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French police question gunman's 'proud' brother

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Oh don't worry, it was only a lone wolf. Nevermind the peaceful religious ideology that inspires these "random and inconsistant" assaults on humanity because its such a small number that believes this way and we should just ignore it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

What kind of "religion" could produce minds so warped as to declare they are proud of siblings,sons and daughters who stalk and shoot children point blank? Absolutely insane. The only comfort to be drawn from this is the likelihood that a few thousand Mohammedans in France have watched this horror story and quietly decided they will leave their cult..

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The answer to that is extremism. Also,it is unfortunate that religion does most certainly promote war as well as peace. Merah sought out Jews and soldiers, both groups are involved in conflicts and violence. In Merah's mind he most likely saw himself as a saviour. Recent events have shown that middle eastern violence is on an upward spiral. I wonder if it not a case of violence breeding violence?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lieberman, you are it again. While radical Islam is a serious problem and must be dealt with, with a relative high "Mohammedans" population (we call them Muslims by the way), you would have more of such heinous crimes. It doesn't happen. Can you explain why? Is it possible the majority can coexist with other faiths or with people without religious affiliations at all?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well, it seems that insanity and stupidity runs in the family. Since the mother is not proud, I am going to guess it comes from the father.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Disgusting.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Merah sought out Jews and soldiers, both groups are involved in conflicts and violence. In Merah's mind he most likely saw himself as a saviour.

No, Jews are not involved in conflict and violence, the state of Israel is. You're completely right, this was Merah's line of thinking. The murderous bigot was unable to distinguish between Jews and Israelis and killed Jewish children to avenge Israel's crimes. He even admitted it himself, 'Jews killed my brothers and sisters in Palestine'.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Religion did not produce these minds.

Hence the 2 little marks on each side of the word religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

jump to Irony

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@oginome

I understand your point of view and am able to see that an Israeli may in fact not be a Jew

However,

I am afraid that Jewish people living in Israel and elsewhere do perpetrate a good deal of violence and this violence is and has been broadcast to the world.A brief glimpse at the web will allow anyone to see Jewish settlers and others firing on unarmed Palestinians.There are many more atrocities not reported but very similar to the atrocities carried out by Merah.

No doubt Merah was responding to these events......

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Merah was responsible for his own actions, Israel can't be blamed...

Indeed he was, but I hope you are not one of the ones who a few days ago was blaming Hamas or the rockets for the hundreds of Palestinian children killed by the IDF.

No, Jews are not involved in conflict and violence, the state of Israel is.

This is indeed what the poster called oginome wrote, relatively calmly behind his keyboard. However, 'Jews killed my brothers and sisters in Palestine' was reported to have been said by a caller claiming to be Mehar. Funny that one can really focus on one particular word from the latter and not expect us to conclude that his/her own words reflect his/her own bias.

BTW, what are the chances that the IDF who killed the Palestinian children were not Jewish?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Funny that one can really focus on one particular word from the latter and not expect us to conclude that his/her own words reflect his/her own bias.

Hear, hear!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Indeed he was, but I hope you are not one of the ones who a few days ago was blaming Hamas or the rockets for the hundreds of Palestinian children killed by the IDF.

Nope, never blamed anyone but the perpetrators for the murders they committ. I'm no Israeli apologist.

This is indeed what the poster called oginome wrote, relatively calmly behind his keyboard. However, 'Jews killed my brothers and sisters in Palestine' was reported to have been said by a caller claiming to be Mehar. Funny that one can really focus on one particular word from the latter and not expect us to conclude that his/her own words reflect his/her own bias.

Your post makes no sense. I meant there's no such thing as 'the Jews', this one group of like-minded people who together commit these crimes. They don't exist. I don't see what the contradiction is. Mehar blamed the 'Jews' for killing Palestinians, when Israelis killed Palestinians, and Israelis not necessarily Jewish. I think the bias here is only coming from one person.

BTW, what are the chances that the IDF who killed the Palestinian children were not Jewish?

They could have been Jewish, Christian, aetheist, agnostic, we really don't know.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@oginome

I understand your point of view and am able to see that an Israeli may in fact not be a Jew

However,

I am afraid that Jewish people living in Israel and elsewhere do perpetrate a good deal of violence and this violence is and has been broadcast to the world.A brief glimpse at the web will allow anyone to see Jewish settlers and others firing on unarmed Palestinians.There are many more atrocities not reported but very similar to the atrocities carried out by Merah.

No doubt Merah was responding to these events......

Merah was responsible for his own actions, Israel can't be blamed, to do so absolves or at very least diminishes Merah's total responsibility. The people who shoot at Palestinians in israel are ISRAELIS, that's like blaming Christians for what America does in Afghanistan and Iraq since America is a Christian majority country. ISRAEL perpetuates violence, not Jews. So many people cannot to see the difference, as I'm finding out on this board.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Lieberman: "What kind of "religion" could produce minds so warped as to declare they are proud of siblings,sons and daughters who stalk and shoot children point blank?"

Like a certain Mr. Zimmerman? You seem to have no trouble condemning one monster without any regard for due process but insist it take place for a different murderer. It wasn't "religion" that killed these people, it was a madman who twisted religion for his own purposes. Happens in all religions, with nutbags world-wide. Methinks your only asking because in this case it's Islam.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

HonestDictator: "Oh don't worry, it was only a lone wolf. Nevermind the peaceful religious ideology that inspires these "random and inconsistant" assaults on humanity because its such a small number that believes this way and we should just ignore it."

Nah, this kind of thinking is certainly never the catalyst that pushes these insane people to action. Not at all! I mean, it's not like the murderer said that France's banning of Muslim veils or targeting of their religion had anything to do with it... oh wait, he DID say that was one reason for his actions!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

oh wait, he DID say that was one reason for his actions!

Veils, yes. Targeting of relligion, no. He did not say he was targeting people because they were Jews. He said it was about children killed in Palestine. Or are you telling me that killing kids in Palestine is part of the Jewish faith? I don't think it is.

Clearly he is guilty of false equivalence and belief in collective punishment. That does not mean he had problems with the Jewish religion. The religion he claimed to adhere to is derived from the Jewish religion after all.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Targeting of relligion, no

It was specifically reported that he specifically wanted to kill Jews. Targeting of religion, yes.

That does not mean he had problems with the Jewish religion.

Stating specifically that he wanted to kills members fo the Jewish religion certainly points to problems with it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Nah, this kind of thinking is certainly never the catalyst that pushes these insane people to action.

Thank you. This is a perfect example of justification and rationalizing you were so desperately looking for. How ironic to find it in your own post.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It was specifically reported that he specifically wanted to kill Jews.

Not exactly, but okay, I will run with that.

Did he want to kill Jews because they worshipped the Torah, or did he want to kill Jews because he held them responsible for dead kids in Palestine? Wrong either way mind you, but there is no need to accuse him of sins we don't know he committed. There is plenty to condemn him for already, never fear.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Not exactly

Sorry, he was specific. He said he wanted to kill Jews. Collective punishment of innocent people because they are Jewish is anti-Semitism. We know these things because they are actual facts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sorry, he was specific.

Quote please. I hope it clearly says:" because they are Jewish" because I am sick of this merry go round.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Lieberman: "Zimmerman is "proud" of what he did? Links please. I searched but can find no such nonsense."

Never said he was proud of what he did. I said you are extremely quick to condemn one man while you do everything in the book to look for excuses as to why the other did what he did. I can easily give you a link, but just click on your name and go to the Zimmerman's threads to see for yourself.

Seavey: "So if an American punches your brother, and you hold all Americans responsible, and punch a different American in response, is that anti-Americanism? Does it mean you hate America?"

I'm really not sure that's the best example because, if you do punch someone based solely on where he or she is from then, yeah, that's hate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Seavey and Ben Jack, please stop bickering and going around in circles. Focus your comments on the story and not at each other. Repetitive posts will be removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People, the geezer is dead and good riddance.

If anything, his barbary has brought together French muslims and jews. And so it should have. I doubt anyone vomitting up anti-semetic vitriol towards arabs or jews will be welcome at the table from here on out. There is always good that comes from a crisis.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Don't be so sure.

The true hardcore guys on either side will use it to justify their viewpoint. Just being realistic.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The murderer's words and actions speak quite clearly. The stories here on JT and other media quite clearly showed he wanted to murder Jews and he went to a Jewish school to do so. His brother is proud of what he did, which shows he is close to as crazy as Merah.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

BTW, what are the chances that the IDF who killed the Palestinian children were not Jewish?

Quite good. So? What is your argument? That it means collective punishments against any Jews is somehow understandable? If that is not your argument, what the heck is it? Because it certainly seems with this sentence that you are justifiying the reaction, though not necessarily the results. Again, basing actions on the ethnicity of the victims makes a crime a hate crime. In this case, it makes it an anti-Semitic one. However, I do agree with your supposition that this is in fact an anti-Semitic hate crime. Thank you for proving my point.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I doubt anyone vomitting up anti-semetic vitriol towards arabs or jews will be welcome at the table from here on out.

Sadly, based on some of the posts in this very discussion, we have people who seem to think collective punishment based on ethnicity or religion is understandable. So, I don't hold out hope for a change in the extremists. However, I do agree it is good to see Jews and Muslims aligned against the hatred this murderous monster represents.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Ok, so everyone agrees he was a wackjob with extremist religious predilections. Such persons exist within every religion, though the majority of practioners are peaceful unless attacked. It serves well to examine the attackers ' own stated reasons, even if/though the reasons seem ludicrous. Check the self-proclaimed reasonings of the 9/11 attackers. On the other side of the proverbial coin, whenever one relocates into a different culture, it is that persons responsibilty to adapt to the new culture and NOT to impose one's own culture onto the host nation's people. This is a major area of conflict, particularly among those of rigid religious beliefs. In that case, the best remedy is for the "foreigner" to repatriate to a place more in agreement with their religious beliefs. Don't like it? Then leave!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm basing my assertions sat in the south of France having a BBQ outside this afternoon. We're all revolted by the events, arabs, jews, catholics ans atheists.

I hope they can lock the brother up for ever too, or deport him.

You don't have to have a child to be reviled by a man executing a 7 year old girl in front of her father, amongst his other attrocities...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It was specifically reported that he specifically wanted to kill Jews. Targeting of religion, yes.

No, we have a reporter quoting a caller claiming to be Mehar as saying "the Jews killed my brothers and sisters in Palestine".

Is she quoting the caller correctly? Who knows.

Was the caller really Mehar? Who knows.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Is she quoting the caller correctly?

Yes, we have absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

Was the caller really Mehar?

No, it was really Merah. We have absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well, I have reasons to doubt her statements. Other things she mentioned seemed to provide too nicely excuses for Sarkozy to introduce his harsh laws against internet freedom.

It is very possible that either she is in on it (she is lying) or the caller is in on it (it was not Mehar). A lying reporter would certainly not be a first.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Sadly, based on some of the posts in this very discussion, we have people who seem to think collective punishment based on ethnicity or religion is understandable.

Judging by the posts, and not attempting to read minds, no, we most certainly DO NOT. Not a single person has backed up Merah on a single point on this board concerning his motives, with the exception of his crazy brother mentioned in the article.

The debate is about what Merah was thinking. And of all the possibilites, not one single person justified, agreed with, or otherwise supported his thinking, with the exception that Israeli killing of Palestinians is wrong and heinous...period. How many times does this need to spelled out? Just give us a number.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

BerryBlue,

Could you please provide even one specific piece of proof leading you to believe the reporter is lying.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

with the exception that Israeli killing of Palestinians

One, that is a huge exception. What Israel has done or has not done is in no way, shape or form justification for the murder of innocent people.

Two, posters have also gone on and on about the history of Jews in Europe and the Middle East and some have even plainly said there is something wrong with Jews if they are hated so much. So, yeah, there is a problem with some posters. Where have you been when these posts were posted?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What Israel has done or has not done is in no way, shape or form justification for the murder of innocent people.

I don't think anyone has used it as justification. You should read more carefully:

Mehar thought that the killing of Palestinian children is wrong and heinous. I, for one, agree with that; but I certainly do not justify Mehar's actions.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I don't think anyone has used it as justification.

Yes, some certainly have used it that way. The fact is it should not be brought up at all. It has nothing to do with these murders. You brought up Hamas, etc? Why? They have nothing to do with this?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The fact is it should not be brought up at all. It has nothing to do with these murders.

What? That is THE reason that Mehar is alleged to have giving for the school killings.

Can you provide an example of any poster justifying Mehar's actions? I haven't seen any, and it seems that neither has Seavey.

The only justifications from posters I have read were of posts justifying the murder of hundreds of Palestinian kids, blaming Hamas or the rockets. Where have you been when these posts were posted?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

That is THE reason that Mehar is alleged to have giving for the school killings.

Hamas and their rockets had nothing to do with Merah. You brought them up.

blaming Hamas or the rockets. Where have you been when these posts were posted?

I have been there agreeing. Hamas is responsible for the deaths with their rockets. Israel is not responsible for these deaths. Thus your mentioning it neither has anything to do with it and is an attempt to justify the reasons for these murders.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

That is THE reason that Mehar is alleged to have giving for the school killings.

Funny, by the way, that you believe that this part might be true, but you think the part about Merah wanting to kill Jews is a big made up story. That is what is known as cherry picking and spliting hairs.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I also want to clarify what I and many others have referred to as justification mentioned. Ever since these murders were reported and even in this article. People have seen fit to write about alledged Israeli actions or Jewish actions. Writing, "Yes these killings were horrible, but Jews did this or Israelis did this" is in fact justification. You did it on your post above when you sought to create sympathy for Palestinian children in an article about people murdered in France.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ben Jack,

I am not the one to bring up the Palestinian children. A JT article of March 21 was in fact titled "Suspect in France shootings claims he wanted to avenge Palestinian children".

As I tried to explain to you a number of times (and this will be the last) at least on poster was justifying those murders committed by the IDF (what you refer to above as "alleged Israeli actions") by blaming Hamas or the rockets. My point all along was that blaming Hamas or the rockets for the murder of the hundreds of Palestinian children is just as demented as blaming Israel for the murder of Israeli children by Merah. We all acknowledged that Merah was a crackpot for thinking that. Interestingly, not everyone on this forum is willing to accept that blaming Hamas or the rockets for the murder of hundreds of Palestinian children is sick and disgusting.

That is THE reason that Mehar is alleged to have giving for the school killings.

Funny, by the way, that you believe that this part might be true, but you think the part about Merah wanting to kill Jews is a big made up story. That is what is known as cherry picking and spliting hairs.

Any part of his alleged words might be true, and might not be. I don't know, and neither do you.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Articles have also brought up the reports that he wanted to kill Jews to avenge Palestinian children. You are clinging to one part of the quote and acting as though it is true and equally claiming that a reporter is probably lying about the wanting to kill Jews part.

Of course Hamas is to blame for shooting rockets and attacking Israel. If they did not want to destroy Israel and did not have that in their charter, there would be peace in that region.

You are obviously trying to downplay the anti-Semitic part of the quote. Knowing your history, it is sadly also obvious why.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

My point all along was that blaming Hamas or the rockets for the murder of the hundreds of Palestinian children is just as demented as blaming Israel for the murder of Israeli children by Merah.

My point is that the two things are not at all the same. Merah killed completely innocent people not at all connected to any anger he may have had. Hamas shooting rockets and starting wars that end in civilian casualties is the fault of Hamas directly. Again, comparing the two is rationalization and justification and that is quite inappropriate.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ben Jack

OK, so I see that you are one of the ones justifying Israel's killing of hundreds of Palestinian children.

Again, comparing the two is rationalization and justification and that is quite inappropriate.

Yes, I am comparing the two, and I realize that both are unjustifiable. Palestinian children are just as precious and innocent as Israeli ones; sadly not everyone feels that way.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

OK, so I see that you are one of the ones justifying Israel's killing of hundreds of Palestinian children.

No, never. I merely justify reaction to the aggression of Hamas rockets and Hamas desire to destroy Israel. There is absolutely no justification for the deaths of children anywhere, including Gaza.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I am not the one to bring up the Palestinian children. A JT article of March 21 was in fact titled "Suspect in France shootings claims he wanted to avenge Palestinian children". As I tried to explain to you a number of times (and this will be the last) at least on poster was justifying those murders committed by the IDF (what you refer to above as "alleged Israeli actions") by blaming Hamas or the rockets. My point all along was that blaming Hamas or the rockets for the murder of the hundreds of Palestinian children is just as demented as blaming Israel for the murder of Israeli children by Merah. We all acknowledged that Merah was a crackpot for thinking that. Interestingly, not everyone on this forum is willing to accept that blaming Hamas or the rockets for the murder of hundreds of Palestinian children is sick and disgusting.

No, Berryblue. You brought up Palestinian children in this thread. It was you who addressed me with 'I hope you don't blame Hamas for the murder of Palestinian children by the IDF'. Again, I don't defend or justify Israel's bully boy tactics or that of its big brother America. My original point was that the Toulouse school attack was an act of anti-Semitism and it was OTHERS (yourself and another poster) who tried to say it wasn't. While you say certain posters were justifying the attack on Hamas, I also saw posts which said the fact anti-Semitism coming back was perfectly natural, 'the pendulum swinging back'.

One poster said the murdered children were the victims of Israel's policies. How is that not an attempt at justification? It's others such as yourself who tries to read minds and create situations, I've gone by facts. As soon as Merah clarifiied his own anti-Semitism in the phone call, people said he must have been 'confused' (MIND READING), or that the entire call was made up (conspiracy theory). It's you who has run away from the facts Berryblue, sorry to say.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

oginmome,

Another well thought out and written post. Would that those you are writing to actually take the time to read it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Mohamed’s mother Zoulhika Aziri, released without charge on Friday, was “wracked with guilt and remorse” over her son’s actions

At least someone in the family has a conscience.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Theres an article in Courrier International (Merah était-il un informateur des services de renseignements?) raises the possibility that Merah might have been an informer. Interesting read, but not sur what to make of it, yet.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

but not sur what to make of it, yet.

I would not make too much of it. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Certainly, eventually some their info will either be confirmed or refuted. Lets wait and see.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The one you quoted will be refuted or ignored because it is not based in reality.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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