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Health care gains start soon — bigger ones later

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This is one of the the biggest landmark decision in my lifetime. This and civil rights are the biggest wins for the people. < :-)

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• Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS.

Probably the one thing every american hates about this bill including me!

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This is one of the the biggest landmark decision in my lifetime.

Really? For me it ranks slightly ahead of my decision to by my last car from a police auction rather than a regular used dealer. It expanded Medicare, closed some gaps that they've been talking about for more than a decade, and added a few bells and whistles that the private sector was already starting to do (my insurance company already accepts clients with pre-existing conditions and doesn't have an annual cap). However, they ignored several components that could have made it worthwhile (like allowing people to buy across state lines) and then added pages of special state deals.

Hope they repeal the thing down to bear bones...maybe add a few amendments that make more sense. I'm not against some kind of reform I just don't like this bill.

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This is one of the the biggest landmark decision in my lifetime. This and civil rights are the biggest wins for the people. < :-)

Out of curiosity, which people specifically are you referring to? The vast majority of Americans who despise the bill? Who have suddenly been forced to realize, that the best thing for America is now to vote Republican? Or some other group of less tangible Americans? Or are you perhaps referring to the Canadians who will soon no longer be able to come to America to get their needed, and timely health care? Yes, a definite win for the "people"

I was amused by a comment by Pelosi. She was referring to the health care bill, and going on about how by passing it, she and the Democrats were honoring the founders. My thought was, apparently her view of honoring the founders is to take the Constitution and use it to wipe her butt. Way to go Pelosi!

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For all the screaming and shouting, I can't see how this all amounts to much. It gives millions of people who were shutout of the system by cost or pre-existing conditions access to the system (good thing) by allowing them (aka forcing them) to take out private health insurance (not so good). It doesn't seem to do much about the fact that the USA has the world's most bloated and inefficient health care system. No surprise that US health care stocks were up on Monday, but that's what you get in a country where people don't seem to know the difference between socialism and insurance.

And what's with the no more health care for Canadians comment? I think it's great that Americans are willing to subsidize the Canadian system with their "world's best health care", who said anything about that stopping?

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I was amused by a comment by Pelosi. She was referring to the health care bill, and going on about how by passing it, she and the Democrats were honoring the founders. My thought was, apparently her view of honoring the founders is to take the Constitution and use it to wipe her butt. Way to go Pelosi!

I'm curiosu as to why the idea of helping someone else who is sick makes you repulsed?

Out of curiosity, which people specifically are you referring to? The vast majority of Americans who despise the bill? Who have suddenly been forced to realize, that the best thing for America is now to vote Republican? Or some other group of less tangible Americans? Or are you perhaps referring to the Canadians who will soon no longer be able to come to America to get their needed, and timely health care? Yes, a definite win for the "people"

Thanks to last night's vote, that child of yours who has had asthma since birth will now be covered after suffering for her first nine years as an American child with a pre-existing condition.

Thanks to last night's vote, that 23-year-old of yours who will be hit one day by a drunk driver and spend six months recovering in the hospital will now not go bankrupt because you will be able to keep him on your insurance policy.

Thanks to last night's vote, after your cancer returns for the third time -- racking up another $200,000 in costs to keep you alive -- your insurance company will have to commit a criminal act if they even think of dropping you from their rolls.

Yes, my Republican friends, even though you have opposed this health care bill, we've made sure it is going to cover you, too, in your time of need. I know you're upset right now. I know you probably think that if you did get wiped out by an illness, or thrown out of your home because of a medical bankruptcy, that you would somehow pull yourself up by your bootstraps and survive. I know that's a comforting story to tell yourself, and if John Wayne were still alive I'm sure he could make that into a movie for you.

But the reality is that these health insurance companies have only one mission: To take as much money from you as they can -- and then work like demons to deny you whatever coverage and help they can should you get sick.

So, when you find yourself suddenly broadsided by a life-threatening illness someday, perhaps you'll thank those pinko-socialist, Canadian-loving Democrats and independents for what they did Sunday evening.

If it's any consolation, the thieves who run the health insurance companies will still get to deny coverage to adults with pre-existing conditions for the next four years. They'll also get to cap an individual's annual health care reimbursements for the next four years. And if they break the pre-existing ban that was passed last night, they'll only be fined $100 a day! And, the best part? The law will require all citizens who aren't poor or old to write a check to a private insurance company. It's truly a banner day for these corporations.

So don't feel too bad. We're a long way from universal health care. Over 15 million Americans will still be uncovered -- and that means about 15,000 will still lose their lives each year because they won't be able to afford to see a doctor or get an operation. But another 30,000 will live. I hope that's ok with you.

If you don't mind, we're now going to get busy trying to improve upon this bill so that all Americans are covered and so the grubby health insurance companies will be put out of business -- because when it comes to helping the sick, no one should ever be allowed to ask the question, "How much money can we save by making this poor bastard suffer?"

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The article - the bullet points in particular - give the distinct impression that this site was pro-Democrat and in favour of nationalising US health care all along.

Very interesting.

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It's a reprint of a letter from Michael Moore.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/the-great-thing-about-the_b_507852.html

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Unlike the NY Times and other liberal organs of the legacy media - now basically the state media in America - Investor's Business Daily is still doing fine, in part because subscribers know their analysis is far more accurate than the competition.

It is eye-opening to compare AP bullet points above with some of IBD's findings:

"1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)

"2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).

"9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

"16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10 percent of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10percent multiplied by $2 billion, or 200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R and D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).

"The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9 percent excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405)."

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1563-20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms

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Mitt Romney is correct:

"America has just witnessed an unconscionable abuse of power. President Obama has betrayed his oath to the nation — rather than bringing us together, ushering in a new kind of politics, and rising above raw partisanship, he has succumbed to the lowest denominator of incumbent power: justifying the means by extolling the ends."

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Chotto @ 9:37 has been so busy patting himself on the back since Nov 08 he has overlooked if not forgotten, like nearly all progressives, the role that incentive plays, and the way it will always spoil the best intentions of pious, well-meaning leftist moralists: since coverage for preexisting conditions is now guaranteed by force of law, where is the incentive to keep paying monthly premiums????

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I kept looking out my window for the "health police" gestapo -thankfully they never came, but I had the constitution in one hand to hit them just in case.

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Odogma, how do you think the GOP is going to spin this outcome in November? Not only did they fail to stop this bill, but after Americans start seeing the immediate benefits, the GOP is going to have to explain their unanimous opposition to it.

The 'it's too expensive!' line isn't going to jive because at only ¥94b a year, it's bargain basement health coverage. So far, the GOP hasn't racked up any noteable achievements; meanwhile the Dems just notched up one of the most impressive achievements in 50 years.

Isn't that amazing considering your president is a 1-term senator and former 'community organizer,' a talent much maligned by conservatives but that was instrumental in the biggest GOP loss in decades?

The GOP 'Just Say No' policy is beginning to backfire, and the U.S. public is noticing it. Looking forward to November. :-)

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Those who refuse will face fines

Not about heath OR care, but control. Bye bye miss American pie.

This tyranny brought to you by, your not yet earned but taxed dollars, hard at work to insure not your health, but your defacto slave state status.

• COMING LATER: Do you smoke? Use tobacco? Do you drink soft drinks? Beer? Coffee? Engage in risky sexual behavior? Homeschool your kids? Drive an SUV? Own more than one car? Have you had a traffic ticket in the last two years? Do you use a cell phone? Own a firearm? Wipe yourself with tree products, encourage others to do so, or are part of a political organization that drinks tea?

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You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor.

And that guy will drop dead from a heart attack and never even make it to the hospital, while Mr. Healthy comes down with an incurable disease and lingers around in the health care system for five years before he kicks the bucket.

Young and healthy is a temporary condition. That is why there is health insurance. And that is why in every other rich country Mr. Healthy pays his money to the national insurance plan, not to some private company who will then pass him back when he is not young and /or healthy. The first way is called insurance, the second is called feeding the kleptocracy.

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I'll let you folks enjoy yourself. You sound just like the ones who were upset because Social Security was passed. Like when medicare and medicaid was passed.

I'm waiting to hear the republicans screaming to repeal it. I'm sure they don't have any friends or family members, NONE, who need the health care bills.

What about 14 states trying to stop it for their states? I'm sure there aren't anybody in those states who would benefit from this bill.

What happens when democrats in those states stand up and say, You're wrong we want this health care bill? What happens when republicans stand up and say they want it?

You think there are no republicans with children who can't get health care? You mean there are no republicans who are going or are bankrupt because of an illness? You think that there are no republicans who can't afford health care?

Then you don't want abortions, but when that child that should be aborted because it's deformed is born, you support insurance companies from covering that child. Pretty pitiful. < :-)

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Chotto @ 9:37 has been so busy patting himself on the back since Nov 08 he has overlooked if not forgotten, like nearly all progressives, the role that incentive plays, and the way it will always spoil the best intentions of pious, well-meaning leftist moralists: since coverage for preexisting conditions is now guaranteed by force of law, where is the incentive to keep paying monthly premiums????

It's quite entertaining to see the right-wingers frothing at the mouth at the prospect of helping out their fellow human beings. Every single point you raised is such a COS.

Oh. The outrage of covering someone with a pre-existing condition. OUR FREEDOMZZ ARE BEING ERODED!!111!11oneeleventy! It makes me want to take my gun into a hospital just to exercise my rights!

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This is a truly sad day for democracy in the United States. The selfish actions of President Obama will force America's greatest orator to abandon the US in favor of a life in exile (in Costa Rica - a country with universal health coverage). As such, we bid a fond farewell to Rush Limbaugh and ask that the he not let the door hit him on his way out.

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"Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS."

I have yet to hear discussion on how this will affect the millions of Americans living abroad, and have insurance in the countries in which they live.

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Odogma, how do you think the GOP is going to spin this outcome in November?

Harry Reid has an 8 percent favorability rating. Does that tell you?

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Just watch. It won't be long before U.S. women don't receive routine mammograms before age 50 because some faraway task force decided a 15% risk reduction (i.e. actual lives saved) isn't enough to warrant mass screenings.

I was lucky enough to have a mammogram at 40. Skipped a few years and had another screening. Double mastectomy at 43.

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Conservatives will quit their wailing when the next big issue hits them. Maybe it'll be when they get whacked with a $50k tab for urgent medical treatment that their insurance company refuses to pay for?? Nah, health crises like that only happen to Socialist, big government-lovin', Nanny State-hugging liberals. Doesn't it?? :-)

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It's quite entertaining to see the right-wingers frothing at the mouth at the prospect of helping out their fellow human beings.

Is it because 'rightwingers' believe that offering someone a hand-up instead of a hand-out is the real way to go? Nah, it couldn't be teach a man to fish he feeds himself for lifetime, give a man a fish and he eats for day difference in the core different beliefs between a liberal and conservative.

This bill is a fish a day and a pretty rotten stinky one at that but hey it's 'free' right.

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A question for Sushisake3rd and other non-American experts on US economy and consumer habits -

Coverage for preexisting conditions is now guaranteed (courtesy of America's historical enemies of liberty, the Democrats) by force of law. So, where is the incentive to keep paying monthly premiums????

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I have yet to hear discussion on how this will affect the millions of Americans living abroad, and have insurance in the countries in which they live.

I am confident that Barry Soetero, who lived for years in Indonesia and quite likely forfeited his American citizenship in the process, has your best interests in mind.

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Is it because 'rightwingers' believe that offering someone a hand-up instead of a hand-out is the real way to go?

Sigh.

No, it simply means that 'tree huggin' liberals' believe that nobody should make a profit out of someone dying from cancer. It also means that they believe that nobody should lose their house because of medical bills

This bill is a fish a day and a pretty rotten stinky one at that but hey it's 'free' right.

Better than the non-existant fish Americans have had.

Not everyone needs cancer treatment everyday.

Answer me these questions...

1) Why should anyone (insurance companies) be allowed to make a profit out of someone dying or being sick? How humane is it to have a PROFIT MOTIVE behind someone dying? SERIOUSLY????

2) What is wrong with everyone paying a little more tax to help out their fellow citizens in times of dire need /and/or essential medical care?

3) Where is the humanity in denying someone treatment for a bone marrow transplant becuase "it's experimental" / "any other lame excuse to get out of paying out"

4) Should the police dept and fire dept be privatised?

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Gains start soon - - especially if you are a Democrat politician:

" One such surprise is found on page 158 of the legislation, which appears to create a carveout for senior staff members in the leadership offices and on congressional committees, essentially exempting those senior Democrat staffers who wrote the bill from being forced to purchase health care plans in the same way as other Americans." [New Ledger]

So that makes another question for the experts here - if the bill is so good why have those who crafted it exempted themselves from provisions which, in violation of the freedoms guaranteed Americans by their Constitution, will be imposed upon a free people, by force if necessary?

Who are these Democrat traitors? Who do they serve?

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37 GOP lawmakers have pledged to try to repeal this bill. I say bring it on!

They'll need to spin even more lies to defend allowing insurance companies to deny coverage to sick people. I think among all the myths conservatives spun about this bill, the biggest one was 'It's too expensive!'

At just ¥94b a year? Really?

The next biggest lie was 'It's taking away our freedoms!' Like medical bankruptcy - that would have continued unabated had the GOP had their way - doesn't? Really??

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1) Why should anyone (insurance companies) be allowed to make a profit out of someone dying or being sick?

Why stop with medicine? Why should lawyers be allowed to profit?

Why should farmers profit from my strangely frequent - at least 3 times a day - need to eat?

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37 GOP lawmakers have pledged to try to repeal this bill. I say bring it on!

Are you American,SS3? What state? One of the 12 (9 yesterday) who will challenge the constitutionality of government takeover of health care?http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-22/twelve-states-plan-lawsuit-over-obama-health-overhaul-update2-.html

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Sigh,

Health care is a necessity not a right and just like food and we pay for our necessities according to our ability to pay or does liberalism next intend to go after farmers and start state run collectives which had resulted in mass famines everytime that brilliant idea has been tried and actually makes the good intentions worse?

Think about that one for moment.

Moderator: Stay on topic please. Farmers are not relevant to this discussion.

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Whoops!

Michael Moore was on the tube foamin' at the mouth because he just learned that 'insurance company profits' will skyrocket as President Obama that folks are mandated to pay for health insurance.

Insurance companies are undertandably quiet on this... which was there all the time if socialist engineers had stopped to think about it.

Now whattaya gonna do? Whoops...

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USARonin are you telling me that in the end Michael Moore didn't endorse the health care bill? He never said that this isn't what he'd like to see, but this is the best we have right now, so he endorses it? < :-)

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I heard him talk and he was ticked off. He said it only frees two thirds of the slaves. It only gives two thirds of the women the right to vote. It makes insurance companies profits skyrocket because folks are mandated by law to pay for insurance. That talk about slavery and women are his examples, his anger... his wake-up call that insurance 'big business' are gonna make out big time.

The boy's one crazy, unhappy camper, I'd say. But that's normal for him.

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You need to see this link then. He endorses it. < :-)

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/17/tsr.moore.ass.whoopin.cnn?iref=allsearch

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Restaurant chains with 20 or more franchises will be forced, under provisions in ObamaCare, to provide detailed lists of calories. There's part of me that wants to go back to my distant past, waiting tables, and have the chance to serve the Fat Marxoid Crockumentary Maker so I can cut him off at 1, 500 calories and explain we might lose our license if we let him eat as he once did...

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Why stop with medicine? Why should lawyers be allowed to profit?

When your immediate family member is turned down for their life-saving drugs, and lies at home dying, it's all good because you can pull yourself up by your boot straps! Hooray for capitalism! Each man for themselves!! Your loved one was just to weak not to beat the cancer themselves.

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I don't know what 'endorsement' you saw; I know which one I saw.

The Fat Man be unhappy.

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Not all medical care is a matter of life and death.

Keep in mind Chotto most of what you claim happened yesterday republicans supported like not being turned down because of pre-existing conditions, or being dropped because they don't want to pay your hospital bills. You also need to keep in mind that some of those parts of the bill, primarily the major ones like not accepting people because of pre-existing conditions and dropping them because they don't want to pay the hospital bill, don't take effect until 2014. So although since yesterday the bill was passed it won't become an enforced law until 2014.

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Correction, starting later this year insurance companies can't drop you because they don't want to pay your medical bills.

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When your immediate family member is turned down for their life-saving drugs, and lies at home dying, it's all good because you can pull yourself up by your boot straps! Hooray for capitalism!

Likewise, as Americans have learned having spent the last year reading up on the NHS in Britain or Canada's health care system, when a family member has to wait months to see a specialist and the disease then passes the inoperable stage, well then, hooray for socialism! You can at least feel good knowing that illegal immigrants get coverage.

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Chotto if you don't believe about the food being life or death look at haiti that can't feed itself because of US imports basically destroyed the agriculture there or the Somalians who are now expected to starve because of the militant groups forcing out the UN and other aid groups

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Chotto if you don't believe about the food being life or death look at haiti that can't feed itself because of US imports basically destroyed the agriculture there or the Somalians who are now expected to starve because of the militant groups forcing out the UN and other aid groups

You missed my point. Completely. Food that works has cheap options. Healthcare doesn't.

Likewise, as Americans have learned having spent the last year reading up on the NHS in Britain or Canada's health care system, when a family member has to wait months to see a specialist and the disease then passes the inoperable stage, well then, hooray for socialism! You can at least feel good knowing that illegal immigrants get coverage.

I've never once said the NHS is perfect, but at least EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO FREE HEALTHCARE. For non-essential operations, of course people wait, and I'd be human enough to let someone with a more serious need go in front of me, instead of the "me, me, me" American system.

Serious diseases/issues you do not have to wait. Socialised medicine!! ARGH SCARY!!!! I need to shoot something!

The Republican party is a good old boys club whos entire structure is very unified (unlike the Democrats). Their decisions come from the top down and their represenatives and constituents all follow the same line. The line they present is what is so great about their platform. It is all about fear, uncertainty, and doubt. They use FUD to wash over the real reasons why things like this will not work out for those that support the party. You can not go to an old guy on a farm in Missouri and say "we do not want to give everyone healthcare because big insurance companies do not want to cover the cost of those already sick" because that just would not fly. Saying something more scary, like "The government is going to take over who you can see and not see about your health" which is totally out of this world false makes the old guy tremble.

You need healthcare reform, whether or not half the country was brainwashed into thinking this is a communist trojan horse, or that they're gonna pull the plug on grandma, or this is part of Obama's Nazi agenda.

The rest of the civilized world is doing just fine providing a basic level of care to ALL citizens.

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Serious diseases/issues you do not have to wait. Socialised medicine!! ARGH SCARY!!!! I need to shoot something!

So shoot. None of your caricatures hit the target.

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...EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO FREE HEALTHCARE...

'Free', Chotto?

Please tell me how you your country has free health care. I want my country to have free health care, too.

How does your country do this?

(Oh... and ya doesn't have to yell at folks. We can reads ya just fine.)

*Damn... the commerical's almost over and '24' is on.

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Simple really. We pay a little more tax (less than health premiums) because we actually give a toss about our fellow citizens, so nobody has to pay for treatment at the hospital. And the funny thing is, is that when we get sick, we get pay through taxes we've paid in previously, and everyone helps each other out. Mind-blowing. And guess what? The most expensive life-saving drugs; how much? 6 quid. I regard 6 quid as practically free.

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I've never once said the NHS is perfect, but at least EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO FREE HEALTHCARE. For non-essential operations, of course people wait, and I'd be human enough to let someone with a more serious need go in front of me, instead of the "me, me, me" American system.

There is no such thing as FREE health care. You pay, and in many more ways than you imagine.

Compare survival rates for cancer or nearly any serious disease - - Americans receive better health care.

Americans want free market solutions, not a bunch of officials at the state or federal level deciding who is entitled to what.

The rest of the civilized world is doing just fine providing a basic level of care to ALL citizens.

As far as progress, standard practice and innovation in medicine goes the rest of the first world is and remains "civilized" in large part due to American innovation. In most categories of basic medical science, diagnostics and therapeutics American medical companies invent and bring to market more than the rest of the world combined.This will change with Obama's disdain for business and the entrepreneur and with his disastrous "spread-the-wealth" schemes.

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Odogma - "Coverage for preexisting conditions is now guaranteed (courtesy of America's historical enemies of liberty, the Democrats) by force of law. So, where is the incentive to keep paying monthly premiums????"

Where's the money going to come from?

Thin air?

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Americans want free market solutions

They clearly don't, because they voted in someone who promised otherwise.

You still haven't answered any of my questions I posted previously.

So I'll give you another one instead.

Why do you not want to scrap insurance premiums and instead, pay a little more in tax, to guaruntee everyone the best medical care and attention, should they need it?

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SS3, When I posted my comment about American expats and healthcare, Odogma didn't properly address my post but instead turned an opportunity to look at this serious question into his political spill. I didn't respond to "dogma" because it would have been off topic and I figure that is why your comment to him has been taken off the board. Anyway, as there are ten of thousands of Americans living/working in Japan, this new law must have some very serious questions that need addressed because, after all, by law all working Americans must file tax returns no matter where they reside. I did find some info on how this might/will affect expats from the following blog:

http://knifetricks.blogspot.com/2009/11/senate-health-care-bill-expats-exempt.html

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brotokyo: watch, we'll have to pay. As the vice prez says its our patriotic duty to pay taxes - even if our politicians always seem to get out of it.

its odd, that we in Japan already pay a lot into the Japanese health plan and now we are going to have to pay into the US's new plan and not be able to use it?

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skip..., Yeah, I believe the US will find a way to milk the American expat community. I suppose if one pays into the system then one can go back home to use it; however, getting the time off is another issue.

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"Americans want free market solutions" I beg your pardon!!! You forgot the Doha Development Agenda (DDA)? "Free market" is in America's mouth every day, but they refuse to cooperate in lowering and eliminating trade barriers. If the US build a "fence" around their soil, other countries will follow suit.

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The SC will be slapping this nonsense down. Without the federal mandate forcing Americans to buy ObamaCare, the entire law will fail. The democrats are counting on the forced premium payments from millions of Americans to make this ponzi scheme work. Without those dollars because of that persky little 10th Admendment, the legislation will collapse under the weight of its debt.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPADFNKDhGM&feature=related

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The GOP bet the house that the Dems would fail to pass this bill and lost. This has strengthened Obama, given the Dems signifiantly more clout going into the midterms, bought greater unity to the Dems, and shown up the GOP to be not much more than a selfish, naval-gazing collection of political misfits wracked by failure who should be ashamed to call themselves Americans.

That's change I can believe in. :-)

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Oh, and Sailwind - health insurance IS now a right in your country. :-)

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You missed my point. Completely. Food that works has cheap options. Healthcare doesn't.

No I didn't, your point was that people should not profit off of someone that is dying or is sick, well what about food, how about lawyers and justice? Farmers profit off of those that are dying of starvation, look at haiti or african nations such as somalia, American farmers profit off of the food that is sent to haiti that has ended up causing the agricultural system to collapse there resulting in basically mass starvation in that country. Should farmers be allowed to profit when there are people in the USA that go hungry or anyone for that matter in the world? How about bottled water, should companies be allowed to make a profit off of bottled water when it is now been proven that more people die of unclean water than from war?

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If I was a Lib (Al Gore, Michael Moore etc) and never took responsibility for my health I would be upset also. -and I do hope the ObamaCare health police jump on their backs and straighten these people out.

-Libs are always their own worst enemy.

But this healthcare bill is really about the kids and rooting out health problems in the young so they don't end up like Supersize-Me Michael Moore. I would also like to see better food choices made for schools. I am willing to do my part to make American healthcare the best and Americans the most healthy starting today. The return on investment would even make Bernie Madoff proud.

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They clearly don't, because they voted in someone who promised otherwise.

That doesn't mean they agreed with his public option. The fact that most Americans were against a government system that provided all of the funding for all Americans healthcare would suggest otherwise. Most wanted Health care insurance in terms of private companies but they wanted the costs to be lowered or at the very least have cost controls that slow down the growth of cost increases, they also didn't want to be denied coverage for preexisting conditions or be dropped because of a medical problem.

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Well I'm not read-up on this and since it doesn't really affect me I wasn't planning on it either - though reading the same worn-out arguments here I don't think many of you Aericans really know what's going on either it's just more hardcore partisanship hand-bag swinging.

But hey, look on the bright side - it's signed into law now so you'll all eventually waste less energy ranting about it on a website dedicated to Japan, quite of people will probably benefit from itat some point and obviously, it gave the Republicans another chance to say "No", unanimously, well.....err, once again! Not quite a win-win but not bad considering what passes for politics in the US these days.....

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There's part of me that wants to go back to my distant past, waiting tables, and have the chance to serve the Fat Marxoid Crockumentary Maker so I can cut him off at 1, 500 calories and explain we might lose our license if we let him eat as he once did...

Quit being so dramatic. It was only last week. And shouldn't you be helping the guy in drive-thru?

Taka

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"Health care gains start soon - bigger ones later"

The bigger ones that will gain later are the deficits and the debt.

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Sarge:

The bigger ones that will gain later are the deficits and the debt.

I don't think the Left is concerned at all about deficits and debt; and they certainly don't care about freedom and responsibility. They would gladly give up their own right to choose (except abortions of course) so long as someone else pays for the things their way. We can't just have a system to help those that are too poor or unable to pay, we have a health care system that forces everyone to do what the government tells them to.

The fact that the nation is nearing $14 trillion in debt and already has tens of trillions in unfunded obligations for existing social programs means absolutely nothing to them. They want their "rights" and they don't care how much it costs someone else to pay for them. For some reason, the Left doesn't think that it is possible to have too much spending and that national bankruptcy is impossible.

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ObamaCare gives the leeches feeding on those of us who actually pay taxes yet another excuse not to work: Welfare, food stamps, sudsidies up the wazoo; the list goes on and on and on.

Nothing like more wealth redistribution to encourage the lazy and useless to remain that way.

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Yeah dude. Those kids should be left to die. Why should the government do everything for them. Some people are so lazy.

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RomeoRamenII at 07:59 PM JST - 23rd March

The SC will be slapping this nonsense down.

On what grounds?

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Even the neo-cons have said they wanted a law that would prevent insurance companies from dropping a person who develops an expensive condition or refusing to insure someone with preexisting health problems. If what RR wants and many others on here have stated they want would happen, there would be no law requiring people to have health insurance. What would there be to prevent people waiting to get a catastrophic illness to buy health insurance?

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goodDonkey -

Even the neo-cons have said they wanted a law that would prevent insurance companies from dropping a person who develops an expensive condition or refusing to insure someone with preexisting health problems.

So pass that law, not a $5 trillion disaster. Even neo-communists would be happy.

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manfromamerica, I noticed you did not bother addressing the glitch I exposed in that kind of legislation (the last question in my last post). But don't even bother. I have no interest in people's opinion who dream of imaginary communists and are totally unaware of the real cost of these changes. It may be fun for you to talk about $5 trillion but I prefer to talk to the grown ups now.

Why don't you spend your time complaining about some of the real benefits that are being offered by this piece of legislation. I will give you a short list to get you started.

BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DOUGHNUT HOLE - Reduces the doughnut hole by $500 and institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1. 2010.

IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POLL) - Creates a temporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for several months or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE - Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

ENDS RESCISSIONS - Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient's policy when they file a claim for benefits, except in the case of fraud.

EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENT'S INSURANCE - Requires health plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice.

ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE - Eliminates co-payments for preventative services and exempts preventative services from deductibles from the Medicare program.

IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES - Improves the low-income protection programs in Medicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE - Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans from charging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING - Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies through review and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS - Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is in place and they can access affordable coverage.

CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM - Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES - Creates a $10 billion fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS - Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of the number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS - Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.
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Better spend this trillion inside home, for a good reason, that helps everyone: health, instead of spending it abroad, for a bad reason, helping only a few friends: WMD.

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gooddonkey- copy and paste from Axelrod's blog? LOL

No matter what you regurgitate, this bill as a whole is a disaster for the economy and for the individual.

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this bill as a whole is a disaster for the economy and for the individual.

manfromamerica at 10:58 AM JST - 26th March

You should be more worried about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7PCV448

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Economic reality - the online Left "reality-based" community's old nemesis, strikes again. Interview with CEO of Aetna:

"Will insurance premiums go up? The answer is yes, and some of the things that will drive those premiums are significant additional taxes the industry will ultimately have to pay in the first year."
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