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Gunman kills 3 Pittsburgh police officers responding to domestic disturbance call

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This from the BBC:

His friends said he had recently lost his job, and was worried that US President Barack Obama was about to ban guns.

Another man who said he was a friend of Mr Poplawski, Aaron Vire, told the newspaper: "He said he'll be ready if there's ever an invasion of the United States and that he had stockpiled foods and guns for that eventuality."

So who feeds these sad sacks such delusions? Who provides the rationale that makes murder a justifiable act?

Guns don't kill, people kill. So who is aiding and abetting the mind behind the finger that pulls the trigger?

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Guns don't kill

Really? If guns don't kill, why does every American need one??

Prepare for a wave of this kind of violence. Given the state of the economy.

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Prepare for a wave of this kind of violence. Given the state of the economy.

The only way for the current economic situation to get worse is if the body count continues to rise and a siege mentality takes hold with workers and bosses becoming suspicious of each other. There is no freedom at either end of a gun.

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After watching credible posters such as Skipthesong and others near disgrace themselves this week by standing up for the rights of Americans to possess guns, we read news of YET ANOTHER shooting in America.

Yesterday, I labeled the immigration center massacre as 'This Week's Massacre in America.'

I apologize for jumping the gun - it's more like 'Today's Massacre in America.'

It's going to be interesting watching the pro-gun posters on this site try to defend this latest shooting spree.

Let's get some facts straight:

This guy was packing an assault rifle and two other guns, and held police at bay for four hours while wonded officers lay bleeding nearby.

Had guns been banned, or at the very least heavily restricted, this killer may well have had to resort to using a knife or a bat and fewer people would have been killed.

However, because this guy had not 1 gun but 3, we see an armed standoff and 3 families wrecked while the NRA and pro-gun advocates continue to spout that Americans have the right to defend themselves.

Another point, that smithinjapan raised yesterday, was the issue that arises when the police/SWAT arrive on the scene and see a number of people brandishing weapons (due to the fact they are carrying them).

How do the police know who is the killer?

"It's HIM!" (says every gun owner pointing at the other guy).

It's an indictment on America that their society has reached the point where people feel the NEED to pack heat. It's just not the case in most civilized countries.

President Obama should get working on implementing a gun amnesty and enforcing a strict ban on heavier weapons before American streets turn into turkey shoots.

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Meanwhile, Americans will continue to turn their streets into turkey shoots and their nation into a laughing stock.

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feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Believing the republican rheteric.

wearing a bulletproof vest

That's for protecting his home also.

Poplawski had once tried to join the Marines, but was kicked out of boot camp after throwing a food tray at a drill sergeant, Perkovic said.

We don't put up with that kind of crap. You either become disiplined or you go home.

It's times like this I feel like saying go on and fry the bast*$d. < :-)

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Three more innocent people have been shot to death thanks to the Second Amendment and the gun lobby. It has been a great week for the The Right to Bear Arms.

It is about the Americans got the idea that there is something wrong with a people who wants to own assault weapons. They are not hunting guns and they are not proper target guns. They are designed for only one thing: to kill lots of people at one time.

I believe the same can be said for most handguns. Their purpose is to kill people.

Let me repeat this: You have to assume a priori there is something psychologically wrong with people who buy assault weapons.

The murder these three innocent police officers is going to affect you even if you don't own a gun, never owned a gun, even hate the sight of guns. With the second mass murder of police officers within a month, cops are going to be jumpy. This means if you live in the US you now have a better chance of being an innocent police shooting victim than ever before. All you need to do is inadvertently seem like you have a gun to be blown away.

I sincerely hope that the U.S. gets rid off the Second Amendment or significantly changes it.

Yes, yes, yes: guns don't kill people. Maniacs who can easily get their hands on guns kill people. Lots of innocent people. If you live in the US you stand a better chance of being killed by a maniac than a terrorist or a North Korean missile.

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It's almost surreal watching pro-gun Americans talking like they know what is best for their country in terms of gun control when massacres are now an almost weekly occurrence.

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My sympathy goes out to the cops and their families. Such a sudden and violent way to lose one's life... :(

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Superlib, I know you mean well, and I am not necessarily aiming this comment at you directly, more so at Americans in general, but expressing sympathy at loss of life due to gun-related killings while not backing tougher gun law restrictions is a waste of time.

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Here we go? Another message board that has been sabotaged into a debate about the evil of guns in the US. Well, despite being a person who hopes that the US sooner or later comes to its senses, I ain't going to bite.

With regard to the story itself, my sympathy goes out to the police who were killed. At the same time, however, it seems that somebody stuffed up when running this operation. You have have 3 dead and another couple wounded. This sounds like SOPs went out the window. Somebody (in the police force) will need to swing for this.

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Personally, I think the way you and colmar debate actually hardens the position of the pro-gun crowd, which means your actions are counterproductive to what you claim your goals are. I suspect your desire to slam the pro-gun crowd trumps your desire to see real change so you continue on your counterproductive path because it just feels better personally to say such things.

It's a complicated issue. It's not black and white like most foreigners think. You have a vast majority of gun owners being law abiding citizens that simply aren't affected by gun violence. Gun violence doesn't affect a vast majority of Americans at any point in their lives. You can point to stories about shootings, but in reality in a country of 300,000,000 no one is really walking around in fear of being caught in a mall shooting. It's something that you see on the news, not something that plays in your mind as you go through the day. That's usually what foreigners don't understand.

Rolling out your favorite one-liners (looks like " shooting turkeys" is your choice for this topic) just makes things more difficult for those of us who would like to see guns banned.

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SuperLib: "Personally, I think the way you and colmar debate actually hardens the position of the pro-gun crowd, which means your actions are counterproductive to what you claim your goals are."

That's simply because people are stubborn and have a hard time admitting that what they believe in may be wrong. It takes an utter shock -- like losing a family member to a gun -- to change their belief systems. Otherwise they simply lash out against critics and believe more firmly that they are right. And yet, logic is 100% against them on this. People who continually come on here, and it's more or less day after day now, to defend guns in the face of massacres, have an illness, and that illness is rooted in particular in much of the USA.

My heart goes out to these police officers; three more absolutely meaningless deaths.

The saddest part about all of this, and in particular on discussion threads and right up to the NRA, is that gun-nutters are probably more embarrassed they have to defend themselves again today than they are upset about what happened.

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" We never would think this kind of violence would happen in the city of Pittsburgh.”

I'm actually getting sick of Americans saying this. I realize that there are a huge number of Americans who are anti-gun as well, and no amount of criticism, doubt, or what not cannot buffet the shock and pain victims and relatives must feel, but until they all actually stand up and fight for change it honestly baffles me that anyone living in the US would actually say, "I'm shocked that this would happen!" when it happens DAILY all around them. No one else is shocked that it would happen -- the only shock for people world-wide is that groups like the NRA continue to be allowed to exist, and some Americans will take a disaster like this and use it as a means of 'proof' MORE guns are needed. Hell, even that is becoming less shocking.

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Damn, this seems to happen everytime I turn around. First that nut job in Oakland. Then that wacko at the nursing home. Now these idiot goes on a shooting spree. I don't know what to say. I am not calling for a ban on guns because despite how gruesome and sickening this act was, it is a rarity even given the recent spree.

By the way, Obama has made no mention on doing anything about guns or gun control as of yet. I think he has bigger fish to fry.

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Yet again another senseless act of violence. When will it all stop. My prayers are with the surviving families of the police officers.

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smithinjapan: it honestly baffles me that anyone living in the US would actually say, "I'm shocked that this would happen!" when it happens DAILY all around them.

Well then we're left with two possible choices. Either the person who said they're shocked it would happen in their community is insane and/or just out of touch with the reality of his community, or perhaps you have little to no understanding or perspective on gun violence in the US. I think you can probably guess which way I'm leaning.

People around us die every day from heart attacks, car accidents, etc. They don't die from gun violence. If enough people express shock about the situation, then perhaps you should start to believe that their shock is genuine and ask yourself if you really understand gun violence in America.

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This guy had a bulletproof vest. Seeing as owning a bulletproof vest is illegal at least in PA, before he even shot these officers he was a criminal. A gun ban would have done nothing for this guy as it is clear he would have circumvented the law to obtain his weapons in the same way he did to get his vest. I do think making it harder to get guns MAY help, but it will not stop these incidents. Criminals will always be able to get guns, law or no law.

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Superlib - "I suspect your desire to slam the pro-gun crowd trumps your desire to see real change so you continue on your counterproductive path because it just feels better personally to say such things."

I take it your comment above was a reply to my previous post.

I'll say right now your above opinion is on another planet as far as being accurate is concerned.

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Superlib - "Rolling out your favorite one-liners (looks like " shooting turkeys" is your choice for this topic) just makes things more difficult for those of us who would like to see guns banned."

That might be so, but people like you "who would like to see guns banned" are not doing enough.

You have twice already today expressed your sympathy for gun crime victims.

It seems that saying stuff is right about where your attempts to see guns banned stops.

It's like the company director who apologizes in tears on TV for corruption, and then goes right back to his bad old ways.

Lots of words, few actions. It's not enough and you know it.

Action, please.

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Superlib - "Well then we're left with two possible choices. Either the person who said they're shocked it would happen in their community is insane and/or just out of touch with the reality of his community, or perhaps you have little to no understanding or perspective on gun violence in the US."

Superlib, I think what most people understand about gun violence in the US is that it is getting worse by the week and that there are unfortunately too many people like yourself, who are just not prepared to do anything much about it.

Oh, of course - to your credit you have twice already today expressed your sympathy for the victims.

Is that enough? And will it ever end?

Not unless good citizens like yourself stop talking and get acting to get gun laws tightened.

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"Is that enough? And will it ever end?

Not unless good citizens like yourself stop talking and get acting to get gun laws tightened." Sushi- I'll say it once more, Criminals will always be able to get guns, law or no law. Even if it were against the law, this guy and criminals like him would still have guns. It's what makes them criminals, this disregard for the law. Gun laws don't apply in this story.

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I support banning nutters, and refusing them access to firearms.

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This is getting ridiculous. How many multiple shootings can happen in a month. Crazy!

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ANOTSUSAGAMI: A gun ban would have done nothing for this guy as it is clear he would have circumvented the law to obtain his weapons in the same way he did to get his vest. I do think making it harder to get guns MAY help, but it will not stop these incidents. Criminals will always be able to get guns, law or no law.

I agree with so much of this post, yet I have so many objections. Perhaps the objections are merely semantical?

Of course he would have tried to circumvent a gun ban. That does not mean he would have succeeded. Also, I advocate gun control rather than a ban.

Making it harder to get guns "may" help? No, I think it will most certainly help. Other countries prove this clearly.

Stop these incidents? Of course we cannot stop them 100 percent. But an 80 percent reduction would be really, really nice. What we want is to prevent as many as we can. Stop is an impossible goal.

Criminals will "always" be able to get guns? I would say "sometimes". To say "always" makes the whole attempt seem futile. It is not. We can prevent most of these incidents I believe, through smarter gun control.

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Criminals will always be able to get guns, law or no law.

How come this kind of stuff happens rarely in other countries (where criminals are always able to get guns, law or no law) but on a monthly/weekly/daily basis in America?

Once again the pro-gun gang seem to be stating that there's something....different....about Americans that makes them more likely to want to kill people than the rest of us are.

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Once again the pro-gun gang seem to be stating that there's something....different....about Americans that makes them more likely to want to kill people than the rest of us are.

I think not.

Moderator: References to shootings in other countries are of course irrelevant to this discussion.

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Personally I think the reason that Americans with guns are more likely to kill than say Canadians or Germans, who also have access to firearms, is that Americans are brought up with an absolute belief that they are the centre of the universe, their needs and desires take precedence over any other concern. Arrogance and guns don't mix.

Moderator: Please do not post inflammatory remarks.

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ANOTSUSAGAMI - "Gun laws don't apply in this story."

Sorry, gun laws are at the center of this story. Had it been more difficult for this guy to gain acces to guns, there may never have been a story.

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likeitis - "Stop these incidents? Of course we cannot stop them 100 percent. But an 80 percent reduction would be really, really nice. What we want is to prevent as many as we can. Stop is an impossible goal."

Bang on.

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laconic - "Personally I think the reason that Americans with guns are more likely to kill than say Canadians or Germans, who also have access to firearms, is that Americans are brought up with an absolute belief that they are the centre of the universe, their needs and desires take precedence over any other concern. Arrogance and guns don't mix."

I also think there is an aspect of aggressive white male behavior existing in not just America but other western nations, too.

Adding easily accessible weapons to the mix only makes things more volatile.

Add to that, I think Americans tend to have a very strong affiliation with the land they own, and will do almost anything - including using firearms - to protect it.

Of course, males in other countries also display these characteristics, however the difference is that outside war zones, Americans probably have the easiest access to weapons.

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It is hard for people to help you when you kill them.

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Poplawski, armed with an assault rifle and two other guns

Let me guess he needed all those weapons because he loved to hunt raptors.

Poplawski had feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on the way” and “didn’t like our rights being infringed upon,”

The far right has really stirred the pot nice a hot.....Let us see how many more will pay for their rants and rhetoric?

It is just going to get worse and worse until something is done about the gun problem.

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SushiSake: That might be so, but people like you "who would like to see guns banned" are not doing enough.

...and just what would you have me do, Sushi? Put a blanket ban on expressing sympathy then find the nearest gun supporter and crack him over the head a few times with some witty one liners while degrading the United States for personal satisfaction? I think I'll leave that up to you.

If you are interested in helping then you should learn about guns in America and stop using headlines as your sole source of information. Then you'll be able to sit down and have a rational conversation instead of discussing turkeys. After a while you'll find that you're better able to pull people over to your side. You might struggle a bit in the beginning but I'm convinced that if you tone down your rhetoric and stop trying to turn every debate into combat you'll have more success.

Believe it or not we all have the same goal which is to reduce violence. Some people believe guns are a means of protection and they can prevent violence from happening to them. Others believe that without guns violence overall would drop and there would be no need for such protective measures. It seems that your goal is to make the other side slap their foreheads and say, "Oh, yeah, I just realized that I am stupid and violent!" and you seem genuinely surprised that no one is doing that for you.

I think too often you like the excitement of attacking in a debate than actually solving the problem. I'm not asking you to change your position. I'm saying that you should change how you go about trying to change others.

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