G-20 refuses to back U.S. push on China's currency

The dispute is threatening to resurrect destructive protectionist policies like those that worsened the Great Depression in the 1930s. The biggest fear is that trade barriers will send the global economy back into recession

very unlikely. Diminishing influence of Developed Countries should not be that much of a concern when emerging markets are almost developed and taking care of global economy...What's at stake? a false pride !

A little backbone to take a public position against China would be helpful.

China's Yen and USA's greenback. Common China and USA,practise policies of unity,tolerance and love when it comes to trading of goods and services.

China and USA trade, both doing well and will do even more well in future,if hurdles are cleared. China needs to buy more US products,to balance trade.

May be,they should buy more US food products,US wheat,fruits,planes,cars,movies,music,PCs and Softwares.

This is can only be done via higher quality and better prices for US goodies in China.

Another factor,to consider is relations between China citizens and US citizens,should be increased via more People to People contact,for more easy trade between citizens of both sides.

There will be hurdles to overcome,nothing which can't be overcome by more work by both sides,to overcome hurdles.

Unfortunately, Americans prefer to buy foreign products like every other nation in this world. Demand for American products is just really low, but most traditional American firms are afraid to change their business models and cater to what consumers want. To put it simply, nobody wants to buy old school stuff. Maybe they should put more into researching what consumers want than forcing other countries to change their currency.

"To put it simply, nobody wants to buy old school stuff"

Contrary to what you believe, many US exports are technologically competititive, and yes sometimes even superior, one reason why China does all it can to protect it's own markets from competition.

ok, high tech gadgets from the U.S. are competitive, but these products are assembled in China and the hardware is made in Korea and Japan. Other than that, American laptops are very loud compared to Japanese laptops. Not even Americans like loud laptops.

I don't think China protects its market, as much as the U.S. government is telling its people. China has many Chinese consumers who choose to buy American cars, but in the long run they will find out those cars can't compete with Japanese cars. Even Americans would rather buy Japanese and foreign cars over American. Lately, American cars have seen improvement. What American products are popular in Europe?

If Europeans don't want to buy American made products, what makes you think people elsewhere would want to buy American products, just because its American?

I meant to say, if Europeans , America's allies, don't want to buy American made products, .......

President Obama is an economic imbecile. He is uniting the world against America and is lending credance to China's mercantilist trade policies. The US has the worlds highest corporate tax rate - therefore, the US is not competitive with nations that already have a labor cost advantage given the dominance of unions in the US manufacturing sector. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that US economic policy is a huge hinderance to American industry. Obama cannot see past his narrow liberal ideology which sees American business as somehow evil. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate is through he roof, the yearly budget deficit is terrifyingly high, and the ruling Democrats haven't a clue that their policies are darkening America's future. Everyone can see that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid don't know what they are doing. Of course the world isn't going to back their economic policies.

Well stated, Wolfpack, but once U.S. Republicans take over the Office, the war machine will start get again and Americans will have to owe another trillion dollars for another invasion, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia; which are all runners up. Who will buy up America's debt then? I don't think it will be the Europeans given their Euro zone currency dilemma.

Wolfpack -"President Obama is an economic imbecile."

Why do you blame Obama? America is starting to realize that the process of globalization championed by bush is coming back to bite it - and Americans - in the arse.

Bush and Obama tried/are trying to take the easy way to economic growth - trying to get trading partners to change their ways instead of fundamentally changing ways Americans do business and building more competitive products.

bush totally ignored this by launching 2 wars. Obama is at least working to build a completely new - green - industry to try to get Americans ahead of the curve in that area, but the Dems are being held back by a GOP and TP that seems hellbent on taking America back to the 1800s.

Wolfpack - "Meanwhile, the unemployment rate is through he roof, the yearly budget deficit is terrifyingly high, and the ruling Democrats haven't a clue that their policies are darkening America's future. Everyone can see that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid don't know what they are doing."

LOL! Neither does the other side thast created te mess for the Democrats in the first place, probably the same side that Wolfpack supports. .

China usually purchases greater amounts of US$ than the prevoius year. Not his time - Chinese purchases of US$ hve dropped significantly thisa year as they diversify their holdings into minerals nad metals.

Look out for interest rate rises in the States as USGov. has to raise rates to entice more foreigners to buy its worthless greenbacks.

We are watching the decline of the American Empire, much to the anger and frustration of the American Right who will point the finger of blame at everyone but themselves.

We hear it all the time from thje Right - America's debt problems are all China's fault, they need to let their currency rise, they need to buy more American products, ... yawn.....

HOW ABOUT BUILDING MORE PRODUCTS THAT FOREIGNERS WANT TO BUY?

Not to forget, limited fossil fuel deposits which will only lead to increasing fuel prices.

So what do we do with China next?

" But let's face it, globalization is a much bigger process than the activities of all the players combined."

And yet people like Wolfpack blame everything in the world on Obama, and you can only comment on Sushi's post. Interesting.

MeanRingo hits the nail on the head: no one wants to put up with the BS of the US anymore, and this meeting, which was pretty much useless, reflects that. The US system is completely broken, and instead of trying to deal with it they want OTHERS to fix it for them so they can ride it out for a few more years.

China should raise the value of their currency for a few Americans who refuse to take pay cuts can keep their jobs? The idea that it benefits China is absolute bull.

smithinjapan':

"The US system is completely broken, and instead of trying to deal with it they want OTHERS to fix it for them so they can ride it out for a few more years."

And just who is "they" ?

Your hero Obama and his gang at the Fed.

agree with meanringo the US decline has been in progress for 10-15yrs now & I predict it will start picking up steam. And any civil war this time wont be north-south it will be more like cross street/neighbourhood type mayhem that wud be pretty much impossible to stop once started.

Its clear to me that captilism got high jacked about 20-25yrs ago by wall street type that didnt do anything productive, just shuffle $$$ around to whatever they see/think is the next big thing, this & extravagant pay high up suits haul in by bleeding the masses(you know its funny they never think its wrong to suck the $$$$ from the masses into their pockets but they sure get ticked when others talk of the need for the $$$ to be pushed back some) has distorted capitalism to its current sick sick self.

Looks like Jpn, US & Europe are starting to head from developed countries back to developing countries. Perhaps the filthy rich are trying to pull off a system where countries yo-yo from developed-undeveloped-developed-undeveloped & if war happens to break out aw well they can make $$$ of that as well........

10yrs ago I wud have said drunk when I wrote the above bit but now its looking more & more plausible imo.

Actually, if China increases the value of their currency, American business owners will find cheap labor elsewhere. Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, etc.... Americans will never see manufacturing jobs ever again.

So you who would rather pay attention to 10 highly educated scholars or a thousand idiots? Keep in mind the rest of the world consists mostly of tribal and nationalistic idiots.

Takshi89 you do realize that the US is the worlds largest manufacturer, 19% of the worlds goods are made in the US.

For example US high technology generally has legal restrictions from being exported because they don't want certain countries, China, to get their hands on them in mass quantities, yes they are generally assembled in China and a lot of the hardware is made in Taiwan and Korea but the US also has its own fabs as well.

I'm actually kind of glad nothing came of this APEC meeting. They are usually little more than talkfests that produce pre-written non-binding communiques. At least now, countries kmow precisely where others stand and what the key issues are that need to be overcome. To make these talkfests worthwhile, participants should at least agree thatany agreement is binding.

WOW!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

"HOW ABOUT BUILDING MORE PRODUCTS THAT FOREIGNERS WANT TO BUY?"

If sushisake3 knew anything about the US and its economy s/he would have written

how about the Obama administration and the Democrat Party let Americans be Americans. Let them create. Let them produce. Unleash the entrepreneurial genius. Get government out of the effin way.

Curious... G20 talking about the Chinese currency but they don't do it about the WON; South Korea is playing with its currency since years and years ago and nobody does/says anything... Why not talking about the taxes (to import products) of South Korea... Always China and Japan but why not showing what is South Korea doing.

but, but, but ..... Liberals all lined up falling over themselves saying all the nations would love us again after the first (half) black person became U.S. president!! Some even admitted they get "excited" when Obama speaks!!

Liberals ..... wha' happened?!?!?!!!!

RR

MisterCreosote: "And just who is "they" ?"

I know it must be like a riddle for you, but 'they' is the pronoun I chose to represent the American people as a whole, and yes, including the current Administration. Though as has been pointed out, this is not something that began on Obama's watch -- it's been going down for a while now (and 'it', in case that's another toughy for you, means the system).

The G-20’s failure to adopt the U.S. stand has underlined Washington’s reduced influence on the international stage, especially on economic matters. In another setback, Obama also failed to conclude a free trade agreement this week with South Korea

Obama projects weakness. But I am sure if asked, the respective leaders of the G20 and their entourages would say they "like" him and that "he is a nice person."

I'll say it again - Americans need to start building products that people want to buy.

World’s richest country the USA finished third in exporting last year. America shipped $1.287 trillion worth of goods around the globe. Number 1 export civilian aircraft. Number 2 Semiconductors, Number 3 Passenger cars, Number 4 Pharmaceutical preparations/ Medicinal equipment.

Watch number 3 go totally into the tank after the Govt Bail-out (Chevy Volt) and watch number 4 be destroyed after Obama-care gets up and running. We do make the things the world wants to buy to bad Obama and the Democrats seem intent on killing those very things through Government interference and reckless policies that kill jobs and growth.

Oh noes. Even The New York Times is not impressed

"Traveling in Asia, Obama’s Glow Dims"

sailwind good post.

The G-20’s failure to adopt the U.S. stand has underlined Washington’s reduced influence on the international stage, especially on economic matters. In another setback, Obama also failed to conclude a free trade agreement this week with South Korea.

Irony upon irony: Korea is a little too green for Obama and the Democrat Party, which is like, all about helping America transition to a green economy and making our recently nationalized car companies, hostage to the auto unions, competitive again. Obama comes back from Korea empty-handed...

"...U.S. automakers, their unions, and their allies in government — including most Democrats and Barack Obama — think Korea’s fuel-economy and environmental standards are too high. They are arguing that these standards act as a non-tariff barrier to cars and trucks made in U.S. factories, because, gosh darn it, we just don’t make cars and trucks that clean and green over here."

[National Review]

World’s richest country the USA finished third in exporting last year

Ambiguous. Export volume? Efficiency? Profit margin?

Richest country? Ambiguous again. Richest for who? Percentage of population? Too many questions. Too few answers.

What are you guys talking about? American exports have nearly doubled in just a few years. Obviously Americans have suddenly started building products that people want....almost overnight. When exports were low it's because the quality was bad, like my bro Takshi said. But now that exports are booming it must mean quality is going through the roof! Amazing!

Obviously not enough. History's biggest economy is crippled, sinking into the quagmire courtesy of people like Sarge, RomeoRamen, Sailwind and MisterC who continue to show how much they 'love' America by buying up big on Chinese products.

Number 1 export civilian aircraft. Number 2 Semiconductors, Number 3 Passenger cars, Number 4 Pharmaceutical preparations/ Medicinal equipment. Watch number 3 go totally into the tank after the Govt Bail-out...

Very strange analysis. Considering that Number 1 has been heavily subsidized by the US government for years. Like the three auto companies, there were once three US passenger aircraft makers. Lockheed sold off that division to McDonnell-Douglas, which was then merged into Boeing. All three were extremely dependent on US government contracts to supplement their business.

Likewise, numbers 2 and 4. The semiconductor and medical industries have benefited from billions of federal dollars over the years in basic research.

Obama's economic view has been challenged domestically, and is now challenged internationally.

Is a trend developing?

RR

Takshi89:

Well stated, Wolfpack, but once U.S. Republicans take over the Office, the war machine will start get again and Americans will have to owe another trillion dollars for another invasion, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia; which are all runners up. Who will buy up America's debt then? I don't think it will be the Europeans given their Euro zone currency dilemma.

Except that Democrats are currently in total charge in Washington and that hasn't slowed down the "war machine" as you call it at all. There are just as many American soldiers fighting in the middle east now as when Bush was in office. Guantonamo Bay is still in business.

Obama will average over a trillion dollars in 'annual' budget deficits for each of his four years in office - three times more than Bush spent in eight years while contending with two wars, 9/11 and the resulting economic crisis, the Katrina mess, and Barney Frank's housing bust. Yes, the economy was in shambles when he took office but Bush took a huge chunk of the debt for the crisis on his balance sheet for TARP. Obama's stimulus program has been a bust. Other nations have been seeking to fix their debt problems while Obama has ignored them and kept spending - with the Fed printing money like a banana republic.

Who will buy America's debt in the future? That's a good question... at some point, other nations and investors will find that the devalued dollar isn't much of an investment. And that - as Obama's mentor Jerimiah Wright once said - is when the chickens will come home to roost. Scary times...

SushiSake3:

Why do you blame Obama? America is starting to realize that the process of globalization championed by bush is coming back to bite it - and Americans - in the arse.

You might want to get a bigger picture of economic history than just the eight years that GW Bush was president of America. Globlization has been going on in full force since the end of World War II. The US was just the first one at the party as it was really the only advanced industrial nation relatively untouched by the devastation of the war. Other nations have been joining the party ever since and wealth and prosperity has spread like in no other time in human history. The latest entries to come on board in a big way are India and China. Hindering world trade just makes economic conditions for people worse - study the Great Depression for a case study of this fact.

Meanwhile, President Obama is traveling overseas trying to make deals with India and other countries just as Bush tried to do. This is bi-partisan to a certain extent. However, along with make a pitiful 10 billion deal in India, Obama is peddling economic policies that have been rejected outright the the rest of the world. He is an amateur playing in the big leagues. Socialist economic theory always runs up against reality - the Chinese will tell you that.

Interest rates and taxes are going to have to go up as Wolfpack, Sarge, RomeoRamen and MisterC's irresponsible votes for bush continue to cause havoc. No conservative has yet answered my question: would Obama and the Dems have had to spend up big on the bailouts if bush and the GOP done a half good job of managing the economy? Of course, the answer is no. And let's face it - Obama had no choice but to spend up big on the bailouts. Doing nothing - as many conservatives on JT seem to think would have been a better idea - would have landed the economy in an even bigger hole than it's in now. And yet we'll still hear conservatives deny they are to blame.

smithinjapan: " But let's face it, globalization is a much bigger process than the activities of all the players combined." And yet people like Wolfpack blame everything in the world on Obama, and you can only comment on Sushi's post. Interesting.

Actually, I agree with you to certain extent. However, my comments were related to the current story and the G-20's reaction to Obama's policy initiatives. Republican's share plenty of blame as well. America needs to get it's own fiscal and economic house in order first - or at least going in the right direction - before other nations will take it seriously. The only way to do that is to make radical changes much like the British are attempting to do now.

World leaders message to Obama was: "Stop spending like a drunken sailor!" It's the same message the U.S. voters just sent to him earlier this month.

Heh, Obama probably thinks it's "a communication problem" that the world leaders aren't smart enough to understand his policies, either.

RR

WHY oh why doesn't the US learn to pay NOW for its goods & services from the rest of the world instead of LATER?? This is the main problem that the other G-20 countries don't shout loud enough about. Are they afraid of insulting Americans? The truth hurts: Stop running up huge deficits and holding countries like Japan and China hostage with a huge pile of paper IOUs.

On the other hand, the G-20 has been grossly IRRESPONSIBLE in letting the US get away with this financial suicide over the past 20 or 30 years. If a corporation were to take on such proportional debt, the banks would call in their loans and/or would NOT lend it any more money UNTIL it paid down a good chunk of its debt. So WHY does the US get away with this behaviour? If that were Argentina, Iceland, or Greece, all hell would break loose a LONG time ago. Again, I blame the US "lap dog" media for not giving their audience the full scoop. Then again, corporations own the media.

According to the investment guru, Jim Rogers, the US became a net debtor nation around 1988 and racks up $1 Trillion of debt every 15 months (or something like that). Peek YouTube to see tons of Jim Rogers interviews. The dude is a genius and he keeps saying the US dollar and it's economy are not fundamentally sound.

Did anyone else notice Wolfpack convenientely forgot to mention the GOP's key responsibility in the economic basketcase they handed Obama that left him no choice but to spend up big and create the very deficit that Wolfpack's now complaining about? Wolfpack shows a scary lack of attention to facts...

World leaders message to Obama was: "Stop spending like a drunken sailor!"

And drunken sailors have cautioned him against spending like Republicans.

sushisake3:

No conservative has yet answered my question: would Obama and the Dems have had to spend up big on the bailouts if bush and the GOP done a half good job of managing the economy?

I don't believe Bush purposely caused the housing bust which is at the root of the economic disaster that occurred in 2008 and that led to TARP and Obama's huge annual spending deficits since he has been in office. However, he and the Dems in Congress failed to prevent during times when both parties were in charge in the legislature. They are both culpable.

This issue has it's roots going back to Carter and was boosted during the tech bubble boom times during the Clinton years (his aide Harold Raines made big money working for Fannie as an executive after leaving public service). Fannie and Freddie needed reform but Bush backed down in the face of attacks from Dems - most notably Barney Frank and his allies (including support from then Senator Obama). Do you remember Franks' bold statement that Fannie and Freddie were not in trouble just a few years before the banks starting failing? The Bush administration knew there was a problem and proposed changes but failed to push them through the legislative process. Congress was giving away money for mortgages that everyone with a modicum of economic sense knew were bad investments. This is a perfect example of how government intervention - in the name of social equity - caused a disaster which led to even more misery for those it was intended to help. Frank made the Bush Administration out to be terrible people who wanted to deny poor and mostly minority people the pride of homeownership. Bush and his administration utterly failed to make the argument that encouraging so many bad loans was a disaster in the making.

It's no wonder that no country will cooperate with the US at this point in time. Over the past two years, President Obama has shown the world that he is economically clueless. Obama is such a liberal ideologe that no other nation agrees with his economic thinking and will not accept his economic policies as being the right ones going forward.

We are all in the same boat together. We can talk real fancy, but at the end of the day, not only the G20 countries but most of the modern world needs goods and services that on one nation, not the USA, not China, are incapable of providing. Try to get China to survive with out all the raw materials it has to buy from Latin America, Africa and other Asian countries, impossible. Try to let the USA survive with out all the oil from the Middle East, Venezuela etc..and the economy will be on it's knees in a few weeks.

One of the problems I think is that the USA as a whole has not realised that their significance and power has diminished globally. Both military, economic and in a few other areas.

Current ruling simply shows that other countries are starting to to hetch their bets.

As Elbudamexicano said a new stage has been enterd where new deals, etc need to be forged to allow all parties to move forward.

Many countries are aware of those trends as we been part of them for centuries and millenia, few don't see it yet.

Important point missed from the G20: US will go ahead with QE despite the fact that it is seriously upsetting alot of countries. The world is definitely changing but the US isn't sitting still....