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Hamas rejects Carter's call to halt rocket fire on Israel for 1 month

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Hamas turned down his request to halt rocket fire on Israel for a month, or to help speed up talks on the release of a captured Israeli soldier.

Now, Jimmy, go and blame Israel for that.

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I wonder how this meeting will effect negotiations later; Carter has a history of inching things along between rivals: Egypt and Israel, for example, that don't have immediate results. It's intriguing and perhaps important that someone rise above the fray to inform and learn from both sides of a conflict.

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Sadat signed a peace treaty with Israel, and was murdered for that by muslim activists.

Jimmy Carter is clueless about the nature of the Hamas movement in particular and islam in general. As proven by the fact that he interprets the "hudna" offered by Hamas as an offer for peace.

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offered a 10-year truce if Israel withdraws from the West Bank and Jerusalem.

Absolutely classic! This is known as a hudna which is Arabic for cease-fire. It's during the hudna that the Muslim Arabs re-arm themselves for the next battle. You see, there is no peace with Muslim Arabs, only hudnas. Carter is so clueless.

hudnas with a non-Muslim enemy should be limited to 10 years: "if Muslims are weak, a truce may be made for ten years if necessary, for the Prophet made a truce with the Quraysh for that long, as is related by Abu Dawud" ('Umdat as-Salik, o9.16).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna

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This is a much more compelling and complete report published by the Associated Press, much more than anything we've seen from tha AFP. Hopefully JT will make it a permanent switch.

Egypt and Israel, for example, that don't have immediate results

Well said, fireant. I think in the beginning Sadat and Begin refused to even sit in the same room with each other. Carter had to go back and forth between them. That's how it all started, and by the end they managed to work out the Camp David agreement which created lasting peace between Israel and Egypt.

Carter now knows what Hamas' position is. It may not sound like much but it's just the starting point. Carter needs to get some dialogue going with Israel. After he establishes their position then we have a starting point, even if both positions are the exact opposite. From there concessions can be made by both sides and they can inch closer to stopping the violence.

Hamas statements about their plans to increase the violence is a concern, but it's not too late to try to get them to reconsider. Maybe the first victory in the peace process will be to stop that from happening, or at least just keeping the status quo.

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Hamas can not just stop doing what they do. It's like going into a fight with your friend and then skipping out.. They have too much at stake if they grant peace. I don't know why many don't see that. They are in this fight until the finish. The last thing they want or need is to start having fights with their allies.

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Zaphod - I posted my comment before I even looked at yours. Uncanny.

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Yeah, Helter Skelter - it's so much better just to keep fighting, as long as the "enemy" is losing more women and children than your side is. They're only muslims, anyway, eh?

Thank goodness there are people like Carter in the world as well as people with your level of 'enlightenment'

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Whatever frontandcentre. You keep living in your fantasy world where legitimizing and negotiating with Islamic terrorists leads to peace and harmony. I'll continue to live in the real world.

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You keep living in your fantasy world where cutting off your nose to spite your face is deemed a good idea, and where you expect Palestinians not to resist or object when their innocent civilians are getting shot dead or blown up on a daily basis. The real world is one where disputes are resolved peacefully - unless genocide is what you are advocating?

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"Hamas rejects Carter's call to halt rocket fire on Israel"

Mission Accomplished, Jimmeh.

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Frontandcentre:

"Yeah, Helter Skelter - it's so much better just to keep fighting, as long as the "enemy" is losing more women and children than your side is."

Israel is losing women and children with every Arab terrorist attack. Is that you what you mean? If you mean the Arabs, the population of Gaza has exploded from about 200,000 in 67 to about 2 million now. About 400,000 Arab residents who fled when Israel was founded, have multiplied to about 5 million "refugees" now, who demand the right to move to Israel and demographically conquer the Jewis state. Is that what you call losing? Dream on.

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I'm glad for Carter's effort. He tried.

I'm disappointed at Hamas. They have an opportunity to play nice and they refuse to play with all the rules/requirements that Carter is trying to negoitiate.

I still hope for future.

But I understand that nothing will be done this year.

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Palestinians not to resist or object when their innocent civilians are getting shot dead

If you actually believe Hamas objects when innocent civilians are killed then you have no idea what's going on.

The real world is one where disputes are resolved peacefully

Not with Nazis and not with Islamic terrorists, but I repeat myself.

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What a shame that this board is so filled with members of the blinkered Israel-can-do-no-wrong fan club. Both sides are guilty of using force, this is what Jimmy Carter - to his credit - has been trying to solve.

Zaphod - it is a verifiable fact that Palestinians are suffering far more casualties than the Israelis. It's disgraceful to imply that this is a fair fight, or to suggest that the average Israeli is at equal risk in his everyday life than Palestinians are. It doesn't help your credibility to simply tell lies.

Helter - I am not talking about what Hamas want. When innocent people get mown down by Israeli bullets, don' t you think that what the Palestinians themselves think might matter? Not to you, perhaps, but to most of us decent people, it does matter. Unless, of course, you regard the entire population of Palestine, women and kids included, as 'terrorists', in which case, your bringing the Nazis into it is probably quite apt

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"Both sides are guilty of using force..."

Yes, "Palestine" when they attack, Israel in defense.

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Yo F&C: "so filled with members of the blinkered Israel-can-do-no-wrong fan club" Nobody here is happy and doing back flips about any of this so stop baiting people.. Several posters here usually claim that everytime there is a terrorist act, its not really Hamas but the Jews.

Now, getting down to it. We have for as long as this issue has been coming up in this board what Hamas and their ilk are going to do. They are going to fight until there is not fight left. They are in it for the long haul and believing what they truley want is peace you are only fooling yourself. I am sure there are Israelis who feel the same, but it pretty much stops there unlike a lot of followers of Islam. Even far off countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia want to fight Israel and have taken action to show their support. If those events don't show you that this is a fight until Humanity comes to its senses, you are blind.

Your post to Zaphod, hey if the Palestinians have a lopped sided count, then perhaps it is THEY who need to really think of a different method of winning their war.

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Carter has done more to clarify the situation here in 3 days than the current U.S. administration has done in 8 years.

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Carter has done more to clarify the situation here in 3 days than the current U.S. administration has done in 8 years." Yup, he sure did. Everything is Israel's fault.

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"Carter has done more to clarify the situation here in 3 days than the current U.S. administration has done in 8 years."

And the 8 years before that? How did that administration do?

And your country , sushisake, what have they done for the poor Leftover Arabs squatting in "Palestine"?

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There really isn't anything to clarify is there? Do you really need clarification?

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Hamas had declared a unilateral ceasefire more than once in the past, but Israel has never respected or reciprocated any steps. Palestinian rocket attacks is a reaction rather than an action. As long as Israel does not grant an independent state according to internationally agreed 1967 borders Israel is a racist apartheid state according to the likes of Carter, Mandela and other anti apartheid activists.

Racial discrimination, oppression, apartheid is the crime against humanity and is what triggeres Hamas to fight back. Not the other way around. Besides people who sees this conflict as a cycle of violence does not see the bigger picture. This conflict is about an indegenous people of Palestine cleansed from its land and homes huddled in inhumane refugee camps and been oppressed ever since.

If Israel gave freedom to the Palestinians or treated them as equals and Palestinians still fired rockets then it is a different story but for the time being Israel is a racist oppressing state who carries atrocities and crimes against humanity on a daily basis.

While most people will say out loud that they are not racists or support racism their words are cheap. It is a flat out lie. Just like the US government. How they have grand speeches of how they want a 2 state solution with 1967 borders yet they support the Illeagal settlements.

Hamas is not a terrorist organization it is a National Liberation Movement according to Carter and many others around the world. Just as the various European resistance fought the Nazi occupation Hamas fights the Zionist occupation.

I cannot have said this enough times. There are more things I would like to say but it seems that it gets moderated. However. Supporting oppression and racism is often as bad as practicing oppression and racism.

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What did Mr. Planters THINK was gonna happen?

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at least israel went out and created an economy. maybe hamas should worry about this more so their people would not be starving. typical arab country alwasy blames others for their problems. look in the mirror. put the ak47 away and read a science book.

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George: Hamas was created in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin of the Gaza wing of the Muslim Brotherhood at the beginning of the First Intifada, which was created in 1927 and created it was in Egypt...., 20 years before Israel was created. So, obviously folks, we can see that the creation of Israel is not and never really was the issue, but the existence of Jews on the planet. They have worked with the Nazis, they shared the same ideologies, as can well be seen and they they were supported and elected to office in the same manner the Nazis were.

Carter, while not a racist, is an anti-Semite. That is a product of people from places where he is from. He is completely ignored, or hid The Hamas charter which states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad,"

Hamas is not a terrorist organization it is a National Liberation Movement according to Carter and many others around the world." Hmm...Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by Canada, Israel (ok, we'll leave them out for conversation sake,[8] Japan,[9] and the United States,[10] and is banned in Jordan - a Muslim/Arab country.[11] Australia[12] and the United Kingdom[13] The European Union lists Hamas as a group 'involved in terrorist attacks' and has implemented restrictive measures against Hamas.[14]

<strong>Moderator: Readers, references to Nazis are not relevant to this discussion.</strong>

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The puerile comments here about Jimmy Carter, whose only motivation is peace & security for the benefit of BOTH sides, sum up pretty well the sophistication of the arguments in favour of the current situation - i.e.there is no justification for it at all. All of the people pouring scorn upon him are really just apologists for the killers of innocents, whether they be suicide bombers in Israel or the bullets or rockets of the Israeli Army in Gaza.

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whose only motivation is peace & security for the benefit of BOTH sides" I would like to believe you, but Carter was a president of my country, not yours. He was accused of being anti-Semitic several times in the past. It is well know the left of today, which Jimmy is part of have taken a very active anti-Semitic stance in favor of appeasing Muslims.. Please bear in mind, Jimmy was a very Christian man - so you know he ain't playing with a full deck.

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frontandcentre - good post.

redacted - "And your country , sushisake, what have they done for the poor Leftover Arabs squatting in "Palestine"?"

We've heard all this boring 'your country' stuff many, many times before.

Can you come up with something original for a change? Thanks :-)

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skipthesong - please do as your name implies... you are sounding like a cracked record. Especially the worn-out, old "anti-semite" label attached to anyone who utters even the slightest criticism of Israel. Israelis have a right to self-defence. There - I said it. Hamas should not be randomly firing rockets anywhere, or allowing them to be fired. However, you are living in fantasy land if you think this can be solved without either involving Hamas in some degree of negotiations, unless your only solution is to kill all of the Palestinians, simply wipe them out. Funnily enough you never have time to concern yourself with the majority of people who are being killed or maimed - innocent Palestinians.

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Hamas, USA, UK, PLO, Syria, Jordan, Argentina and every country in the world have agreed on paper that Palestine should make a state using 1967 borders. 20% of historic Palestine. What Carter is coming with is nothing new. Every country in the world have been saying what Carter is saying including USA.

This conflict is the easiest conflict in the world to solve. Israel pulls back to the 1967 borders. End of story.

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How many years has half the world tried to do something about this and now with Hamas in power, its a new ball game basically. After Hamas agrees, goes, what ever, there will be a new organization doing the same. I don't have a solution, never did. What I said holds until further notice that there is no end in sight until a war has claimed every life there, including Jews or until someone comes to their senses and unlike you, your buddy George and others, you can not end this with only putting complete blame on the Jews.

<strong>Moderator: All readers, please keep the discussion civil and exchange views in a mature manner. </strong>

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it is a verifiable fact that Palestinians are suffering far more casualties than the Israelis.

Front your data is correct but your conclusion hasn't been proven in any way.

Over the weekend, militant Palestinians attacked the humanitarian aid supply line that Israel set up for Gaza. They drove two cars to the checkpoint and blew it up, but in the end they killed themselves only and no Israelis. Israel never fired a shot. Another two Palestinian militants attacked a fuel station at another checkpoint. They raided the facility (which, by the way, supplies fuel to Gaza) and were shot dead by the Israelis. In the end 2 Palestinians died and zero Israelis died.

The final tally from these two incidents was 6 dead Palestinians and 0 dead Israelis. Since more Palestinians than Israelis died, do you consider those numbers to be evidence of Palestinian suffering? It's a much more complicated situation than you're making it out to be.

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Oh you do not have a solution never did? Hamas, USA, UK, EU, UN all agree on 1 thing. Israel pulls back to 1967 borders and Palestine creates a state using 1967 borders. 20% of historic Palestine divided into 3. Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. Palestine controls their borders, coastline and airspace.

How can USA support a 2 state solution using 1967 borders and support illeagal settlement at the same time? Thats what hypocrits do.

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I am NOT "putting complete blame on Jews" - but since you can't be bothered to comprehend what I am saying, I won't waste my time trying to persuade you to take a balanced view

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Great post at 5:11, superlib.

Why is it "Palestine's" defenders here can never bring facts to the discussion?

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"Hamas leaders .... offered a 10-year truce if Israel withdraws from the West Bank and Jerusalem."

So they agree that Israel has the right to live in peace as a neighbor IF they return the lands that they captured during the '67 war, and Hamas still has the right to fire rockets at us Jews anytime they want for at least the next month.

It appears Jimmeh didn't do a damn thing.

RR

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George; let's say Jimmy's idea and all the other let's give trust first crowd do what you say and it doesn't work? What will the excuse be? I am sure you will find some Jewish fault, but seriously, what would say then? What is your guarantee especially since Hamas origins, the Muslim Brotherhood, date before 1967 and even date before the state of Israel was created?

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Carter has done more to clarify the situation here in 3 days than the current U.S. administration has done in 8 years.

Actually the article is saying that there have been mixed messages from Carter and Hamas since their meetings ended. If anything you're showing us how little you know about Carter and that any messages you write that include him are mostly just afterthoughts as you manufacture ways to insult Bush. It's my opinion that you've reached the point where you can't control your Bush fetish so I'm expecting your response to include another criticism of Bush with token lip service to Carter. Just put some more care into your obsession and maybe even read the article before posting.

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George: Ok, take a look at this and this tells you why you and Jimmy are wrong. "After the war the Arabs continued to reject Israel's right to exist and demanded that it retreat to the 1947 partition lines."

Ok, so you are wrong about just 67, after they give that, then it will be 47 and after that, there is no more Israel - is that what you want?

" They sustained this demand until 1967 when the rest of western Palestine was conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War, after which Arab states demanded that Israel retreat to the 1949 green line, the only "borders" currently recognized by the international community." Ah, but I am right again. It never stops. Kind of like a business deal where the customer refuses to pay and makes concessions and demands after the fact.

These borders are commonly referred as the "pre-1967 borders". The border with Egypt was legalized in the 1979 Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty, and the border with Jordan in the 1994 Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace." Still Hamas and many other organizations don't allow for that so many of your points are moot. If they move to the 67 borders that won't be enough, if they move to the 47 borders it won't be enough. The borders that were made between Egypt and Jordon won't do either.. So, my point sticks, there is no end to this until someone draws a line and it is accepted. Each side must be willing to give in - but neither Israel (the leading members of the old guard there not the young Jews who say go for it) nor the Palestinians nor will any major non-moderate Muslim country in the world will go for it...

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" Hamas, USA, UK, EU, UN all agree on 1 thing"

Hamas is backed by Iran - we know that they want to finish what the Nazis, French and Italians couldn't.

The UN is worthless. A complete joke.

The UK -basically responsible for the creation of Israel - isn't much better. Anti-Semitic crime in the UK and on the continent are at their highest post WW2 levels.

The EU is terrified of offending the 50 million Mohammedans within their member pseudo-states outbreeding the locals 3 -1.

So it looks like once again the rest of the world shakes their little fists and demands America solve the problem.

Every president since Truman has had to deal with this b.s.

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I won't waste my time trying to persuade you to take a balanced view" Man, look. There was a time when I was very pro-Muslim. Please bear in mind that I have lived in Chicago, I have attending Mosques there too.. I know more than what I let you in on.

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As president, carter was the sum total of zero. He is the one person most responsible for what we are seeing in the militant Islamic world today. It was carter who allowed the Islamic radicals to take over Iran and to later make fools out of America for 444 days with our hostages.

It was carter who patted himself on the back for reaching a peace agreement in the Middle East with the Camp David accords. And all that succeeded in doing was to get Anwar Sadat killed and elevate the leader of Black September, Yasser Arafat, to a position of recognized leadership in the militant and terrorist Muslim world of the Middle East.

carter even went and laid a wreath on that murderer's grave while he was over there this time.

He has bartered nothing. He has solved nothing. All that he has done is to further complicate the entire circumstance; while at the same time further aligning himself with the Vichy socialists in America and europe and the anti-Israel socialists and Marxists of the world.

carter, America's Worst President Ever, is in his mode that he'll always be know for: That of a total failure.

RR

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redacted: The best posts yet today..Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaam

RR: Ain't that something?

Thanks for the sanity guys....

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Hamas, USA, UK, EU, UN all agree on 1 thing.

They all agree that Israel should pull back to the 1967 borders in exchange for peace. It's the whole "exchange for peace" thing that you intentionally leave out because it shows that your position is actually opposite from that of the US, UK, EU, UN, Carter, Mandela, etc. It also shows how far you're willing to go to mislead people.

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Well, I really think Carter has been a much more effective ex-president than he was a president, and hope he can do some good in the Middle East.

Still, skipthesong is correct that Carter has been accused of Anti-Semitism in the past, rightly or wrongly, on more than one occasion. If anyone is interested, here is an old article from the Jerusalem Post, which concludes that he is not an anti-Semite. It doesn't offer a very positive view of him, however. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1164881982714

Personally, I wish Carter and his peace mission well, but there is some history there that might continue to make Israel have doubts about him. Knowing the history might help people understand the distrust that is being expressed.

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"Knowing the history might help people understand the distrust that is being expressed."

Who is the first to cry foul when Palestine, Lebanon, and Israel lock horns? The terrorist-loving people of Palestine and Lebanon and their global band of socialist/Marxist bootlickers.

Who is always the first to break the peace treaties brokered between Israel and the other two Hamas nations? Hamas.

Which of these nations are dead set against peace and loudly protests the peace talks? Not Israel.

But who does the global socialists and Marxists blame for the trouble in the ME though? Israel.

RR

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Israel has never started a war in modern times but have always retaliated when attacked. We are taught that any nation that does not defend itself when attacked is only inviting a more worse fate the next time they are attacked.

RR

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Palestine fires rockets into Israel and kills innocent women and children and Israel returns the favor. Is Israel blood thirsty for that?

Are we supposed to be the meek little lambs that people seem to always think Jews and Christians should be? We serve a God that expects us to love our neighbors but the Bible is filled with accounts where God fought back with His people.

RR

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RR: That is the thing. Israel never went out looking for a war.. They have never set out and attacked the Palestinians (which is a term that is more confusing than most think), and they never set out to take those borders... If the Arabs who attacked them cared about them, they would have either made sure they weren't lost, in which case the Palestinians can be said to have been used as cannon fodder, ro they wouldn't have attacked at all.

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skip,

Israel never went out looking for a war.. They have never set out and attacked the Palestinians (which is a term that is more confusing than most think), and they never set out to take those borders...

This just confirms that you either have no idea (or you simply choose to ignore) how Israel was created. Israel was created by force and it expanded by force. Israel never stopped the war they started.

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Carter seems sincere, trying to help those in need, whose suffering continues to be ignored by western powers.

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" In November 1967 the Security Council unanimously approved Resolution 242, the preambular paragraph of which emphasized "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."

is lifted from someone else's writing, george.

The exact same sentence can be found in an article by Noam Chomsky-wannabe Norman Finkelstein writing at

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11745

You should credit the author.

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Here is Resolution 242: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_242#Text_of_the_Resolution

At least read it before you misquote it.

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Farmer. I did read it since you haven't I can tell you a fact. Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict. USA has agreed to this to.

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Sorry the Wikipedia link above doesn't seem to work. Anyway, go to Google, search for Resolution 242 and choose the Wikipedia article. The text is there.

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1967 borders is the borders which have been agreed. The first step should be for Israel to pull back to the 1967 borders which also USA have agreed on. However there are other issues too such as the Palestinians who lost their homes and property in 1947-8.

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"However there are other issues too such as the Palestinians who lost their homes and property in 1947-8."

To the victors go the spoils, george. Especially when it is a victory over an act of aggression in all fairness.

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there are other issues too" Well, now you just criticized yourself..

Now you just admitted that the 1967 borders are not the issue and pulling back from them which they won fair and square, more like a lopsided fight in favor of the Arabs, won't do a thing..

Now we can all rest.

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There will be no right of return. Even Carter says that. Obviously it's a back door to eliminating Israel.

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If Arabs want Israel to withdraw entirely from the Westbank and give the Golan to Syria(the "return to the 1967 borders"), then it is entirely reasonable for Israel to ask for some guarantee for peace in return, starting with the recognition of Israel`s right to exist.

To ask Israel to withdraw into its already tiny territory under rocket fire and promises of holocaust is asinine.

Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon, and got... more terrorism. Israel withdrew from Gazah and got... more terrorism. Leaving the West Bank to become one giant Jihadist terror camp, pointint at the heart of Israel is akin to suicide for Israel.

Which is of course the the point for the muslim Jihadists like Hamas.

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I agree Sabi.

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The Right OF Return.

It is accepted in the New World Countries that the indegenous people were subjected to unfair treatment be it Canada, USA and such as. Once Israel accepts the Right OF Return it does not mean that every single refugee who were terrorised out of their homes will return but this would be a constructive acknowledgement.

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George, if Hamas agreed to lay down their arms tomorrow and negotiate a peace agreement with Israel that in the end would require them to give up their armed struggle and receive the 1967 borders in exchange for peace, would you consider them to be a failure? Traitor? Or would you support them?

How do you feel about the peace agreements that Israel has made with the other Arab countries? Are those Arabs traitors or heroes?

If Hamas makes good on their promise to increase their attacks but the result ends up being counter productive with exponentially more Palestinian casualties and less support from the world, would you advise them to continue along the same path?

What would need to happen in order for you to reverse your position and renounce violence as a matter of policy?

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One last question: Is it possible to support the Palestinian people without supporting Hamas and the militants?

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Khalid Amayreh says Hamas will not judge people’s religions and ideologies, and will continue to seek friendship on the basis of mutual respect and mutual interests despite erratic and stupid utterances by some ignoramuses who are members of Hamas. Hamas doesn’t actually consider Jews as enemies. In fact, Jews who support justice and true peace and who stand against oppression and occupation are Hamas’ partners for a better future for both Jews and Muslims in this tormented land.

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Sabiwabi,

Israel was created by force and it expanded by force. Israel never stopped the war they started.

Are you suggesting that, assuming that creation of a state by "force" is wrong, Israel has no legitimate claim on any of its territory? And if so, Israel could "stop the war" by giving it all up?

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We really shouldn't be so hard on Carter. The UN is equally hopeless. In fact, they are criminally incompetent:

"Armed Hezbollah militants warded off members of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) last month when the peacekeepers discovered a truck carrying weapons and ammunition belonging to the Lebanon-based guerilla group.

The incident was referred to briefly in a semi-yearly report submitted to the UN Security Council by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/976980.html

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Sing along with Jimmy Carter: http://www.pi-news.net/wp/uploads/2008/04/carter_jewhating.jpg

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