Fury among aid groups as U.S. approves cluster bombs for Ukraine

I don't think aid groups have to worry about protecting a country from annihilation.

You may not have noticed by cluster bombs are already being used in Ukraine - by the Russians. Ukraine will look to use these munitions to clear minefields - areas already dangerous to go into.

To all who oppose Ukraine using cluster ammunition against those Russian invaders:

Russia has been and still is using them in Ukraine (video evidence shows it).

Also remember that this will give Ukraine better chances to destroy Russian hard- (and soft-) -ware, thus ending this insane aggressor's war faster.

Ukraine prevails!

Banned by most countries and the warmongering US wants to send to another country, defies belief and against their humanitarian ideals which are rubbish anyway as they don’t have any. It’s dog eat dog in the US and this war is proving a marvellous money spinner for the usual culprits.

Last two days we have Zelensky bawling on CNN that his offensive has failed because of the lack of help from abroad, erm how much has been spent and wasted, much better spent on helping the vulnerable in their own countries instead of stoking the fire in this fruitless localised squabble.

Wont change anytime soon when most people just believe what they want to believe.

falseflagsteveToday 06:51 am JST

Banned by most countries and the warmongering US wants to send to another country, defies belief and against their humanitarian ideals which are rubbish anyway as they don’t have any.

Every time we are reminded of US hypocrisy, we are also reminded that you have to have principles to violate them. I think Wagner shows what the Russian principles are.

American weapons sending invading Russian solders home in body bags, all while I watch from my couch.

4.5 stars, would recommend.

How are they not surprised? The US is seen by many as the biggest supporter of terrorism and is even considered to have a terrorist organization itself (CIA) that interferes in other elections, instigates coups, and warcrimes over the past 70 years.

Thuban: Essentially the same as machine gunning absolutely every person you see in the hope that they might be an enemy soldier with zero regard for the possibility of hitting a civilian.

What if everyone you see is an invading Russian?

BOOM!

ok1517

Today 06:47 am JST

To all who oppose Ukraine using cluster ammunition against those Russian invaders:

> Russia has been and still is using them in Ukraine

So if the bad guy is doing it, the good guy should stoop to that level too? If the bad guy is torturing POWs, should the good guys do that too?

When the Secretary of Defense is a former army general you get stupid policy like this.

I guess the American taxpayers will be paying to clean up unexploded cluster bomb ordinance too when the war is over.

Something tells me that in the recent past wars in which the US was involved and the US used cluster bombs, the people on the political left ranted about how bad the US was/is for using such devilish weaponry. But now under this current so-called administration they are cheering this full on.

deanzaZZRToday 07:11 am JST

When the Secretary of Defense is a former army general you get stupid policy like this.

What would be stupid is not exacting the highest price from Russia for their criminality.

I guess the American taxpayers will be paying to clean up unexploded cluster bomb ordinance too when the war is over.

Will pale in comparison to what Russia owes to rebuild Ukraine.

Something tells me that in the recent past wars in which the US was involved and the US used cluster bombs, the people on the political left ranted about how bad the US was/is for using such devilish weaponry. But now under this current so-called administration they are cheering this full on.

Bingo!

桜川雪Today 07:09 am JST

So if the bad guy is doing it, the good guy should stoop to that level too? If the bad guy is torturing POWs, should the good guys do that too?

I'm glad you have such a high expectation of Ukrainian victory but the rest of us want to make sure the job is done.

ThubanToday 07:02 am JST

These are indiscriminate weapons.

Essentially the same as machine gunning absolutely every person you see in the hope that they might be an enemy soldier with zero regard for the possibility of hitting a civilian.

These bomblets end up in parks, in trees, in gardens, in playgrounds and lay dormant until and unsuspecting child, landscape worker or random person stumbles on them.

You'd have to be able to tell them apart from the mines Russia has already littered over southern Ukraine to assign blame.

The Neocons love Ukraine so much they've sent them depleted uranium weapons and now cluster bombs. In a few years it'll be Fallujah 2.0 over there, except the poor Ukrainian children born with horrific birth defects will have the added joy of possibly having their legs blown off every time they walk through a field.

Still, as long as the US munitions makers can show a profit, who cares?

桜川雪

... agreed.

Question at the same time: what would your recommendations look like?

The US is running out of artillery shells and will provide Ukraine for the time being with cluster ammunition.

I also hope that this will not be an "ongoing affair"!

What other options are there? Go to PUTAin and ask him to please stop using that kind of ammo?

Well, then we could also ask him to please leave Ukraine, all occupied areas included, present himself to DeHague, pay war reparations, and so on. Good luck with that.

bass4funkToday 07:14 am JST

Bingo!

The people that want to see America defeated should really be quiet while the adults are taking care of business.

Thuban Today 07:25 am JST

You'd have to be able to tell them apart from the mines Russia has already littered over southern Ukraine to assign blame.

Anti tank mines don't go off when children step on them.

Okay. What about the anti-personnel mines?

And anyways, both sides keep detailed maps of the mines their armies have laid so they can be removed after the war ends.

Right, I'm sure the Russian notes are thorough /s

None of the parties involved has signed any anti-cluster bomb treaty. Russia has been using them on Ukrainian soldiers, inside Ukraine.

The most important part however has been (deliberately?) left out.

Ukraine has repeatedly stated that they want to open up the outer cases for the individual bomblets to drop singly from drones. Without this stated purpose, the article appears inflammatory and designed to provoke indignation.

Thuban: Totally indiscriminat

Just to he clear, you were the guy praising the formation of a Putin mercenary army that can invade and kill with impunity from Belarus, right? 'Cause seems odd that you suddenly care about the horrors of war for 10 minutes.

The bombs will be used to kill invading Russians. Great day for America and our allies!

The people that want to see America defeated should really be quiet while the adults are taking care of business.

A lot of Americans think that people want America to be defeated, when most of us want America to smarten up and quit being so stupid.

A defeated America would be scary - what happens to all that military?

The Neocons love Ukraine so much they've sent them depleted uranium weapons and now cluster bombs. 

Let's not pretend tankies care about the average Ukrainian now.

Still, as long as the US munitions makers can show a profit, who cares?

Too bad Imperialist Russia chose to invade, huh?

The right wingers are very, very angry that Ukraine dared to fight back with American weapons, and not win instantly. They appear to think that when Russia unilaterally decided to invade Ukraine, and Ukraine had to decide to accept American help and fight, or lay down and be invaded, murdered, losing your nation, culture and identity, that the Ukrainians should have chosen the latter.

Anyone who is angry about that is a complete and utter loser who is wasting oxygen by existing amongst us. Go away and grow some plants to make up for your uselessness.

I would personally use any weapon available, legal or illegal, to defend my family and my home. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

also, these aren’t illegal for the US, Ukraine, or even Russia.

Lots of commentary here by these who see things in left a md right who knows absolutely nothing about what’s going on and what the ‘believe’ is based upon what their fellow believers do.

Its a weird world where we hold some up to higher standards but only when we feel like. The same happened during Covid and the original narrative was forgotten or changed as it is with this beastly conflict that some seem to delight in.

Its a weird world where we hold some up to higher standards but only when we feel like.

No. It's a weird world where one equates a country defending itself from invasion to the country doing the invasion. It's a pathetic take.

Cards

Didn’t equate anything, show where I did please. Your bias is showing and you don’t even realise it.

The Russians have used cluster bombs.

also, these aren’t illegal for the US, Ukraine, or even Russia.

The Ukrainian military has been using cluster bombs against Ukrainian citizens since 2014.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

tankies

There's that word again! I looked it up on the internet; apparently it means, "a pejorative used against anyone with the temerity to criticise the Washington Neo-con cabal's endless for-profit wars around the world". Phew, what a shocker! That's about 90% of the world's population!

And there I was thinking it meant children of all ages who enjoyed Thomas the Tank Engine books and television shows, or perhaps even lovers of tropical fish. Guppies, and fish like that.

Disgusting.

Boy, if you think that's disgusting you'd be shocked to learn that people are "neutral" on the war crimes being committed by Russia in Ukraine right now. Now that's "disgusting."

If Russia never invaded U{Ukraine, we wouldn't have this issue, would we?

The Ukrainians are going to use the cluster bombs only against Russian soldiers. Very different from how the Russians use them to kill Ukraine’s civilians. If it works at terrifying, demoralizing and driving the Russians out of Ukraine, so much the better.

Because of all the media propaganda and disinformation its extremely difficult to take sides.

Ignorance is a choice. There is a solution. Learn to spot lies.

What ol' Jack Burton always says

No ! neutrality is neutrality.

I want the war to end and the bloodshed to stop .

However iam neutral.

Because of all the media propaganda and disinformation its extremely difficult to take sides.

There were people in the US during WWII who were saying that Hitler wasn't so bad. They ended up on the wrong side of history.

You'd think that those complaining about the US providing expensive weapons to Ukraine would rejoice that now we can send them some for basically no cost. But then the argument changes, of course.

These weapons will be used because they’re very effective against entrenched troops.

I wish they weren’t necessary. I also wish the Russians had stayed on their side of the border, not murdered people in the streets, bombed civilians, etc., etc., etc.,

Ukraine is going to win this war and the Russians are going to suffer the wrath of these weapons because they wouldn’t go home.

These things kill and maim people long after any war finishes, particularly kids playing. Cluster bombs are a crime against humanity. Do this and you are as bad as Russia. My support vanishes.

Target Putin, Putin's cronies and Russian MPs - the people responsible for the war, not civilians, indiscriminately.

War should not be a game played by politicians against ordinary people.

Do this and you are as bad as Russia. My support vanishes.

Yeah, not so much.

GBR48: Do this and you are as bad as Russia.

Oh I think you'll be OK with Russia.

What other options are there? 

Peace!

Rubblize it; the American motto.

This must be the ugliest and most ignorant decision by the Biden administartion, and we shall regret it for a very long time to come.

MarkToday 10:22 am JST

This must be the ugliest and most ignorant decision by the Biden administartion, and we shall regret it for a very long time to come.

Not as much as losing the war. War has a way of focusing the mind, which is why we need to be vary careful what treaties we sign up for to please the naive.

Cluster bombs are suddenly loved like chocolate bon bons. Thus the horror of these evil bombs begins. Where it will end will be thousands of innocent civilian casualties,

It is a tragedy that Ukraine needs to use cluster munitions to break through the Russian defence lines. It appears they will be used in artillery shells. Ukraine can't break through the defence lines at he moment with traditional shells. In the short term cluster munitions will speed up the counteroffensive and save Ukrainian lives. In the long term of course there is the danger of unexploded bomblets harming civilians. It is a difficult choice. In the current situation this war is going to drag on for ever with all the ramifications it is causing in Ukraine and around the world. Bringing a quicker stop to this war will ultimately save more lives in the long run.... but at what cost? Surely there must be other alternatives?

Wrong decision.

It may sound gruesome to say this, but if the Russians can use these lethal weapons to attack and invade Ukraine, shouldn’t Ukraine be allowed to use them for defending and inflicting harm against the invaders?

It is a tragedy that Ukraine needs to use cluster munitions to break through the Russian defence lines.

You're right, It really is. These weapons are as crude as they are destructive. The offensive is obviously struggling to break the Russian defenses, so it's going to get a whole lot more violent it seems.

Surely there must be other alternatives?

It's hard to see any future for peace unless the Russians are pushed out of the Donbas and Crimea is threatened, or Ukraine is no longer able to do mount a defense. Both sides are nowhere near that yet.

Mark

This must be the ugliest and most ignorant decision by the Biden administartion, and we shall regret it for a very long time to come.

It's a well measured move. Russia are already using these bombs in Ukraine with a 40% dud rate.

The cluster bombs from the US have less than 2.5% dud rate and will not be used in civilian areas.

No, they shouldn’t

The reason…

History will judge and if both sides resort to similar atrocities then both will be judged to be equally culpable for them and the result is that both will lose the moral blame game…

Of course all the usual posters are in full support of The USA and Ukraine doing something that is obviously wrong.

nothing wrong can ever be done (no matter what they actually do) by their chosen side in this.

cause “reasons”.

Blacklabel

Of course all the usual posters are in full support of The USA and Ukraine doing something that is obviously wrong.

It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's a measured move with the admission that there could be some negative consequences with it. That's why their use will be in trenches and minefields and not in civilian areas. Ultimately, is is envisioned that it will have a net positive effect.

BTW Russia has been using cluster bombs in Ukraine. What's your opinion on that?

It's not a matter of right or wrong.

Well that’s dangerous. once you ignore right or wrong you follow the most monstrous dictators and regimes in history into some really heinous things.

BTW Russia has been using cluster bombs in Ukraine. What's your opinion on that?

it’s wrong.