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George Floyd was infected with COVID-19, autopsy reveals

85 Comments

George Floyd, whose fatal encounter with Minneapolis police stirred a global outcry over racial bias by U.S. law enforcement, tested positive for the coronavirus, his autopsy showed, but the infection was not listed as a factor in his death.

The official cause of death, according to the full 20-page report made public on Wednesday by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, was cardiopulmonary arrest while Floyd was being restrained by police taking him into custody on May 25.

The coroner ruled the manner of death to be a homicide. Four police officers since fired from their jobs for their role in the incident, which was captured on a bystander's cellphone video, are being held on criminal charges, one of them accused of murder.

The video showed that officer using his knee to press Floyd's neck into the street for nearly nine minutes while the 46-year-old victim gasped for air and repeatedly groaned,"please, I can't breathe." Floyd was pronounced dead at a hospital a short time later.

The video immediately went viral on the internet, igniting nine days of nationwide protest and civil strife. Demonstrators have also taken to the streets overseas, from Germany to New Zealand.

The autopsy, in listing cardiopulmonary arrest as the cause of Floyd's death, also cited "complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."

The report listed several additional factors as "significant conditions" contributing to Floyd's death, including heart disease, high blood pressure and intoxication from the powerful opioid fentanyl, as well as recent methamphetamine use.

The report further noted that a nasal swab sample collected from Floyd's body came back positive for COVID-19, and that Floyd had also tested positive on April 3, nearly eight weeks before his death.

The county's chief medical examiner, Dr. Andrew Baker, concluded that the post mortem test result "most likely reflects asymptomatic but persistent ... positivity from previous infection." There was no indication in the autopsy report that coronavirus played any role in Floyd's death.

Dr. Michael Baden, one of two medical examiners who conducted a private autopsy for Floyd's family, told the New York Times that county officials never told him, or the funeral director, that Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2020.

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

85 Comments

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So are the cops to be put is quarantine? His family need to be tested.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

reporting on the drug use is just not necessary. The guy could have been a young olympic athlete in the peak of health, the cop would still have murdered him. Pre-existing conditions really dont come into play here.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

@Mat: Pre-existing conditions really dont come into play here.

The cop murdered George Floyd. The fact that he had other issues including covid are only factors may have contributed to his ability to survive being choked. No need to read anything nefarious into that.

What bothers me more is that the government makes public the medical history of people without consideration of the deceased and their families privacy.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

So are the cops to be put is quarantine? His family need to be tested.

Well, social distancing and washing hands and all that are suddenly irrelevant.... it is all A OK if you want to go out in large groups and riot and loot. Where have all the Corona Karens gone?

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Police thuggery is an issue in the US (as is elsewhere). The role of "Police Officer" needs to be taken more Seriously - though I suspect short-cuts are being taken due to demand.

Clearly, the group of "Officers" involved in the "George Floyd" incident were all exactly the opposite type People we want patrolling our streets - they themselves in their actions, wrongly shamed the whole of the Police force in an instant. They appeared to operate like their own little "Gang" of enforcers, doing as they pleased - for whatever end. Seeking "Justice" in this one case alone - will not fix the problem - it will certainly take a few bad apples off the Policing of the our Streets - but it won't fix the problem - as time and time again, we are seeing.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

US government has to make up an excuse.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Where have all the Corona Karens gone?

This is a case where the same people who a week ago were brow beating the Deplorables about public health turn on a dime and ditch all that for the greater need of fundamentally transforming America. The media is encouraging crowded protests - it’s their Constitutional right. Yet last week they were just condemning the Constitutional right of other people to peacefully assemble at church, other events, and to work. The Lefts’ motivations for this cognitive disconnect is transparent.

-1 ( +11 / -12 )

If he tested positive so many weeks before his death he must have been well over it. They are testing for antibodies not the virus, right? So yeah, it was not a factor in his death. Fact is he would still be alive if not for a murdering cop and his little helpers.

@Wolfpack as much as I agree with you I wish you would at least begin with an aim to not further divide us over such issues. As much as its true we did not need division over people exercising their right to congregate despite Covid 19, we certainly don't need the division now. We need people to reflect on their hypocrisy, not be driven to deny it ever happened or make some sort of crazy, hasty reflexive defense.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Wolfpack:

This is a case where the same people who a week ago were brow beating the Deplorables about public health turn on a dime and ditch all that for the greater need of fundamentally transforming America. The media is encouraging crowded protests - it’s their Constitutional right. Yet last week they were just condemning the Constitutional right of other people to peacefully assemble at church, other events, and to work.

Bingo! If I was not observing this in real life, I would think it is bad fiction.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

So, the official line is that he died of a heart attack ‘caused by the stress of not being able to take a breath’

That makes it clear then...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

COVID-19, heart disease, high blood pressure, why not add high levels of stress too, but all not an assurance of certain death. A maybe one day at best. But a knee to the back of the neck while handcuffed to stop oxygenated blood flow to the brain over an unnecessary amount of time will cause certain death. Trying to taint a helpless murder victim's image, too easy of a target but our eyes are not covered and we can't and don't want to unsee what happened. As some one said it hasn't gotten worst it's just recorded for all to witness.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Cops killed him dont try to make it anything else, he didnt die of corona or drug use or heart condition or none of that, he died because a bunch of cops acting outside of their legal right were exercising their own kind of street justice and murdered him on film, you cannot call it anything else but cop murder we all saw it, and it is not the first time cops have killed white people or black people or hispanic people or asian people, you know something else, the cops commit about as much crime as they can get away with.

They are not the fine up standing members of the community as some would have you believe. Dont be fooled by the badge or the uniform, if you do then you are part of the whole problem the rest of us are facing.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The fact that he had other issues including covid are only factors may have contributed to his ability to survive being choked.

Yes, but my point is, the ability to survive being choked isn't relevant, the murderer would simply have tried harder to achieve his premeditated goal.

All four cops knew the plan, and had their role to play.

If I shoot someone in the head with a shotgun, I don't expect the autopsy to state that the victim had a mild heart condition and that it could be relevant his death.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Sadly, being born with Color ("Black") instantly labels you with the words "Poor" or "Backward" - and generally when Poor, you are associated with the higher likely-hood of committing a Crime - thus perpetuating the ongoing "fear" of Blacks/Colored that others have. (And this goes for everywhere, not just the US - take a look at Australia for example).

This "fear" is I believe, what leads to some, taking actions that are deemed "Racist" - take for example the recent case of a Woman walking her Dog alone, in a Park, off leash, and a Black guy walks up to her and "asks" her to put it on leash.... FEAR !!! - "... you see a Black person walking towards you - and your first thought will be "OMG - they're going to Rob me for my Wallet/Purse - or Rape me or Whatever" - so you go into mental overdrive - everything you do becomes instinctive and potentially irrational... so you call the Police and say things that are way out of proportion since you're really seeking help from a Fear!

And some people - are exploiting this, for their own gains.... either Publicity wise or whatever...

What needs to be done to fix this "Fear" issue. But, it's going to take time.... and we need to recognise that fact!

Two things need to happen :

"Apartide" needs to be called out and fixed in Government controlled matters - Globally.

Racial profiling - yes, it needs to exist, but to identify where resources should be focused to eliminate the need of Racial profiling in the first place! Time limits should be set in order to guage performance.

Education for All - needs to be made mandatory - but not finishing at a certain school-leaver age - when you finish School - if you haven't got a place in higher Ed. then you should have a place somewhere - not just left to your own means without help... set a buffer year between School Leaving and Work - with an "Apprenticeship" where you receive payment from the Government to learn the basics of a Skill allowing you to move forward in life independently - but no mickey taking here - such schemes should fall under the National Security banner, and anyone scamming/miling them should be held up, for high treason and dealt with appropriately.

It needs to start early - with Education from the ground up, It also needs to start with acceptance that we're all people, It needs to be continued irrespective of which Government flavor is in power - therefore it needs to be independent of Government... which means... WE need to sort this out ourselves - irrespective of whom our "leaders" of the day are.

So how to do so ?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Other factors, whoever has some, must be taken into consideration by a police officer or shall be asked to prevent unnecessary harm.

For instance if you say you are deaf, a police officer shall not shoot you because you are not complying on the spot for instance. Think before doing, not otherway around.

When M. Floyd was saying he can't breath, not listening to him is a crime because everyone knows no breathing leads to death.

Ok to shoot someone who is assessed for sure to be violent, but never use unnecessary force. Police or not.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No one seems concerned about the thousands of people who will gather together to attend the FOUR funerals Mr Floyd will have all over the country for like a week straight.

so it doesn’t matter that he tested positive for corona. Every single person will have it within the next 2 weeks now.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

There can only be a single funeral for George Floyd others would be memorials.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

George Floyd Funeral Services to Be Held Over the Next Week in 3 Different States

Services to honor George Floyd will take place in Minnesota, North Carolina, and Texas

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

And yes, his physical body will be transported to all three states for viewings.

https://abc7chicago.com/george-floyd-funeral-plans-when-is-floyds-fountain-of-grace-church-houston-floyds-children/6225347/

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I read George Floyd will be buried in Houston, the city he grew up in. To have three funerals would require transporting his body to each one and then back to Houston for burial. Does not sound realistic. Are there even regulations about a corpse crossing state lines?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Then I think its over the top to have three funerals for George Floyd. He was a victim not a martyr.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

There has also been a “symbolic” funeral already too.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/symbolic-funeral-honors-george-floyd/2282138/

this man didn’t deserve to die at all. but his body also doesn’t deserve to be a political prop for Joe Biden and other Dems.

Nothing like this is happening for the 2 black men killed by the rioters, Mr Dorn and Mr Patterson- why not?)

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Seems the best thing for Floyd would have been to be arrested and put into prison where he would get some health care and have less access to drugs, especially opioids.

Regardless, the cop that murdered him needs to be found guilty of murder. A badge doesn't mean that killing someone over 9 minutes is ok. The other cops also need a trial as accomplices - I'd find them guilty for not taking action after Floyd was cuffed. Juries can ignore the written law and follow the "intent" of the law in their judgements.

Every death while police are involved needs an outside investigation, regardless of the person who died. Homeless, crack addict, lawyer, cop, or other professional shouldn't matter.

So ... governments that encourage people to go back to work while COVID019 cases increase are bad, but protesting is good? Got it. Trying to earn a living is bad. Glad we have that straight. Guess the reason for being stupid matters?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

theFu

Seems the best thing for Floyd would have been to be arrested and put into prison where he would get some health care and have less access to drugs, especially opioids.

So should the other 20 million Americans addicted to opioids also be imprisoned?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

theFu:

Regardless, the cop that murdered him needs to be found guilty of murder. A badge doesn't mean that killing someone over 9 minutes is ok. The other cops also need a trial as accomplices - I'd find them guilty for not taking action after Floyd was cuffed.

I would agree. However, does that mean we can also get justice for Tony Timpa, who was killed in the same way in Dallas? Or does it take riots to get that?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The last criminal conviction for George Floyd was in 2007, 13 years ago.

https://i.redd.it/2sc99kysho151.jpg

There is video of him being arrested outside the store and taken to the cop car. Then the video of the cop with his knee on his neck.

A lot of sick stuff on the "White Pride" website.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Seems the best thing for Floyd would have been to be arrested and put into prison where he would get some health care and have less access to drugs, especially opioids.

Prison care in response to a mental health issue would not have been the best thing.

The best thing would have been for Floyd - if he really was a drug addict and this isn't just the right trying to discredit him - would have been rehab, and a society that treats drug addicts as the lost who need help gettin back, rather than criminals that need punishment.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

What is more relevant is that he worked at the same night club as the police who suffocated him; so these two knew each other and worked together.

Sigh. Your team always thinks they can make conclusions that cannot be logically made.

It's been shown they worked there at the same time. That point cannot logically be used to conclude they knew each other, or that they even worked at the same time as each other. One could have been weekends, one weekdays. Or daytime/nighttime. Or they may have worked together once or twice, but wouldn't be able to recognize each other by face on the street. Or whatever.

All that can be concluded from the fact they worked at a place at the same time, is that they worked at a place at the same time. Unless you have more to show more, there is no more that can be concluded.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

And let's be clear. If this Tony Timpa was murdered in the same manner as Floyd, then system reform that is enacted as a result of protests over Floyd's murder are justice for Timpa as well.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Let's just hope George Floyd's cause of death isn't amended to coronavirus.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yes. And the video in between, which would show the escalation, is missing.

Ahh yes, because if there was a confrontation, it justifies his neck being kneeled on for more than five minutes after he was restrained, and another two minutes after he had stopped breathing.

Because that's good policing. Summary execution on the street when they are incapacitated.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

strangerland:

Ahh yes, because if there was a confrontation, it justifies his neck being kneeled on for more than five minutes after he was restrained,

I did not say that. Stop trying to mindread.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@ Strangerland: And just ensures this will be swept under the rug by the majority again, and more unarmed young black men will continue to be murdered by police in America at an alarming rate.

You mean swept under the rug in the Progressive city of Minneapolis, run by a Progressive mayor, police chief, district attorney, education board, and city council? Under that rug? These riots and protests are not happening in small town conservative America. They are happening in places dominated by the Democrat party for generations. Can’t you even acknowledge there is a problem with what Progressives have created in these cities?

Because your team is annoyed that people dare point out when a black person is murdered by the police, and don't react every time it happens to a white person.

America is supposed to be one team but I suppose if your aim is to fundamentally change America into a new-marxist utopia of identities you need to go to war against the “other”. Both conservatives and Progressives alike agreed that this was a horrible crime. The “other team” is all for prosecuting the people who killed an unarmed American citizen. It is only the Left that is stoking the racial antagonism. Antifa and ALF- both largely young white militant groups - are going into black neighborhoods and literally burning them to the ground. It’s senseless violence whose only goal seems to be anarchy leading to fundamentally unmaking America. It’s pure lunacy.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Strangerland: If that was not what you were trying to infer, then posting the comment you did was useless, as it didn't further or add anything to the conversation, and only detracts by it as coming as an attempt to infer justification of the actions by the officer.

That’s your opinion of what was said. He didn’t actually say it. It’s fine if you believe someone’s post is useless -ignore it. When making a point about the rioting, which happens to be the immediate crisis since lives are being lost, that doesn’t infer anything about what someone thinks about the precipitating event. You can ask if that is what is meant and further discussion can ensue on what you are most concerned about. I sometimes try reading people’s minds on this board and I can get off track by getting too emotionally invested- it happens.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Everyone seems to be very sad about poor George Floyd. But if someone speaks up about how bad the violence has become and that it is causing more harm (multiple deaths, injuries, property damage, and racial antagonism) we are accused of not caring about black people.

The problem is timing. The right won't let black people protest peacefully - anytime anyone ever says anything - like Kaepernick - it gets shut down. Then when they've had enough and protest, the right says 'but whaddabout ...'

It's this refusal to ever deal with the issue that leads to protests nationwide.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Floyd was murdered by the cop. Now there are riots killing more people. Seems important to discuss that.

Well, stopping the riots (not the protests) needs to be a priority.

Protestors protest black men getting murdered by the police. Opportunists (let's ignore the back and forth on who they are) use the cover provided by police who are dealing with the protests to loot and commit mayhem. The right says "it's terrible that black people are being murdered, but we need to get stop the mayhem".

The protestors think "it's terrible that businesses are being looted and burned, but young black men are being murdered".

There is a difference in perspective here.

(Disclosure - above stolen from Facebook meme)

The problem is that due to the distraction by the opportunists, the right feel that they are justified in not bothering to discuss the valid issues the protestors put forth. Then the whole thing gets swept under the rug. Times get better, someone bends a knee, and that person is made a pariah and becomes unemployable.

Rinse and repeat.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

That’s your opinion of what was said. He didn’t actually say it.

Hence my point. If it weren't what he is inferring, not only would it add nothing to the conversation, it would detract from it by causing a diversion due to it seeming inference.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

June 15 cover for Time magazine will cover systemic racism.

 35 black men and women, whose deaths were a result of systemic racism, says Time. Most of these deaths were by police.

TIME's new cover: Say their names https://t.co/nOM5sqwVkS pic.twitter.com/tgzEcLn2ds

The full list of names are: Trayvon Martin, Yvette Smith, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Laquan McDonald, Tanisha Anderson, Akai Gurley, Tamir Rice, Jerame Reid, Natasha McKenna, Eric Harris, Walter Scott, Freddie Gray, William Chapman, Sandra Bland, Darrius Stewart, Samuel DuBose, Janet Wilson, Calin Roquemore, Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Joseph Mann, Terence Crutcher, Chad Robertson, Jordan Edwards, Aaron Bailey, Stephon Clark, Danny Ray Thomas, Antwon Rose, Botham Jean, Atatiana Jefferson, Michael Dean, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Or to turn that into a concrete example of what I'm saying: If he wasn't trying to infer that the preceding interaction would justify the resulting action, then the point of the video of the preceding action not being available adds nothing to the conversation, since it wouldn't change the judgement of the outcome.

On the contrary, bringing up this point about the video not being available detracts from the conversation, as the insertion of this point to the conversation leads the other participants to naturally infer that this point is meant to be relevant to the conversation about whether the police actions were justified, and since it's not, it just muddies the discussion.

Now that all said, I'm open to the idea that maybe there was another reason it was brought up. And in the interests of having an honest discussion, at least for now while the country burns down, I would like to know what the point of bringing up the fact that the video of the preceding interaction is not available? How did it add to the conversation?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The problem is timing. The right won't let black people protest peacefully - anytime anyone ever says anything - like Kaepernick - it gets shut down.

Kaepernik has not been shut up and he continues to voice his opinion to this day. A large American corporation paid him millions to amplify his opinions. He is saint-like to the Progressive Left and his rare utterances are covered in-debut by the media inside and outside of the sports pages. It’s true that many people find his choice of protest during the national anthem as offensive. To me it is. Kaepernik chose to be offensive on purpose to make his point. But he set himself up for that by his choice. He chose to divide and appeal to those who want to fundamentally undo America.

Then when they've had enough and protest, the right says 'but whaddabout ...'

The problem with this argument is that you deny the right of others to protest against his divisive tactics. That’s wanting your cake and eating it too. Doesn’t work that way in life

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Kaepernik has not been shut up and he continues to voice his opinion to this day.

Oh he was told plenty to shut up. To the point that no one would employ him, as he was a pariah for having dared take a knee.

Can he still speak? For sure. But just as left-wing society mostly silenced people like Milo Yanapolis and Alex Jones, so has the left mostly silenced Colin Kapernick. Or at least, both sides have attempted to do so.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

Bryan told police McMichael said "fing ner" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, Dial said.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The problem with this argument is that you deny the right of others to protest against his divisive tactics.

No, I call out the actions of others in sweeping aside the issue he was raising, because his "divisive tactics" made them uncomfortable. And I point out that it directly leads to mass protests at some point - this is NOT the first (nor definitely the last) time these protests have happened in American history. And opportunists will always use those protests as an opportunity to riot and loot. Sweeping the issue under the rug, because you're uncomfortable with discussing the issue brought up by "divisive tactics", directly leads to rioting and mass looting. Not as an active intention by the right to cause this, but as the unavoidable conclusion of refusing to discuss the issues of unreasonable discrimination of minorities, when those minorities bring up the issue.

That’s wanting your cake and eating it too. Doesn’t work that way in life

Wanting your cake and eating it too, is wanting to sweep an issue under the rug and never deal with it, while being able to complain about the inevitable result of refusing to discuss that issue.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I am amaze with the sheer amount of recklessness of the US people. More than a million infections, loss millions of jobs and people still have the energy to riot and torch the city. They are just making a big deal out of it to able to riot, loot and burn. Is more about looting stores and destruction than about justice itself. The whole thing is a joke and a farce.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I wonder if the solution to the rioting in the streets is for Trump to drain the swamp by resigning.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The faux concern from those who previously dismissed social distancing is shameful.

It's almost as if the continuous subjugation of black people doesn't matter.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I wonder if the solution to the rioting in the streets is for Trump to drain the swamp by resigning.

He should retreat to the bunker. He likes walls, apparently.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Strangerland: Oh he was told plenty to shut up. To the point that no one would employ him, as he was a pariah for having dared take a knee.

Telling someone to shut up is not a crime - it’s a protected First Amendment right. Just as protected for them as it is for those telling patriotic Americans that they are racist because they refuse the binary ‘you are with us or against us’ narrative of Kaepernik and his supporters. The reality is there is no law to force him to shut up anymore than the Left can force Rush Limbaugh to shut up. Though they are still trying.

This gets to a very dangerous change in America today. There is an increasingly effective effort to silence people with conservative views - actual shutting people up. Drew Brees was just forced to shut up and apologize for his support for the flag and the national anthem. Kaepernik hasn’t been forced to apologize. A long time announcer for a pro hockey team was recently fired from his job for saying All Lives Matter. Leftists dominate at tech monopolies like Twitter and Google and they use their power to clamp down on conservatives. Kaepernik is still making millions from Nike and deciding that they cannot market shoes with US flag imagery.

If average Americans can be fired for making a positive and inclusive statement about the value of all human beings there is no real free speech protections anymore.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Telling someone to shut up is not a crime - it’s a protected First Amendment right. 

Where did I claim otherwise? I was pointing out that exercising your right to free speech in silencing the issue when someone protests peacefully results in the issue not getting discussed, and lingering resentment. Then when the people protest en masse, since their concerns have been completely ignored by the majority, opportunists step in and loot and riot.

Telling someone to shut up is most definitely a first amendment right. It inevitably results in rioting and looting though.

But hey, feel free to absolve yourself of moral responsibility since you’re exercising your first amendment right. Not like the results of that decision matter.

Said the business owners whose businesses have been looted.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If average Americans can be fired for making a positive and inclusive statement about the value of all human beings there is no real free speech protections anymore.

But your team feels it’s ok when the person is an above-average American like Kaepernick.

Your refusal to even accept that your teams actions have any responsibility for the inevitable outcome is exactly why the problem cannot be fixed, and these riots are just “this time”.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The right likes to talk about how the left’s ignorance of the common Americans issues directly led to the election of Trump. And they’re right. Those people’s concerns are valid and deserve a voice.

The right doesn’t like to admit that it ignores the concerns of a different group of average Americans in the exact same manner.

And these riots are the inevitable result.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Strangerland: No, I call out the actions of others in sweeping aside the issue he was raising, because his "divisive tactics" made them uncomfortable. 

No one is sweeping aside anything. Kaepernik knows what he is doing. He has purposefully offended a lot of people in order to draw attention to himself and his cause. When the offended predictably voice their offense they are called racists and accused of sweeping aside his concerns - you are parroting this slander. They are made to shut up or lose their jobs. They are be picked on by Leftist radicals who see free speech as a one way street. Kaepernik is attempting to force people to reject a core personal belief in order to support him. It cannot be both. It’s a binary ‘us vs them’ game of gotcha. These tactics used by many on the Left are destroying the fabric of the nation - not mending it. That is clearly the goal of Black Loves Matter. Kaepernik’s views are closer to Fidel Castro’s communism than that of those who support the core beliefs of what America stands for.

Instead of bringing people together he is trying to defeat his enemies. It’s the exact opposite of what he should be doing. He should be embracing the flag and claiming his and all Americans right to equal treatment under the flag and the Constitution it represents. Americans would respond to that unifying message. As American society continues to disintegrate it will get much worse before it can possibly get better.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Strangerland: It's this refusal to ever deal with the issue that leads to protests nationwide.

Then explain to us why long time Progressive cities continue to refuse to fix their failures? You never answer that question. You continue to shift the blame elsewhere. It’s no wonder these cities continue to have riots relating to race issues decade after decade.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No one is sweeping aside anything. 

Yes they are.

When you say “now is not the time”, and don’t make yourself available at/with a more appropriate time, you have swept it aside.

Which inevitably leads to the people with something to say protesting en masse, which opportunists use to loot and riot.

And nothing is ever fixed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Then explain to us why long time Progressive cities continue to refuse to fix their failures? 

And another example is refusing to discuss the issue by diverting to something else.

Maybe try furthering the discussion first, by addressing the issue, then maybe calling up an equally hypocritical thing. Instead you just call out the hypocrisy without addressing your own.

And nothing gets fixed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Strangerland: The right doesn’t like to admit that it ignores the concerns of a different group of average Americans in the exact same manner. 

Republicans want a colorblind society. Progressives consider that racist. The Left keeps pulling on the scab of racial grievance and not surprisingly there are regular explosions within Progressive cities frustrated by the continued failure to deliver reforms. The vast majority of the frustration felt by black Americans is occurring within governments and systems created and run by Progressives. Why? You are not willing to confront that.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Republicans want a colorblind society.

Republicans claim to be colorblind, and refuse to address the inequality of opportunity in society to those of certain races, based on the color of their skin.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You are not willing to confront that.

Oh, you got me this time. I responded, and again you have sidestepped any discussion of your team's responsibility for this issue.

And nothing gets fixed.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Strangerland: Yes they are. 

When you say “now is not the time”, and don’t make yourself available at/with a more appropriate time, you have swept it aside.

Who is saying "now is not the time"? I certainly am not. Americans never stop talking about racial differences. It's always in your face. I would suggest that it would be easier for others to make themselves available to you if you weren't insulting them - and actually denying that you are doing so. It's like asking Muslims to address the problem of Islamic extremism within it's ranks by first dropping a Koran into a jar of urine. You get the persons attention - but it's a bad way to start a constructive conversation. You can't get to the discussion about the problem when your opponent is continually having to defend himself from being slandered a racist. But as I mentioned earlier, that is the tactic Kaepernik chose to pursue. It's not a tactic of reconciliation. It's an acknowledged tactic of confrontation. It's the Malcolm X vs. MLK method of pursuing civil rights. Kaepernik is the failed and divisive Malcolm X.

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Then explain to us why long time Progressive cities continue to refuse to fix their failures? 

And another example is refusing to discuss the issue by diverting to something else.

That's not something else. That's the issue. George Floyd wasn't killed by a good old boy redneck down in a small Alabama town. He was killed by a policeman working for a Progressive black police chief, who works for a Progressive Mayor, who is under a Progressive Governor. Most if not all of the riots going are in cities with very similar political power structures. They are the structures of intolerance that killed George Floyd and within which of majority of the unarmed black people are killed by government law enforcement officials. Why can't you see that?

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Who is saying "now is not the time"?

Everyone who told Kapernick he needed to get up off that knee. Everyone who ensured Kapernick wasn't employable after that. Everyone who ever supported both of those things, without saying 'but let's discuss it at X time, which is more appropriate', and making themselves available at that time.

Literally millions of Americans.

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Strangerland - When you say “now is not the time”, and don’t make yourself available at/with a more appropriate time, you have swept it aside.

Which inevitably leads to the people with something to say protesting en masse, which opportunists use to loot and riot.

Large cities, run by Democrats, didn't make themselves available at/with a more appropriate time, and now the protesters are providing cover for the looters, and rioters. I guess "now is not the time" could be considered the motto of all those big city Democrats.

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Strangerland: Oh, you got me this time. I responded, and again you have sidestepped any discussion of your team's responsibility for this issue.

You can't even tell me what "my teams" responsibility for the issue is. I would guess that is because it isn't my team that has the problem. My team doesn't run Minneapolis, or Ferguson, or Baltimore, etc....

What do you want "my team" to confront that would have saved George Floyd's life? That cop isn't on my team. He is on the Progressive black police chiefs team.

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That's the issue. George Floyd wasn't killed by a good old boy redneck down in a small Alabama town.

So to be clear, you say "That's the issue". As in one issue, or the only issue? If it's the only issue, I personally would infer that to mean that you believe the problem is 100% entirely this one issue, that is entirely 100% created by the left, since there are no other issues, and you are not taking any credit for this issue. Which, I would say is a convenient sidestep to discuss any issues coming from policies enacted by your team.

Now, if it's 'an issue', it would seem to me that by framing it as 'the issue', and refusing to discuss any responsibility whatsoever by your teams policies, convenient sidestep to discuss any issues coming from policies enacted by your team.

And nothing gets fixed.

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Everyone who told Kapernick he needed to get up off that knee. Everyone who ensured Kapernick wasn't employable after that. Everyone who ever supported both of those things, without saying 'but let's discuss it at X time, which is more appropriate', and making themselves available at that time.

Those who said Kapernick should get off his knee weren't telling him it wasn't time to talk about race issues - for the millionth time. They were telling him he was insulting them. They were saying let's talk about reconciliation and not about tearing down the only thing that unites us as a family - the United States of America. If you cannot start with unity on anything - the very thing that protects our humanity - then there isn't much to build on. That's why his approach is failing and will always fail. It's designed to fail.

I will also repeat that just as Kaprenick has a right to insult his fellow American's by what is perceived as disrespectful actions, people who consider themselves patriotic also have a right to express their views as well. Again - free speech is not a one way street. The Malcolm X method of confrontation and attack doesn't heal wounds. It inflames them. Which of course, is what Kapernick is purposefully doing.

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Strangerland - The right doesn’t like to admit that it ignores the concerns of a different group of average Americans in the exact same manner.

And these riots are the inevitable result.

The large cities controlled by Democrats are experiencing rioting, burning, and looting. The protesters are fed up with the kind of government that they have been receiving at the hands of their elected Democrats. And these riots are the inevitable result.

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Those who said Kapernick should get off his knee weren't telling him it wasn't time to talk about race issues - for the millionth time. They were telling him he was insulting them.

I agree - exercising their first amendment right to do so.

However, in saying "don't talk about that here and now", and not providing another forum in which to do so, the issue was not resolved.

Fast forward to a few years later, and the simmering resentment boils over into protests in the street. Opportunists take this opportunity to loot and riot.

This is the inevitable conclusion of always brushing the issue aside, and refusing to talk about it.

I agree with you that the people telling Kaepernick had a right to do so. That doesn't change the fact that doing so without providing an alternate forum inevitably leads to looting and rioting.

It's why whining without providing a solution, is counter-productive.

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The large cities controlled by Democrats are experiencing rioting, burning, and looting. The protesters are fed up with the kind of government that they have been receiving at the hands of their elected Democrats. And these riots are the inevitable result.

And by boiling it down to a single issue, that you then pin on the other team, without taking any responsibility whatsoever for your own team's policies that have led to the situation, is a convenient means of sidestepping the problem and never having any actual discussion of the issue at hand.

And nothing ever gets fixed.

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Strangerland - But your team feels it’s ok when the person is an above-average American like Kaepernick.

LOL. You consider Kaepernick to be above-average. Kaepernick is just your average, attention-seeking moron who has even managed to embarrasse his own mother. Kaepernick made his statement. People heard what he had to say. The public made up their own minds about Kaepernick, his actions, and his babbling.

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Stranger land: I've pointed it out lots. For example, how making a pariah of Kapernick and never providing a forum in which to deal with the issues he brought up, directly leads to rioting and looting by opportunists who use the cover of non-violent protests.

No one made a pariah out of Kapernick - if anyone made him anything it was Kapernick himself. Everything he did was his own decision. He was the one who decided upon confrontation over reconciliation. He must be responsible for his own actions - no one else can do that for him. When you say he doesn't have a forum - what does that mean. He has a huge forum to get his word out. Everytime he speaks or puts out a message (which is strangely rare) it is covered by all of the media elites. What forum is it that he doesn't have that you think he should?

But in actuality Kapernik isn't a pariah - he is a hero to everyone from the mainstream media, to Hollywood, to the sports world, and to the corporate elites. That's true isn't it? You know who isn't a hero to all of these people? Drew Brees. He isn't a hero because he loves his country and said it proudly for all to hear. The backlash was swift and severe. He was made to be sorry and will certainly no longer be telling everyone that he is a proud America. Yet Kapernick will continue to condemn America as innately irredeemable and racist. Nike will continue paying him.

But let's be honest, Kaperniks kneeling didn't lead directly to the rioting and looting. It was another bad cop in a Progressive city, run by a Progressive police chief, working for a Progressive Mayor, under a Progressive Governor. And the rioting and looting by opportunists under the cover of non-violent protests was by mostly young white anarchists seeking to sow discord. Why defend these failures. Why not confront and overcome them?

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You consider Kaepernick to be above-average.

You consider making it to the NFL something the average American can do? You consider a name known country-wide is something that happens to the average American?

But, your tactic of minimizing whom he is, is a convenient sidestep of any discussion about the message he may have had.

Then it simmers in the people who want to speak that message, eventually resulting in protests, which opportunists use as cover to riot and loot.

And nothing ever gets fixed.

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who was President when this started and why did he not deal with the issues? why did he never provide a forum?

Did this President he have a VP at this time? who was he?

making a pariah of Kapernick and never providing a forum in which to deal with the issues he brought up,

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No one made a pariah out of Kapernick - if anyone made him anything it was Kapernick himself.

The guy was unemployable after taking the stance he did. He put himself in that position by taking that stance. But maybe you don't know this - it's impossible to make oneself a pariah, by definition it is something done by others.

But placing the blame on him allows for detraction of any discussion of the actual issue at hand.

And nothing ever gets fixed.

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The guy was unemployable after taking the stance he did. He put himself in that position by taking that stance. But maybe you don't know this - it's impossible to make oneself a pariah, by definition it is something done by others.

That's not even close to being true. Kapernick immediately got a job with a huge American corporation that paid him millions. I would take that gig in a heartbeat. He isn't a pariah - he is a martyr. He is revered by millions. I hazard that you are one of those millions. Kapernick had a chance with the Baltimore Ravens the next year but his girlfriend blew the deal. He doesn't want to be a backup like Robert Griffen III and try to work his way up to a starting position again. He won't play in Canada where he could make a mint like Doug Flutie did before returning to the NFL. Kapernik was bad for business. But that's okay for him, because his new job pays a lot too. Now he has been out of the game for 4 years and is a prima donna that won't even work out for NFL teams without being a drama queen.

Kapernick is right where he wants to be. He is making a killing from Nike. He has a say in their marketing decisions. He can claim to be a martyr for his people and is very influential among Progressives like you. I find it odd that a man who has made well over $100 million and is in the upper reaches of the 1% is such a huge victim in your eyes.

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But placing the blame on him allows for detraction of any discussion of the actual issue at hand.

And nothing ever gets fixed.

No one is blaming Kapernick for the failures of Progressive cities to treat black people right. Continued avoidance of this crucial failure of governance will ensure that the problem never gets fixed.

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A football player is no longer employable as a football player.

But because he found another job, and got rich, it means that the issue at hand does not need discussion. The right is never wrong.

And nothing ever gets fixed.

He could have had another football job whenever he wanted it. All he had to do was not insult his customers - which is the minimum one could expect from an employee. I did tell you about that pro hockey team announcer who lost his job for saying 'all lives matter' didn't I? Do you think it was fair he was fired? Kapernik could have gotten a job in the CFL - they would have taken him in a second. The Canadians are so nice they wouldn't even have minded him hating them for being so white. But he refused to play in Canada. He would rather be an ex-football player making millions from a corporate giant and have fawning acolytes hang on his every word. He is very successful at what he does - and he is making a lot of money doing it. That's the American dream :-)

If the "issue at hand" is cops killing black people - then protest the cops. A lot of conservatives are angry about the failures of the Minneapolis political structure as well. Tearing down the whole country in the process doesn't help the situation at all. It has the reverse effect and causes more divisiveness.

Blaming the problem 100% on the failures of "progressive cities", is a convenient means of sidestepping any discussion on policies of the right that have led to the issue.

I do blame Progressive cities for the failure to integrate blacks and for the horrendous record they have with their ill treatment of blacks. Of course not 100% of the problems are black people are because of Progressives. But tell me, what policies from the Right are in effect in the Progressive city that caused George Floyd's death? Let's talk about them. What about the three strikes polices and the prison reforms implemented during the Clinton administration and championed by Biden that have led to millions of blacks being imprisoned? You know, the same laws that Trump just reformed.

The stance of the right is that that the right is never wrong. In refusing to even discuss any failings of their leaders, the conversation is never furthered.

No, I don't think that is true at all. The right has plenty wrong. Trump is a bull in a China shop - I call him a clown because his behavior is clownish. But when it comes to the most acute race issues in the places where most blacks live, the Right has no political muscle. However, it isn't completely their fault. Republicans generally done't believe in laws that discriminate against people based on race - Progressives have no problem at all enticing blacks with affirmative action, education preferences, and contracting set asides. Socialism is hard to turn down - that's why blacks suffering from years of oppression at the hands of the Klan (supported by Democrats by the way) began to swing their votes to FDR beginning with the Great Depression. Same of the New Deal programs FDR put in place were racist - but others were not. But of course, Democrats have always believed in race based public policy haven't they?

Isn't it odd that you argue that the Right refuses to discuss their failings and thus prevent further discussion all the while doing the exact same thing? You are adamant about not discussing the failure of Progressive policies that have over multiple generations failed to improve the lives of black Americans in major cities since the 1960s.

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Many people blame others for the racism, when you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

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Many people blame others for the racism, when you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

I couldn't agree more. All lives matter.

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It's why whining without providing a solution, is counter-productive.

Its hard to be productive when working towards a color blind society where people are treated based on the content of their character instead of the color of their skin isn’t good enough for the Left anymore.

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Large cities, run by Democrats, didn't make themselves available at/with a more appropriate time, and now the protesters are providing cover for the looters, and rioters. I guess "now is not the time" could be considered the motto of all those big city Democrats.

Dont attack the messenger..but things are starting to get interesting...

Uh oh. COVID 19 numbers rising. Young people may not have it so bad, but who is spreading it to older folks?

Trumps fault? Interesting to watch this show because Im suspect we will soon be at a tipping point of lots of accountability being required, not for Trump for these lovely people and their feelings.

Uh oh. Rioting and inciting a riot...serious business and prosecutors are starting to get busy.

Uh oh. Insurance companies are getting claims for the damages. They will start becoming resourceful in looking for income.

Uh oh....)

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Studies showed that after the Rodney King riots, it took 10 years for any recovery to begin, and it never fully recovered. In todays money, its estimated that loss was in the billions. Many of the businesses never came back.

Multiply that across the US for this one.

Uh oh. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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Studies showed that after the Rodney King riots, it took 10 years for any recovery to begin, and it never fully recovered. 

And the problem still exists as it was. Refusal to admit the situation exists had prevented the problem from any resolution.

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back to COVID, there are ZERO reported deaths today in NYC from corona. Interesting.

Its like it just.....disappeared.

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The cost of the Covid-19 is already $7 trillion plus.

Covid-19 has not ended until it ends across the country and then across the world.

108,000 dead. 1.8 million infected.

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The older you get, you realize what those who said "the more things change, the more they stay the same" its not just talk

Theyve changed laws, all kinds of "interesting" and progressive yet bizarre concepts now are mainstream

All that and still acting like hunter gatherer tribes, actually getting worse

But, after the tipping point, watch it all these people get arrested and all this money will be paid out

so much for all that damage. Just like with Rodney King

I hope there is police reform, but legacy tells us, there will be more white flight, more gun sales, more distrust

Probably a spike in stocks for self defense and security companies though.

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