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Gun lobby says Congress will not pass weapons ban

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By EILEEN SULLIVAN

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32 Comments
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Keene is an atrocious specimen. He reminds me of a rip-off used car salesman flogging a vehicle with dodgy brakes.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Does it not bother anyone that Peace Officers CAN purchase actual military grade fully-automatic M-16's?

It would not bother me. Why should it. There are lots of things police can do during the course of their job that average citizens cannot. I would not want average citizens acting like police officers.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

No doubt this has been said before, but machine guns and genuine "assault weapons" have been banned in the US since 1934; you cannot actually buy one in the US if you are not Law Enforcement, or the military. What we're talking about is banning firearms that look like modern military rifles, which is tantamount to regulating people who look like criminals - not surprisingly, that is under consideration in many places too: racial profiling and feature recognition based regulations.

One sheriff department ranking official in California, testifying to that state's senate, said the modern American "black rifle" is as ubiquitous as the musket was in Revolutionary War era America; it is the everyman rifle of today. It is merely the modern evolution of the rifle, applying current technological innovations - much like your car has modern technological innovations. A Model T Ford was good enough for my great grandfather, but would I want to drive one?

Those things are, of course, not a reason to dismiss considering regulations - that's up to local, state, federal and civilian legislative processes, but it's always good to be clear on what's really be discussed.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Keene insists the group represents its members and not just the gun manufacturers, though he said the NRA would like industry to contribute more money to the association."

More money in pockets of the NRA merchants of death.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In a free and democratic society it is every citizen's right to pursue effecting change in that society, hopefully in accordance with legal means and available due process. Combining that with free speech means it doesn't matter if the opinion driving that desire to effect change is in agreement with others, or not.

So if one lives in such a society, where one can actually do that; isn't that nice? I certainly think so. Good luck to all of you, on all sides of the issue - involvement is the thing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Great link, Xeno23. Thanks.

Alex Jones is a raving lunatic that can't even have a normal debate. It's very disturbing to think that there are gun owners like him out there. One thing that I got from watching it is that it made me realize that gun owners like him would more likely use their guns to threaten others not to take away their guns, rather than for using it for self-defense in the first place. When it comes to the topic of gun control, you just can't have an intelligent conversation with a gun nut.

The NRA doesn't want any laws restricting their gun rights because it means less business for them. All they want to do is fuel their business by making non-owners so afraid of those who have guns that they need to go out and buy some themselves. That's all they care about. They could care less about how many people die from guns.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@global Great link - thanks. That would be funny if the subject wasn't so tragic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Freakshow, I believe you mistook that link posting for one Globalwatcher posted; I posted no link. Regardless of the topic, or the range of opposing arguments, I always advocate a reasoned approach based on facts and sound logical argumentation. Neither Morgan nor Jones engage in genuine logical discourse; hence their discussion is pointless from a forensic argument perspective. It may be fun, or irritating to watch, but it provides no added value to the discussion.

On topic: most of the proposals Biden is putting forth - as I understand them - are already in place in California; e.g., you must go through a background check even when buying from a private party (gun shows too); magazines are capped to 10 rounds; restrictions on AR type rifles (feature based limitations); this is about California-izing the rest of the country.

California is in the top tier of states having the most rigorous gun laws, yet it is also among the top tier of states for most gun sales. Granted, CA has a high population, but what this means is that even with a high degree of regulation and inconvenience, citizens will abide by the laws and get their guns.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Perhaps they will block it in the end, but that's not any kind of victory for anyone.

Smith you can buy AR-15s in Canada.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And once again the NRA and Congress show how out of touch they are with much of the nation (Congress moreso than the NRA, sadly). Perhaps they will block it in the end, but that's not any kind of victory for anyone. What on earth does a person need assault weapons in their home for? And don't give me the usual jibber-jabber about needing them for 'defense'; you don't need a machine gun for that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia, a lifelong member of the NRA, has said everything should be on the table to prevent another tragedy like Newtown.

As long as it doesn't include curbing easy access to hundreds of millions of guns. Where are the video games?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Of course the NRA supports, and is supported by the firearms industry; that's what lobbying organizations do. It's also true that the NRA supports and is supported by its constituent public - who also support and are supported by the industry they want products from; they want their sourcing industry to thrive. The same can be said of lobbies for the plastics industry, or any other industry and consumer group.

Granted, this particular lobby is focused on a touchy subject product, but to say that this lobbying organization is somehow different from any other, or is somehow more inherently bankrupt than any other simply isn't germane.

The matter at hand isn't the NRA. If the true weight of public opinion in a democratic society is against something, eventually lobbying organizations' efforts succumb to that mandate. The real question is whether American society is actually prepared and ready to give up it's guns. And that won't be decided by the outliers of the bell curve, no matter how vocal they may be.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

Watch this youtube; CNN Pierce Morgan interview with this moron Alex Jones on guns. He has 50 guns!! This guy is a total nut and needs to be institutionalized. I sure do not want this guy living next door.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As long as it doesn't include curbing easy access to hundreds of millions of guns. Where are the video games?

Another snide remark from a liberal. The real problem is that God has been removed from schools!

... machine guns and genuine "assault weapons" have been banned in the US since 1934...

The weapons in question can fire up to six rounds per second - a speed which makes a digital SLR camera look slow. Many studies have pointed to a correlation between a weapon's firing rate and the number of casualties in mass murder incidents.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ Herve

Pitting him with the ultra-left bloviator Piers Morgan is slap-stick comedy at its worst.

Piers Morgan is "ultra-left"?? The slap-stick continues....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here are the latest statistics on total firearm-related deaths per 100,000 population: Mexico 11.14; U.S. 10.20; Italy 1.28; Australia 1.05; UK .25; Poland .26; Japan .07. I can see why the NRA is so proud of what it has accomplished.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Laguna: Another snide remark from a liberal. The real problem is that God has been removed from schools!

Ah, good old Huckabee. Trying to limit things like massive clips is crazy to gun supporters, yet talking about God in schools in perfectly acceptable. So is talking about Hitler. And arming teachers. And putting more guns on the streets. And government conspiracies.

We had a discussion on Friday and a friend of mine didn't know that you could buy a gun from a private owner with no background check. She's not really into guns or the gun debate but it came up because her husband is about to buy a gun, so she's not against them. She was surprised that you could buy with a background check and said that needed to change. Two things stuck me: 1) How much it really just came down to common sense for a disinterested party to instantly come to that conclusion and 2) How she had no idea that by expressing that view she's going to be labeled as someone who is against the 2nd Amendment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And don't give me the usual jibber-jabber about needing them for 'defense'; you don't need a machine gun for that.

Actually a fully-automatic would be very effective in very close range combat, especially a machine gun shotgun such as the AA-12. Fully-automatics really only serve two purposes and that is suppression fire and covering fire, in other words machine guns are not designed to kill, the only time fully automatic would actually be effective in terms of incapacitating the target would be in very close range combat. The weapons in question such as the AR-15 and Saiga-12s are not machine guns, they are semi-automatics only. They only fire one round each time the trigger is squeezed and even if you hold the squeeze it is only going to fire one round. Semi-automatics are very good for target shooting, hunting, home defense(pretty much all handguns are semi-automatics, revolvers are semi-automatics), and if need be to form a militia.

Here are the latest statistics on total firearm-related deaths per 100,000 population: Mexico 11.14; U.S. 10.20; Italy 1.28; Australia 1.05; UK .25; Poland .26; Japan .07. I can see why the NRA is so proud of what it has accomplished.

Lets see here the USA number includes the number of people killed by law enforcement as well as those in justified homicide, that number also includes suicides. According to your wiki link just under 2 thirds of the deaths are suicides. According to the FBI gun crime has basically been cut in half since 1993 yet more than 100 million guns have been added to America's street during that time as well as the population increased by 50+ million people. Are you saying that cutting the number of people killed by firearms as well gun assaults by half while at the same time adding 100 million guns is not something to be proud of? Your saying that making progress is not something to be proud of?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Herve

No offense, mate, but I reckon Margaret. Thatcher would be a dangerous loony socialist on your scale....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The comparison of the US to the Weimar Republic is cautionary

No, it is just a really bad comparison.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And not relevant. All readers please stay on topic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Such comparisons are irrelevant. Again, we ask you to please focus your comments on what is in the story.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm gonna go ahead and place my faith in such things as checks and balances before I decide I need to arm myself with semi-automatic weapons. I'm sure my gun would be pretty far down the list of things that prevented a government takeover.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

" The weapons in question can fire up to six rounds per second…"

More misinformation, as usual. Have you tried to squeeze the trigger of any firearm six times in one second?

The fact is that the semi-auto is capable of 45rounds per minute. In NAM, my M16 was theoretically capable of 800 rpm, but any vet can tell you that DID NOT happen, thanks to the low quality issue rounds.

The AR-15 LOOKS like an M-16, but is significantly different.

Why would anyone believe that a person who would ignore laws against murder, would obey laws against guns ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

" Alex Jones is a raving lunatic that can't even have a normal debate. It's very disturbing to think that there are gun owners like him out there. One thing that I got from watching it is that it made me realize that gun owners like him would more likely use their guns to threaten others not to take away their guns, rather than for using it for self-defense in the first place. When it comes to the topic of gun control, you just can't have an intelligent conversation with a gun nut."

Last I checked, Alex Jones was not part of the national discussion, but rather a distraction. Pitting him with the ultra-left bloviator Piers Morgan is slap-stick comedy at its worst. Where else can such jack@22es be seen together as CNN?

Does it not bother anyone that Peace Officers CAN purchase actual military grade fully-automatic M-16's? The fact that city police departments arm themselves with actual weapons of war(I've been there, in NAM ) makes me really worry that the US is descending into a full Police State(Vietnam was never a properly declared war, but a Police Action). Is there a difference?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Laguna, the actual specs for the civilian version of the AR-15 are readily available, and clearly state 45 rounds per minute. There are also plenty of sites that clearly detail the differences between the full-auto selectable M-16 and the semi-auto AR-15. Apples and Oranges.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

With all the focus on stricter gun control as a solution to the perceived uptick in violence in America, I am struck by the absence of conversation on the link between violent behavior and the use of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI). This class of drugs are very popular with the psychiatric community and are regularly prescribed to young people who exhibit signs of "non-conformity" such as ADHD and depression. In fact these types of anti-depressants are some of the most widely prescribed drugs in America today. They are readily available, easy to obtain and heavily promoted by the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries. Some school districts in the US actually encourage parents to get their kids on the "meds" if they are having trouble fitting in or have problems at school.

Among the listed side effects of SSRIs are "suicidal and/or homicidal ideations" or in other words they have been shown to make some people snap and commit violent acts, up to and including murder. The case histories of the majority of perpetrators in recent mass killings have indicated that they had been or were currently being treated with SSRIs prior to or at the time of their actions. So, why aren't we hearing more about that? Time and again, a seemingly non-violent individual will go on a rampage and commit some horrible act, and if you look deep enough,, you are more likely than not, to find a reference to SSRIs.

The pharmaceutical industry is huge and the sales of SSRIs alone are a multi-billion dollar component of it. Somebody is making a lot of money and some of that money is helping to finance a very influential and apparently successful lobbying effort in Washington. Influential enough to keep the subject out of the spot light, and headlines, and allowing the pharmaceutical industry to conduct business as usual without the kind of scrutiny that is being applied to guns and the firearm industry.

So while we're looking for solutions to address the violence in American society, maybe we should be paying more attention to the role that the pharmaceutical industry and the drugging of our children play in the equation.

Check out his link, it's pretty interesting. http://ssristories.com/index.php

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Firearms_manufacturers_in_the_United_States

We will go after these US gun manufacturers that are financially supporting NRA. Once the financial investment is discouraged by investors, then NRA executives salary will be stopped as well.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Pitting him with the ultra-left bloviator Piers Morgan

Your mind, somehow, always is stuck with name calling gameA of Left, Liberal.

A majority of Americans want gun reform. Are you calling a majority Americans are Left or Liberal?

I see many JT bloggers are falling into this name calling pits and become victims preventing them from civil discussion. If you avoid this kind of thinking, you and many others are just fine. From communication perspectives, name calling always signaling they have nothing better to say. They are weak debaters,.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@lucabrasi,

" Piers Morgan is "ultra-left"??"

Yes, that's what I said. Plain as day. Morgan is so Left he even left the UK.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The comparison of the US to the Weimar Republic is cautionary and relevant to the course the US may be taking. Disarming the quarry certainly makes that group compliant and vulnerable to the whims of even democratically elected leaders, as occurred with the Weimar Republic and from which rose a certain, very charismatic, yet inhumanely evil chancellor-cum-dictator who directed the slaughter of millions of innocents throughout Modern Europe.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Sen John McCain, an Arizona Republican, responded with a flat out “no” when asked on CBS television’s “Face the Nation” whether Congress would pass a ban on assault weapons.

he will not be elected. NRA and the Republicans are totally disconnected to see what the majority voters are saying. We will remove all states pension plans associated with gun manufactures, boycotting Walmart and anyone against gun control. We will do differently this time to accomplish our goals.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

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