Hamas bombing, Israeli airstrike shake Gaza truce

I'm very disappointed to read this. That somebody in Gaza would jepordise the truce/ceasefire and put the Palestinians at risk of being attacked again.

I hope that Mushir al-Masri gets his head out of his butt and works for peace.

Hamas is the duly elected party of Gaza in control. They were voted so by the democratic efforts that Israel and the United States demanded of them. That makes Hamas a legitimate political party and the United States needs to start talking to them. Talking to Abbas and not including Hamas can never work. Abbas has no power to speak for Hamas or its supporters.

I hope that the US gets it right. < :-)

I believe Hamas was in a coalition with Abbas's party but they stole power through violence. How can we expect them to ever respect their neighbors when they don't respect their own? Peace will never work there. It'll take the Israelis to almost obliterate these animals called Hamas.

Both sides need to chalk this up to an isolated incident and move on with the cease fire.

I believe Hamas was in a coalition with Abbas's party but they stole power through violence.

The last ten percent or so, maybe. But most of their power they gained through elections. The rest they gained through fighting Fatah, which was also aggressive against Hamas. But Fatah lost in the end, despite being armed by Israel and the U.S. against Hamas. This is what happens when you meddle.

Israel enemy is occupying Gaza, has been for 40 years. Israel should stop the occupation ASAP. Why is it that they don´t get it? The difference is that the world now got Al Qassam brigades. Resistance. Before it was only bin Laden but now most Europeans and Arabs, Muslims, American scholars support the endless struggle. Oppression leads to reaction. Injustice breeds hatred. The sooner Israelis understand the better it is for them. Jews need to start behaving if they dream of being in Israel for an another 10 years.

Hamas music is already rocking the clubs from Tokyo to the ME and throughout the world.

One love, one world. One Palestine.

The moronic death wish Palestinians have managed to get a truce that gives the ordinary people a rest from the attacks & time to try & get their lives back into some kind of order & they have managed to trick the gullible into seeing them as not such bad people. And then what do these idiots do? Plant a bomb & kill an Israeli soldier & who do these idiots blame for this? Israel. Anybody that can still find it possible to offer these fools support & understanding really needs to take a break & think very carefully about what really motivates them.

Death wish hamas has sacrificed their own children to turn the gullible of the world against Israel. They have brought about the destruction of their own land so as to create good victim TV images, but have they the common sense to sit back & profit from their propaganda victory? No, they just can’t miss the chance of killing a Jew.

These savages are the people that so many say want peace, who would ask Israel to sit down with & talk. Talk! Are you all so childishly simple that you cannot see these people for what they really are? When I see how hamas behaves & then read all the excuses that are made for them I have no choice but to go beyond the smart rhetoric & again ask what lies in the hearts & minds of you people that would side with hamas at any price rather than give a single word of understanding to Israel? I do not believe a word that comes out of Gasa, not even when it comes from the UN or the Redcross, both these organisations will do & say anything to stay in hamas’ good books so that they can stay & do their job as they see it. Many of the people working for these organisations are locals who either support or fear hamas, what honesty can be expected from such a place?

But I have read a million words these last weeks in support of hamas, though it is hidden behind the thin lie of supporting the “Palestinian people”, hamas are the Palestinian people, the Palestinian people are hamas.

I am tired of the deaths & the rubbish that is written to excuse a murdering terrorist gang that think you are the fools & would doubtless kill any of you if you were to go visit them. In an effort to be against Israel these are the people you support from in front of your computers. I have nothing but contempt for your blindness.

So where are all the usual suspects today?

Because somebody really needs to say they told you so.

Hamas are killers & know & understand nothing else.

But I have read a million words these last weeks in support of hamas, though it is hidden behind the thin lie of supporting the “Palestinian people”,

As opposed to your unconditional support of Israeli false-imprisonment and gross over-reaction?

hamas are the Palestinian people,

Hamas are Gazan Palestinians.

the Palestinian people are hamas.

No. Most certainly not. Utterly ridiculous.

Since you got the details so messed up, it is no mystery you cannot see the big picture either.

The video showed a large explosion next to a jeep moving on the Israeli side of the border fence. A huge plume of smoke emerges as the jeep stops. Two Israeli soldiers are then seen running toward the jeep, and gunfire is directed at them before a secondary blast hits them, too.

Gunfire? Secondary blasts? A bit more than just a bombing eh? Is the video the real deal, or more "old footage"?

But I agree with Superlib. They need to move on with the ceasefire.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the bombing, but Ramattan, a Palestinian news agency, later released a video of the roadside bombing allegedly filmed by militants it did not identify.

So why does the title say "Hamas bombing"? It could be Mossad for all we know.

Palestinians just can't get enough of Hamas' pain and misery.

The heavy handed Jews response, shows their bleeding intent on wiping out the Palestinians.

But the world is watching and maybe Obama don't let you murder like before Israel.

When I see how hamas behaves [and] then read all the excuses that are made for them I have no choice but to go beyond the smart rhetoric [and] again ask what lies in the hearts [and] minds of you people that would side with hamas at any price rather than give a single word of understanding to Israel?

Who is "you people"? Who is siding with Hamas "at any price"? Who is not giving "a single word of understanding to Israel"? Please specify.

Understanding Israel and agreeing with Israel are two different things.

Sounds like Hamas is asking for another punch in the mouth.

These people don't know anything except war. They have been fighting for thousands of years. It will never end.

the jaw-dropping complicity and silence of the world is unchanging

It's just that much of the world hasn't bought into the Palestinian lie. Even the Muslim Arab countries don't help their "Palestinian" brothers, because they know that Palestinians living in misery just too good a propaganda tool against Israel.

SezWho2,

Who is "you people"? Who is siding with Hamas "at any price"? Who is not giving "a single word of understanding to Israel"? Please specify.

As I did not write the post to which you are responding, I cannot specifically say about whom they are writing. However, looking at recent discussion about this issue the names, sabiwabi, JackBerstein and AlfGarnett spring to mind.

So why does the title say "Hamas bombing"?

I hope all of you realize how good a point this is. Nobody has been identified yet. Nobody has claimed responsibility.

It could be Mossad for all we know.

It could have been Fatah trying to undermine Hamas. It could have been a random angry Gazan. It could have been Mossad and the death could have been unintended by them. It could have been just about anybody. But the headline summarily blames Hamas.

Must be the pro-Hamas left controlled media at work again! (If you only realize the sarcasm by me telling you,...well, nuff said.)

It could have been Hizbullah!

Yes, I guess it could also be space aliens that placed the bomb, too.

I think Mushir al-Masri comments stating Hamas has not agreed to a full cease-fire does certainly raise the possibility that Hamas was involved. However, I do agree that if no-one has claimed responsibility that just writing 'bombing' would be sufficient.

Anyway, I also agree with SuperLib. It is time for both sides to agree to a 'full cease-fire'. That would certainly be the best short-term thing for the people of Gaza.

Israel should crush them into the dust and use as much might as possible in retribution for this disgusting act of complete stupidity by the neighborhood wimp trying to take down the city tough guy.

kinniku,

I think the posters you have mentioned certainly are Palestinian partisans. However, I'd stop short of saying that they were Hamas partisans "at any price" or that they did not understand Israel. Those would be assumptions (and convenient ones for the purposes of fulmination) and not established facts.

sezwho2; Maybe not wothout prejudice, but without editorial censure.

SezWho2,

Respectfully, I would suggest you have not read enough of their posts if that is your impression.

I think Mushir al-Masri comments stating Hamas has not agreed to a full cease-fire does certainly raise the possibility that Hamas was involved.

It does indeed. But considering the headline, it does raise the possibility that the article is not unbiased. And maybe his comments were not quite as reported.

This bomb could have been set by anybody.

sabiwabi,

This is probably the first time we have ever agreed on anything...

Sorry, upon reading what you wrote again, I have to confess I don't agree 100%. Mushir al-Masri's comments have been reported in other media and articles and Hamas' position has been made quite clear by Hamas leaders themselves. However, I agree the headline should not be jumping to any conclusions...just as we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that because a headline is bad that the information reported in the headlined article must neccessarily be bad...

Who is "you people"? Who is siding with Hamas "at any price"? Who is not giving "a single word of understanding to Israel"? Please specify. However, looking at recent discussion about this issue the names, sabiwabi, JackBerstein and AlfGarnett spring to mind.

Kinniku must be basing this on JackBerstein’s comment: “So why does the title say "Hamas bombing"? It could be Mossad for all we know.” Ooh, what an awful thing to write. And from my comment: “So although I don't necessarily agree with everything Hamas does, I understand their actions.”

I guess we can’t all be as “fair and balanced” as kinniku, who on a thread discussing Israeli war crimes could only bring himself to criticizing Israel for “not allowing journalists into Gaza”. Wow, what compassion!

we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that because a headline is bad that the information reported in the headlined article must neccessarily be bad...

But this headline was not bad because of a spelling mistake; its clear anti-Hamas bias. The only thing I can think of that could save the contents of this article would be if the headline was written by someone other than those who wrote and edited the article. Was the title written by JT or AP?

The only thing I can think of that could save the contents of this article would be if the headline was written by someone other than those who wrote and edited the article. Was the title written by JT or AP?

The authors of the article are at the bottom of the article: Associated Press writers Ibrahim Barzak in Gaza City, Gaza Strip, and Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank, contributed to this report.

As for the headline, I would assume it is JT as they are probably cautiousl in writing in English that is more easily understood. At least that is my impression.

I am basing my opinion of posts based on the history of the posters, not just in this particular discussion.

As far as my opinions about Israel, I have also been very clear that I thought hitting the UNWRA center was a bad thing. I also mentioned that the killing of the UN truck driver was a bad thing. I made no secret of that...I belive both sides need to stop the violence and that violence will only begat violence. Now, what is your criticism of Hamas, again?

I just went to the AP site and the headline and story are taken directly from there.

kinniku,

I think I've read quite a few of their posts. You seem working on the premise that if I had read exactly the same posts that you have, I would come to the same conclusion. I doubt that you believe that to be true, however.

Of course my prejudice is this: I almost immediately discount all claims of prejudice against Israel. That is a harp that has been played too loud and too long. It doesn't mean that prejudice doesn't exist. But it does mean that justified anger is often dismissed as prejudice.

SezWho2,

I am not sure how you would react if you saw the same posts I have. So, I don't have a belief one way or the other about what conclusion you would come to. I am merely describing my opinion about said posts and posters. Amongst the name posters I have never ever seen a bit of perspective from the Israeli side. Nor have I have seen any specific criticism of Hamas' position. In fact, the posters I referred to consistently take the Hamas side of the argument and some in this group have even claimed Hamas was not responsible for attacks for which even Hamas had taken credit.

As far as discounting claims of prejudice against Israel, may I suggest that were you to also immediately disclaim claims of prejudice against the Palestinians I would be inclined to agree with the perspective. Hot-blooded feelings run deep on both sides after all...

Speaking of which, everyone has prejudices and opinions and it is unrealistic to think that these do not come into play when anyone writes or says something. It is part of the human condition. I think it is impossible to say someone is completely free from bias. The idea is to come as close as possible to this ideal.

SezWho2,

Actually, I guess based on your postings I was kind of guessing as to how would you feel upon reading them. Maybe I was wrong about my impression of you. I don't know...

I just went to the AP site and the headline and story are taken directly from there.

Thank you for confirming for us that it is AP that has an anti-Hamas bias. Now we can better interpret the contents of the article.

The authors of the article are at the bottom of the article: Associated Press writers Ibrahim Barzak in Gaza City, Gaza Strip, and Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank, contributed to this report.

Ibrahim and Mohammed have contributed to this report, but I would not go so far as to say that they wrote it and that the version printed above is directly from them.

Amongst the name posters I have never ever seen a bit of perspective from the Israeli side. Nor have I have seen any specific criticism of Hamas' position.

Well, if I recall correctly our long discussions about the holocaust. I don't remember you posting any "perspective" from the nazi side or any criticisms of the "Jews". I wouldn't expect it and nobody would fault you for not doing so. So why is it so important for you to see a perspective of the Israeli side and criticism of Hamas?

Having said that, I believe I have very often provided "perspective" of the Israeli side; its just not the perspective you want to read.

As for criticizing Hamas, I can't think of anything with certainty to criticize them for. The positive steps Hamas takes are not widely publicized while their negative ones are over-publicized, sometimes falsely so. So I can't fault them for not having done this or that when maybe they have done this and that, but we just don't hear about it.

Well, if I recall correctly our long discussions about the holocaust. I don't remember you posting any "perspective" from the nazi side or any criticisms of the "Jews". I wouldn't expect it and nobody would fault you for not doing so.

Thank you for the comments. However, unless I am mistaken, you often faulted me for this exact thing on many occasions during those discussions. In addition, I don't remember you posting any criticism of the Nazi side or anything from the perspective of the Jewish side.

Having said that, I believe I have very often provided "perspective" of the Israeli side; its just not the perspective you want to read.

I specifically wrote 'perspectives from the Israeli side'. This specifically means trying to understand how both sides feel.

As for criticizing Hamas, I can't think of anything with certainty to criticize them for.

I appreciate you confirming what I wrote. Now, could you write something about these 'positive steps' of Hamas' that you just stated are not widely publicized?

In an interview Monday with the Arab satellite channel Al-Arabiya, Obama said he felt it important to “get engaged right away” in the Mideast. He said he directed Mitchell to talk to “all the major parties involved” and that his administration would craft an approach after that.

So Obama directs Mitchell to talk to “all the major parties involved" but then "Mitchell has no plans to meet with Hamas". Talk about change!

Anyway, this video gives a very disturbing view of what to expect from Obama:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qWXx2VYoqbU

Unilateral ceasefires aren't ceasefires at all. Israel's game is to always 'respond' to Hamas attacks. A childish 'they did it first' game. Of course, the 2 children Israeli soldiers shot the day after they called their 'ceasefire'...? Nah, nothing. Not important. I'm sick of the BS from both sides. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who supports either position is not using their brains.

Thank you for confirming for us that it is AP that has an anti-Hamas bias. Now we can better interpret the contents of the article.

You are welcome. At the very most, one could say that this specific article has an anti-Hamas bias, or at least the headline does. However, maybe you had better wait and see if Hamas takes credit or denies it before you decide. I know you have claimed in the past that Hamas did not do things (like the tunnels in November, which Hamas confirmed)for which Hamas itself takes credit.

Ibrahim and Mohammed have contributed to this report, but I would not go so far as to say that they wrote it and that the version printed above is directly from them.

Fair enough. It does says 'contributed' not 'byline'. However, this type of reporting is hardly rare. Are you suggesting some reason why we should not believe their contributions were not taken seriously by AP? Have these people ever raised such a complaint, for example?

However, unless I am mistaken, you often faulted me for this exact thing on many occasions during those discussions.

You are mistaken! I faulted you many times, but not for that.

I specifically wrote 'perspectives from the Israeli side'.

Yep, I provided that too. Such as when I wrote that Jews wishing to emigrate to Israel have to decide whether accepting the financial incentives provided by US tax payers to live on land from which Palestinians were displaced from is worth the occasional rocket attack.

However, maybe you had better wait and see if Hamas takes credit or denies it before you decide.

No, whoever wrote the title chose to do so without proof; and the editor accepted the title. He/she has a clear anti-Hamas bias. Whether it turns out to be true or not is irrelevant. We have to wonder whether the Hamas quote is true or not, we can't tell; it might be just as unsubstantiated as the title.

I know you have claimed in the past that Hamas did not do things (like the tunnels in November, which Hamas confirmed)for which Hamas itself takes credit.

I don't remember that!

Are you suggesting some reason why we should not believe their contributions were not taken seriously by AP?

We don't know what contributions they made. Was the Hamas quote written by them? Was it added or edited later. We just don't know. All we know for sure is that the title blames Hamas for the bomb without providing any proof.

You are mistaken! I faulted you many times, but not for that.

Actually, yes, you did. In fact, you went as far as to claim having such opinions and making such arguments could only mean that I was, and I quote: 'a member of a Zionist criminal syndicate'. I believe you also suggested I was somehow 'deceptive'.

I don't remember that!

Heh, on January 15th, you claimed Hamas was using a tunnel smuggling food when you also claimed the cease-fire was broken by Israel. In fact, Hamas officials asserted that the tunnel was being dug for 'defensive purposes'. It seems you don't even know what Hamas thinks of its own operations.

Your example of attempting perspective from the Israeli side is sorely lacking in perspective. To help you, it means to understand, or at least attempt to understand, the suffering and fears of both sides. I don't see that at all and can't say I have yet... In addition, as I asked you before, what financial incentives do you think people are getting for being in the target of the rockets? The rockets are going into Israel, not the occupied territories. I believe the special incentives I believe you are referring to apply to the West Bank, not Israel...That is why some choose to move to the West Bank (although it is not the only reason).

kinniku,

I'm not sure what you are saying when you talk about also disclaiming claims of prejudice against the Palestinians. Do you mean "discounting claims"? In any event, I really don't think that prejudice is applicable in the same way. Generally speaking, I think that when people advocate for the Palestinian side they are far less likely to assert general prejudice against Palestine than they are to assert American favoritism for Israel. I suppose you could call that a claim of prejudice, but to my way of thinking it would be at best a claim of relative and limited prejudice, not a general claim.

I also think that there is a damaging conflation--perhaps on both sides--that needs to be addressed. I think both Israeli supporters and Palestinian supporters have a tendency to get carried away and to confuse support for Palestine with support for Hamas or to confuse criticism of Israel with support for Hamas. I think people also get caught up in the notion that failure to condemn is equivalent to support. And I think they are not equivalent, especially in the face of a competing and greater wrong which merits a competing and greater condemnation.

There was an interesting (at least I thought it was interesting) opinion piece in the IHT yesterday about how words could end a war. I think it also appeared in the NYT. I'm sure you could find it if you google the phrase. In any event, I thought the article outlined what is perhaps a necessary solution for any peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

As far as I can see, a truce is useless if neither side is willing to give up what it most dearly values for something that someone else considers to be a suitable quid pro quo. I personally think that Israel has been in the greater wrong in this entire matter--not just in today's Gaza, but historically. However, it will not be defeated, at least not by weaponry. So the challenge is to satisfy each sides emotional needs so that a disposition can be arrived at.

Idiots... the lot of them. They nearly deserve each other.

To help you, it means to understand, or at least attempt to understand, the suffering and fears of both sides.

I thought I made it perfectly clear many times, that any so-called democracy (a shining example of democracy!) that chooses to treat others as animals for decades deserve to get rockets. According to a poll taken a couple of weeks ago, 80-90% (I don't remember the exact number) of Israelis supported this last carnage. So I couldn't care less about the feelings of the Israelis, just like you probably couldn't care less about Dr. Mengele's feelings. If by perspective you meant sympathy, then you're damn right, I do not sympathize with the Israelis. They don't deserve sympathy, they deserve a good kick in the groin!

You continue to pretend to view this as a balanced conflict where both sides share comparable faults. That is not a proper prospective. This is NOT a balance conflict.

Sabiwabi,

The so called Palestinians have been itching for this for a long time. They destroyed their own Government, killed their own security forces and elected terrorists to lead them once Arafat, who refused peace any opportunity out of fear that his funding from a greater Arab mandate of the destruction of Israel, would disappear, died. That is entirely how corrupt the PLO were and why the people bought into the Hamas ideology, which is also sponsored by Islamic nations sworn to Israels destruction. Abbas wanted peace, he was removed. Hamas wants war, they were installed. Historically these so called Palestinians have no claim to this land. They are not Philistines.

They are mainly Jordanians, another British invention. Even the 3rd so called holiest site in Islam is a sham. Mohamed never even went to Jerusalem and the dome on the rock is built over top of Christian ruins which were built over top of Jewish ruins, long before Islam even existed. Islam itself is derived from Jewish founding fathers as is Christianity.

Maybe that is the core reason for so much antisemitism. The true fact that the Jews are the basis of the two biggest religions in history and that not a Christian or a Muslim can accept that fact and would rather the Jews just disappeared so that they can own Abraham, and Isaac etc.

I am not a Jew, but dammit they can defend their identity to the bitter end as far as I am concerned. Christians wanted them dead, Muslims want them dead and all over identity theft.

SezWho2,

Please forgive the brevity of this post. Hopefully, at some point I will have time to address what you decribed more fully as it deserves to be. Yes, I meant discount, not disclaim. I think it is fair to discount the hot-headed reactions on both sides of the debate.

As you can see, there certainly are posters who see no room for criticism of Hamas and cannot find anyway to share Israelis' perspectives on the situation. This is what I was referring to and to what I believe the original comment by another poster was referring.

I agree that Hamas and Palestine are not the same and should not be seen as such. I will also check out the article you suggested. I am always interested in suggestions for a solution to the mess that is the Middle East. Thanks.

I understand that Israel is/has been bombing Gaza again in an attempt to destroy more tunnels. It's not like that didn't do enough destruction before. < :-)

sabiwabi: I thought I made it perfectly clear many times, that any so-called democracy (a shining example of democracy!) that chooses to treat others as animals for decades deserve to get rockets.

I thought you'd made it perfectly clear many times that the rockets were being fired by Israel and they were framing Hamas for it. Which times when you were making it perfectly clear should we be using? ;)

adaydream at 01:01 AM JST - 29th January Are you absolutely sure about this? I mean do you have photographic evidence & /or first hand testimonials from reliable witnesses? Remember you can’t just assume that because Israel has recently been bombing Gasa with the same kind of aircraft that these aircraft must also be Israeli. You saw the fuss that was made above in this thread when it took such a long time to work out if the headline was anti-hamas. Detail really is everything & you can’t just go about making assumptions, that really wouldn’t be fair, you could give perfectly good people a bad name that way, & I know that is the last thing you would want to do. Besides, Sabiwabi & Kinniku really need to get some sleep, they have been working very hard today & you wouldn’t want them to have to sort out a whole new issue about your assuming these aircraft were Israeli without proof. Now would you?

SuperLib at 05:49 AM JST - 29th January It might help your understanding of Sabiwabi to read the comment below. He said this in all seriousness a few days ago. I personally found it to be a deeply moving statement, which some might call laughter.

“I have often found them to state the opposite of what I believe to be true”

Bushlover.

Trust me, I am waiting with baited breath, & a giggle or two.

Trust me, I am waiting with baited breath, & a giggle or two.

Second time I have seen this mistake. Please, its "bated breath". When you say baited, I imagine you have just eaten some smelly fish bait, and that is why you have baited breath! Nasty! Please spell it right or find a new idiom.

I thought you'd made it perfectly clear many times that the rockets were being fired by Israel and they were framing Hamas for it.

I just said it is a possibility, we should not completely rule it out. Speaking of which, last night I watched the video of the bombing described in this article. As the vehicle approached the bomb location you could clearly hear "Allah Allah..." And then I thought, who benefits from this? I can understand someone (maybe someone who lost family members) wanting to kill IDF soldiers after what they've done. But why film it, while chanting "Allah...", and hand it over to the news station, right when the US envoy is coming to try to settle things? I could be wrong, but this is soooooo Mossad-like, especially with the secondary explosions to kill those who come to aid.

sabiwabi,

So I couldn't care less about the feelings of the Israelis...

Thank you for confirming what I had earlier posted...

I just said it is a possibility, we should not completely rule it out.

However, if someone suggests otherwise, you tend to act as if they must be part of some 'Zionist' plot. So, it seems like you were suggesting it is more than just a 'possibility'. In fact, as I pointed out before, you tend to guess incorrectly about such things quite often...

As to why they filmed it...who knows...Why did the people that cut-off those victims heads in Iraq and Saudi Arabia film and photograph them? Let me suggest the possibility that it makes for good recruiting videos and is also good for scaring people. That is one possibility...

Let's face it. It is turns out that a Palestinian group were to claim credit, it is my opinion that you would in all likelihood support the bombing of IDF soldiers anyway. So, maybe you shouldn't protest so much.

So what exactly are you saying clearly, Sabi? That Israel is firing rockets into their own country or that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel?

alas, continued massacres, denied atrocities, fallacious incongruities, what on earth does hamas has to do for us? each and every shot rings across the world, America has heard the thunder, and they, those terrorists, will not hold true.

As usual, Israel is expected to hold still and do nothing, while Hamas is free lob bombs and rockets at Jews.... after all, Hamas is democratically elected.