears he was targeting Israelis.

I see where you used the word "appears". I guess you don't read minds, same as me. That is why we cannot compete Berryblue. We are mere mortals.

Its no use Berryblue. oginome reads minds.

No, I see someone who targeted a Jewish school in Franch and killed Jewish children to 'avenge Palestinian children' (his own words).

I see where you used the word "appears". I guess you don't read minds, same as me. That is why we cannot compete Berryblue. We are mere mortals.

He specifically targeted and attacked a Jewish school, and proceeded to murder Jews. This was not a matter of 'appearance', but reality. Running away from facts again, desperate to try and absolve the killer of the anti-Semitism he was so clearly motivated by. But of course anti-Semitism is rationalised by you because of 'favouritism' and these murdered children were actually victims of Israel's policies anyway, right? Abhorrent.

No, I see someone who targeted a Jewish school in Franch and killed Jewish children to 'avenge Palestinian children' (his own words).

Yeah, the "avenge Palestinian children" were his own words, but not the rest. And nobody here is trying to absolve these horrific murders, its just that some of us are getting pretty tired of the accusations of anti-semitism. But I'll take Seavey's wise advice and give up on this, I can't compete with someone who can read minds.

"You kill my brothers, now I'm killing you"........From his last words, it seems like all muslims see each other were 'brothers'! And this is definately not matching the real situation in the islamic world!

Lets keep in mind that two of his victims were Muslims.

Yeah, the "avenge Palestinian children" were his own words, but not the rest.

Yeah, they were just his own actions. You see, he did in fact target a Jewish school in France and kill Jewish children and he did indeed say that it was to avenge Palestinian children. Targeting and killing Jews because they are Jews is in fact anti-Semitism.

its just that some of us are getting pretty tired of the accusations of anti-semitism.

Why? Tired of reality? Me, too. I wish the reality was that such hatred did not exist. However, exist it does and denying will only invite more horrors.

Running away from facts again,

No. I accept that it was a Jewish school and that the victims were both Jewish and Israeli. But you tuned out that last bit about them being Israeli. Its like you have been programmed.

And Merah might have known they were Israeli or had much better reasons to think so than the fact that they were at a Jewish school. Its possible. The guy was choosing his targets and planning his crimes. The Rabbi was also the principal of the school. How hard could it have been to know his Israeli connections or what he looks like?

This video of the school was posted on youtube in 2010. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzdbqDYWavU&feature=player_embedded#! Its not like information is so hard to get.

"He vowed earlier in a televised address to crack down on extremism, saying he wanted legal action against people who regularly consult jihadist websites or travel abroad for indoctrination."

The sad part is that Sarkozy is playing into the murderer's hands by doing this -- martyring him, if you will. This will cause further backlash and racial profiling.

This killer and terrorist has zero excuses for what he did, and insults Palestinians and others by using them as attempted justification for his actions, but sadly some will take him at his word and revere him for what he's done 'for them'. Thus is the nature of radicalism.

Yeah, the "avenge Palestinian children" were his own words, but not the rest. And nobody here is trying to absolve these horrific murders, its just that some of us are getting pretty tired of the accusations of anti-semitism. But I'll take Seavey's wise advice and give up on this, I can't compete with someone who can read minds.

The 'accusations of anti-Semitism'? He went into a Jewish school and murdered Jewish children. I'm sorry you don't want to face facts. Those children were killed because they were Jewish. Not everyone in the school would have been necessarily been pro-Israeli. It was a JEWISH school, first and foremost, not the 'Israel school of France'. No mind-reading here, just looking at facts.

Targeting and killing Jews because they are Jews is in fact anti-Semitism.

Yes!

But if you targeted them because they were Israeli its not anti-semitism! It just about takes an anti-semite to be so dumb as to think it was the same!

Thus is the nature of radicalism.

And your solution seems to be to ignore people who regularly consult jihadist websites or travel abroad for indoctrination because it may appear to be 'martyring' this murderer?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to take preventative measures to prevent other attacks.

But if you targeted them because they were Israeli

He targeted a Jewish school, not an Israeli school.

It just about takes an anti-semite to be so dumb as to think it was the same!

I was never suggesting this murderer was a genius.

oginome,

Did you bother reading Seavey's post? Here is one important point you seem to have missed:

"The guy was choosing his targets and planning his crimes. The Rabbi was also the principal of the school. How hard could it have been to know his Israeli connections or what he looks like?"

So indeed, those victims were Jewish, and he did find them at the Jewish school, which the Rabbi was principal of, but he never expressed any hatred of Jews.

Attacking Israelis to avenge the murders committed by Israel is not antisemitism. It does not make it right, but it is not antisemitism.

Ben Jack, yes it does exist, it is reality..have u ever wondered why? There must be a reason, no? And if I may add, through out all time. From Shakespeare to the bible. Your people must be doing something wrong.

have u ever wondered why?

No, because mindless racist hatred does not deserve justification or understanding. This murderer's actions deserve neither justfication nor understanding. Those that seek to do so are the ones that must be doing something wrong.

He targeted a Jewish school, not an Israeli school.

He target Jewish Israelis, not the school!

As evidence, I offer up the fact that the school was not shot in the head!

No. I accept that it was a Jewish school and that the victims were both Jewish and Israeli. But you tuned out that last bit about them being Israeli. Its like you have been programmed.

No, the victims were Franco-Israelis, not just Israelis. They were French Jews. And again, not everyone in the school would necessarily have had Israeli citizenship or be pro-Israel. If he wanted to make a point against Israel, he could have gone to the Israel Embassy. But no, he went to a JEWISH (not 'Israeli') school.

And Merah might have known they were Israeli or had much better reasons to think so than the fact that they were at a Jewish school. Its possible. The guy was choosing his targets and planning his crimes. The Rabbi was also the principal of the school. How hard could it have been to know his Israeli connections or what he looks like?

No, the rabbi wasn't the principal. Looking Jewish doesn't mean you're automatically an Israeli. And it's YOU who's presuming and jumping to conclusions that he would have known that the rabbi held Israeli citizenship.

This video of the school was posted on youtube in 2010. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzdbqDYWavU&feature=player_embedded#! Its not like information is so hard to get.

How do you know he even watched that? Again, jumping to conclusions while telling others not to.

But if you targeted them because they were Israeli its not anti-semitism! It just about takes an anti-semite to be so dumb as to think it was the same!

Again, he targeted a Jewish school, not an Israeli one.

oginome,

Did you bother reading Seavey's post? Here is one important point you seem to have missed:

"The guy was choosing his targets and planning his crimes. The Rabbi was also the principal of the school. How hard could it have been to know his Israeli connections or what he looks like?"

So indeed, those victims were Jewish, and he did find them at the Jewish school, which the Rabbi was principal of, but he never expressed any hatred of Jews.

Attacking Israelis to avenge the murders committed by Israel is not antisemitism. It does not make it right, but it is not antisemitism.

I responded to his point. And of course he expressed hatred of Jews, since murdered four for being Jewish. You have no idea that he specifically targeted Israelis. What we DO know is that he targeted a JEWISH school and let fire on Jews. If he wanted to make a 'point' against Israel, he shouldn't have attacked a school which was Jewish first and foremost. An act of pure anti-Semitism.

He target Jewish Israelis, not the school!

No, he targeted Jews who were FRANCO-Israelis.

As evidence, I offer up the fact that the school was not shot in the head!

Oh dear.

This murderer's actions deserve neither justfication nor understanding.

Well, its quite obvious that you refuse to try and understand any aspect of what happened. I guess ignorance is now the ideal state of mind!

No, he targeted Jews who were FRANCO-Israelis.

Or was it Franco-ISRAELIS?

I don't know. I don't claim to know. Wise people don't guess when they don't know. "I don't know" is a valid answer when you "don't know" and have no solid evidence. Its not embarrasing to admit you don't know if you don't. But it is embarrasing to make half a term all caps to emphasize that half in way that does nothing more than expose a personal bias.

Well, its quite obvious that you refuse to try and understand any aspect of what happened. I guess ignorance is now the ideal state of mind!

'Understanding' for you means saying these children were victims of Israel and America's policies, ie, absolving Merah. Says it all.

Readers, please stop bickering. In fact, it is best if you do not address each other at all.

No, he targeted Jews who were FRANCO-Israelis.

Oh well, that changes everything...

'Understanding' for you means saying these children were victims of Israel and America's policies, ie, absolving Merah. Says it all.

Nobody is absolving anything. He attacked Israelis (FRANCO-Israelis, if you prefer) to avenge the murders of children committed by Israel. That is his motivation; it does not make it right, but it is not antisemitism.

BTW, why do you think he murdered the paratroopers, two of which were Muslim?

The Daily Mail (UK) is calling Merah a serial killer.This is the best description. Don't give people like Mohammed Merah or all of his suporters in France andin Europe andin North Africa and n iPakistan and in Afganistan and in Palestine any chance to claim martyrdom. He was nothing but a violent, hate-filled loser. Mr Sarkozy was spot on in using the term "racaille" for such a person.

The Daily Mail (UK) is calling Merah a serial killer.This is the best description.

Yep, I think that is an appropriate description.

It turns out that Merah had been under surveillance by intelligence agencies for a long time. It was also reported that he had been on a trip to Israel in the past. Maybe he was just trying to visit Palestine or preparing to commit a terror attack against Israelis; but there is also the possibility that Merah was actually trained by Israeli forces. Who knows!

He target Jewish Israelis, not the school!

He asked the kids whether they were Israeli or not before killing them? No, he killed them because they were in a Jewish school.

but there is also the possibility that Merah was actually trained by Israeli forces. Who knows!

True. He could have also been hired by space aliens to commit the crime. Who knows!

He killed kids that is all i read, it doesn't matter if they were French, Israelli, jews or whatever. It was an act of a coward.

He asked the kids whether they were Israeli or not before killing them?

Maybe he checked out the Rabbi, principal of the school, knew he was Israeli, and thus, so were his kids? Maybe.

See I don't know for sure. I don't read minds. I did see a youtube video about the school. And I am going to venture a guess that there are a lot more sources of information about the school and its unfortunate deceased principal and family and its all been available for a while. Trouble is, I speak French only slightly better than I read minds!

Maybe he checked out the Rabbi, principal of the school, knew he was Israeli, and thus, so were his kids?

The rabbi and the principal are two different people. The principal was not killed. A teacher was. The children killed just happened to be together and two were the rabbi's and one was the principal's. You are just guessing that he knew what all the kids looked like, too? That is a lot of guessing for someone who claims not to be able to read minds.

Given the randomness of the targets, it is more than obvious that it was that they were members of a Jewish school that made them this murderer's targets. Before rushing to disagree, you might want to actually read the articles about which we are discussing and get your facts straight first.

Given the randomness of the targets,

He wanted to kill Israelis. He killed at least three Israelis, two dual citizens. I don't know about the principal's daughter. (you are right about the principal, my bad)

He wanted to kill children. He killed three children.

He wanted to kill Israeli children. He killed at least two.

Why does that not sound random to me?

You have not proven he knew who he was killing and killed them because he thought they were Israeli. He did not go to a place where he would find Israelis, he went to a place where he would find Jews.

You have not proven he knew who he was killing and killed them because he thought they were Israeli.

What kind of proof would you expect? A diary detailing all his planning and all the thinking that went behind it?

He did not go to a place where he would find Israelis, he went to a place where he would find Jews.

It appears that to avenge the murder of Palestinian children by the Israelis, he targeted Israeli children. If you were looking for Israeli children, where would you go? Considering the results, it seems he picked a good location, or that he in fact knew exactly who he was targeting.

No one has been able to prove that he targeted random Jews.

“’The Jews have killed our brothers and sisters in Palestine,” the killer reportedly said

This choice quote has been widely reported. It was stated over the phone while he was holed up in the apartment.

But its just one cherry-picked quote from a whole conversation I don't have access to.

But couple it with his targeting of Muslim paratroopers who "killed his "brothers and sisters" in Afghanistan. What do you get? Well you sure don't get anti-Muslim do you? So why grab at anti-semitism so fast?

Obviously, this guy would have killed an Arab-Israeli just as fast for "killing his brothers and sisters in Palestine". Conclusion: His primary beef was, apparently, given the facts, Israelis.

If he said Jew instead of Israeli its a common mistake the more stupid and crazy an individual gets. Its not anti-semitism to be stupid, but you sure have to be stupid to be anti-semitic.

What kind of proof would you expect? A diary detailing all his planning and all the thinking that went behind it?

That would be fine proof. Him saying that is why he went there would be fine, too. The man himself blames 'Jews' for killing his 'brothers and sisters'. As Seavey points out he just wanted to kill children and he equated Jew and Israeli as the same thing and more importantly he equated Israeli with Israeli policy. All are racists acts and in this case the racism is anti-Semitism.

If he said Jew instead of Israeli its a common mistake

It is a common anti-Semitic way of thinking. Many Middle Easterners talk about the 'Jews' when they mean Israelis. They lump Jew and Israeli all together and lump all Israelis together. It is racism pure and simple. The murderer's motives were based on anti-Semitic racism and hatred. You said it yourself, the man goes to a Jewish school instead of some sort of Israeli establishment because in his crazy anti-Semitic mind, they are all the same. He sprayed bullets widely trying to kill anyone there because all Jews were responsible in his crazy anti-Semitic mind.

Those were his exact words, no distortion or twisting here, but an admission of anti-Semitic motives. It doesn't matter if he was holed up in his apartment or not. He said 'Jews', clear as day, don't try and run away from it.

No, those are the words that have been reported, probably by a journalist. I hope you do not believe that things that are reported are never distorted or twisted.

No, those are the words that have been reported, probably by a journalist. I hope you do not believe that things that are reported are never distorted or twisted.

No, those were the words which he spoke himself to French News 24, the Guardian simply reported it. Keep running away from the truth.

Oginome.

It don't change you and that is the point.

My Life's philosophy is to move on(by-gones are by-gones) and be better/improve tomorrow on the person I am today. This is an idea-logy shared by many religions/faiths/etc.

We shape the future for our kids to live and prosper in. Putting blame 1st helps no-one.

Oginome.

It don't change you and that is the point.

My Life's philosophy is to move on(by-gones are by-gones) and be better/improve tomorrow on the person I am today. This is an idea-logy shared by many religions/faiths/etc.

We shape the future for our kids to live and prosper in. Putting blame 1st helps no-one.

I'm not compromising any hopeful future by correctly stating Merah was lunatic bigot motivated by anti-Semitism. It's important to face up to the reality of what happened. Blaming Israel for this, like some have done is idiotic. I want a bright future for everyone too. But how is that possible when people won't even face up to the reality of what happened? I've had people try and rationalise anti-Semitism by using the 'favouritism' excuse as to why they felt so rattled when the media reported the bodies of the Jewish victims were to be buried in Israe. That's more destructive that anything I'm saying.

Never mind the Crusades(initiated by christians) and also were destined to kill some christian factions in Europe as well as Muslims, etc

Or forget the Protestant/Catholic disputes when Europe had 2+ popes. Kinda reminds me of Buddhists in China, etc which recognise different leaders.

What I am saying his motives aren't as black/white as many want to belief. Why did he kill the French soldier he bought the scooter from?

I hope you do not believe that things that are reported are never distorted or twisted.

Gee, I prefer to believe things that are reported rather than posters going on about how we should not believe the media, that is unless that media happens to agree with said poster's point of view.

The murderer committed a hate crime plain and simple. He went after an innocent group of people because of their religion and their place of study because he claimed to have a beef with Israeli policy. He was a racist by his words and his actions. There is no need to claim media errors. We have the actual murderous hate crimes of the murderer as proof.

Why did he kill the French soldier

Again, it was a hate crime. He was blaming the soldier for French policies in Algeria.

Nice misquote.

And shows your own bias.

I don't condone his actions but to understand them we need to look inwards to ourselves and see and accept who we are at the lowest denominator.

Accept that and we can rise above ourselves if not .....

No, those were the words which he spoke himself to French News 24, the Guardian simply reported it. Keep running away from the truth.

Yes, I saw the interview on France 24 where a journalist was talking about her phone conversation with the guy. In the bit I saw, there was nothing that would lead a reasonable person to conclude he was driven by antisemitism. But more importantly, there was no recording of the guy's words; i.e., we do not know exactly what he said. So no use splitting hairs about which words he used.

was nothing that would lead a reasonable person to conclude he was driven by antisemitism

He specifically targetted a Jewish school to kill Jewish people. Specifically targetting Jews is in fact the very definition of anti-Semitism.

He was blaming the soldier for French policies in Algeria.

In Afghanistan, not Algeria.

The caller CLAIMED to be Merah, and he sounded very calm. So we are not sure if it was him, and we don't know exactly what he said (no recording).

In Afghanistan, not Algeria.

Yes, you are correct. I mistyped. Merah was of Algerian decent.

The caller CLAIMED to be Merah, and he sounded very calm. So we are not sure if it was him, and we don't know exactly what he said (no recording).

This line of reasoning (?) is an extremely slippery slope. If you choose not to believe anything and question everything, you are in danger of crossing the line from questioning to paranoia. ie: Don't believe the media, believe me kind of thing is so passe. There is no reason to think that the reports or the reporter was lying. The Muslim community is rallied together against this mad murderer's attempts to start a Jihadist war in France. I do not see anyone questioning the timeline of events or what has been reported except for someone who seems to be merely suggestion paranoia is the way to explain things. Sorry, it is not very convincing.

There is no reason to think that the reports or the reporter was lying. The Muslim community is rallied together against this mad murderer's attempts to start a Jihadist war in France.

Hey, I am not defending Merah; I agree he was a mad murderer. All I am saying is that people should not be splitting hairs about which exact words the reporter said were spoken by the calm sounding caller who claimed to be Merah.

Also, the reporter stressed that Merah claimed that these attacks were just the beginning, thus giving Sarkozy the desired excuse to introduce new laws against visiting certain websites. How convenient!

All I am saying is that people should not be splitting hairs about which exact words the reporter said were spoken by the calm sounding caller who claimed to be Merah.

You are the one who is splitting hairs, second guessing and creating baseless conspiracy theories. Merah brother says he is proud of what Merah did. You also going to create a conspiracy about this too? Personally, I think the reporter is way more believable than a poster grasping at straws in the shapes of conspiracy theories.

The murderer went to a Jewish school and shot randomly and wildly. He had no idea who he was killing. All that mattered was that they were members of a Jewish school. Then a reporter we have no reason to disbelieve reports that he said that he wanted to kill Jews. I see nothing in your posts that would lead a reasonable person to disbelieve the reports.

The murderer went to a Jewish school and shot randomly and wildly.

A bit,yes. But who knows why? To kill, or create panic? To maim, or to cow his victims?

Far more significant is the fact that all the dead were shot in the head at point blank range, which is to say they were not shot by wild random bullets.

He had no idea who he was killing. All that mattered was that they were members of a Jewish school.

Mindreading. At the very least,he may have known that this school has stronger ties to Israel than other Jewish schools, if it does. I don't know. I just know it seems extremely unlikely, given his other two shooting sprees, that he was working at complete random.

You make far too much of the fact that he uttered the word "Jew" on the phone, at the expense of the fact that he wanted to avenge Palestinian children, uttered in the same sentence on the same telephone. Plus you blithely ignore the fact that his first two attacks were targeted to a degree and the fact that at least 3/4 of his victims at the school held dual Israeli citizenship, Israel being the country that killed those Palestinian kids. All because he said the word "Jew".

A bit,yes

A bit what? The murderer is in fact go to a Jewish school and from what witnesses have described did in fact shoot randomly and wildly. There is nothing a bit about it.

Far more significant is the fact that all the dead were shot in the head at point blank range

How about the injured? They don't count?

if it does. I don't know.

I see. Mindreading.The school has much stronger ties to the US and the US organization that helped establish it. Fact.

You make far too much of the fact that he uttered the word "Jew" on the phone,

I am not making too much of it at all. I merely accept it as the reason for his murderous killing spree. I also accept the fact that he chose a Jewish school and chose to kill Jews.

You have not shown he knew who his victims were and there is as yet no evidence to suggest it. Suggesting he knew them without providing evidence to support it is in fact mindreading.

All because he said the word "Jew".

No. all because he went to a Jewish school and killed Jews and said he wanted to kill Jews. You see, these are facts and not guesses or suppositions, ie: mindreading. Maybe you should consider practicing what you preach.

How about the injured? They don't count?

HE counts. Just not as much as four dead people.

I am not making too much of it at all. I merely accept it as the reason for his murderous killing spree.

One word was THE reason? And you are not making too much of it? Have it your way. Lets agree to disagree.

One word was THE reason?

No misplaced anger resulting in anti-Semitism that further resulted in four deaths. You see, I am basing my opinion on actual known facts. You are basing yours on conjecture that is not based on any known facts. Yes, he voiced anger about the Palestinian situation. Yes, he voiced a desire to kill Jews. Knowing this is it logical to assume he wanted to kill Jews at a Jewish school because he felt they were to blame? Yes, it is, based on all the knowlege we have minus conjecture. If facts were to come along to say he had no desire to kill Jews and was specifically looking to kill Israelis, we would still have a hate crime as blaming innocent people for crimes they did not personally commit merely because they belong to an ethnic group is still a racist hate-crime.

You see, I am basing my opinion on actual known facts.

OK, so lets look at the facts.

The only fact we have regarding his motive for the school shooting is a reporter quoting a caller claiming to be Mehar as saying "the Jews killed my brothers and sisters in Palestine".

Is she quoting the caller correctly? Who knows.

Was the caller really Mehar? Who knows.

I don't see this as an anti-semitic attack; but I also don't think that murdering kids because they are Israeli is any less terrible than murdering them because they are Jewish.