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Hands off my hijab! Young Muslim women protest proposed French ban

37 Comments
By Manuel Ausloos

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37 Comments
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"It's part of my identity. To force me to remove it would be a humiliation,

Anyone can wear whatever they like, next thing you know you'll be forced to use same clothes with same color.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Hoodie...

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sixteen year-old Mariem Chourak is a devout Muslim who considers wearing a hijab an expression of her devotion to the Prophet Mohammad, 

These writers need to learn about Islam. No Muslim is devoted to Muhammad, but only to Allah.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Nobody should be forced to wear a face covering.

Nobody should be forced not to wear a face covering.

It's extremely extremely simple.

Don't force these girls to do things they don't want to do.

Their body, their choice.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Burning bush......

Its the girls who want the face covering.

They should be allowed to wear whatever they want. And employers, schools, shops etc should be allowed to set whatever clothing rules suit them.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I cannot understand why they would want to pass a law that discriminates.

Because it makes non-Muslims uncomfortable, which is a form of discrimination.

Hoodies make some people uncomfortable too.

Face masks and winter full-masks/hats make people uncomfortable too. Here they had an exception for medical masks to be worn in public in the laws, but until 2020, almost nobody was seen wearing a medical mask in public because it made about 30% of the residents uncomfortable, due to history of the region. Of course, religion almost always wins in the courts, so there was a religious exception. Oddly, some nudists have a religion, but they aren't allowed to be nude outside their homes. Seems unfair to me.

When children display religious "signs", it is impossible to tell whether those are their own idea or that of an oppressive parent or religious leader. Some parents gift religious jewelry, clothing, books, and forced their kids to attend religious schools and training classes.

How can the "state" know if it is repression/child abuse or truly religion when children are involved? I'd lean towards only allowing adults to wear religious clothing in public and only if it doesn't hide the identity of the person. Hijabs should be fine, provided the full face can be seen. The same would apply to all hats, masks, worn in public. If wearing a hat isn't illegal, then covering up one's hair shouldn't be illegal either.

Anyone can wear whatever they like, next thing you know you'll be forced to use same clothes with same color.

Ok, I'm a nudist. I don't think anyone should wear any clothing. It is oppressive when I'm forced to wear any clothing in public besides footwear.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Its the girls who want the face covering.

Kipling,

I know, and I support them in their right to wear one.

Sorry but I think you misinterpreted my post, please read it again.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

And Catholic nuns have been doing wearing head coverings for years and in a different climate it wasn't considered "(It is) symptomatic of the constant policing of women's bodies, choices and beliefs that we have in France," she said, "as well as the instrumentalization of women."

Actually. nobody really thought about it at all.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

If face coverings are an expression of devotion, then how come the boys and men don't wear them? They aren't devoted?

Yep, this IS about "discrimination." But not the kind of discrimination the defenders are talking about. Kind of ironic, if not illogical, no?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Don't force these girls to do things they don't want to do.

Their body, their choice.

Their body, their choice for head coverings and vaccines. Anything else? A lot of “conservatives” don’t want women to have full autonomy over their own bodies.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Anyway they are a minority in France, yet the French news outlets talk almost everyday about them.

People in France are just angry about their defiance. Muslims are going to be the main talking point for the presidential election. Nothing moves, always political correctness.....

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Why would you want to live in France if it's not a good fit for you?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Even the Nazis didn't ban swimsuits.

This is twisted, fascistic and abusive. The government shouldn't tell people what clothes cannot wear.

This is less Fifth Republic than Fourth Reich.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

If face coverings are an expression of devotion, then how come the boys and men don't wear them? They aren't devoted? 

Another reason I hear for wearing it is ‘modesty’? Is it only women and girls who need to be modest?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

P. SmithToday  08:00 am JST

Don't force these girls to do things they don't want to do.

Their body, their choice.

Their body, their choice for head coverings and vaccines. Anything else? A lot of “conservatives” don’t want women to have full autonomy over their own bodies.

The difference is that when it comes to abortion, the unborn child doesn't get a say.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Parents should not impose dogma on their children

One immediately askes if Senator Christian Bilhac feels the same about parents teaching their young children about Christianity? If one follows his stated logic then all religious schools in France; Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or any other should be closed at once and religious teaching restricted to adults age 18 or over.

As for the face coverings, I struggle with this myself. The little guy on my left shoulder keeps saying "free choice". Not the governments business. The little guy on my right shoulder keeps whispering that women in the west fought long and hard for the right to vote, to own property and for equal rights in general. Allowing a religion to force female adherents to wear face coverings goes against 150 years of the woman's rights movement and is positively scary to those of us who emphatically do not want to see a return to the old days. Now flame away and give all those thumbs down I probably have coming. I am honestly torn on the subject. The way the French are posing the question appears racist and ugly. For me it's just that I don't want to see progress in woman's rights undone. I could care less what religion someone is. It is of no consequence to me.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

One immediately askes if Senator Christian Bilhac feels the same about parents teaching their young children about Christianity? If one follows his stated logic then all religious schools in France; Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or any other should be closed at once 

True, what’s good for one should apply to all here. There is an argument for getting rid of faith schools. I remember reading one view that you wouldn’t identify a child as a Keynesian economist child, a Libertarian child or a Socialist child. Why is religious affiliation treated differently?

Teaching about religion to children is useful but bringing them up in a particular religion is more problematic. There are religious schools out there which are teaching scientific nonsense to children. This is a disgrace.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

France is pre-dominately a Christian nation.

I think they want to keep it that way, as is their right.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

France is pre-dominately a Christian nation.

I think they want to keep it that way, as is their right.

France is first and foremost a secular Republic. They defend those values staunchly.

It’s in the article.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

France is first and foremost a secular Republic

That group is only secular as long it is inline with there view belief system.. secular for one means equal rights for everyone..they absolutely do not want that.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

This is the problem of colonialism. Imposing your rules in their country is one thing but if you then import the people of your colonies to your home country to do the poorly paid and dirty jobs you don't want to do, don't be surprised that THEY bring some of their customs with them.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

For a huge number of girls who wear them "willingly" they are often under enormous family and social pressure to do so. They are warned against being a bad Muslim and dressing like the loose good for nothing French girls.

I am all for free choice, but often that choice is far from free.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Now flame away and give all those thumbs down I probably have coming. I am honestly torn on the subject. The way the French are posing the question appears racist and ugly. For me it's just that I don't want to see progress in woman's rights undone. I could care less what religion someone is. It is of no consequence to me.

I fully agree, Desert Tortoise. Banning items of clothing is highly offensive, and as someone observed above, we never worried when it was just nuns wearing all of this.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I am all for free choice, but often that choice is far from free.

When a woman says, “I am wearing my hijab out of a personal choice”, who has the authority to say, “no you aren’t; take it off”?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The little guy on my right shoulder keeps whispering that women in the west fought long and hard for the right to vote, to own property and for equal rights in general. 

How does wearing a hijab negate the wearer’s right to vote or own property?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

France prohibited the wearing of Islamic headscarves in state schools in 2004. In 2010, it banned the niqab, the full-face Islamic veil, in public places such as streets, parks, public transport, and administrative buildings.

The thing is banned in moderate islamic countries, for precisely the reason that it is political. How strange that in Europe it is suddenly a personal decision.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Mr. Noidall

These writers need to learn about Islam. No Muslim is devoted to Muhammad, but only to Allah.

Yes, but Mohammed is the final prophet and perfect man to be emulated and not to be cartooned. Try to make fun of Mohammed and see how this non-devotion works out for you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It’s simple, French people. 16 year-old Mariem Chourak has explained it to you. She wants to wear a hijab, and it’s no skin off your nose if she does so. If you ban this, then logically you should ban the Jewish skullcap, the Sikh turban and any other sign of religious or ethnic affiliation. Prepared to do that? You either live in a democracy where you allow freedom of expression, even if you don’t particularly like it, or you don’t. Leave it alone.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

BigYen

It’s simple, French people. 16 year-old Mariem Chourak has explained it to you. She wants to wear a hijab, and it’s no skin off your nose if she does so. If you ban this, then logically you should ban the Jewish skullcap, the Sikh turban and any other sign of religious or ethnic affiliation

Alas, not so simple. Hiding the face is a different issue from wearing some badge. And the context for the extremist islamic tenting of women is entirely politicial, as the entire islamic world knows. That is why women in Iran were demonstrating for the freedom be unscarfed during the short-lived Iranian revolt, remember?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

While I'm for people wearing whatever face coverings they want but I feel restrictions should still exist in places that require high security such as banks, government agencies, hospitals etc.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why would you want to live in France if it's not a good fit for you?

Maybe because just ‘moving somewhere else’ isn’t an option? Maybe they don’t have tens of thousands of dollars to do it? Or a job lined up? Or knowledge of a language besides French? Or maybe they want to live in France because France is their home?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

WilliB:

The proposal is to ban the hijab. The hijab does not cover the face. The burqa and the niqab cover the face, and as the article says, the niqab is already banned in public places.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Kag

While I'm for people wearing whatever face coverings they want but I feel restrictions should still exist in places that require high security such as banks, government agencies, hospitals etc.

How about schools and public institutions? You want to be taught or judged by teachers or judges who openly demonstrate extreme Wahabism?

The French policy described in the article is the same as exists in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Azerbeijan, Tajikistan, and Turkey (although Erdogan has been trying to reverse that).

I wonder if the Burka defenders think that those governments are anti-islamic or are ignorant about what the Burka stands for.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

How does wearing a hijab negate the wearer’s right to vote or own property?

Requiring women to cover their head and face is an echo of the days before women had full rights. There was a time even in the US where only white males could own property. That veil, chador or whatever is an ugly reminder of times when women had no rights and for me at least it brings a fear that some religions and not just Islam btw, could try to push societies back and strip away women's rights one by one. I am old enough to remember when my mother had to cover her face to go to church. It is not just Muslims that are socially backward. You still have small Christian sects in the US that have forced child marriages. Less than half the states set a minimum age for marriage and there are small notionally Christian sects that take advantage of that.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A group of young women is running the #PasToucheAMonHijab campaign from the living rooms of their families' flats.

That part is telling, isnt it. That is as far as they are allowed.

Here is an interesting article by Anni Cyrus about about the hijab issue:

https://drrichswier.com/2020/02/06/the-fashionization-of-islam-by-aynaz-anni-cyrus/

I would think Cyrus has more insight into the topic than many of the commenters here.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I wonder if the Burka defenders think that those governments are anti-islamic or are ignorant about what the Burka stands for.

You've already had to have it explained to you what a burqa actually is. I don't think you're in any position to talk about the alleged ignorance of others.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Requiring women to cover their head and face is an echo of the days before women had full rights.

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance, but I’m unaware of a time when women in the US were required to cover their faces and heads, and that this was repealed when women were given equality (in law).

There was a time even in the US where only white males could own property.

Is anyone not owning property an echo of only white land-owners being allowed to vote?

That veil, chador or whatever is an ugly reminder of times when women had no rights and for me at least it brings a fear that some religions and not just Islam btw, could try to push societies back and strip away women's rights one by one.

I know you’ve said you’re conflicted about this issue, so please understand that this is a sincere question on my part. In what sense is dictating what women can or cannot wear not a way of reducing rights for women?

I am old enough to remember when my mother had to cover her face to go to church. It is not just Muslims that are socially backward.

I have never heard of this in Christian churches. That might be an outlier, but I think it is bad that your mother had what should could and could not wear dictated to her. I am against imposing similar laws re: the hijab.

You still have small Christian sects in the US that have forced child marriages. Less than half the states set a minimum age for marriage and there are small notionally Christian sects that take advantage of that.

How will banning the hijab in France fix these problems?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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