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© Copyright 2017 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.Group sees '18 tax cuts across all incomes, biggest for rich
By ALAN FRAM WASHINGTON©2025 GPlusMedia Inc.
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Tommy Jones
MAGMA for the rich because they need the economic assistance. Disgraceful.
bass4funk
Interesting, a one sided point of view article and opinion. Sad.
Tokyo-Engr
@Bass - I agree with you that the article and opinion are a bit one sided, however there is some truth to what is said here. Generally I am for tax cuts and reduced (or more efficient) government spending. The bill does favor (way too much I believe) large corporations and the wealthy and is going to hurt small businesses (especially those with "S Corporations", which are the majority of small businesses).
I would concede that some of the points in the plan are good; especially encouraging companies repatriating profits made overseas is one I think is going to help the U.S. and I think this one aspect of the plan will help create jobs.
In the end, however, I think the plan falls short in several regards as it does not simplify the tax code enough, gives too much to very large corporations and the super wealthy, and eliminating the requirement to participate in the Affordable Care Act is the wrong move (and I am against the Affordable Care Act as it has caused premiums to skyrocket).
I do not think this is a good plan.
CrazyJoe
52 Senators, a majority of the House, the President and his Vice President, are in complete agreement in torpedoing the financial health of the American majority, blowing a hole in the federal deficit, for the sake of rewarding those who have had the good fortune to be worth a fortune. Is there a concealed hunger in America for this offensive tax legislation? The senseless smiles plastered across the self-satisfied faces of Mitch McConnell, Paul, Ryan, Donald Trump, and their ilk, are unmistakably telling. As representatives, they have misrepresented, they have lied, they have pilfered from the working class, and they couldn’t be happier. This is a tough one to swallow and harder to digest.
bass4funk
Thanks for your concern, but the article doesn't have to agree with my point of view, I'm just saying it would be nice if JT could show an alternate opposing view. If they reversed it, it would seem you wouldn't be happy with an alternate point of view as well. Just sayin.....
But the Dems already did that with $17 Trillion why weren't you outraged over the last 8 years? Why do you not support cutting spending during those years?
Yes, the left do paint a picture of doom and gloom, but math isn't something Democrats are good at, otherwise they would have been fiscal......oh, never mind.....
This is a good thing down the road, they Dems did the same thing under Reagan and thank God the GOP didn't listen to the Dems then and Reagan was right.
mmwkdw
When you're Rich, you don't want to give away your money, when you're Poor, you wish someone would give you some, or a chance to be Rich.
Tommy Jones
This oft-repeated falsehood is still false. The total US debt is about $19 trillion, but you seem to think it was all amassed under Obama. Only $9 trillion was added during Obama's two terms. And, we know not all of it is attributable to Obama because the bills for Bish's wars came due under Obama.
Says a crazy, clearly corrupt con who thinks $9 trillion equals $17 trillion. ROFL! Kuddos!
Not quite,
Simon Foston
bass4funkToday 09:12 am JST
Not going to try to present another point of view? Probably just as well. "Math isn't something Democrats are good at"? Making coherent, persuasive arguments in proper English isn't something you're good at.
Hooray for the GOP, eh? Forgotten again that you supposedly hate both parties equally?
bass4funk
What, another stupid ad hominem attack. ROFL Ok, so what else besides that do you have?
Black Sabbath
Yesterday (Sunday) I stopped by my local public library to drop off some materials I had borrowed. It was shortly before 12:30. At the locked front door, a middle schooler was peering through the tinted glass. Her father was standing near by. She said to him:
"THe library is only open from 1;00 to 5:00 today."
"What kind of library is only open from 1:00 to 500 pm?" He replied
I jumped in "You want more library hours? Pay more taxes. And vote Democrat."
He look pissed.
What can I say? Republicans want public services, but only the ones they use and don't want to pay for it.
bass4funk
No, I said, he left a $17 Trillion debt.
That's the problem with the left, for them supposedly $9 Trillion is chip change. Smh. Bless them.
And now Trump took over the massive $17 Trillion that Obama left.
Very much so.
Tommy Jones
Anyone who uses phrases like "looney liberal" engages in ad hominem attacks.
Tommy Jones
Black: Brilliant!
Strangerland
So it's all Trump's fault. Thank you. At least you're finally being consistent.
bass4funk
So calling "Crazy, clearly corrupt conservative kittycats" that's a warm-hearted term used to describe your conservative friends?
By the way, I didn't attack Simon personally, so big difference. If he wants to talk about conservatives in general, no problem, make it personal, it becomes a problem.
No, not at all. I just said, he's left holding Obama's ball, the same way Obama was left with GW's ball.
Tommy Jones
Nope:
Anyone can go back and read your other posts in which you blame Obama for the entire debt.
Thats the problem with the right, they constantly put words in others' mouths. Nobody ever said $9 trillion was chump change. Crazy, clearly corrupt cons, however, constantly whinge about the debt and then claim $1 trillion is chump change. ROFL. Bless them. Good lord. SMH.
So you agree that Obama wasn't responsible for that entire amount?
Tommy Jones
No. Its a direct response to your constant use of disparaging terms for the left.
Progress!
bass4funk
Oh yes, indeed.
For adding to it, yes, I said it!
The left made a career out of it, CNN, msnbc, NYT, Hollywood they put their foot in their mouths as well as daily making things up for the mere pleasure of clickbait.
You didn't, but the Democrats for 8 years didn't care, didn't do anything or even tried to do anything about it, they were just content with the status quo of everything.
So it's a personal ad hom attack then. Wow! Well, that clarifies a lot. LOL
Tommy Jones
No, you have said multiple times:
or things to that effect. Anyone can easily understand the implication is the democrats are responsible for the entire amount. Only after you were corrected did you start speaking accurately/claiming otherwise. Nice try. Oh my! Kuddos. ROFL.
No.
Nope.
This does nothing to address the fact that Crazy, clearly corrupt cons constantly distort facts and claim other's say things that have never been said.
Google "Fox News retractions" or "Fox News truthfulness" to see how your "sources" fair.
If you say so.
It's using a play straight from your playbook. ROFL! I'm so rich that I'm always correct. I live in . . . wherever I need to claim to live in order to bolster my argument. Good lord. Bless them. SMH.
Tommy Jones
Here is some light reading for anyone that would like to gain an understand of the US' debt vis-a-vis various presidents.
https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296
Some posters would do well to read that before spouting off nonsense and half-truths.
bass4funk
Not nice try, just the facts, they didn't do anything to curtail it.
They sure did.
Oh, most definitely. So people are cutting their cable bill because they love to Brain or Joe and Mika go on a daily rant to the point where they have to constantly retract stories? Yes, the keystone bunch.
Won't even come close to CNN or msnbc, I worked for NBC in the 90's and they were bad then, but they desperately tried to pass themselves off at least as fair and NOT liberal, but more central, yeah. LOL
I read that, but I'll stick to reality, but thanks anyway.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/1/obama-presidency-to-end-with-20-trillion-national-/
Tommy Jones
If you say so.
People are cutting their cable bills because they are using the internet. Wow. Nothing gets by some posters.
Give us the numbers then.
Youve claimed a lot of things about your personal life to bolster your arguments. It doesn't bolster your arguments. ROFL. KUDDOS.
The reality that allows you to perceive the left as saying the debt wasn't $19 trillion at the end of Obama's two terms? Or the reality in which you haven't repeatedly laid the entire debt at Obama's feet?
Tommy Jones
Your original claim was that Obama was responsible for the entire $17 trillion debt. When called out on the inaccuracy, you changed your story saying your assertion was that the Dems did nothing to curtail the debt.
After being shown that your original claim was indeed that Obama was responsible for the entire debt, you doubled down on the assertion that Dems did nothing to curtail the debt.
It must be frustrating for certain posters to be disallowed from being dishonest.
plasticmonkey
Even though there is no evidence this has ever worked, Republicans keep repeating this mantra decade after decade. I'm going to call their bluff. The GOP congress and their financial backers don't believe it works. (Just ask multimillionaires like bass how many jobs they plan on creating after this tax cut goes through.) And they don't really give a damn if it blows a hole in the deficit. What they care about is the donor class (thanks, Citizens United!). More yachts and offshore tax-free accounts to the entitlement class.
Republican leadership (if you can call it that) relies on empty beliefs and false narratives that they keep feeding the American public through propaganda outlets like Fox and Breitbart, many of whose viewers are too gullible to see through these lies. There is such a blind faith in the "magic of the marketplace" that whenever the economy tanks after GOP policies, it's easy for Republicans to blame Democrats for being "tax and spend" (another myth). Democrats then have to clean up the mess with stimulus bills, which the GOP blasts for adding to the deficit.
Still waiting to hear how bass is going to use these cuts to help supercharge the US economy. That's what trickle-down is all about, right?
bass4funk
Well, again there are different economists that do say the opposite and I’m not a multi- millionaire, but getting there....slowly and I think it’s a good thing, but it depends on the person you’re asking. Either way, it’s going to happen, so we don’t need to crush our skulls over this.
I just get a serious laugh attack when I hear a liberal utter those words. Again, the Dems didn’t care over the last 8 years leaving office with a $17 Trillion debt. So now all of a sudden they are in a panic? Dear lord....
What? The problem with people that don’t have any money is the mental interpretation of what and how they think the affluent live. Astonishing!
Now it’s propaganda? What nonsense. That be a loooooot of people listening to that so called propaganda and the bad thing is, the left can’t do anything about it.
wait...do they have one? Oh, more income redistribution. Sounds like a winner to me. ROFL!
Tommy Jones
This reply starts off well enough, but then fails to answer the direct question asked.
Again, this is a half-truth. My lord, ROFL. Dear lord. Kuddos.
Nope. It's always been propaganda.
Just because a lot of people listen to something doesn't mean that thing isn't propaganda. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see the outlets Plastic named pump out shameless propaganda.
The democrat solution to tax reform was to reduce taxes on those making less than $250k a year because those are the people that need tax relief. You see, if those people had gotten tax relief, they would spend more money, this stimulating the economy. Instead, crazy, clearly corrupt cons want to give those that don't need it tax relief. Kuddos! Good lord! SMH. LOL. What about Podesta? But Clinton wasn't manning a SAW on the roof of the embassy in Benghazi.
Tommy Jones
Clearly Fox is to be trusted.
Tommy Jones
You're assuming that Plastic isn't rich like we are. Unfortunately for you, Plastic has more money than both of us combined. That's a lot of money considering how rich I am.
bass4funk
And the source site?
If it were, liberals in the media wouldn’t be afraid or annoyed, thank God for FNC, if it weren’t for them, we would be like back in the old days of CNN with the show Crossfire where they would dig up old Bob Novak to come out and debate a liberal and that be it. Try again. 140 million and growing love the propaganda.
I hear ya, when you have the libs fighting for the top spot and not verify sources and just jump on the tube to present something and then only to be called out, shamed and put on House Arrest or causing the market to tank 600 points shows the clear care and lack for journalistic integrity.
What about the 40% of Americans that don’t pay taxes? What about cutting spending? What about giving incentives to business owners? How would Democrats rebuild the private sector and stay competitive and bring jobs back to the US?
i really don’t need to hear the left bloviate, I just want to know the Democrat proposal.
Tommy Jones
I would give it to you, but you wouldn't believe it. (I learned this one from you.) Try using Google yourself. This is not some mystery.
This does not mean Fox is not a propaganda outlet.
All this mess is that Fox is a particularly effective propaganda outlet.
Fox's lukewarm retractions only occur after they are called out and shamed. Fox is only truthful 10% of the time.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/
You mean income tax. Those 40% still pay payroll taxes.
You mean like Trump is doing by increasing the military budget?
Such as? I know you are going to go straight to the tax relief, but as has been amply explained, this has never worked.
You mean like Obama did after the financial crisis that occurred under Bush?
Funny how you have no issue bloviating yourself.
plasticmonkey
Two points:
1) Debt accrued specifically by Obama's policies over his 8 years in office (as calculated by the CBO) comes to $983 billion. The rest of the $9 trillion (if you measure total debt increase) is largely from reduced revenues due to GW's tax cuts and the spillover effects of the economic crash of 2008, natural and unavoidable increases in Social Security and Medicare, and the ongoing wars on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Obama policy that created the largest amount of debt on his watch was (wait for it . . .) his tax cuts. His stimulus to resuscitate the economic mess in 2009 was another. Obama also increased military spending (so much for the myth that Obama "decimated" the military).
2) Democrats controlled Congress for Obama's first two years. Congress was split during the middle four years, and controlled by Republicans for the last two. What were Republicans doing to cut the deficit?
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Where does that number come from? Are you suggesting 140 million people watch Fox?
Not to mention that if they aren't paying income taxes, its becuase they can't- they don't have money. Good grief, how are you going to make them pay and how much do you think they can actually afford to pay?
plasticmonkey
That's OK. Size isn't everything.
plasticmonkey
They're ripping us off, that's what.
I say we tax people more for earning less, and less for earning more. It's my new economic theory based on incentive. People working nights at Burger King might wisen up real quick and get themselves into the oil business, or become a property developer, or investment banker.
Ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross? Now that's the way to run an economy.
Tommy Jones
Agreed. Damn them for not having chosen their parents well.
SuperLib
FYI, trickle down economics doesn't exist in any economics book. It was something created entirely by the Republican Party.
plasticmonkey
It exists in the books as a theory almost no serious economist espouses. Arthur Laffer invented this crap. Supply-side economics. Started under Reagan. Continues under Trump. Has never worked (at least not for the common folk).
wtfjapan
If they reversed it, it would seem you wouldn't be happy with an alternate point of view as well. Just sayin.....
heres another point of view on the tax cuts
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/28/us/politics/tax-bill-deficits.html
bass4funk
You never know, try me. I’m open- minded, I’m not a liberal.
Doesnt mean at all that it is.
To the blind and one sided thinking liberal bias bunch, you may be right.
Yes, indeed!!!!! If I wanted to be like Denmark, I would move there, but I sleep better with a powerful military.
Yes and they do work, how about cutting spending.
Like what how many private sector jobs were created and what were they exactly?
That did not stop the Democrats when they controlled the Senate from going on a spending spree. The Democrats really have some nerve to talk about this Congress adding $1 Trillion to the deficit when they added $10 Trillion at that time they didn’t care, didn’t want to talk about it, didn’t want to deal or work with the GOP UNLESS it was completely on their terms and that weasel Reed would never allow any GOP legislative bill to go through the House were about 352 so if Reid hadn't purposely threw bananas in the way to trip up the Republicans and work with them NOT only in a bipartisan way, but to allow for some conservative ideas to come to the floor, but then again, we are talking about Reid. I still remember that beating he got. Slipped and hurt his eye, Yeah, right.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Yawn. The exact same jobs created by the "Trump economy. How many private sector jobs were created and what were they exactly? The way employment figures are collected and calculated didn't change with the administration.
Cliff notes: You don't know and you're too lazy to find out.
Still waiting Bassy: How are you going to make the working poor pay income taxes, and how much do you think they'll pay?
Hint: Poor people are poor. It is not only cowardly, but ultimately unprofitable, to pay on them.
SuperLib
A majority of Americans think the temporary tax cuts favor the rich.
bass4funk
Trump's been on the job for a year. Give it 8 years and then we can compare, now let's try this once again, how many private sector jobs did the last admin. create? Just answer the question that I asked first, please.
No, I have a lot of liberal friends that we can talk and disagree with, but they're not Kool aid drinkers. And of course I criticize Trump on things that I think he's wrong and I have before.
The same goes for you. Just because multiple sources are verified doesn't mean that YOUR sources or even mine are correct. They are verified by professionals and it depends on which verification you want to go with or choose to believe more in.
I do, but it depends on where you fall on, I believe the opposite about a lot of libs, we just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Some things, sure, but modernization and buildup, No.
Now let's see this on a micro level...
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-good-is-job-growth-the-chart-obama-doesnt-want-you-to-see/
What's missing, however, is context. Because when you look at these numbers in context, not only do the exclamation points disappear, but so do any claims of robust job growth under this administration.
Take that 14.4 million job growth number. That sounds impressive doesn't it? But that job growth is stretched over almost six full years, during which time the working age population grew by 15.8 million.
In that respect, we've lost ground on jobs under Obama.
The difference is, the GOP wanted to work with Obama, but it was ONLY on his terms, with Trump, the Dems Don't want to work with him at all.
Probably from someone he really ticked off.
Tommy Jones
It was Flavor Aid.
Please provide examples when you have criticized Trump.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. However, my sources are peer-reviewed.
Again, I cannot understand this.
So cutting spending is only important/critical when you personally disagree with what is being funded.
Typical. Give me examples of job growth under Obama.
Okay, here are the numbers.
Those numbers aren't accurate. Just look at this opinion article!
Ummm . . . ROFL! Intellectual dishonesty at its finest. Obama: Here is my nominee for SCOTUS. Repubes: You only have just under a year left in office. We refuse to do our duties as outlined in the constitution! Kuddos!
Nice. You know the person that assaulted and battered Reid. A good citizen would report this violence to the proper authorities. Or, do you agree with violence as long as it is directed against a liberal?
Tommy Jones
The number of people available to work has no bearing on the number of jobs created. It does have a bearing on the number of jobs needed.
bass4funk
It’s the same thing, artificial drank and that’s how and what we call it historically.
The Billy Bush tape, I criticized some of his unnecessary tweeting when it didn’t serve him well.
I don’t think so. I disagree. We just have a disagreement.
If you think. So in 8 years what private sector jobs did he create specifically?
Which was their right, if it were the opposite, the Dems would never appoint a possible conservative to the bench, never. So it was within the GOPs constitutional right to not hold any hearings on any Democrat nominee.
No, not at all, but if anyone was more deserving of a tap, it was definitely Reid.
Tommy Jones
It isn't the same thing. Just because a fallacy is historically promoted doesn't make it correct.
Thanks.
Okay. That said, it is quite easy to determine whether something, like my sources, are peer reviewed. But, please continue to live in that bubble where what you disagree with is incorrect simply because you disagree with it.
That information is almost impossible to determine because it's not how job growth is reported.
Plwase cite the constitutional provision that grants the Senate this right, or the case law that does.
Even if it was the Senate's "right," which it was not, it is a perfect example of GOP obstructionism, Yoy know, the original issue we were debating.
This means you are promoting violence against those you disagree with. Repugnant.
Tommy Jones
Just going to gloss over this?
>
bass4funk
They were both artificial drink essentialy the same, it was laced with poison, doesn’t matter, people died as a result.
Thanks.
Can you just answer my question, please. You made the accusation, so I just want to know where and in which area.
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://search.yahoo.co.jp/&httpsredir=1&article=2980&context=faculty_publications
I’m not promoting anything and I wouldn’t call for it, personally, but as an outsider looking in, I’m just saying if anyone deserves a tap, it was Reid.
Tommy Jones
You made the accusation that job growth was weak under Obama. I corrected you with the best evidence available.
How about you provide the same type of information you are requesting for jobs under Trump?
bass4funk
I also showed you an investors report that said the complete opposite and many or our portfolios weren’t looking as good then as they are now.
The United States has added 1.07 million jobs during Trump’s six months in office. Of course, he isn’t entirely responsible for the job market. A slew of factors throughout the economy affect hiring decisions.
July’s job gains came across the board. Restaurants and bars added 53,000 employees. Health care gained 39,000 new positions. Manufacturing firms hired 16,000 workers. Business services and mining were also among the gainers.
More Americans who were on the sidelines jumped back into the job market in July to look for work. Experts say that as unemployment stays low and wage growth remains steady, more Americans should start looking for work again.
companies like Toyota and Mazda announced a plan to invest $1.6 billion in a U.S. factory, in a state yet to be named. This is expected to create 4,000 jobs. Last month, Apple supplier Foxconn agreed to open a factory in Wisconsin, which is expected to generate 3,000 jobs and the company indicated that number could grow.
Tommy Jones
You provided an opinion piece in response to the information I provided. Again, your personal anecdotes do not bolster your arguments.
President Obama has been great for the health care sector. Nearly 2.9 million job gains have come in the health care sector alone. It's a mixed bag in terms of "good jobs." Doctors, dentists and nurses are typically paid well, but home health aides aren't
A scan across the other big job creators reveals a similar story: There's been a 1.4 million surge in "professional services" (aka white-collar jobs in offices) that pay well. On the other hand, administrative assistants and restaurant jobs that tend to pay poorly have also grown a lot.
bass4funk
Thats your way of seeing it as well, we just have a difference of opinion, we’re not going to agree and that’s ok.
Fiscally, not at all.
Yes, that’s the healthcare, And many more left the exchanges.The economy can’t gro by doctors,so wherein the private industry did Obama make a huge impact where you saw substantial job continued job growth?
Like what,which major company?
Like in Washington State where they wanted a wage increase, but lost out because the increase killed payroll and that State saw massive layoffs because of the pay raises which led to the increase of food items passed back to the customers
CaptDingleheimer
How to write a news article about a Trump policy:
Decide that the policy is bad
Pick and choose points to make the policy look badI don't really like Trump either, but I've pretty much stopped taking news outlets seriously, as so many of them seem more driven by their journalists' hatred of Trump then they are by telling me the news.
loggediin
A simple polarisation between the haves and have nots. if you make alot of money from hard work-sweat and tears, then you hate paying high taxes. if you are a useless unlucky teet, then you wanna free lunch 'til your sixty five...people who are vehemently opposed to capitalism should revisit and reevaluate their socialist values...or put their money where their mouths are and go marry some poor Siberian woman...and stay over there! Seems to be a lot of left learners on this site...down voting...you really and truly think you are unmistakenly correct about everything, right?
wtfjapan
The Democrats really have some nerve to talk about this Congress adding $1 Trillion to the deficit oh you mean the multi $Trillion wars that Bush started on a lie and the $800billion + GFC and auto industry bailouts that Bush lumped on the US taxpayers . All of which was left for Obama to clean up
bass4funk
And the war in Afghanistan that Obama pushed for, launching the ACA increased entitlements 3 fold and increased unemployment as well as welfare higher than almost any other president and added over $10 Trillion to the deficit.
sf2k
USA continues to crater under its debts and miscreants