Germany, allies mark 30 years since Berlin Wall fell

This marks the 30th anniversary of liberal democratic values trumping conservative, authoritarian values.

30 years ago! jeeees, I remember as if it was yesterday, where does time go? its nice to see that time has changed things drematicly, oh, and those loverly highly polluting trabant cars, they were something like a 800 cc two stroke engine,

I remember when The Berlin Wall was erected. It is difficult to believe that it has been gone for longer than it existed in the first place.

Walls do not keep people out any better than they keep people in. That lesson has yet to be learned despite the teaching of generations of accumulated experience.

Photo of the Berlin Wall made on Nov. 11, 1989

http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/BB_Berlin.jpg

Can’t believe it’s been 30 years. During those depressive years it was never easy to get mail or to even send products to the former DDR. It was always for us in the west to know what life was like, we knew to an extent, but we had no idea how deep and brutal the Stasis were and what was even more interesting was once the Wall came down (and we were lucky, my uncle took a huge chunk and gave it to us to always remember and never forget) the government opened and allowed the public to read all the files that the Stasis kept on people. Some had a few, others had thick files on them.

You always had to be vigilant and careful what you said and the person you associated with you would be under their radar and you would never know how that would progress or end, neighbors were always encouraged to spy on each other, trust was a huge factor and although the wall is gone there is still an invisible wall of acceptance, tolerance and division between the former East and West. The East has been a magnet and epicenter for Nationalism and racism and the East is definitely not a foreign friendly place. A lot of former East Germans have had difficulties adjusting to the West and economically through the years to bring the East up back to West standard it has put a lot of burden and strain on the West, cultural and socially differences still persist. It’ll probably take another 40 years before the East and really assimilate fully into the West, as for giving up on its Nationalistic beliefs, that’s an entirely different story.

vividly remember my optimism for our future, as a result of the events of 1989....... unfortunately, well, the phrase 'hell in a handbasket' slips readily to mind..... but still smiling.....

This marks the 30th anniversary of liberal democratic values trumping conservative, authoritarian values.

What was conservative about the GDR? It was a revolutionary experiment in socialism that had never been seen before in Germany. Let's not distort history to suite a modern political agenda.

Now now boys and girls don't go celebrating too much. There is still a chasm between East & West Germany, and you can't blame communism any more. There is comparatively less social infrastructures now, especially in the East, and the rise in extreme right ideology coupled with terrorism is not something to celebrate.

I personally wouldn't want to be too complacent, especially with Germany's history and tenuous hold on stability. It could turn on a dime.

A very one-sided article imo i.e. 'West/capitalism - good vs East & socialism/communism - bad' (as per Trump's quote). Don't think it was that simple tbh.

Many West German students & middle class had opposed their govts' economic liberalization policies in the 70s & 80s and were very much anti 'establishment/govt' (RAF and other similar groups had millions of sympathizers all across europe). Not saying that a majority of west germans/euros were full-blown communists or envied eastern euros but many were dissatisfied with the way things were going in their country and -rightly or wrongly- believed that 'another' world was possible i.e. left-leaning and/or libertarian rather than capitalist. That's why many western euros had a perhaps bizarre affection for brabant - Lada cars, east euro fashion/symbols or football clubs (i personally loved playing the likes of carl zess jena, dynamo dresden/berlin etc in euro cups in the 80s). Many west germans/euros hated wild-West capitalism & the 'flashy 80s'.

Personally, I always saw the fall of the Berlin wall as a 'let's unite/fight together' moment rather than the triumph of the West/capitalism over the East/communism.

As an aside, it would have been good to read/listen to what the old bloke in the last pic has to say or ask Jens Schmidt to extrapolate on "The team spirit," he said. "It was stronger back then."

the so-called Night of Broken Glass

aka Kristallnacht. no need to anglicise/translate everything.

What was conservative about the GDR? 

I definitely don’t see the GDR system as being anything but another variation of Stalinism, an extension of the system Stalin established in the Soviet Union, akin to the one he established in North Korea, like the one Mao modified to use in China. The system was authoritarian, totalitarian.

That 30 years on there are global leaders pushing to undermine democracies and return to authoritarianism is worrying. Though the global far right movements sometimes use the term ‘conservative’ to describe their beliefs, what they’re pushing is actually just another form of the systems like Stalin forced on eastern Europe and other places, like Italy and Germany had in the 1930s. To me those systems weren’t left or right, liberal or conservative, they were just anti-democratic authoritarianism.

What was conservative about the GDR?

If we define "conservative" as an unwillingness to change, then it is probably fair to describe the governments of the GDR and the Soviet Union as conservative in the latter years of their existence. It doesn't take long to move from radical to conservative once you have power. (Time to read Animal Farm again.)

If we define "conservative" as an unwillingness to change, then it is probably fair to describe the governments of the GDR and the Soviet Union as conservative in the latter years of their existence. It doesn't take long to move from radical to conservative once you have power. (Time to read Animal Farm again.)

It's always nice when people understand that words have more than one meaning.

Chip Star:

This marks the 30th anniversary of liberal democratic values trumping conservative, authoritarian values.

Actually, it marks the 30th anniversary of the collapse of an undemocratic, authoritarian, imperial, warmongering system and the reconstruction of a nation state.

Which is exactly what today's globalists want to reverse in their ambition to destroy nation states and create globalist empires like the EU.

Which is exactly what today's globalists want to reverse in their ambition to destroy nation states and create globalist empires like the EU.

What exactly is a globalist?