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French soldier stabbed in throat in Paris

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shaking my head *
3 ( +4 / -1 )

Personal attack against soldiers versus drones dropping bombs 11,000kms away, which is more terrifying?

Somehow attacking soldiers with your hands seems more noble than massive "civilian casualties" I mean "collateral damage" from invisible bombs. Which has killed more innocents? Western media has no idea of unbiased reporting.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

Which has killed more innocents?

Probably suicide bombers, mosque bombings and improvised explosive devices (IED).

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Kashiwa* how many suicide bombers are killed by drones? Created by drone bombings, absolutely but drones kill more innocents than terrorists. As much as terrorism is a scourge, drones won't "fix" the problem. Neither will sending troops to resource rich states to support unpopular regimes.

I think you missed the point of comparing these personal attacks against professional soldiers (the article) versus drone bombings.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Spudman - are you seriously calling the assailant noble? I think most civilians killed in Afghanistan have been murdered by the 'noble' Taliban or other home-grown terrorists.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

The act while murder is certainly more courageous than the drone option. Not condoning it at all.

I think most civilians killed in Afghanistan have been murdered by the 'noble' Taliban or other home-grown terrorists.

No, they have been killed in civil wars. Oh and in invasions by foreign nations, same for Iraqis. Same in America in it's short history as well.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

time for soldiers to be armed so that they can simply shoot dead these terrorists.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The early stage of culture clash to come. Please do some reading on history of Islam and its expansion to find out how the founder of Islam and devotees spread religion from a small community across the globe, and still expanding until the ultimate goal will be achieved. It makes the drone strike look like a peanut under the march of Islamic forces. Most East Asian nations, Indonesia, Malaysia, parts of Africa, Iran, Turkey......were not Muslim nations to begin with! Now, the horses and swords will be replaced by oil money, bombs, missiles, nuclear....etc. The new age of renaissance and reformation, apparently missed some aspect of civilization.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

time for soldiers to be armed so that they can simply shoot dead these terrorists.

He was armed, duh! http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-131014-france-mali-03.photoblog900.jpg

1 ( +4 / -3 )

t was the western media that folded when they should have been asking the hard questions of the Bush administration, and you still call them liberal?

OK, so the "liberal media" is off the hook with regard to how you formed your opinions. That's a relief.

Personal attack against soldiers versus drones dropping bombs 11,000kms away, which is more terrifying?

It's obvious which one is more relevant to the topic.

How many drone attacks have the French made?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Thunderbird2May. 26, 2013 - 08:20AM JST

Spudman - are you seriously calling the assailant noble?

Oh come on, of course he's not. He's just saying that it's just as noble as a drone attack and I would like to add that it has less collateral damage.

A soldier is a legitimate target in this war, just like a member of a Taliban is.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

He's just saying that it's just as noble as a drone attack and I would like to add that it has less collateral damage.

The story has this to say: "In March last year, self-declared Islamist Mohamed Merah killed seven people in a shooting spree in and around the city of Toulouse. Three of them were French soldiers."

Seems like the radical Islamists don't concern themselves with collateral damage either.

A soldier is a legitimate target in this war, just like a member of a Taliban is.

Based on this attack, you're helping me feel less and less concerned about the collateral damage inflicted on the side whose radicals don't clearly identify themselves as "soldiers" but hide behind non-combatants -- increasing their legitimacy as targets.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

yabitsMay. 26, 2013 - 11:07AM JST

The story has this to say: "In March last year, self-declared Islamist Mohamed Merah killed seven people in a shooting spree in and around the city of Toulouse. Three of them were French soldiers." Seems like the radical Islamists don't concern themselves with collateral damage either.

I never said they did

Based on this attack, you're helping me feel less and less concerned about the collateral damage inflicted on the side whose radicals don't clearly identify themselves as "soldiers" but hide behind non-combatants -- increasing their legitimacy as targets.

You should leave the simple morality at the exit of the next Hollywood blockbuster viewing. 'All good' verses 'all bad' and 'all good' will win, is just not reality.

The US, the UK, the jihadists are all as bad as each other. Attacks like this will not be stopped by bombing compounds in the mountains of Peshwar or the rendition imprisonment without trial of people who dare to oppose the Western party line. They will only cease, when violence is taken of the table by all sides and I can't see that happening in the next decade so you better get use to them, enjoy the life you have and stop being scared of every man with a beard and cappucino colored skin

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

How many dictators have the French propped up?

http://www.fpif.org/articles/propping_up_africas_dictators " Between 1997 and 2002, for example, France intervened over 34 times, 26 of which were conducted outside of the UN's umbrella. During the past five years, French military troops in Gabon, Chad, Central African Republic, Senegal, and Cote d'Ivoire have either increased or remained the same. France's Minister of Defense admits to 10,000 specialized soldiers active on the continent (2004-07)."

That invites some kind of military response don't you think? What we call terrorism is a poor mans tactics to force governments, which are elected by the civilian population, to question their actions. We in the west seem to think their is a separation between a countries soldiers killing on our behalf and our personal responsibility for such actions, there isn't, in fact there is a greater responsibility attached as a democratic state to question more vigorously those we elected to make such decisions.

Face it, if there weren't mineral resources in these areas we wouldn't care in the least about them.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

This is going to start a trend of cold blooded murder that in effect will be unstoppable, also in doing these heinous acts there will be collateral damage to innocent people inevitably and regrettably .

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Spudman

I admire your duty to serve,

No you don't. You probably call us all murderers.

but open your eyes to the fact that soldiers are paid to follow orders

Yes. That is what we do.

not question the morality of those orders.

We don't get ordered to do morally wrong things. I guess that depends on your morals. But looking back, I have a clear conscience.

That's the free public's job. Shalom.

No. Its not. Because they don't know the full facts, and so they shouldn't make moral judgements.

Bin Laden was under the American military heel waiting to be squashed.

If you believe that, you are very dumb.

Offended at an opinion, thin skin? Harden up soldier!

Not thin skinned, just sick of people spreading stupid lies.

Oh, and marines aren't soldiers. We're marines.

Liberal media has nothing to do with history, read it and form an informed opinion.

Hahahahahahaha! That is funny. The liberal media has its own agenda. So, it is the furthest you can get from an informed opinion.

It was the western media that folded when they should have been asking the hard questions of the Bush administration, and you still call them liberal?

It did ask the questions. Doesn't ask questions that might offend the minorities though, does it? Must not offend the terrorists! They have to question the use of drones, when they have saved a lot of lives. They've taken out camps that have had terrorists who attack civilian market places, mosques, and schools.

If they were so against the foreign military being there, why do they kill their own children? And why does the media attack the troops and the policies that are in place to stop that stuff from happening?

If you think pulling out troops from those countries would help the people there, you are naive.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This is the face of the homegrown jihad that Europe has brought on itself. There will be plenty of more attacks like this, and riots like now in the suburbs of Stockholm.

Europe is reaping the result of ignoring radical islam which is taught freely by fundamentalist clerics around the continent (who are often so far out on the salafist wing that they are banned in their middle Eastern homelands).

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Hopefully this is a copycat by a lone nutter and not something that is going to become the norm in Europe. These incidents cause more division in society. A small amount of people are causing these problems, to further their agenda. Radicalised unstable people can be led to do anything in a sort of trance at times. Those that set these people up to these murders must be traced and stopped. On the other side the racists will hide behind being "offended" and use that as an excuse to attack dark and Muslim people.

Violence, hatred and oppression will lead to more of this. Bad decisions by governments on all sides lead to events like this and fuel the fires that make some feel this type of attack is justified. The Muslim fanatics and some western leaders and elite do things to divide us as that is how they get results. Divide and conquer, but those with brains and power do not get blood on their hands they use the weak minded.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Most East Asian nations......were not Muslim nations to begin with!

True, but in fact, no nation was Islamic "to begin with" - or any other religion, for that matter.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Dog "A soldier is a legitimate target in this war, just like a member of a Taliban is."

What war?

These biters of the hand that feeds them are living legally in the US, the UK, France and deriving the benefits of these societies. Ordinary people living there do not see a 'war'. If there is a war, it is a one-sided war being waged by radical Islamists. How do you expect people to defend themselves?

Even if NATO withdraws all troops from Afghanistan as is happening now, allowing the legitimate Islamic government to stand on its own two feet, the jihad will continue. It needs no excuse as the agenda is already in place. Whether the West does something or does not do something is irrelevant, merely a tool for recruiting propaganda.

The blame for all these attacks lies squarely with organizations that use terror to achieve socio-political goals. If they called a cease-fire, everyone could go home happy and the drones would disappear.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

No you don't. You probably call us all murderers.

Different things. Have marines murdered innocents? Yes. However their belief in their duty is admirable. You presume incorrectly.

We don't get ordered to do morally wrong things. I guess that depends on your morals. But looking back, I have a clear conscience.

You would, you're paid to.

Because they don't know the full facts, and so they shouldn't make moral judgements.

Your view of democracy is seriously flawed. How the heck can you fight for something you don't understand? That is ignorant naivety.

If you believe that, you are very dumb.

Read what the people on the ground said. Again get informed and stop being personal, if you can't you must be the result of an incestuous relationship. Are you from Tennessee?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14190032 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/world/asia/29torabora.html?_r=0

Oh, and marines aren't soldiers. We're marines.

Soldiers with a cliquish name are still soldiers, learn to read a dictionary.

The liberal media has its own agenda. So, it is the furthest you can get from an informed opinion.

Oh no the bubble is back. Don't like the truth and right wing nuts scream liberal media. Grow a pair.

If they were so against the foreign military being there, why do they kill their own children? And why does the media attack the troops and the policies that are in place to stop that stuff from happening?

You're rambling

If you think pulling out troops from those countries would help the people there, you are naive.

Worked in Viet Nam, yeah Mai Lai Vietnam, read about that Mr Marine? If you think it's not about money your fooling yourself.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Spudman

You would, you're paid to

Probably.

Read what the people on the ground said. Again get informed and stop being personal, if you can't you must be the result of an incestuous relationship. Are you from Tennessee?

I was one of the people on the ground. I know a lot of people on the ground.

Soldiers with a cliquish name are still soldiers, learn to read a dictionary.

NO. Marines are marines.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/soldier?s=t

Soldiers serve in the army. Sorry. You lose.

Oh no the bubble is back. Don't like the truth and right wing nuts scream liberal media. Grow a pair.

I certainly don't have to grow a pair. Unlike armchair specialists like yourself, I know I have a pair.

You're rambling

Can't answer, so that is your reply?

Worked in Viet Nam, yeah Mai Lai Vietnam, read about that Mr Marine? If you think it's not about money your fooling yourself.

The old "it worked in some other completely different situation, so it must work here too" arguement?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Probie and Spudman, enough of this nonsense. Please focus your comments on what is in the story and not at each other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Readers, please stop bickering.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I see that this is now being handled as a terrorist attack by the French authorities

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That's right, always trust the authorities and the mainstream media.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I think you guys confuse France and UK. It's UK that has armies in Afghanistan, and that got a soldier killed by guys saying they opposed the war. That does look like a copy-cat in France, but a foolish one. Primo : France has left the Afghan scene years ago. So doing an attack now to ask its army to leave is a nonsense. Segundo the man is not a soldier but a domestic security staff. There is no way anyone in France made the mistake. 70% of French domestic security personal, he is employed by the army ministry, but such staff are totally unrelated with defense army. They give you speed ticket on the road and stand next to airport staff during your luggage check at the airport or at the entrance of a shopping mall. So targeting him for revenge over Afghanistan or anywhere would be a non-sense. I mean they could as well target the lady in uniform that makes the kids cross the road safely in from of the school. Or target the kids.

Personal attack against soldiers versus drones dropping bombs 11,000kms away, which is more terrifying?

Why should I accept any ? How do you know the 2 are related ? The Akiba slasher, he was doing it against the drones maybe ?

I think you missed the point of comparing these personal attacks against professional soldiers (the article) versus drone bombings.

There is no point. In what the French security staff of shopping malls are related to American drones ?

A soldier is a legitimate target in this war, just like a member of a Taliban is.

What is this war ? Are there Talibans in France ? The case of France in Afghanistan is closed. But maybe you mean that it's legitimate for any Muslim to target any non-Muslim civil servant in this war under the pretext that the State hiring them would have victimized Muslims somewhere at some point in the past ? That's the mindset of the jihadists and their hate-monger gurus like Anjem Choudary. I don't find that legitimate at all.

I see that this is now being handled as a terrorist attack by the French authorities

They can't consider is as a fact of war, for sure.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

French troops were in Mali and Niger recently?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Yes, Zichi, Mali, and they are preparing to finish the mission. But well the situation in Mali is not "innocent Muslim civilians killed by drones", the intervention was to stop the herds of violent thugs that are slaughtering fellow Muslims.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cos I agree, but that don't mean everyone understands or accepts it that way?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I think you guys confuse France and UK. It's UK that has armies in Afghanistan, and that got a soldier killed by guys saying they opposed the war.

The soldier was killed by a guy who opposed the countless innocent civilians murdered by the British military.

France has left the Afghan scene years ago. So doing an attack now to ask its army to leave is a nonsense.

Afghanistan is not the only place where thousands of innocent Muslim civilians are continually murdered by western military forces. France has plenty of blood on its hands with Lybia and Syria, just to name a few.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

I'm starting to get the feeling that if I went out in public and committed some unspeakable murder, then told the world I did it because the mistreatment of Muslims, there would be people here actually defending me because I said that. Pretty creepy.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"Thousands of innocent Muslims are constantly murdered by western military forces?" Hahahaha, Bluescript, what kind of one-sided planet are you living on? I would like to write the truth here, again, but your eyes and ears are blocked.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Actually he was a soldier in vigipirate duty and not a domestice security staff .... i live in paris .. there 's no domestic staff involved in vigipirate ... it's either military or gendarmerie .. they patrol in uniform with an assault rifle

France started to leave Afghanistan last year , not years ago , and still has 1500 men there , they also undertook operations in Libya and Mali recently and have troops and military bases stationned in various places , Tchad ,Djibouti , Guyana, Liban , Kosovo etc

This is an isolated act from an amateur , surely someone with mental issues

0 ( +1 / -1 )

that don't mean everyone understands or accepts it that way?

I can understand some oppose to French policies. But my point is those attacks are very different than the previous generations, Red Army, IRA, etc. They had clear political goals, and if politics changed, they would give up violence. The new ones, their goal is to make a scary coup, pure terror. After they will quote international conflicts as reasons, but that's decorative. France could stop having a army, they'd continue, I mean there attacks in Paris, but also in Bali. The goal is to frighten the general population.

not a domestice security staff ...it's either military or gendarmerie

La gendarmerie nationale is not doing the domestic security ? "Domestic", you don't understand maybe. That just means they work on the French territory only,"interior" or "national" if you prefer, meaning "not international". The attacker could have easily found the soldiers from the armies involved in international operations. Merah had found some. It's likely this attack was done in La Defense as that's the French World Trade Center so that reminds of New-York.

There is no way anyone in France made the mistake.

OK, I stand corrected. Thanks "Ina0891".

in vigipirate duty and not a domestic security staff

"vigipirate" is the "plan of increased security watch on the French territory". 100% domestic by definition.

from an amateur

Not untrained, IMO. As you say, the vigipirate guys have a rifle, and they always have buddies not far away. That scares most amateurs. Also, he was smart enough to leave without getting caught.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

ohh yes my bad , i thought you meant private security staff , like a shop's security staff or a watcher in front of a parking , sorry

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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