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French police clash with anti-virus pass protesters in Paris

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By BOUBKAR BENZABAT and ELAINE GANLEY

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Just about a year ago I remember very well somewhat early on into this covud fiasco that some on the political right very quickly said that we will need vaccine passports to travel in the near future, and of course, right on que, the political left tried desperately to label it a 'conspiracy theory'.

-3 ( +20 / -23 )

I stand with the protesters, Vive la France!!!!

-12 ( +19 / -31 )

“I think that we mustn’t be told what to do,” she told The Associated Press

I agree with this young nurse.

The government can't force their way into her body without her consent.

If you don't know what consent means use the FRIES acronym:

F = Freely Given

R = Reversible

I = Informed

E = Enthusiastic

S = Specific

Using coercion, threats or fear to obtain consent is assault.

-13 ( +17 / -30 )

It’s clear there are two types of people on earth: those who want to live and let live, and those who are hellbent on trying to control the lives of others. It’s also clear that the foaming-at-the-mouth-walking-dead vaccine mob is going to have a fight on their hands worldwide.

-8 ( +19 / -27 )

What a lot of left media seemingly intentionally leave out is the fact that the free thinking people are protesting the vaccine passports vs the vaccine itself therefore possibly misleading the populace as to why people are protesting. One could even say misinformation or disinformation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lcdDJCj6q8

-9 ( +12 / -21 )

Using coercion, threats or fear to obtain consent is assault.

That is correct and that is exactly what the political left is doing by shamelessly trying to label anti vaccine people as super spreaders all the while intentionally ignoring illegal border crossings of several western nations without checking the migrants for covid.

-6 ( +14 / -20 )

And it's not just France, it's all over Europe and Australia.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

I stand with the protesters, Vive la France!!!!

Most of France doesn't even stand with them, because it's a movement mainly composed of far-right hateful idiots. Support at your own risk.

6 ( +24 / -18 )

Time is running out on the anti-vaxxers. People are tired of having their lives (literally) and their livelihoods (jobs) on the line because someone else believes their ideals are worth more than other people's lives.

More people will continue to get vaccinated and the anti-vaxxers will get fewer in numbers.

10 ( +24 / -14 )

Out of all the vaccines I have had in my life...tetanus, smallpox, measles, polio, meningitis, TB, etc... I have never seen so much wishy washi-ness over a vaccine that says I have to wear a mask and socially distance even when fully vaccinated. That I could still contract or spread the virus even when fully vaccinated, never been bribed by establishments to take the vaccine in order to win a car and/or cash prizes. I was never judged if I didn't take it. I was never discriminated against for travel or other regular services. The vaccines I listed above never told me I was a bad person for not taking it...or taking it for that matter. 

I have never seen a vaccine that threatened the relationship between a family member and/or a close friend. Never seen it used for political gain. Never seen it used to persuade kids in favor of free ice cream. 

I have never seen a vaccine that I had to worry about mix and matching and yet told it's ok to do it one day and then told the next day to not do it...then on and off, on and off again and again. 

I have never seen a vaccine that threatens someone's livelihood, job, school etc.

I have never seen a vaccine that allows a 12-year old's consent to supersede his/her parent's consent (that one alone blows me away). 

So, after all, I have said can someone tell me how on God's green earth I am a conspiracy theorist, uneducated, non-researched, not following the “science” for not willing to take this vaccine UNTIL the clinical trials are over at least two years from now??

Finally, after all the vaccines (shots) I listed above, I have never seen a vaccine like this one that discriminates, divides, and judges a society such as this one.

This is one powerful vaccine. It does all these things that I mentioned and yet, It doesn't do what all the other vaccines (shots) that I mentioned earlier were designed to do (and successfully achieved I might add) which is...fight off CoFlu that you have an extremely high chance (99.8%) of recovery from.

5 ( +21 / -16 )

You really don't understand context, do you? Or you do, but deliberately ignore it to advance your agenda.

So you think the hordes of mindless drones that repeat false information are free from responsibility for their disinformation efforts? sorry but "context" do not exculpate any of them, each of the people that keep using falsehoods to defend their mistaken opinion is also pathologically dishonest and endanger the health and life of others.

It may be tempting to think "my lies are not really that important, millionaires do much more damage", but that would be just excuses, a thousand nameless people spreading disinformation do a huge amount of damage and they should be held responsible for their actions.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

Even firefighters are out protesting it: https://youtu.be/VhZdW0c3xjw

'Far right' I think they are not

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Once again we see the education issues facing the world. People getting their news from one (or maybe two) news sources. Yes, freedom to choose is a lovely idea and trumps almost everything. But it doesn't trump a pandemic where you could infect and possibly kill someone just by standing next to them or talking to them. As Darwin said, it's those most responsive to change that survive. If you want your Liberty back, adapt, learn, and just get the damn vaccination. It's that simple.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Enough of the anti-vaccine idiocy. Get the shot or get shunned from employment or admission.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

This is traditional. If the French government passed a law stating that Mardi followed Lundi, folk would be out there throwing rocks at the gendarmes and getting thumped in return. Across the Channel, the English equivalent is a 'race riot' leading to the widespread 'early adoption' of next generation TV sets from the smouldering remains of any shops that are still trading.

Ironically I had just downloaded a vaccine pass before reading this. The UK NHS app is a bit of a faff to set up and sometimes crashes, but it works well enough to spit out a QR code for a domestic (2 day expiry) or international (30 day) pass. The time limit is for 'data privacy'. This is suspicious and pointless, as it is simply a record that two vaccines have been administered. It's not like they can be retrospectively unadministered. You can then download a pdf version to e-mail or print off.

It does seem like the all-too-convenient imposition of ID and tracking by the back door. But most things in the UK involving the government, especially tech, that appear to be infringements upon liberty, turn out to be operationally-challenged lash ups, with more care taken in pocketing the fees for producing them, than in testing, implementing or policing them. Those fearing Orwellian repression should remember that the British police have been unable to cope with increased numbers of locked-in drunken holidaymakers at UK resorts. I don't think they have the stormtroopers for nationwide repression.

The French pass is required more widely and backed up by fines. However, there may be a glitch with French law that bans anyone but the police from verifying an ID, so folk just look at it and wave you through. Inevitably nefarious miscreants are loaning out their vaccine passports to others.

It's a pandemic. Give it a few weeks and most government policies will have changed again.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@WobotToday  08:38 am JST

Even firefighters are out protesting it: https://youtu.be/VhZdW0c3xjw

'Far right' I think they are not.

__

Just because one is a fireman it doesn't that one is not on the far right. In fact, the military and police has a disproportionately high number of far right individuals in its ranks. BTW, fireman are part of the military in France.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Another point, as a Frenchman I can inform you that the Marine Le Pen 'far right' in France is considerably to the left of Japan's LDP. And, although I wouldn't vote for them, they're not fascists, they're just conservatives who are sick of North African migrants that do not conform to French values. Again, to the left of the Australian Conservatives, also.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

So you think the hordes of mindless drones that repeat false information are free from responsibility for their disinformation efforts? sorry but "context" do not exculpate any of them, each of the people that keep using falsehoods to defend their mistaken opinion is also pathologically dishonest and endanger the health and life of others.

Yes, I strongly agree!

But the big question is which side is made up of "mindless drones". And until there is a free and open discussion (there has not been any yet), people should be free to choose.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Just because one is a fireman it doesn't that one is not on the far right. In fact, the military and police has a disproportionately high number of far right individuals in its ranks. BTW, fireman are part of the military in France.

Well if they're part of the military that's even more of a problem for the government. Now the police are joining the protesters...

https://www.bitchute.com/video/aqPzx8jtYmOn/

https://mobile.twitter.com/WorldAltMedia/status/1421573728949899266

More like it's the 'far right' in government that are trying to destroy society as it stands to take control of what's left

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

But the big question is which side is made up of "mindless drones".

That is not a really difficult to solve question, are the people on the side of the scientific consensus or not? if not it becomes much more likely they are just repeating disinformation to justify their mistaken conclusions.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Time is running out on the anti-vaxxers. People are tired of having their lives (literally) and their livelihoods (jobs) on the line because someone else believes their ideals are worth more than other people's lives.

In other words we could see another revolution on our hands because it seems like these protesters will not allow the government to dictate to them what they should put in their bodies. I wouldn’t nor should they or anyone for that matter. If these governments want to go there, it’s going to end badly.

More people will continue to get vaccinated and the anti-vaxxers will get fewer in numbers.

If they work for the government they will, but privately, doubt it. In that sense the French are very similar to us when it comes to big government sticking its nose or in this case, a needle in someone else’s arm.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

they're not fascists, they're just conservatives who are sick of North African migrants that do not conform to French values.

Change "North African migrants" to "Jews" and you have the foundation of Naziism. Other than her choice of scapegoat she is very little different than Hitler and every bit as detestable.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

bass: If these governments want to go there, it’s going to end badly.

Not based off the numbers. I don't think the anti-vaxxers would last very long in a revolution, and more to your point, no one is forcing them to be vaccinated. We're just walling them off from the rest of society is all.

And if anti-vaxxers keep congregating together with the Delta variant around they'd basically be thinning their own numbers anyway.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

The drug companies are in it for the money, peddling out something rushed,needing booster shots(for the obvious reason),but having govts happy to enforce people to take it or else.That is not a tried and trusted formula to work with.The sheep are happy tho.And a few gaijin I know are embarrassingly so. Ah well...lol.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Time is running out on the anti-vaxxers

I think so too. They are in a minority that will continue to shrink.

They are a drag on society and I get the sense patience is wearing thinner and thinner with them, but anger towards them is not appropriate nor constructive.

One of the reasons I tend left is that I believe we can’t help the cards we were dealt. Anti-vaxxers tend to be very one-dimensional, not the brightest, and tend towards a hymn sheet of beliefs. Some are just hysterical. You can predict what they’ll think on a variety of topics. There are smart, cynical types out there on the alternative media who prey on them. I find this cruel.

My belief is that as countries take appropriate measures to safeguard health systems in particular, the anti-vaxxers will see their options become more and more limited.

The editors of the hymn sheet bear a lot of responsibility here. I get the sense many are cracking.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Not based off the numbers.

According to whom?

I don't think the anti-vaxxers would last very long in a revolution,

The Brits thought the same about the farmers, merchants and pheasants in the colonies as well.

and more to your point, no one is forcing them to be vaccinated. We're just walling them off from the rest of society is all.

Hmmm, that comment had a lot of memorable German undertones in it

And if anti-vaxxers keep congregating together with the Delta variant around they'd basically be thinning their own numbers anyway.

Even from the bias New Democrat ally the CDC website it doesn’t seem so.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Dude with ubiquitous chin mask and Palestinian flag prominently on display.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The drug companies are in it for the money, peddling out something rushed,needing booster shots(for the obvious reason),but having govts happy to enforce people to take it or else.That is not a tried and trusted formula to work with.The sheep are happy tho.And a few gaijin I know are embarrassingly so. Ah well...lol.

Ignore the drug companies, just listen to the experts working for public health (because thinking all the best professionals in every single country of the whole world are in the conspiracy would be... crazy, right?) that say vaccines are not rushed, and that at this point there is no need of boosters.

You can choose to listen to the best minds that have dedicates their lives to protect the health of others and that have the data to prove their conclusions, or some guy that made a video on youtube saying the opposite. What you can't do is to be on the side of the youtube guy and say this is a rational decision, because it is not.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

More hysteria from the left posters here who don't understand the basic issues.

I think we know where the hysterics are coming from. The walls closed in on that debate long ago.

@bass

According to whom?

As we are discussing France here, do you have figures showing that the majority of French people are anti-vaccination or are against the passes mentioned in this article?

As far as I know, well over half the adult population has received at least one shot. Can you point me towards figures showing a majority against the passes?

Thanks in advance.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

JimizoToday  10:57 am JST

This is a problem worldwide. 

I heard someone say that hospitals should refuse to treat unvaccinated adults with Covid as these are the people overwhelmingly clogging up the hospital and lowering the quality of care given to everyone else. 

I think that’s a step too far but you can see the reasoning behind it.

A reasonable person would not see the reasoning behind it, unless you argue that hospitals shouldn't treat people who don't wear seatbelts and are involved in car crashes, or shouldn't treat people who have diseases from smoking, overeating, drinking alcohol, or whatever.

Is that part of the far-left extremists' vision of a utopian safe-space world?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

As we are discussing France here, do you have figures showing that the majority of French people are anti-vaccination or are against the passes mentioned in this article? 

Do you?

As far as I know, well over half the adult population has received at least one shot.

According to whom?

Can you point me towards figures showing a majority against the passes? 

Can you show the medical evidence a couple of them that allegedly states these claims.?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

and that at this point there is no need of boosters.

In Japan, Kono said a booster would be a good idea.Does it work properly or do they want to get more money? Reminds me of the joke: There's no money in the cure,it's in the medicine.That's how you get paid.On the come back.Drug companies are like drug dealers.They make their money on the come back too.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Is that part of the far-left extremists' vision of a utopian safe-space world?

What you describe would actually be a libertarian utopia.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

In Japan, Kono said a booster would be a good idea.

And he is an expert in what exactly? virology, immunology, epidemiology? and specially what data is he using to contradict the actual experts? You seem fixed only on listening to people you have no need to, just to criticize them since you can't do the same as the people you should actually be listening, just because you have nothing to criticize them.

On the come back.Drug companies are like drug dealers.They make their money on the come back too.

Look for an average of how much an hospitalization for COVID cost and how much one vaccine does, then add the fact that boosters are a much more simpler thing to develop and test compared with a priming vaccine, which means even third world countries can do it. According to this terribly faulty argument pharmaceutical companies profit much more from people rejecting the vaccines. So, do you believe big pharma is funding anitvaxxer propaganda?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

And until there is a free and open discussion (there has not been any yet)

What you mean by "free and open discussion" is simply "people should stop throwing scientific facts and reality in my face and accept that I'm right without any proof."

The "discussion" has been going on for months. Openly. In every media. And one side is consistently losing the debate.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Look for an average of how much an hospitalization for COVID cost and how much one vaccine does, then add the fact that boosters are a much more simpler thing to develop and test compared with a priming vaccine, which means even third world countries can do it. According to this terribly faulty argument pharmaceutical companies profit much more from people rejecting the vaccines. So, do you believe big pharma is funding anitvaxxer propaganda?

You have your lane of thinking and I have mine.But it's been pointed out on here before that you work for one of these drug dea..,I mean companies,so your point of view would naturally be slanted. Actually it was my wife who told me what Kono said,but people can find any expert that will say what they want to hear. Is big pharma funding the anti-vaxxers? Ah,hell no.they are promoting these companies unwittingly with their loud noise,which enables them to make more money.Seeing people maskless and demonstrating in large numbers scare people.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

A reasonable person would not see the reasoning behind it, unless you argue that hospitals shouldn't treat people who don't wear seatbelts and are involved in car crashes, or shouldn't treat people who have diseases from smoking, overeating, drinking alcohol, or whatever.

Is that part of the far-left extremists' vision of a utopian safe-space world?

You are not making sense here. I don’t know what safe spaces have to do with this.

It’s actually an argument for personal responsibility which usually comes from the right, and as jsapc posted, from libertarians. If you eat too much, drink too much, smoke too much, drive without a seatbelt or don’t get vaccinated, that’s your choice and you shouldn’t expect others to pick up the pieces.

As I said, not my opinion. I see the reasoning but it’s too cruel for me. I think you must tend further towards the bleeding heart left than I do if you can’t even accept the reasoning.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The "discussion" has been going on for months. Openly. In every media. And one side is consistently losing the debate.

Except for the questions about the growing side effects, why some people are being forced to wear masks, why more younger children have to wear them, why so many of our leaders are caught not wearing them, why so many vaccinated people are still getting the virus and why wear masks when they don’t help, but the death rate is going down despite the infection rate going up and many, many more questions, but we are just told to shut up, listen to the government, we can’t talk or debate it on most social platform, they just delete it or put a disclaimer next our question. We are not allowed to ask anything, it’s only a losing debate when our leaders and medical officials tell you to be quiet, trust us and do as we tell you to do. This is why trust is eroding around the globe when it comes to trusting our leaders and that distrust continues to grow and growing faster.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Enough of the anti-vaccine idiocy. Get the shot or get shunned from employment or admission.

Wow. That says it all from that political mind set.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

It’s actually an argument for personal responsibility

I actually agree 100%.

If I get Covid, I won't go to a hospital, I'll just wait it out at home. It won't cost the medical system 1 dime.

If I get the vaccine and develop blood clots or Guillain-Barre syndrome I'll have no choice but to enter a hospital and use up the time of doctors and nurses.

As an act of social responsibility, I don't want to take the vaccine and risk straining the medical system.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

As far as I know, well over half the adult population has received at least one shot. 

According to whom?

According to figures released by the French government.

Do you think they are lying about the numbers vaccinated? Do you think other governments are doing it too?

This is fascinating.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Get down off that cross dear, somebody needs the wood.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I've never translated "liberte" as "freedumb"; guess I should update my definition... If these people want to take themselves off the count, I'll take the long view: 50 years from now the world will be better off without them, or their genes, in the pool. That's what pandemics do, they cull the weak. Segregate them, quarantine them, and when they've had 2 jabs and a negative test result, give them a vaccine passport and let them rejoin society.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

You have your lane of thinking and I have mine.

The difference is that yours can easily be proven mistaken. Which apparently does not stop you from repeating it, even when fully knowing it is mistaken.

But it's been pointed out on here before that you work for one of these drug dea..,I mean companies,so your point of view would naturally be slanted.

One that would have absolutely no importance on any of the information I posted, which means you are still wrong. Two is that baseless accusations are a terribly poor thing to base your argument, because it is as simple as me saying this is not true to make your whole position false. There, as easily as that. Or what? can you prove in any way that I work or not in something? As I proved with the example, you are much more likely to be working for a pharmaceutical companies, because trying to mislead people into rejecting vaccines means much more profit for them.

but people can find any expert that will say what they want to hear.

And still you could find not a single institution of science or medicine that says boosters are necessary for the general population (much less that they need any company to produce them), which actually proves this false. Again very easily. was it not super easy to do?

Is big pharma funding the anti-vaxxers? Ah,hell no

And your proof? you did absolutely nothing to disprove that pharmaceutical companies make more money the less people vaccinate, so people should just trust you this is not the case? even when easily proved? Seeing people maskess and congregating surely put a smile on pharmaceutical companies that will make much more money than with vaccines, sad to see you supporting this in spite of the damage on public health.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

If I get Covid, I won't go to a hospital, I'll just wait it out at home. It won't cost the medical system 1 dime.

If I get the vaccine and develop blood clots or Guillain-Barre syndrome I'll have no choice but to enter a hospital and use up the time of doctors and nurses.

You have more chances of ending up in the hospital because of Covid than from getting vaccins blood clots, so your point makes no sense.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

JsapcToday  11:55 am JST

You have more chances of ending up in the hospital because of Covid than from getting vaccins blood clots, so your point makes no sense.

Nah, not true.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Sad, but true.

https://100percentfedup.com/stunning-videos-show-hundreds-of-thousands-of-french-citizens-taking-to-streets-to-protest-mandatory-covid-shots-and-passports-while-americans-seem-to-be-okay-with-democrat-led-fascism/

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@Burning Bush

Just to be clear, are you in the don’t treat the unvaccinated camp? You are speaking about what you would do, but how about it as a policy?

There are many posters here who tend far more libertarian than me, does the argument about personal responsibility hold any water for you?

I just wonder where the libertarian and conservative idea of personal responsibility draws its boundaries.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

JsapcToday  07:16 am JST

I stand with the protesters, Vive la France!!!!

Most of France doesn't even stand with them, because it's a movement mainly composed of far-right hateful idiots. Support at your own risk.

Le Pen the fascist is behind much of this.

Desert TortoiseToday  10:08 am JST

they're not fascists, they're just conservatives who are sick of North African migrants that do not conform to French values.

Change "North African migrants" to "Jews" and you have the foundation of Naziism. Other than her choice of scapegoat she is very little different than Hitler and every bit as detestable.

Fascism comes in many forms in various countries. Nazi Germany offed 6 million Jews. In Falangist Spain the Basques and Galacians were persecuted. Japan's fascist regime picked on Koreans, Chinese, ethnic groups of its smaller islands. Serbia under Milosevic persecuted Muslims. Trump committed crimes against humanity on Hispanics.

Fascists everywhere are detestable. No matter where it's at, or what they call themselves as a party - it's always violence, persecution, hatred and ugly. It always is.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Nah, not true.

What statistics are you using to say this is not true? what percentage of hospitalization. The data until now clearly shows risk of clotting from the AZ vaccine is much less than the risk from COVID infection for all groups where vaccination is indicated.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

According to figures released by the French government. 

Hmmm…

Do you think they are lying about the numbers vaccinated?

About exaggerating the details, I do.

Do you think other governments are doing it too?

Yes, to a degree.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Le Pen the fascist is behind much of this. 

Can you prove that? Not every French person that has concerns about the vaccine is a supporter of LePen

> Fascism comes in many forms in various countries. Nazi Germany offed 6 million Jews. In Falangist Spain the Basques and Galacians were persecuted. Japan's fascist regime picked on Koreans, Chinese, ethnic groups of its smaller islands. Serbia under Milosevic persecuted Muslims.

What on Earth are you talking about???

Trump committed crimes against humanity on Hispanics. 

That is absolutely not even remotely close to the Truth. Tune off CNN for once.

Fascists everywhere are detestable. No matter where it's at, or what they call themselves as a party - it's always violence, persecution, hatred and ugly. It always is. 

Or maybe people are just saying, we are sick and tired of big government telling us what to do.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The marches drew some 204,000 people around the country

Well done, saying no to discrimination based on one's personal and private health choices. Perhaps Australia and a few other countries could use the courage of these people.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Look for an average of how much an hospitalization for COVID cost and how much one vaccine does

Yes, one hospitalization does cost more than one vaccine. But how many vaccines are sold for each prevented hospitalization?

And how much of the hospitalization cost goes to Pfizer, Astrazeneca....? Not much.

then add the fact that boosters are a much more simpler thing to develop and test compared with a priming vaccine, which means even third world countries can do it.

Third world countries will never be allowed to produce their own mRNA vaccines (according to Gates and others). Rich countries will have to buy and donate them.

According to this terribly faulty argument pharmaceutical companies profit much more from people rejecting the vaccines. So, do you believe big pharma is funding anitvaxxer propaganda?

Pharma is clearly funding the provax and anti-cheap-safe-effect-meds propaganda.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Do you think they are lying about the numbers vaccinated? 

About exaggerating the details, I do.

What details? They are either vaccinated or they are not.

This would be scandalous. Governments are factoring in numbers vaccinated when making policy. It goes without saying that you have good evidence for this belief.

Incidentally, in France do you believe they are giving a scandalously misleading figure which overcounts or undercounts the true number and why?

This is absolutely fascinating.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

JsapcToday  11:20 am JST

What you describe would actually be a libertarian utopia.

Interesting then that you are a libertarian at heart yet promote a far-left extremist dialogue.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

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