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Greek PM urges 'No' vote to 'live with dignity in Europe'

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Looks like Greece is headed for default and leaving the Euro-zone and perhaps the EU.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Say "No!" to those who have paid your pensions for the past few years. Say "No!" to those who have paid the salaries of Greece's public sector for the past few years. Say "No!" to those who gave us billions of euros so that we can have jobs and put food on our tables, and then have the audacity to require us to not only find a way to support ourselves, but to actually repay the billions of euros we promised to repay!

Tsipras will go down in history as one of the world's least-competent heads-of-state. But perhaps this will open people's eyes about the dangers of creating a state whose economy is based upon public sector economic activity (government spending). And also it should be a lesson to those who use democracy as a tool to buy votes with the money of others, as is currently done in every other developed country.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@YuriOtani

That's too simple a conclusion to reach at this point. Donald Tusk, EU president, just yesterday said even a NO vote doesn't mean Greece has to leave. It's all in flux now, but let's hope that the money masters won't scare the Greek people into an undignified existence. There are enough working poor in places where the financial elites have labour on the run--50% in the US and 40% in Japan.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Live with dignity? You broke son!.More like in the streets or as a banana republic if the people say no.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Dignity? According to reports the food and medicines will run out in a few days, where the dignity of starving to death?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

One of the techniques countries use when in economic difficulty is to weaken their currency, as Japan and South Korea did, for example. Greece currently is stuck with a relatively strong currency, the Euro which they cannot devalue. A currency should be in balance with the economy. The Euro would work best if all the member economies are of equal strength. But now there is a large difference between member economy strength and the Euro is essentially in balance with Germany's economy. Germany is not going to agree to weaken the Euro so that Greece can attract investment, increase tourism and increase exports.

Perhaps, at this point, it makes sense for Greece to leave the European Union and go back to a weakened drachma to gain this investment, increased manufacturing output and greater tourism. It also reduces the control that their European Union creditors have over them which would strengthen Greece's position in negotiating with them.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

But perhaps this will open people's eyes about the dangers of creating a state whose economy is based upon public sector economic activity (government spending).

Greece's problems were not caused by the public sector. They were caused by foolishly joining the Euro and giving up their ability to control their currency and interest rates and devalue their currency. And the same problems that in Greece exist in Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland, only with much bigger amounts of money involved. Countries that were good little boys and kept public spending cut to the minimum as they were told to do by their masters.

Blaming Greece's problems on the usual propaganda talking points about the weaknesses (both real and imagined) in the economy is like having a flimsy house that falls down in an earthquake, and blaming the house for the earthquake. But then as somebody once sang, "Living is easy with eyes closed".

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Wish I understood what the devil is going on here. Any suggestions?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Black Sabbath, it's all Greek to you as well?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And also it should be a lesson to those who use democracy as a tool to buy votes with the money of others, as is currently done in every other developed country.

Ah, Sangetsu03. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Yes, like the Koch brothers are NOT buying the US election, and NOT sponsoring almost EVERY SINGLE republican, but when poor people do it, why the sky is FALLING. The whole purpose of government is to take money from one group of people and to spend it, or to give it to another group. Sadly, in the past 20 years, it has been in the US (and recently in Japan) taking money from the poor (reduced salaries, increased taxes, decreased benefits, etc, etc) and moving that money to the rich, which is why Bernie Sanders is going to be the next president as people are sick and tired of this nonsense.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Tsipras is doing what every decent ruler should do, let the people decide their own destiny. It is called democracy. World money mongers are against it because they want to squeeze the blood out of Greeks, They got the country in to this position by pumping money in to the hands of previous governments. Meanwhile while the Troika dictated the way the country is governed Greece went deeper and deeper in to the abyss. All mayor manufacturing was moved out to other countries and unemployment tripled. Greek pensioners paid during their working lives in to the pension fund but that money was stolen by the previous governments and the large percent of the upper middle class and the wealthy tax evaders. I just see no other way for them now than to default on all the loans and start living by their own means under their own government.Foreign troika dictatorship showed that they cant resolve the problem without starving the population to get their interest money.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Yesterdays IMF publication of Greece: Preliminary Draft Debt Sustainability Analysis, lays bare that EU, ECB, Angela Merkel, and Nicolas Sarkozy French President 2007 - 2012 set about to cynically and purely for political national self interest shore up the glaring fundamental financial and economic flaws inherently built into ERM/EMU, and the single currency.

A succession of Greek Prime Ministers George A. Papandreou, Lucas Papademos, Panagiotis Pikrammenos, and Antonis Samaras were then held to ransom with a succession of threats and ultimatums to sign bailout agreements that were not only unsustainable, but actually compounded and subsequently multiplied those debts many times over.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is the living breathing example of the fool in King Lear...... Yes vote - 'And my poor fool is hanged' a No vote, to quote Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus 'Hell hath no limits, nor is circumscribed in one self place; but where we are is hell, and where hell is, there must we ever be'........

European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker on Friday said Greece’s negotiating position would be “dramatically weakened” if a ‘No’ prevailed. He added that even if the ‘Yes’ vote wins, there would still be “difficult” negotiations ahead

The IMF has blown the whistle on this shameless charade, on this mirage of support that is just camouflage to hide meddling, that ultimately can only be construed as a utter contempt for the democratic process of elected government.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Black Sabbath:

Read Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

NO = freedom YES = slavery

unsurprisingly, the unelected Euro and IMF politicians are pressuring for YES.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

sangetsu03 Say "No!" to those who have paid your pensions for the past few years. Say "No!" to those who have paid the salaries of Greece's public sector for the past few years.

Before entering EU Greece had not such a huge financial problems.

Before Greece had a excellent shipbuilding industry, before EU they have developed agriculture...

After EU - only huge debts...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I think for many people in Greece, they would be OK with the lower standard of living if they could get rid of the dependence on bankers (not all of course but many).

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Hi Olegek, Hope you and your family are well.

There is a multitude of issues relating to the Greece drama unfolding we can agree on,. in all honestly had these ship builders paid there taxes in conscience to the treasury, the government would have more ammo to negotiate a agreement , never the less I do agree with your sentiment.

By the way your opinions on President Putins take on the crisis would be greatly appreciated, the RT view from Moscow?.

Plus political media view to Greek offers of a Mediterranean port?,,,, The subject must have cropped up in the media. :

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Gaijin Dailleult:

" Greece's problems were not caused by the public sector. They were caused by foolishly joining the Euro and giving up their ability to control their currency and interest rates and devalue their currency. "

I´d give you a thousand thumbs up if I could. Why do so many people studiously ignore this basic point? And in addition, ignore that fact EXACTLY this situation was predicted by all the early Euro critics already before the Euro introduction 15 years ago.

Everybody with their eyes open could see the train wreck at the end, but politicians and banker chose to ignore it (and still do). What is this... collective blindness?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What is Tsipras' plan if he gets his "no" vote?

If he wants Greece to continue using the Euro he can do that, but he will not be able to get any more loans and will be forced to balance the budget immediately. Thus, he will have to make the cuts he said he wouldn't make. This could be good for Greece in the long run in forcing them to live within their means, but in the short term it will be harsh.

The alternative is to issue a new currency and carry on as before with tax avoidance and extravagant spending.

Which will Tsipras choose?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is a sad time in which banks now RULE and see countries as a means of making gigantic profits. This is done in collusion with crass politicians who will make any kind of deal and sign any kind of "loan." Once the pain starts, they are LONG gone. (Read Abe). We have to realize that this all about making the rich, richer, and the poor, poorer. Was the IMF demanding higher taxes on the rich of Greece? No. Anything but!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Scrote:

" The alternative is to issue a new currency and carry on as before with tax avoidance and extravagant spending. Which will Tsipras choose? "

A new currency of course, which would give Greece an economy back immediately. And yes, the bankers would take their haircut, which is why they Euro politcians are so despearately trying to influence the vote in favour of "yes".

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It seems to work out for Iceland. Go through bankruptcy, nationalize the banks, put the bank CEOs in jail, start over. They had a rough couple of years but it's worked out and now they are on the other side of it. Only a national government can support its people and leaving the EU is fine if real responsibility is to be created

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@itsonlyrockandroll"the RT view from Moscow"

Strange, how often western people like to stick label of "RT view" on every independent opinion.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hi yamashi, your view unlabeled irrespective of RT, not necessarily from Moscow, just your opinion.....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

itsonlyrocknroll Hi Olegek, Hope you and your family are well.

Hi thank you - all goes well.

There is a multitude of issues relating to the Greece drama unfolding we can agree on,. in all honestly had these ship builders paid there taxes in conscience to the treasury,

The Greece had independent, working economy before EU. Debts were not so high. Normal soth-Europe country.

By the way your opinions on President Putins take on the crisis

Fortunately it's not Putin's problem. But of course if Greece will need some humanitarian aid Russia will help.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The Greek finance minister referring to Greece's creditors as terrorists just shows his lack of intelligence and understanding of the situation. Using scare tactics is the last resort of a politician who has nothing to say.

I have sympathy with the poor in Greece, but I'm just fed up with the xenophobia and hate coming from many Greeks towards anyone that isn't them, (the xenophobia towards Germany is particular is breathtaking) but still expect these 'terrorists' to bail them out and write off their debts. Greece is willfully failing to take responsibility for their part in this crisis and shun reform.

Greece can do what they like, my sympathy has gone. Cut them loose.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Fortunately it's not Putin's problem. But of course if Greece will need some humanitarian aid Russia will help.

Do you really think Russia's autistic dictator will be offering "humanitarian aid"?

Apart from small problem of the Russian economy also teetering on the brink of collapse, were Putin to meddle in this it would only be to further his expansionist designs.

Let's face it, Russia has allowed the carnage in Syria to happen and the only "aid" has been a flow of arms to Assad and opposition to UN intervention.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The whole purpose of government is to take money from one group of people and to spend it, or to give it to another group.

This way of thinking is exactly why Greece is in such dire condition. It is why much of the West has such large debt problems. Every country that turns to socialism will eventually face the same self-induced debt disaster.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This guy is a class A Muppet and the Greek economy is truly pathetic.

If you want dignity, do the following:

Start paying proper taxes. Stop retiring at 55 and bludging off the state. Pay your debts!!!!!!!

This story saga is a joke.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Every country that turns to socialism will eventually face the same self-induced debt disaster.

Maybe you've never heard of Canada?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@JerryL Jul. 04, 2015 - 08:39AM JST

Perhaps, at this point, it makes sense for Greece to leave the European Union

Before EU and Euro was founded, Greece has defaulted many times in history.

After the formation of the modern Greek state in 1829 the country went on to default on its debts in 1843, 1860 and 1893.

Whether Greece has joined EU or Euro or not, it will be struggled to balance the budgets.

http://www.historytoday.com/matthew-lynn/greek-economics-drachmas-debt-and-dionysius

and go back to a weakened drachma to gain this investment

Even Greece weakening drachma, it will still not gain much investment because it is small market. It is lacking competitiveness. Attracting investment not only needed lower currency but also higher productivity, lower salaries and wages, reliable supply chain, strategic location and talented and skilled workforce.

when in economic difficulty is to weaken their currency, as Japan and South Korea did,

Greece lacks the technical prowess unlike Japan and South Korea. Weakening currency alone will not lift the export volume for strengthening economy. Greece should be like China in 1980s for lowering wages of labors and increasing productivity.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hi Olegek I am not sure if independence, in the true sense of the meaning is politically desirable, failing to understand the purpose of friendship is a path to a life of solitude and bitterness. I don't believe any European state/country has prospered though a independent political system of government. Economic and political stability can only be achieved thought diplomatic engagement.

I hear from time to time gossip, for want of a better word, that President Putin is prepared to offer a short term 'loan' to Greece in return for 'political solidarity' in Eastern Europe and possible access to a Mediterranean port? Your thoughts, clearly there is the opportunity, RT does then to trumpet possibly areas of further government policy, to gauge public opinion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This way of thinking is exactly why Greece is in such dire condition. It is why much of the West has such large debt problems. Every country that turns to socialism will eventually face the same self-induced debt disaster.

Wolfie, do you not KNOW economics. So, taking money from the rich is "socialism" (like how your elementary, and high school education was paid for) but if the rich enacts laws to take the money from the poor, well, that is just fine? But, in history, that model has been the default one. Look at Kansas and scott walkers little right-wing Amercian Somalia and tell me how those states are working out. HUGE deficits, huge unemployment, and a LOT of corruption and fascism, with Brownback threatening his own judiciary to follow and uphold ANY law he passes or else.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Madverts"Russia's autistic dictator"

@Elizabeth Heath "his lack of intelligence"

@Tamarama "This guy is a class A Muppet".

So many angered posts from western people and direct insults to those, who dare rise voices against American and EU policy. It proves that Greeks are just on right track.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@yamanishi. You think Greece isn't a western people or culture? They are a part of Europe and part of the EU. If they don't like the policies then they can leave. They certainly liked the money they were given.

You have little grasp of whats going on and know even less about Greece.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

So many angered posts from western people

Please don't confuse facts for anger.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It proves that Greeks are just on right track.

Read an article from a man who wrote a book on the Greek crisis. He states in his article how the residents on one island are according the statistics 90% blind. They claim this disability so that they can money for thier disabilty, and yet the government doesn't put 2+2 together to figure out that there are still drivers on the same island renewing their license. Or how homes will have at least on part of the roof not completed and showing the steel support rods simply because under Greek law, you pay the property taxes on finished buildings (if you even bother to pay in Greece at all) or how in some of the most affluent areas in Athens, doctors are reporting their income at the poverty level so that they don't have to pay taxes, or get subsidies.

Greece did this (a large portion of it) to themselves. People there don't pay their taxes (not talking about the 1% but everyone) or contribute to help them fund their own selves. It is said only the foolish pay for the subway tickets in Athens since they don't take tolls but rely on the honor system, so how is that going to pay for itself?

It is a sad state, and yet the people keep electing the people who enact laws, or don't enforce them as long as they "get theirs" and this is what you have.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This guy Alexis Tsipras is coward. He doesn't want to take responsible if Greek exited from EU or cutting Pension. So he goes for bill out referendum instead of deciding on bill out condition. Greek peoples have elected him to sort out country problems but he turns to peoples to decide it.

Also Alexis Tsipras was calling for its creditors to write off some of Greek debts. I was wondering about whether the International creditors are daring to loan more money to Alexis Tsipras Government or they will say "sorry, we have enough of your game". Greek Government has no money to run the nation. If Greek leftist Government does not accept austerity and bill-out condition impose by International creditors and then Greek Government has to print out its own money.

Greek will never pay back its International creditors under leftist Alexis Tsipras Government. Currently Greek owes 323 Billion Euros as JT said and IMF said Greek will need another 40 Billions Euros for next two years. There’s no way Greek can pay back all the money it’s borrow from international creditors. Look at Argentina as example. I’m very sorry for Greek peoples but the Government was elected by them. Greek will be better off by going bankruptcy.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

ChopChop:

" This guy Alexis Tsipras is coward. He doesn't want to take responsible if Greek exited from EU or cutting Pension. So he goes for bill out referendum instead of deciding on bill out condition. Greek peoples have elected him to sort out country problems but he turns to peoples to decide it. "

No, he is an expert in game theory, and right now it looks like he is winning. He puts pressure on the EU politicians to cut Greek debt (and in effect make Germany pay Goldman Sachs et all for the loans that Greek took), and still stay in the Euro, meaning that the same game continues and next year we are back to where we are now, only with a vastly highter Greek debt, which then once again will have to be paid by Germany, and so on.

He correctly states that the solution to the problem (a Greek Euro exit) would be painfull, and of course the Greek electorate would be prefer to be paid in Euros rather than in weak Drachmas. But the European politicians are scared of a Greek exit, because it would demonstrate to everyone that there is life after the Euro, so regardless of "Yes" or "No" it looks ever more likely that Greece will stay in the Euro, and its debt will be transferred to the Northern countries.

In effect, he is playing chicken with Merkel et al, and winning.

The only players who are smiling from ear to ear are the big financial institutions.

And all of this was predicted to a tee by the early Euro critics.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tsipras is doing what every decent ruler should do, let the people decide their own destiny. It is called democracy.

It's a little bit late for that. In a democracy the people choose their leaders. Leaders who govern the country, who represent the people, who steer the ship. The ship is now rudderless. Whose responsibility is that?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Every country that turns to socialism will eventually face the same self-induced debt disaster.

Maybe you've never heard of Canada?

Canada only proves the power of petroleum to paper over the deficiencies inherent in socialism. They are simply a better managed version of Venezuela. Even the Russians are able to use their petrol-dollars to keep their economy afloat despite their territorial acquisition binge and oligarchic economic system.

Greece has proven that a nations cultural work ethic has a huge influence on the sustainability of socialism. The diminution of the work ethic is the fatal feature of socialism. Without the use of coercion or extreme cultural unity, it is impossible to get anyone but the ideologically motivated to work hard for the benefit of someone else. That is just an immutable aspect of human nature that the Greeks, and socialists everywhere, continue to deny. Only when all individuals can gain a benefit for their hard work - as opposed to allowing bureaucrats to retire at a relative young age to live off a generous pensions provided by what is left of the private economy - will things turn around for Greece. Unfortunately, their cultural sense of entitlement will keep them from accomplishing that.

Greece, Puerto Rico, and American cities like Detroit are warning signs that should not be ignored.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, he is an expert in game theory, and right now it looks like he is winning.

WilliB, Alexis Tsipras was former Communist Party member and he was leader of Left-wing Green movement leader. There's no rich EU members are keen to attract Greece to stay in EU and given more money to Greece except German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Leftist politician will think with left-wing socialist ideology. Alexis Tsipras was calling for to write off some of Greek debt from International Creditors. Majority of Greek creditors are EU members and European Central Bank (ECB). Greek Government owes 56 B Euros to Germany alone. Greece total debt was 360 B Euros in 2012 and Greece financial situation doesn't improve at all.

If Greek Government wants its creditors to write off some of its debt and then Greek needs to show its Government is seriously want to reform its economy management and stop big spending on pension and others.

By the way, Alexis Tsipras wasn't playing game with his country's creditors and he was panicking on current Greek situation. Alexis Tsipras is coward and he doesn't want to take responsible for future of Greece as Prime Minister.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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