Frozen by shutdown, U.S. warns of 'catastrophic' default

republicans are acting pretty un-friggin-American these days, have they no shame at all.

Its amazing how little the repubs have learned since gwb days, looking like real imbeciles!

"Its amazing how little the repubs have learned since gwb days, looking like real imbeciles!"

And back in those days they were only interested in destroying other people's countries, not orchestrating the destruction their own nation and anyone else they can take down with them.

If the US defaults they should be held accountable for domestic economic terrorism.

“Speaker John Boehner won’t even let the bill get a yes or no vote, because he doesn’t want to anger the extremists in his party,” Obama said.

Yep. The votes are there to pass a clean CR right this minute. But Republicans put party before country so government workers are forced to live off of their savings so Republicans can avoid the inevitable atomic response from the Tea Party. We're all just collateral damage to their internal war.

When the can( federal debt ) gets kicked down the road for decades and allowed to metastasize to such obscene dimensions, there comes a time when you run out of road. Scaling back real spending is very long overdue.

So, I agree with the last sentence. My problem is the first part; namely, while it is imprudent to continue down the road we are on, can and all, there still is quite a bit of road left. Recognizing this should have some implications for negotiating budgetary reform. The idea that we should risk default now so we can avoid defaulting later is absolutely impervious to logic. Playing chicken with the congressional budget is stupid and wasteful, playing chicken the debt ceiling is suicidal.

So the word is that Boehner will break the Hassert Rule and allow a straight vote on the debt ceiling, should it come to that. Good for him, and good for us. I wasn't looking forward to another global financial meltdown.

I think it's "Hastert Rule", but I only know because I had to look it up :)

Ha! Yes. Spelling was never my strong suit. Thanks for the correction.

Jean: Scaling back real spending is very long overdue.

So what's your plan? How much spending should be cut and how fast? And what should be cut? I'm sure that you and I agree that government waste should be the first thing to go, but I also know that cutting spending too much while jobs are still scarce can create more problems than it solves.

@Serrano

To the thumbs-downers to cutting foreign aid, you must not have noticed that the U.S. government is in debt up to its ears.

So you know that foreign aid is something trivial like 0.04% of the budget, or something like that. That's not to say foreign aid is sacrosanct, but rather that "cut foreign aid!" is not a serious budget reform proposal. If you want to reform spending you have to deal with the two major expenses the US has: entitlements (aka social security and Medicare/caid) and defense spending. After that, if you still want to cut foreign aid, be my guest.

This shutdown could be at least the trigger mechanism of global collapse. If the United States reneges on its debt, then that will collapse the global economy.

Yep. The votes are there to pass a clean CR right this minute.

Screw the Hassert rule., I say.

MarkG: It seems most here want to continue spending and debt for USA

Most don't want to see a default on the debt, which is the question that is in front of us now. Some people come here and give sermons on spending while not even addressing the possible default (maybe they support default?). There is a difference between good ideology and a workable plan and I haven't seen much of a workable plan from the pastors other than "cut everything."

I am not a republican

I've heard that a lot recently. Apparently there are no Republicans on this message board anymore.

Republican (lack of) shame....

Republicans made a "plea" to fund the NIH so cancer research for kids can continue. However.... "In 2010, Cantor himself proposed a $1.3 billion cut to NIH. The 2011 House Republican budget also sought to cut $1.6 billion from the agency. In House Republicans' 2013 budget proposal put forward by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), cuts to the agency's budget approached 20 percent."

Another quote showing the reckless position of a rudderless ship: "“We’re not going to be disrespected,” conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., [told the Washington Examiner]. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.”" Take your time, Congressman. I'm sure most government workers have some savings to burn through while you decide what it is that you even want.

One of my personal favorites: "Congressman Castigates Park Ranger For The Memorial Closure He Voted For". ""How do you look at them and ... deny them access?" said Neugebauer. He, with most House Republicans, had voted early Sunday morning to pass a funding measure that would delay the Affordable Care Act, a vote that set up a showdown with the Senate and President Barack Obama." He ended the conversation by telling her that she should be ashamed of herself (for enforcing a situation that he created).

To the thumbs-downers to cutting foreign aid, you must not have noticed that the U.S. government is in debt up to its ears.

You said cutting ALL foreign Aid, IMMEDIATELY. It's a daft notion. Judicious cuts, waste reduction certainly. All, immediately is just lazy. Without looking now, do you have any idea how much foreign aid we allocate and to where it goes? Probably not. It's easy to just say "ALL, IMMEDIATELY!

Now you know why.

Many here don't seem to understand the meaning of "non-essential" in this context. Here is one:

traffic investigators.

Yesterday, 8 people died in a bus crash on an interstate highway in Tennessee. Because is is an interstate, that falls under federal jurisdiction. Because of the Republican's temper tantrum, there is no investigation as to the cause of the crash.

And so no criminal or civil liability can be determined.

Not "essential". You decide.

Serrano, foreign aid is a tool of US foreign policy and they openly advertise that (just go to their website). Most of the money comes back to the US and goes to US business. That's true with most foreign aid from any country.

Either way, we're talking about drops in a pool. You aren't going to make a dent on the debt by cutting foreign aid. Or food stamps. Come back when you have some real change in mind.

You're right, what was I thinking, lol.

Fine. You want to cut foreign aid. Got it. Check.

Now what?

"So the word is that Boehner will break the Hassert Rule and allow a straight vote on the debt ceiling, should it come to that. Good for him, and good for us. I wasn't looking forward to another global financial meltdown."

I think it's "Hastert Rule", but I only know because I had to look it up :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

To put it plainly it seems that Boehner would have to grow a backbone to do pull that one over the Tea Party radicals in charge of the party. It's a shit or bust moment for him really, he's finished either way.

increasing debt ceiling is increasing spending.

C'mon, Mark, a little basic civics here, please! This only pays for what Congress has already allocated - you should know that. You could raise the debt ceiling to a gazillion dollars and it would have zero effect on the budget.

USA needs jobs. Real living wage jobs. McDonald's and Walmart jobs are mostly for young adults, part time for adults, and retirees. We need family sustaining jobs. Non-union goods paying production and service jobs.

Except for your last sentence, who wouldn't agree? The question is how to get there, and your last sentence displays radical differences in our approaches. Google how the decline in union membership correlates with the decline in sustainable wages. Sure, correlation does not necessarily imply causation - but often it does.

It seems most here want to continue spending and debt for USA. I am not a republican and I don't want this debt beyond control though I think it already is. Forget about the parties, USA has massive debt, not enough jobs, too many citizens ( and non) on subsidies, always wasteful spending, the list can go on and on.

To me a strong nation has minimal unemployment. Private industry jobs. A non-bloated state and federal workers. Face it they recycle tax dollars not generated since they are paid from tax dollars.

USA is broken, has been and getting worse.

The US can easily pay its debts because its debts are denominated in dollars, which the US has a monopoly to issue.

The problem is that the Republics are morons. Being politicians, they studied law in college, not economics.

Serrano OCT. 04, 2013 - 09:18PM JST To the thumbs-downers to cutting foreign aid, you must not have noticed that the U.S. government is in debt up to its ears.

This from the poster that advocated US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan along with the Bush tax cut trickle down "economics" that have yet to be paid for?

Look no further than this post to see why your hardcore Republicans will never ever understand the debt they're in, nor why they will they ever accept responsibility for their actions...

This would be more interesting if the discussion was about reforming the US tax code and closing the loopholes for the well off instead of the ACA. But then I guess the right wingers aren't going for that. Too bad the dems don't bring this up as a counter proposal.

At the same time I have to mention that Obama and his crowd are educated as lawyers too and have probably never had to run a business before in their lives. None of them seem to understand diddly about economics. Too bad we can't fire the lot.

Your tea party shutdown stunt will probably waste more than the pithy amount you're suggesting saving (and the damage it would cause as outlined above having blissfully sailed over your head). With each post the addiction to shrieky right wing radio talking points become inherently apparent.

Personally I'm buying stocks, since this will end. But that's just me

forcing authorities to send all non-essential workers home.

So maybe then they don't need these non essential workers anyway, how about they don't keep non essential workers if they are not essential. More wasted money by irresponsible people who run govts for their own egos.

Republicans want to make a point at the expense of the whole world?

They are nothing more than a pack of aoles, the world has enough economic instability without them purposely playing political games to score dumb points, all they are doing is make everyone dislike them more.

Obama campaigned on his health care program and was voted back in partly because of what he campaigned on , how come these republicans think they can call the shots.

By the way I am not an Obama fan but think less of the repub's for acting like dicks.

Japan will suffer if the US doesn't pay debts because we get lots of money from the US as payment for US government debt they owe us.

"How much spending should be cut and how fast? And what should be cut?"

All foreign aid, immediately.

If government spending is needed to keep an economy afloat, then the government is too big and the economy is a shambles. They should shut down the rest of the government, let the chips fall where they may, and rebuild without the parasites in DC sucking the life out of the country. Of course, that won't happened. Americans are too well brainwashed, and think the government is there to help them.

"So we must first cut spending on our own citizens' welfare and defense before cutting spending on people in other countries."

A Republican worried about the welfare of US citizens ? That kinda goes against the whole reason the tea party fabricated this stunt doesn't it?

How do you go from being a relentless advocate of invading foreign countries and installing freedom and democracies to howling about cutting foreign aid?

The Tea Party radicals would be an interesting mental health study themselves were their actions not effing up everyone else's lives....

US in decline. Will the breakup be pretty or ugly or very ugly or very very ugly?

This could lead to the collapse of theUS dollar currency system and force everyone to start over. Maybe back to a Gold backed currency system to put a lid on borrowing and keep balance in check.

When the can( federal debt ) gets kicked down the road for decades and allowed to metastasize to such obscene dimensions, there comes a time when you run out of road.

Scaling back real spending is very long overdue.

gokai_wo_maneku Japan will suffer if the US doesn't pay debts because we get lots of money from the US as payment for US government debt they owe us.

Sorry you are tooo optimistic in such dramatic situation....

US went bankrupt

It is no way back ...

Japan and other US allies will suffer greatly....

The PAX Americana is over

Forget about US debts.....

Just forget it

To the thumbs-downers to cutting foreign aid, you must not have noticed that the U.S. government is in debt up to its ears.

gcbel To the thumbs-downers to cutting foreign aid, you must not have noticed that the U.S. government is in debt up to its ears. You said cutting ALL foreign Aid, IMMEDIATELY.

Even Immediatly is tooo late in this situation

The United States had to reset the budget and the entire state in year 1991 when USSR has collapsed

Now is tooo late

I'm not up on just how the political world works but as a rule if you are struggling with your bills you do not put yourself farther in debt. That is not a cure it is more like suicide.....it has already been said that America will never be able to pay of its debt. So what is the answer........add more to it?

When Andrew Jackson was President he able to to make America debt free . When Jackson took office, the national debt was about $58 million. Six years later, it was all gone. Paid off. And the government was actually running a surplus, taking in more money than it was spending. In Jackson's mind, debt was "a moral failing,".

"If you want to reform spending you have to deal with the two major expenses the US has: entitlements (aka social security and Medicare/caid) and defense spending. After that, if you still want to cut foreign aid, be my guest"

I see. So we must first cut spending on our own citizens' welfare and defense before cutting spending on people in other countries. You're right, what was I thinking, lol.

"Fine. You want to cut foreign aid. Got it. Check.

Now what?"

OK, that frees up around $56 billion, that's a good start, now let's take aim at spending on the illegal immigrants...

SuperLib, Default will not happen. if anyone listens to congress that was made clear. increasing debt ceiling is increasing spending. I don't want that!

Referring to the republican comment, I am labeled by democrats as republican. I am not. Over 25 years third party. To me the faces change in the White House but its always more of the same. Dems/Repubs make little difference.

USA needs jobs. Real living wage jobs. McDonald's and Walmart jobs are mostly for young adults, part time for adults, and retirees. We need family sustaining jobs. Non-union good paying production and service jobs.

OH I'm so scared!!! This is such a non-event. 85% of the US Gov. is operating.

Obama continually wants to keep piling debt on the heads of the American people by raising 'the debt ceiling' -where will it stop? Until the US dollar looses all cred? How much 'government' do the people of the US need?

The US needs to shutdown even more of its bloated money-sucking civil service to actually relieve the people of the US of their debt

While this is taking place end the private Federal Reserve that sucks the lifeblood of the US citizens too.

JeffLee

The US can easily pay its debts because its debts are denominated in dollars, which the US has a monopoly to issue

Inner debts also ?

It will be real funny !

Hyperinflation in the US ....