Germany's Scholz rebukes Vance; defends Europe's stance on hate speech and far right

Vance forgot what the purpose of the meeting was. Like I have said, Europe should stop inviting the US to these meetings.

Vance met on Friday with the leader of AfD, after endorsing the party as a political partner — a stance Berlin dismissed as unwelcome election interference.

MAGA is going full on far-right.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Vance forgot what the purpose of the meeting was. Like I have said, Europe should stop inviting the US to these meetings.

No mention of Ukraine.

These boneheaded republicans with their hitler salutes and right wing positions. Disgraceful. It's gotten to the point where it's difficult to distinguish friend from foe.

Far-right governments have never produced thriving countries anywhere in the history of the world and they never will. At best just a bunch of populist incompetent kleptocrats, at worst mass murderers.

If it weren't for Merkel, a former East German Communist, and her toxic policies, the AFD would be nothing today. The mainstream parties need to address how they created a modern-day version of the Weimar Republic, now that Germany is going down the tubes on a number of fronts.

If they are going to parallel the current situation with the 1930s, they need to look at their own actions.

Never again fascism, never again racism, never again aggressive war. 

this fear of the past is what’s holding Germany back. The far right is gaining because there is no middle ground on this subject.

If Germany and the Europeans want to control speech, let them, as long as they don’t do it in the US, who cares?

If Germany and the Europeans want to control speech, let them, as long as they don’t do it in the US, who cares?

Well JD Vance cares a lot, apparently. He obviously doesn't like the idea of fascists being censored.

Well, I have to say that JD is at least consistent...

He face-planted each day during the campaign and it's no different now that he's in office...

He's an incompetent hack - and embarrasses himself and the US every time he opens his mouth...

But I imagine he does know the difference between the company TikTok and the candy Tic Tacs...

Vance will be on the third string,he is a third rate politican under Musk

Well JD Vance cares a lot, apparently.

Sure, all nations should be able to say what they want, all of them.

He obviously doesn't like the idea of fascists being censored.

Even hate speech should be protected, not sure why fascists would want that?

Painting the AfD as Nazis and its supporters as swivel eyed racists is part of the problem. A growing number of Germans fear for their safety due to attacks from so called asylum seekers or refugees. They also do not like the changes to German society that come with literally millions of new arrivals from places with very different cultures and social norms. You may have noticed the far left never mention the clash between their support for women and sexual minority rights and the views of recent immigrants on these topics. The AfD and other parties in Europe with sensible immigration policies are gaining in popularity but rigged political systems are against them.

Vance's speech about "The true enemy is the enemy within", is like the pot calling the kettle black. Look at what the U.S. is becoming with Trump: freedoms being taken away on a daily basis and Trump trying to start a constitutional crisis. Trump promised to work for the people, but so far, he's shown that he's only working for himself and his rich friends. Imagine if Ronald Reagan had gutted Medicaid? He hated it and wanted to get rid of it, but after realizing how much good it did for the people, he ended up keeping it and in fact championing it. He did it for the people.

Trump and Vance, in condemning Europe, while praising Russia, is sending a message to be like Russia. Fortunately, most of the world does not think in that way. Becoming a state where you cannot protest, or speak your mind, or have any opposition towards the government, is not the way to go. Trump wants to remain president forever, just like Putin. That should and cannot happen. If that happens, we lose our democracy.

Alternative for Germany is a far-right and right-wing populist political party in Germany. The AfD is Eurosceptic and opposes immigration into Germany.

The AfD is trying to appeal to voters with its opposition to illegal immigration, but that is not enough to persuade most voters. There have been major demonstrations against the AfD, which may win votes but not enough to form a government.

The majority of Germans oppose the AfD. Two-thirds of German voters polled in October saw the AfD's rise as a threat to democracy and the rule of law.

"Other parties say they won’t work with Alternative for Germany, which is under observation by the domestic intelligence agency for suspected right-wing extremism, something that AfD objects to strongly. Its branches in three eastern states are designated “proven right-wing extremist” groups. That’s particularly sensitive given Germany’s Nazi past."

Illegal immigration is a problem for all European countries.

Musk expressed support for the AfD and gave an 'X' interview to its leader but not the other leaders. Musk has expressed support for the extreme right-wing parties in Europe.

I forget is Scholz's popularity in Germany at 14% or 15%.

Maybe Scholz should try responding to the concerns of German citizens and start acting in the best interest of the country?

He obviously doesn't like the idea of fascists being censored

Well free speech is all but banned in the UK, If anyone in the UK had spoken similar , he/she would have been immediately arrested and jailed.

If Germany and the Europeans want to control speech, let them, as long as they don’t do it in the US, who cares?

Well said.

The acute failure of most European leaders to address the concerns of the people they represent is the most serious threat to European democracy in 80 years.

Yes, doing things to make shop clerks and truck drivers happy not elite bankers is democracy.

Wallace.

Lets look closely at Adf manifesto.

https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-12_afd-grundsatzprogramm-englisch_web.pdf

5 Preamble

We are liberals and conservatives. We are free citizens of our nation.

We are staunch supporters of democracy. We have come together as citizens with different back ground, experience, qualifications and political careers. In spite of our differences, we believe in a common vision, and that the time to stand up and act has arrived. We share a firm conviction that citizens have the right to true political alternatives, not only those presented by the political class

wallace, please read, at the very least listen to all side here.

You may still vehemently passionately disagree, but to to suggest Adf is far right extremism is simply disingenuous, I suggest failure to challenge with clear argument debate, instead resorting to cancelling opposition opinion.

Precisely JD Vance point in question.

A point clearly lost on Germany's Scholz.

Leading on to Adam Smith-Connor, his 20 years in the Army Reserves, to be found guilty of violating a buffer zone around a Bournemouth abortion clinic.

legislation perversely weaponizing a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO), local councils have grossly abused to issue under a 2014 law, that was introduced to curb “anti-social behavior.”

Its censorship, worse still for the first time used to convict Adam Smith-Connor of a thought crime.

This is the legitimate cut of JD Vance criticism.

Well done Scholz..

All Europe, rebuke and reject MAGA gang..

Even hate speech should be protected, not sure why fascists would want that?

You're not sure why fascists would want hate speech to be protected? Well, because they're speaking a lot of hate.

Read this ProPublica article -

"Trump’s Near Sweep of Texas Border Counties Shows a Shift to the Right for Latino Voters - The former president captured 55% of Latino voters in the state, according to exit polls. He also won 14 out of the 18 counties within 20 miles of the border, a number that doubled his 2020 performance in the Latino-majority region.".

Election results are data, and all science believers should want to see and understand the data.

Are all those Trump Hispanic voters rabid anti-immigrant racists? No. They were simply overwhelmed by the quantity of uncontrolled immigration and want to rebalance. It is doubtful those voters want to deport all DACA, for example. If Dems had made an effort to be more representative, moving beyond just those Hispanics fluent in Latinx, they would have understood that asylum-on-demand has negative effects on voters on who they were taking for granted. The worst thing to do now is let pride get in the way of listening and caring about more voters.

itsonlyrocknroll

Lets look closely at Adf manifesto.

I already have.

You may still vehemently passionately disagree, but to to suggest Adf is far right extremism is simply disingenuous, I suggest failure to challenge with clear argument debate, instead resorting to cancelling opposition opinion.

The people in Germany state the AfD is an extremist far-right party. The leader was prosecuted for nazism. Hundreds of thousands of Germans have protested against them.

Far-right German politicians tried for Nazi slogans. In other words ... While the party has become more radical over the years, its leaders..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-69003733

Immigration's a LEGITIMATE Issue in EVERY country.

Regular citizens suffer, not the globalists seeking out cheap labor. Real people pay more for housing, while there is downward pressure on their wages and social services like schools and hospitals are damaged as well.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz obviously and sadly is willing to attack its own citizens and destroy their Democracy in the process. How convenient, as he stands to gain politically with less political 'competition'.

Politicians in REAL Democracies need to solve issues, not Suppress them illegally via anti-democratic tools.

The U.S. not only has the largest number of illegal immigrants in absolute terms compared to the other countries on this list, but it also leads proportionally. Currently, it’s estimated that 22% of immigrants in America lack legal status.

Germany has 650,000 illegal immigrants. The UK 700,000.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/share-of-illegal-immigrants-across-9-developed-countries/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20not%20only%20has,in%20America%20lack%20legal%20status.

If Germany and the Europeans want to control speech, let them, as long as they don’t do it in the US, who cares?

So JD Vance should shut up about it then? Ok.

> Well done Scholz.. 

All Europe, rebuke and reject MAGA gang..

And in the end they will be crawling back because they know they need the US.

So JD Vance should shut up about it then? Ok.

And if he doesn't?? Then what?

The U.S. not only has the largest number of illegal immigrants

And that number is decreasing day by day...

in absolute terms compared to the other countries on this list, but it also leads proportionally. Currently, it’s estimated that 22% of immigrants in America lack legal status.

Very true and that problem is being dealt with as we speak

Germany has 650,000 illegal immigrants. The UK 700,000.

Wow!

mrtinjpToday 09:53 am JST

Well free speech is all but banned in the UK

Please provide evidence for this assertion.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz immigration hypocrisy is obvious to the entire world. Citizens everywhere have an obvious right to weigh in on immigration policies adversely impacting their economic and social wellbeing.

Democracy that suppresses and punishes citizens rightfully protesting immigration policies = NOT Democracy!

The acute failure of most European leaders to address the concerns of the people they represent is the most serious threat to European democracy in 80 years.

Yes, doing things to make shop clerks and truck drivers happy not elite bankers is democracy.

Yes!! Very well said!

For some reason, addressing the concerns of the people is labeled "far right."

Do we believe in FREE Speech?!

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz sure Does NOT!

Apparently talking about immigration 'Off' the table in today's Germany = SAD Stuff, no wonder Germany now so troubled and in decline...

bass4funk

The U.S. not only has the largest number of illegal immigrants

And that number is decreasing day by day...

It will take longer than Trump's five years of office.

Germany has 1 million Syrian refugees from their war. Many have expressed a wish to return to their country.

As of January 2025, over 1.2 million refugees from Ukraine from their war. Those people will return home.

So JD Vance should shut up about it then? Ok.

And if he doesn't?? Then what?

You’ll still pretend not to care?

Nobody knows the future, especially what immigrants decide to do, especially as Ukraine is now a failed state.

What do we know? German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is DESTROYING Democracy, not allowing its citizens to discuss and organize around important issue of immigration!

wallace, fair enough lets focus on......

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz delivered a strong rebuke on Saturday to U.S. Vice President JD Vance's attack on Europe's stance toward hate speech and the far right, saying it was not right for others to tell Germany and Europe what to do.*

Is this really a rebuke?

Or, in reality in the cold light of day, another duplicitous smoke screen mirage to hide Scholz failure in office, his collusion/traffic light coalition of incompetence, his cowardice to take responsibility for windmills over a clear policy of energy security for the people of Germany, working people, families, pensioners, a clear dereliction of duty in office?

JD Vance the insolent loud young American delivering a harsh truth?

A brutal analysis , I contend could also be construed as interference to quote

A federal election will be held in Germany on 23 February 2025 to elect the 630 members of the 21st Bundestag. It is the fourth snap election in the history..... wiki 

Donald Trump/JD Vance are unrelenting, ruthless in such contempt for EU member states ineptitude, the proposed trump reciprocal tariffs will be unmistakeably cruel.

Trump/Vance insistence that Europe security obligations all will begin at home is humiliating.

Almost comical, with the posturing Macron calling a emergency whatever.......

Macron calls emergency European summit on Trump, Polish minister says

https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-convenes-european-emergency-summit-in-paris-on-sunday-polish-minister-says/

All another rather meaningless fudge, to find some respite for Macron domestic political poo storm of his own feckless creation.

Starmers UK government could be next,

*

itsonlyrocknroll

wallace, fair enough lets focus on......

Your comments are too long to respond to and too many. Sorry. You have asked several of me already.

Ok wallace, I overly rant, its a fair criticism, nothing personal, many agree with your sentiments, worrying so, but still suffer my company, please enjoy your your Sunday

Background:

On Friday, months-old legislation proposed by Merz’s center-right Union bloc that called for an end to family reunions for migrants with a protection status that falls short of full asylum went to a vote. It also would have given federal police increased powers to carry out deportations. ... was rejected by 350 votes to 338, with five abstentions.

Won the battle - but what about the war? Germany doesn't have national referendums except for constitutional issues. So if the Bundestag gets out of sync with voters on this one issue then only way for the voters to solve it is either suppress their opinions or vote for somebody else.

Here is an article fro DW this year "https://www.dw.com/en/immigration-german-voters-want-to-accept-fewer-refugees/a-71477761" --

Around 68% of Germans believe the country should take in fewer refugees, according to the latest Deutschlandtrend monthly survey conducted by public broadcaster ARD. About 22% believe the current level of admissions should be maintained, while only 3% could imagine taking in more refugees.

You can read the whole article and find wiggle room, for example most want to stay in step with the EU.

However, IMO drawing lines in sand and calling the majority of voters Nazi sympathizers for their immigration stance is just really inaccurate and dumb. Long term, it could also be much worse for the immigrants already there. Even if you manage a demonstration of 1 million people, there are still another 83 million people not there. That's not really a scientifically accurate substitute for democracy.

The German voters will decide and have the final say but it's unlikely the AfD will be part of any government.