world

GOP investigators take aim at health care overhaul

46 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

46 Comments
Login to comment

Politics with honour? Tiger?

That exists?

15 year old Aberlour as we speak. Again, great to read your thoughts.

Thank you Madverts. Politics with honour - I think it existed for a few days anyway. Went the way of the Dodo and honest, real newspaper reporters.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't your freedoms given or atleast protected by to a publicly funded army/police force? My guess would be that you and your children use publicly funded streets to get to work, no? If I drive to my work using a different road, why should I pay for the road you drive to work on? Roads/Army/Police/Firefighters/et al. should all be privately financed, you should have to pay for it all by yourself, right?

This is a stupid, cyclic argument. There is certain infrastructure that is necessary, and I don't mind my taxes going for that. Trouble is they go for a lot of other crap that is ill thought out and just moronic - such as your health care bill. Paying to be protected by the armed forces or having a street to drive on is entirely different than paying for joe blow who doesn't wish to participate in my capitalistic society to lay on his back-side and get free health care. Sorry this offends you.

Being from Canada, I pay for my healthcare though mostly provincal taxes and federal taxes, so my taxes are of course higher but I also know that if I lived in the states paid state, federal taxes and healthcare insurance premiums for my family, I would be paying slightly more per month. Based on living in Houston and New York, as I've turned down contracts to work in both places in the past year because of it.

Without meaning or trying to sound xenophobic at all, how do you know this if you don't live here? I live in NY and our taxes are the second highest I believe behind California. But NY and Houston are (assuming your talking about NYC) larger cities and different animals from a tax perspective than living in many other places in the country. I'll give it to you in Canada that your health care system seems to function a bit better than the European model, but you do pay high taxes and wait a bit longer to be seen by doctors - from what I've read. I lived in upstate NY for a stretch and all the Canadians from Montreal come to the US to buy things for that simple reason.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If you are a capitalist, then you should support everything being privatized. Including the military, I'm sure Xe Services LLC would be kind enough to supply their services to the highest bidder. Using socialized services and then only complaining about ceritan other services being socialized seems a bit logically inconsistent.

There's a difference between capitalism and anarchy, there are also differences between individual capitalists. Smith actually advocated using the state to temporarily subsidize emerging industries, that's where he diverges from laissez faire capitalists. I believe in a minimization of government involvement in private business but I realize it has a time and place. A national military makes sense but it's also important to remember that that national military is supplied by private companies such as General Dynamics, Boeing, and other arms producing corporations that compete for contracts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Over here in Japan.

My Wife had to wait for some time to get her initial cancer MRI, etc(just a few days). Once she got transfered to the NCC all the tests were redone in 2 days.

When I got admitted with my stomach probs at the local ER they had me take a CT within an hour.

Found CT, MRI and X-Ray machines to be common in japan. With many Doctors/Hospitals having their own. And that even includes the open MRI ones for people that hate confines.

Even my GP has an X-ray room.

Another story Son at school somehat dropped from his chair and bumped his head. Big Broohah, took him to doc and was refered to a specialist(goverment approved) and within 20minutes he had a CT done as a 1st-time patient.

So might be a shortage of available hardware more than anything in Canada.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The problem with Canadian healthcare is that you have to wait too long to see specialists or receive special tests. Weeks or months. I had to wait 6 months to get an MRI.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

With the exception of the national military all the others can and have been provided by private firms in the past.

If you are a capitalist, then you should support everything being privatized. Including the military, I'm sure Xe Services LLC would be kind enough to supply their services to the highest bidder. Using socialized services and then only complaining about ceritan other services being socialized seems a bit logically inconsistent.

plus I can go to a doctor that doesn't just throw pills at me.

I've had the same doctor(sports medicine) for the last 10 years, yes I can choose which doctor and what type of speciality s/he has. I've never been prescribed pills, plenty of active release therapy though. Don't live in an Ontario, so I couldn't tell you what healthcare is like there but I live in Calgary, a very affluent city and rarely have I heard of people going to other countries for healthcare, other then for the new MS treatment, which is offered in Mexico but not in the US or Canada.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Unless you think the insurance companies have got their sights set on specific individuals not named "tigermoth" to screw over and deny insurance coverage to, you could be just as likely in need of the bill and its provisions within a year or two.

If an insurance company did nothing buy deny coverage nobody would buy their services, then the company goes out of business. Problem solved. An insurance company can only exist so long as the consumers believe the will be adequately compensated when they require medical coverage.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't your freedoms given or atleast protected by to a publicly funded army/police force? My guess would be that you and your children use publicly funded streets to get to work, no? If I drive to my work using a different road, why should I pay for the road you drive to work on? Roads/Army/Police/Firefighters/et al. should all be privately financed, you should have to pay for it all by yourself, right?

With the exception of the national military all the others can and have been provided by private firms in the past. It's possible that those aspects of our everyday lives could be improved through privatization, unfortunately that kind of experimentation is quite illegal in many states (especially the law enforcement part). And coming from Michigan I can think of no possible way that anybody could do a worse job of maintaining the roads than MDOT.

Based on living in Houston and New York, as I've turned down contracts to work in both places in the past year because of it.

I have a high premium but my deductible is quite nice, plus I can go to a doctor that doesn't just throw pills at me. Oddly enough there are more than a few Ontario plates in the Port Huron office, it's almost as if they don't care for their state plan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Politics with honour? Tiger?

That exists?

15 year old Aberlour as we speak. Again, great to read your thoughts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, I'm a practical monster, a capitalist (wasn't this the system behind our freedoms?)

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't your freedoms given or atleast protected by to a publicly funded army/police force? My guess would be that you and your children use publicly funded streets to get to work, no? If I drive to my work using a different road, why should I pay for the road you drive to work on? Roads/Army/Police/Firefighters/et al. should all be privately financed, you should have to pay for it all by yourself, right?

'the Lord helps those who help themselves'

“I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me"

This bible verse even mentions "I was sick and you looked after me", go figure, it seems to imply the opposite of what you are saying. (I'm guessing then that the bible is self-rightous in your eyes?)

Being from Canada, I pay for my healthcare though mostly provincal taxes and federal taxes, so my taxes are of course higher but I also know that if I lived in the states paid state, federal taxes and healthcare insurance premiums for my family, I would be paying slightly more per month. Based on living in Houston and New York, as I've turned down contracts to work in both places in the past year because of it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ah Madversts I miss the days of a cordial bond of honour made with a firm handshake and perhaps sealed with a drink of good faith. You'd be surprised what a good single malt like Laphroaig can do (and if you haven't tried this do). Were there too many days of politics with honour?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ah, and therein lies a part of the problem. I have good insurance, so I don't need the provisions of the bill. BUT I have to pay for the provisions in the bill.

Correction!! You have good insurance today. You don't need the provisions of the bill today.

Unless you think the insurance companies have got their sights set on specific individuals not named "tigermoth" to screw over and deny insurance coverage to, you could be just as likely in need of the bill and its provisions within a year or two.

I own a small business and currently have one employee -- and expect to hire more in the coming year. The bill enables me as an employer to provide health care benefits and get some tax credits for doing so.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bah good post Tigermoth.

I'm not equipped with enough real knowledge to debate American healthcare being European. All I know is the general consensus is that something had to be done, and Obama has tried his method.

Would a good single malt and firm handshake really have sold it to you?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The bill was designed to provide better access to those who don't have any insurance. If you've already got coverage under a good plan, you don't need the provisions of the bill.

Ah, and therein lies a part of the problem. I have good insurance, so I don't need the provisions of the bill. BUT I have to pay for the provisions in the bill. And likely I have to pay in a multi-faceted way. Most of the democratic elected officials who voted for this legislation likely would have no ideas the ways in which we will pay, as it was shown that most didn't read the bill.

The obvious way is taxes. These won't really kick in until the tenants of the bill get going in a few years. But there will be higher taxes to help pay for this bill.

The second way is increased rates. Can anyone say for certain that my rates will not increase eventually based upon the passage of this bill? I do find it odd that in the past six years I've had this plan it has gone up on average $5 per pay period each year; this one is slated for a $47 increase per pay period. Perhaps no relation, but who can say?

The third is quality of care. You folks like to tout the European models. Fair enough, but I have a lot of friends in Britain and all I hear are horror stories about the tremendous waits for care. Now we can walk into any ER or 'fast track' type of situation and be seen almost immediately. Not so in the European model from what I understand. Yes, our doctors have been highly paid and as a lucrative position, the best and brightest are attracted into the ranks. With a more 'socialized' model this doesn't seem to be the case. Suddenly our 'cutting edge' technology and expertise becomes, well, dulled. One of my closest friends in London just took her mother-in-law to Italy for a surgery she need to save her life; couldn't get it in time in England. Brought her grandson to the States for treatment as the best doctors are here. Hmmm. Interesting that.

So for the good coverage I have, I can pay more, pay more taxes and have crappier medical care. I don't like this, and you wonder why?

But - as a good liberal - you say, you are helping your fellow man who is less fortunate than you! How can you not wish to? What kind of monster are you? Well, I'm a practical monster, a capitalist (wasn't this the system behind our freedoms?)and call me stingy for thinking as such, but more interested in my kids eating and going to school rather than someone else I don't know. In fairness, I doubt that they would put their hard-earned money in my or my child's pocket.

Liberals, and particularly far leaning liberals with a socialist bent (which is very many of you - and it amuses me greatly to hear the howls of protest due to your fear of being labeled as such - c'mon, fess up and don't be ashamed) see the world through their particular brand of rose coloured glasses. The have-nots are all decent, hard working people who just cannot get ahead or get a break, mainly because 'the man' ('evil Republican', white man, rich man, corporate mogul, military imperialist - insert your villain of choice) will not let them do so. They need help and we must save them. There is an old expression about 'the Lord helps those who help themselves' but let's not cloud the issue with an even slightly religious quip. But truly, how many of these people are the 'have nots' from personal choice rather than any ill-doings by the evil 'man', or those who find themselves in such positions due to very poor choices? How many of these 50 million - a number that I too think must be a great exaggeration, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's 50 million then - don't have insurance from personal choice? I can think of few legal jobs that don't offer access to at least some type of reduced cost health coverage. Is it that they cannot afford it, or is it that they cannot afford cartons of smokes and cases of poorly brewed beer that I see flying out of the local convenience stores, purchased by these 'have nots'? Despite what people try to imply, you succumb to addiction, it is not forced upon you. True, once it's there it will not let go. But the initial choice is your own.

So what am I getting at? Do some studies. Tell me how many people don't have health care coverage because they are working hard but just cannot afford to do it. Contrast this with those who won't work, jump on the disability, medicaid, medicare bandwagon, those who just won't pay the price for coverage, etc. etc. I'm not a rich man. I work my arse off for what's in my wallet - which isn't much. I don't take fancy vacations, have expensive cars, and couldn't afford cigarettes even if I chose to be so afflicted. And I'm the average American who you are trying to sell this to. Now you want to take money from my pocket to pay for other folks to have something that I myself pay bi-monthly for. You ram this legislation down my throat without so much as an opening dance, handshake or good shot of whiskey. And you wonder why some want to repeal such legislation. You tell me why I should want this? Telling me it's my social responsibility sounds like so much self-righteous rubbish to me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yeah, don't worry about creating jobs. Just focus on screwing poor people and telling lies (Rand Paul was the first with his flip flop on earmarks for Kentucky). That'll help in 2012.

Taka

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's kind of entertaining if you look at the whole thing without proper context. If I didn't know better I would be inclined to think that the healthcare bill had been crafted by moderate republicans as an insurance subsidy program, it sure gives a nice edge to the health insurance companies. I honestly think that the Republicans are just upset because they weren't able to pass it first.

Republicans will probably just eliminate the mandatory health insurance and a couple other aspects that several states have already challenged in addition to striking some of the Medicare revamps. I doubt that they'll add very much or alter it in any profound way.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Priority should be jobs. Do that first."

Instead of partisan wrangling? Proposterous my friend ;)

Listening to JT's radical conservative's, I'm sure if the economy/un-employment misery isn't sorted for this weekend then they'll have fettled all American woes by the back-end of next week. I mean, it's not like my attention span can hold out any longer....and christ, did I mention how much I hate Obama?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Priority should be jobs. Do that first.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Medical professionals have taken a huge hit in earnings - thanks to all the outrageous lawsuits of the sort that financed the rise and political dreams of frauds like John Edwards. Edwards made millions as a lawyer using junk science to wipe out the careers of doctors, obstetricians in particular.

You know their argument is lost when they resort to ludicrous statements like the one above.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Again - no one here can answer this: If ObamaCare is so good why did the Dems who crafted the 2000 page bill exempt themselves and their relatives from the compulsory enrollment the rest of us will face?

Oh, the feebleness of mind that comes up with such questions.

The bill was designed to provide better access to those who don't have any insurance. If you've already got coverage under a good plan, you don't need the provisions of the bill.

The bill that was passed is not very different from the one that the Republicans offered in 1993 and again in 1996, as part of the Republican platform led by Bob Dole.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I suppose I would have more respect for their 'opinions' if they were to acknowledge - or give any indication they are even aware - that it is the US who far and away leads the world in medical innovation

Innovation in medical procedures and technology is vastly different from the delivery of health care to ordinary people.

Just as there have been great advances in electrical generating technology, the best means for delivering electricity to humanity has been through regulated, and often publicly-owned utilities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A majority of states are now prepared to contest the constitutionality of ObamaCare.

Unfortunately for most of the people on this thread the issue will be settled in an American court.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Only conservatives could screw up a good thing.

Next, they'll be voting for idiots who screwed them last time.

Ooops! The've just done that. :-)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Republicans bring shame to America. We have finally begun to help the uninsured and Republicans want to take it away from them. 50 million without health insurance is a disgrace. The Republicans plan on disobeying the law. Then they want the corrupt Supreme Court come to their rescue like they always have; at least the corrupt Republican installed justices.

that financed the rise and political dreams of frauds like John Edwards. Edwards made millions as a lawyer using junk science to wipe out the careers of doctors, obstetricians in particular.

Wow is this far fetched. Is it wrong for repubs to tell the truth on JT? It seems so.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Are they going to start debating this issue again and avoid making real progress for the American people?

TimR,

The American people should be asked what they want. If they say they want proper healthcare then they should get it. Case closed. Isn`t that true democracy?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TimR - "SS3, you have never administered a "beat down", not when the topic is the US."

Heh, your denial grows stronger by the day. :-)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What people also forget. USA medical(from an outsider point) is very expensive and I doubt that the people(doctors, pharmaceuticals, etc) will drop the prices and take a cut in their own purses.

You could not be more misinformed. Medical professionals have taken a huge hit in earnings - thanks to all the outrageous lawsuits of the sort that financed the rise and political dreams of frauds like John Edwards. Edwards made millions as a lawyer using junk science to wipe out the careers of doctors, obstetricians in particular.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And TimR, in a moment of blind panic when he realizes his argument is getting a beat down,

SS3, you have never administered a "beat down", not when the topic is the US.

Again - no one here can answer this:

If ObamaCare is so good why did the Dems who crafted the 2000 page bill exempt themselves and their relatives from the compulsory enrollment the rest of us will face?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why can't people get the same health care coverage that the senators have?

I love my Japanese health care.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And TimR, in a moment of blind panic when he realizes his argument is getting a beat down, brings out the 'You're not American so how can you possibly have a valid opinion?' card. That's a surrender flag if there ever was one, and sadly, not unexpected. To add to my last post - one of the benefits of providing more coverage is that it will encourage Joe Smith to get a pain in his stomach checked out today rather than leaving it until he needs a critical $50,000 taxpayer-funded operation to treat it next year. Prevention, as the saying goes, is better than cure. And way cheaper. What is wrong with the government providing a structure to 1/ enable more people to afford healthcare and subsequently remain healthier for longer thereby lowering potential long-term healthcare burdens, 2/ keep people healthy, and 3/ encourage people to seek treatment when problems are minor rather than major? TimR, are you opposed just because it's 'unfair!'? Do I need to pass you a tissue? Time to expand your mental horizon. This world isn't just all about you.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Agree wtih Sushisake3.

Some people here whine about social medical but it does a good job for the day-to-day illnesses and medical needs. It is designed to keep you healthy not care for your vanity needs like pearly whites, etc. That should come from your own pocket.

For bigger stuff a good top-up scheme/extra coverage is recommended and available.

Most here will know about the sickness that took my wife and we had good overage here, etc.

What people also forget. USA medical(from an outsider point) is very expensive and I doubt that the people(doctors, pharmaceuticals, etc) will drop the prices and take a cut in their own purses.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

effects on communities containing individuals who have healthcare debts they can't afford or can't pay

So, if you have healthcare debts you can't pay, then because you have the debt, wouldn't that mean you have received healthcare?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TimR, I've worked in and outside the health insurance industry and seen very clearly that health insurance is great - if you can afford it. If you can't and you suddenly need high-cost surgury, what do you do if you can't pay? It seems conservatives can't care less. But they will suddenly like it when a condition they have that was turned down for treatment last year is accepted this year. You're not considering the detrimental social and emotional effects on communities containing individuals who have healthcare debts they can't afford or can't pay. I'm talking about conditions getting worse due to postponed treatment leading to greater long-term costs, bankrupted families, suppressed earning power due to untreated sickness, I could go on. The 'me first!' attitude of some is sickening in its own right imo.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why you cannot get that when people around the world notices that America's healthcare is among the most expensive in the world (even more than Europe).

I live in Japan, among expats.And having done so for quite a while I no longer particularly care what people think of my country.Most - and I mean close to 99 percent - can't get beyond the caricature fed them by the media where they are from or beyond the pic they get from Japan.

I suppose I would have more respect for their 'opinions' if they were to acknowledge - or give any indication they are even aware - that it is the US who far and away leads the world in medical innovation, and there is absolutely no refuting the fact that it was our free market system that brought those advances to market and to your doctor's clinic, despite the obstacles of mounting bureaucracy and costs (a result of malpractice suits) mostly the fault of Democrat allies and the Dems' biggest donors - lawyers.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Many choose not to buy"

Or maybe it is too expensive!

Why you cannot get that when people around the world notices that America's healthcare is among the most expensive in the world (even more than Europe).

If you cannot see this, then....whatever.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Of course, you would deny it.

I was without insurance for long stretches. Many young Americans choose not to buy. People between jobs are, unfortunately, often w/o insurance. I have been there, too. Dems inflate the number by adding the 12 to 20 millions Mexicans in our country illegally. Everyone knows the system is broken, what we disagree on is the remedy. Democrats are using this crisis to cement power and remake America into something closer to the socialist model they are in thrall to.

We need tort reform. We need consumer choice. We need competition - let people buy across state lines. Let the free market - the same market that has brought you a range of affordable choices on a life-changing product unimaginable even a decade ago (the cell phone/ smart phone) and reduced prices by a factor of one hundred - do what it does best.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And you are imagining that practically every American has insurance when they do not because it is too expensive and rejects people because of pre-existing conditions.;

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm asking because it seems you'd much rather slam the door in their faces.

I have worked in US hospitals. It has changed since I did so but I know the reality far better than you or people like fruitbasketfan. As usual, you are only debating with figures in your imagination. Obamacare is not only being rejected by conservatives libertarians and independents. As has been repeatedly pointed out here not a single Democrat candidate in the most recent election ran on his/her record of support for what was rammed down our throats.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yeah right.

Of course, you would deny it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

50 million Americans are without health care

Complete lie, fabricated "stat". 12 million of that number are not even American.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TimR....you cannot be serious.

50 million Americans are without health care and is among the most expensive which rejects people with pre-existing conditions (whereas Europe's care is affordable and does not generally reject people just because of pre-exisiting conditions).....it amazes me how the Republicans do not care about this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Americans on JT have boasted about how much foreign aid sends overseas

Don't you mean to say "some" Americans?

Moderator: Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TimR, your first post didn't make sense. And as an American who is too afraid to hold out a hand to those who don't quite - apparently - have it as good as you do, you're a poster child for why the rich-poor gap keeps getting wider. Americans on JT have boasted about how much foreign aid sends overseas. Are you not MORE concerned about aiding your own people? Or do they just not figure in your mental calculus? And before you start predictably lashing out and labeling me a socialist, consider this, because a lot of the angst behind this debate is ideological: you've got a roof, presumably a comfy job and clearly enough time and money to lounge around in front of a keyboard most of the day - isn't your heart big enough to help out your less fortunate fellow citizens? I'm asking because it seems you'd much rather slam the door in their faces.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Investigators and Repubs with oversight need look no further than our Constitution, which has nothing in it that enables the federal gov't, upon threat of imprisonment, to force citizens to purchase health care, and as part of a scheme which violates the principles of free association a democracy is founded upon - in that I am penalized for my health and productivity and forced to subsidize another, a complete stranger; and if the traitors who comprise our Democrat Party have their way I will have to furnish health care for illegal aliens.

Tea parties ain't over just cuz we got a majority elected...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm guessing it'll take only 6 months max before conservatives and independents who voted GOP realize they've been sucker punched.

Arguing with yourself again.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Health care in Japan much better than USA,may be USA should follow Japan systems. US is huge land area,access to good healthcare don't reach the people as easily ,as well connected small land size Japan.

US has to define health care separately for all states. Health care systems in rich california,texas and richer states may be better than the poorer states. Obama needs to do more for health care in the poorer states in USA,where less being spent on healthcare.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The GOP appears hellbent on doing everything in their power except what Americans want them to do - create jobs.

I'm guessing it'll take only 6 months max before conservatives and independents who voted GOP realize they've been sucker punched.

Too late.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites