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Ariz investigators say there were warning signs on day of shooting

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Good. Thank God for this. She fared much better than the poor judge, who, by the way, was not a Democrat but a Republican appointed by former President Bush (GW).

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I am so surprised at how little is mentioned about the murdered judge, and so much about the injured congresswomen.

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The main reason there are so many follow ups on the congresswoman (it is only one person, it is not congresswomen)is because she is alive and there is progress to report. The judge is dead and very sadly will stay that way. Don't see the mystery.

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Agree with atamant. This article is about the state of one victim's recovery, there is not much point in also writing that one of the dead victims is still dead. If there is information about the judge that is related to the shootings, this isn't the article for it to be in.

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If Loughner somehow escapes the death penalty, could he at least be forced to work his fingers to the bone to help pay for Gifford's medical treatment?

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The warning signs are not all that out of the ordinary (save the "Die bit ch", which was found later). If you locked up everyone who displayed 'warning signs' you'd have a situation which would make Minority Report look like a trip to Disney Land in terms of arresting people for things they did not do.

Heck, I see people doing MUCH crazier things than this all the time in Japan. It's only ever after the fact people say, "I KNEW it! There were so many signs!!"

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Article updated and changed, so previous comment doesn't apply now.

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The warning signs are not all that out of the ordinary (save the "Die bit ch"" about as common as half of Anglos with Heavy Metal music and playstation. oh, wait, he's white, young, kind of a just above the trailer park level, probably listens to heavy metal (or wannabeganster rap), plays Call of Duty and what not, watches horror flicks.

Smith is right.

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Indeed the headline is about the congresswoman's recovery. But the article also mentions:

Meanwhile, the attorney for a 22-year-old loner accused of trying to assassinate Giffords...

Jared Loughner potentially faces the death penalty on charges of trying to kill the Arizona congresswoman...

It seems the entire trial will be about his attempted murder of Giffords and not the actual murder of a top US Federal Judge for the State of Arizona.

From the very beginning, I had the feeling they don't want us to look at his murder. "Hey lets not look at what possible motives he might have had to murder the judge, it must certainly be a coincidence that he was murdered barely 72-hours after he made a critical ruling against the Obama administration's plan to begin the confiscation of their citizen’s private retirement and banking accounts!"

I do wish her a speedy and as complete recovery as possible, but let's not be blinded by it.

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Indeed the headline is about the congresswoman's recovery.

The headline changed. It is right above the article. It is now about the crackpot and warning signs said to have existed on the day of the shooting.

It seems the entire trial will be about his attempted murder of Giffords and not the actual murder of a top US Federal Judge for the State of Arizona.

What the heck are you basing this on? Please stop making this about some secret plot. The article clearly mentions the people kill and this article is not a trial. It is an article.

From the very beginning, I had the feeling they don't want us to look at his murder.

Absolutely ridiculous. It has been mentioned in pretty much every report and in most articles. This one originally focused on the recovery of the congresswoman and has been edited to add new information.

it must certainly be a coincidence that he was murdered barely 72-hours after he made a critical ruling against the Obama administration's plan to begin the confiscation of their citizen’s private retirement and banking accounts

What ruling are you talking about? The one in 2009? That was much more than 72 hours before this crackpot's murderous rampage.

I do wish her a speedy and as complete recovery as possible, but let's not be blinded by it.

I think we should not be blinded by people with strange scenerios to spout like this crackpot Loughner. People like this try to find a conspiracy in everything. We should be careful of people who would readily spout such nonsense.

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Jared Lee Loughner lived at home with his parents, yet the usually voracious news media shows no interest in them. He was very publicly demented, yet no one did anything about it. He gives all appearances of being a drugged out zombie; what drugs was he on, what doctor was treating him, what is the background of his parents - and how did he get to be such a tragically good shot with no apparent training?

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What the heck are you basing this on?

On many things, including the two quotes I provided above, which were also in the initial article.

What ruling are you talking about? The one in 2009?

No, he was presiding judge in a case filed on November 30, 2010; the plaintiff was the United States of America.

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Sabi, for once you've got my interest.

Anyway, as the left vs right seems to be dying down, I think a good look needs to be made in Heavy Metal, movies, and even hard core gangster rap along with PS/XBOX games..... With a weak minded person such as this guy, that could be what set him off

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Video games are great for simulation of death --> but to actually kill someone/something is very difficult. This is why military people are trained to do this. Then you factor in the multiple killings --> people start to question and must assume that he has killed before (animals etc?)

=People can easily see someone shooting a person once, but multiple shots and multiple people are a very complex mental senario

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I wonder when they're going to start classifying the Tea Party as a domestic terrorist organization.

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skipthesong: " I think a good look needs to be made in Heavy Metal, movies, and even hard core gangster rap along with PS/XBOX games..... With a weak minded person such as this guy, that could be what set him off"

It's odd how when you addressed my comment you brought these things up as a point of sarcasm (saying, "oh wait, he's a teenager!"), but then bring it up as something we have to seriously look at here. PS/XBOX games like Call of Duty, which you mention, are incredibly popular due to the fact that so many people, world-wide, play them. Weak minded or not, people can't blame it on video games and rock music any more than middle-aged people blamed Dungeons and Dragons 25 years ago for problematic youths, or old people in the 50s blamed Rock n' Roll.

The guy is nuts, bottom line, and unfortunately he took that to the most extreme point he could and murdered a bunch of people. Looking for any explanation beyond that is just going to leave a bunch of question marks, finger pointing, and frustration.

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Looking for any explanation beyond that is just going to leave a bunch of question marks, finger pointing, and frustration" Well, that's what I am trying to play down.. I've got my sister on the very left fighting with my brother who is in the tea party.... And I'm caught in the middle. I thought the left and right finger pointing stopped at JT, but I was wrong.

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Slowly the truth is emerging. The killer was known to the police. They had visited his house before. He had planned this murder. He smiles in his mugshot because he is crazy, or because maybe his lawyer has informed him the elitist left wing establishment media is determined to pin the murder on their enemies. But it is no longer 1995. they can't control the narrative like they once did.

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Let's recap shall we?

Day the story broke as posted here on J.T Sunday 9 January........

Media writes and duly reports:

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said the rampage ended only after two people tackled the gunman.

“He was definitely on a mission,” said Villec, a former Giffords intern.

The assassination attempt left the three-term congresswoman in critical condition after a bullet passed through her head.

It also left Americans questioning whether divisive politics had pushed the suspect over the edge.

This is right after the shooting and nobody had a clue yet as to who the person was or motive and the media story already throws an implied motive for us "divisive politics".

Story moves along and adds this:

Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.

Okay the cops got the guy and have ID him. Shouldn't be to hard to run his record and see what we got in custody and it'll give us a good idea of what we are dealing with.

Story moves on:

His motivation was not immediately known, but Dupnik described him as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice.

Maybe they did already run the guys record and did know exactly they were dealing with after all.

Story moves on:

The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it occurring in Arizona.

And of course we have to throw Palin into the story now:

Giffords expressed similar concern, even before the shooting. In an interview after her office was vandalized, she referred to the animosity against her by conservatives, including Sarah Palin’s decision to list Giffords’ seat as one of the top “targets” in the midterm elections.

So even before anybody really has a clue well except the Sheriff who knew exactly who he had in custody the story has already told us.....Divisive Politics, Mentally Unstable, vitriolic political rhetoric, conservatives, Sarah Palin and “targets”.

Now todays story:

Sheriff’s deputies had been to the Loughner home at least once before the attack, spokesman said Jason Ogan said. He didn’t know why or when the visit occurred, and said department lawyers were reviewing the paperwork and expected to release it Wednesday.

Oh I bet its going to be a heck of a lot more than once after all the details come out.

Then the story tells us:

Loughner was arrested in October 2008 on a vandalism charge near Tucson after admitting that he vandalized a road sign with a magic marker, scrawling the letters “C” and “X” in a reference to what he said was Christianity. The case was ultimately dismissed after he paid a $500 fine and completed a diversion program.

So he also has a record to go along with the visits to the home by the police, and he had to go through a diversion program which involves counseling. Or to put it another way there is not just short encounters with the police there is a whole slew of paperwork, counselors and evaluators on this guy.

They knew exactly what they had in custody the moment they found out his name. The files were already there at the office to pull up and more than likely thicker than a phone book already and it wasn't about politics, it was about a mental case.

Which if you compare what the cops really knew that day about Loughner and what they allowed to be published, heck abetted it without challenging the information or even trying to calm down the situation but inflame it instead. I just find that sickening. I really do. And the sad part of it is I'm getting all my source information directly from what the media and JT published to back up my opinions on this now.

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"The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it occurring in Arizona."

As far as the quotes I have seen, the sheriff wasn't pointing fingers to the left nor the right. What he said that I saw was right on the money.

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As far as the quotes I have seen, the sheriff wasn't pointing fingers to the left nor the right. What he said that I saw was right on the money.

Sorry Madverts, but he specifically referenced Limbaugh, that points only at the right. The fact that he is a registered Dem, the fact that he repeated these outrageous allegations repeatedly for several days likewise points to things. The Sheriff was trying to use this to blame the right. It was a partisan and stupid thing to do. And it had nothing to do with the shooter, or the story.

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What's stupid molenir is the childsh screaming/mudslinging fest that passes for politics in the US.

I'll take you on your word that he singled out Limbaugh but I hadn't read that. And even so, Limbaugh is a prime instigator of hate, hiding behind hypocrisy so I really don't have a problem with such individuals being shoved into the hate spotlight.

Inciting hate left of right is criminal IMO. And I guess I'm more centre right these days, I wouldn't want those kind of cranks speaking out for me...

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Bah left OR right, I should never have betrayed nokia

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Heh I've jkust seens palin's lates shriekings. Nack on the attack using the incredibly naive "blood libel". Heh, pissing off the Jews was a bad idea sarah, but your decline will be welcomed by the moderates not poisened by your hatred...

I hope JT has prepared the servers, I'm predicting the longest thread so far this year...

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jason6:

I wonder when they're going to start classifying the Tea Party as a domestic terrorist organization.

Napalitano has already tried to do that, along with U.S. soldiers returning from the Middle East.

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I'll take you on your word that he singled out Limbaugh but I hadn't read that. And even so, Limbaugh is a prime instigator of hate, hiding behind hypocrisy so I really don't have a problem with such individuals being shoved into the hate spotlight.

Apparently sharing your opinion with millions of interested listeners, is now inciting hate in your mind. Good thing we're not in Europe, hell most of the rest of the world now criminalizes speech. And not surprisingly, its the lefties that are continuously trying to suppress it here.

Heh I've jkust seens palin's lates shriekings.

Interesting that you refer to what she says as shrieking. Why is it I suspect that for you, anything she says would be shrieking. Imagine if she, in a very calm even tone of voice said... "The sun is shining, and its a beautiful day." Gah! Cover your ears!. lol

Nack on the attack using the incredibly naive "blood libel"

Its a very good term to describe what the left has been doing. Politicizing violent acts is "Blood Libel" Particularly when the acts are committed by a lone nutcase.

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Nah molenir, every statement is an angry attack on someone. This time invoking things that I imagine realyy aren't going to to work in her favour. The woman has nothing going for her, no education, no class. America, at this time of economic decline, needs not this voice.

After the Bush years, and similar screaming, you will allow those of us looking on radicals disparigingly to smirk at cries of "the left" "politicizing" violent acts.

They own keep fear alive.

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Apparently sharing your opinion with millions of interested listeners, is now inciting hate in your mind.

That is exactly what pundits on the left and right do, the tea baggers blah blah blah, the libtards blah blah blah..., it clearly childish and hateful but you're right it's their right to express their opinions. Besides it's not their fault, that their millions of listners (both the extreme left and right) are on the wrong side of the IQ bell curve. The ridculous agruments on both sides are enough to make someone go crazy (perhaps even Loughner).

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Loughner's friend:

“ [Loughner] Did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right.”

What's crazy in all of this is not the rabble and noise of a vibrant democracy, or 24/7 punditry, or citizens seeking too rein in big government. What is crazy is ascribing reasonable motives to the acts of the criminally insane.

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Palin is openly Jew-baiting. The use of "blood libel" appeared in the Wall Street Journal earlier in the week and it was VERY obvious from teh comments there that BLOOD LIBEL will not be condoned for use in any relation to the Jewish community.

She did this on purpose. It is deplorable. Absolutely disgusting.

Agh. And to use it after these Jewish public servants were slain just doubles it.

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"What is crazy is ascribing reasonable motives to the acts of the criminally insane."

To quote Molenir: What are you a psychic? This man has not been declared or diagnosed as insane in any way. We don't know his motives, but we do know he was impressionable... as in "affected by other people's words."... as in "likely to interpret gun sights as a signal to kill someone."

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Blood libel. My head is exploding. If Rush does not jump all over this, he is going to get fired. This is huge.

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as in "likely to interpret gun sights as a signal to kill someone."

That seems to describe criminally insane pretty well.

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"The guy is nuts, bottom line, and unfortunately he took that to the most extreme point he could and murdered a bunch of people. Looking for any explanation beyond that is just going to leave a bunch of question marks, finger pointing, and frustration."

Sorry Smith. Wrong on several counts. THIS is the argument that gun control proponents want to make and good on them, but he did not "murder a bunch of people." He, to use his words, "assassinated" a woman that he knew to be a Jew AND an elected official of the Federal government. He did it for a reason. It was not random. If you forget all the rest, remember that. And no, he is not a bunch of question marks forever and ever. He is question marks until the evidence is gathered and analyzed. Oswald was kept for quite a while before Ruby killed him, and we know NOTHING about the Kennedy assassination. Same thing here.

The press wants to take this to Palin and to gun control, but the story, I think, is still in Tucson. Don't let the press distract you either by telling you that Palin set it all up or that it was totally random. Both are false.

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He did it for a reason. It was not random.

Just because it was not random does not preclude insanity. His reasons seem quite clearly to be those of a crackpot. Quite a bit has already been written about this murderer. It is not nearly the mystery you are trying to make it out to be.

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He, to use his words, "assassinated" a woman that he knew to be a Jew AND an elected official of the Federal government.

She's not dead. In fact, she's recovering.

Don't let the press distract you either by telling you that Palin set it all up or that it was totally random. Both are false.

In two other threads, you certainly seem to make the case that "the right" or Palin set this all up.

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Palin is to be congratulated for reminding us that 200 years ago politicians used to duel with guns and using a term offensive to Jews, when one was the target. Good job!

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There seem to have been plenty of prior warnings, and the people responsible for administering the law failed.

So how will anti-gun laws work?

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Palin is openly Jew-baiting.

This new liberal argument is just plain nuts.

Moderator: Readers, no further references to Sarah Palin on this thread please.

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moa, it's simple carelessness... One can make their points without heightening the rhetoric.

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junnama - OK, I can agree about carelessness, but "Jew-baiting" no.

Anyway, it is irrelevant, as the problem here is that the people who are supposed to administer the laws did not. There were plenty of prior warnings about Loughner, and the police/sheriff chose to disregard them.

As for reporting about the family's beer purchase as seen by a neighbor, their house value, the parent's income and employment history, the AP is doing nothing but gossip. Shoddy reporting AP!

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US politicians are (predictable) shouting about new laws, but is that really necessary? Don´t they have laws on the books that prohibit sales of guns to mental patients? Why don´t they simply enforce them?

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Don´t they have laws on the books that prohibit sales of guns to mental patients? Why don´t they simply enforce them?

Right on.

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Don´t they have laws on the books that prohibit sales of guns to mental patients? Why don´t they simply enforce them?

They do. The killer was known to the authorities. This is why the sheriff's lashing out and his grandstanding and his blaming conservative talk radio has ppl thinking the cops failed the community on this one. This sheriff Dupnick guy may well be looking at the loss of his seat;Arizona law allows for voters to recall a sheriff like this.

When I saw on this site that even Michelle Malkin was being implicated by desperate leftists I decided her website would be a good place to look. She doesn't disappoint. She linked to a local Ariz newspaper - - -

"Sheriff’s Department and community-college officials in Pima County are refusing to release a wide range of public documents about the man charged in Saturday’s shooting rampage that left six dead and more than a dozen wounded.

"The Pima County Sheriff’s Department and Pima Community College have declined to release documents that could shed light on run-ins they had with 22-year-old Jared Loughner in the months prior to the shooting."

"The Arizona Public Records Law requires that records be “open to inspection by any person at all times” unless officials can prove releasing the information would violate rights of privacy or confidentiality or otherwise harm the best interests of the state."

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"Sheriff’s Department and community-college officials in Pima County are refusing to release a wide range of public documents about the man charged in Saturday’s shooting rampage that left six dead and more than a dozen wounded.

"The Pima County Sheriff’s Department and Pima Community College have declined to release documents that could shed light on run-ins they had with 22-year-old Jared Loughner in the months prior to the shooting."

To me, this is more substantive and more telling than a bunch of speculation about gunsights and bullseyes, the market value of the parents' home, etc.

In cases like this, it's not uncommon for there to be warning signs well before the incident. While Dupnik appears to be more a politician than a law enforcement officer, I hope that the Obama administration checks its penchant for party favoritism and not protect Dupnik on this. It's becoming increasingly apparent that six people are dead and 14 are wounded because he intentionally didn't do his job. Loughner is apparently insane, so there are limits to his responsibility for his actions. But incompetence is not afforded the same considerations.

And guess who stood up and applauded when Obama said we shouldn't point blame at others during the memorial/pep rally last night? Sheriff Dupnik. The same man who started blaming political rhetoric and Rush Limbaugh before the blood had dried on the ground.

Disgusting.

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Rush Limpbaugh is a inciter of hate, a hypocrite and an a drug user.

He deserves a lot of the flak, and that's some strange hero you guys have got there...

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Madverts, just because you hate Limbaugh does not mean he incites hate. Unless you want to admit that when you express criticism of a right-wing politician or their policies, that you are trying to incite hatred of them. You can't have it both ways.

I never said Limbaugh is my hero. But he certainly doesn't deserve to be blamed for a shooting committed by someone who never listened to him.

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