Israel battles Hamas near another Gaza hospital sheltering thousands

It has become difficult to assess whether the so-called "Intelligence" of the IDF is fact or not, these days, given contrary footage and analysis - especially the "Calendars upon the Wall" one.

And how do you separate/draw comparison, (between the past construction of a Bomb Shelter within a building, given the History of Gaza); versus an elaborate interconnected Tunnel system used by the Hamas Terrorists ?

Apologies in advance, to anyone associated with the Jewish peoples for my raising such questions - this isn't intended to be anti-sematic, but merely, fact questioning, which I understand - can be hard to do, especially in times of War.... One has to wonder, whether , the need for such justifications, should just be simply left, until the end of the conflict, when all the Gaza Terrorists have been eliminated... something perhaps the IDF should now consider having stepped over the precipice.

Everything is a base of terrorist operations according to the IDF. No evidence required.

Everything is a base of terrorist operations according to the IDF. No evidence required.

Exactly. With that senile Biden just poodleing along

The advance came as 28 premature babies evacuated from Gaza City's Shifa Hospital by the World Health Organization were transported to Egypt on Monday. Three others were transferred to an Emirati-run hospital in Rafah in southern Gaza, the Red Crescent said. More than 250 critically ill or wounded

More than 12,700 Palestinians, including more than 5,000 minors and 3,250 women, have been killed in Gaza

Geneva convention just don't apply to them anymore.

 given contrary footage and analysis - especially the "Calendars upon the Wall" one.

They even use deception propaganda to public, even when they being caught lying to public and blaming journalist should ask their permission first before really publishing materials.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/information-missteps-led-questions-israels-credibility-rcna125723

https://www.tiktok.com/@liberationrus/video/7301370093836061982

President Biden has stated there must be a two-state solution. The West Bank and Gaza united and under a single Palestinian authority.

President Biden has stated there must be a two-state solution.

He can state whatever he wants. Israel will decide if that happens or not.

The West Bank and Gaza united and under a single Palestinian authority.

That would be a good idea as long as the Palestinians can agree on a single leading authority figure that they can stand behind and follow. Do that first and see if that is at least doable, then the next step, to bring up talks about a possible two state solution.

Wonder how people are gonna defend this one. The last hospital battle didn't exactly bear any evidence that the IDF's intelligence was even remotely correct and goalposts have continually been moved since then.

bass4funk

President Biden has stated there must be a two-state solution.

> He can state whatever he wants. Israel will decide if that happens or not.

Biden holds the Israeli purse strings and the weapons and ammo needed.

Will Hamas ever release the 240 plus innocent civilians it kidnapped from Israel?

Biden holds the Israeli purse strings

And Biden won’t be President forever.

and the weapons and ammo needed.

He could try and hit another nail in his coffin were he to even attempt to do something like that because some of the most powerful Jewish donors in the nation would make him regret such a move.

Will Hamas ever release the 240 plus innocent civilians it kidnapped from Israel?

This has been on the cards, but Israel refused the terms of a 5-day ceasefire. Israel needs the hostages to stay hostages to maintain this current operation in Gaza.

He could try and hit another nail in his coffin were he to even attempt to do something like that because some of the most powerful Jewish donors in the nation would make him regret such a move.

doesn't matter. The donors don't get more votes than the average person on the street.

Wonder how people are gonna defend this one. The last hospital battle didn't exactly bear any evidence that the IDF's intelligence was even remotely correct and goalposts have continually been moved since then.

The US just doesn't care. Biden doesn't care. And as long as he's got Israel's back, Israel doesn't care.

This has been on the cards, but Israel refused the terms of a 5-day ceasefire.

If Hamas were smart (and they’re not) they would release the hostages instead of hiding behind them, but the outcome and destruction we are now seeing is because of them.

Israel needs the hostages to stay hostages to maintain this current operation in Gaza.

True, but they already found a few that were killed, and since Hamas doesn’t have a good reputation for being truthful it’s hard to ascertain who is still alive.

Any side by side two state solution is a political pipe dream, when the Government of Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah Iran refuse point blank to ever accept such a proposal......

To be clear........

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. The boundary between the two states is still subject to dispute and negotiation, but it is mainly based on the 1967 lines.

I think it is important to fully accept no outside influence would or could be able to force or even politically build a framework to find a resolution to the current ever more devastating war/conflict.

Any thought of establishing two states for two peoples that harbor such deep seated distrust resentment for each other very existence could display a naivety bordering on dishonesty.

If Hamas were smart (and they’re not) they would release the hostages instead of hiding behind them, but the outcome and destruction we are now seeing is because of them.

I agree that they should release the hostages, and I think everyone can agree that hiding behind the hostages has been a catastrophic failure. No precautions have been taken for their sake on behalf of the IDF.

However, I disagree that Israels bloody vengeance is justified. The killing of innocents is never justified, whether it be at the hands of Hamas, the IDF, Russia, The US, or anyone else.

War crimes pure and simple with very little to no evidence to justify the slaughter an attacks on hospitals and schools. Not allowed to complain or you are antisemitic! What the hell has anti-Semitism got to do with questioning the genocide being committed??

Unless Hamas release those hostages expect no quarter from the government of Israel or IDF forces. Soon to carry out an miliary offensive to the south.

What will be left of Gaza that could be described or ever create a Palestinian State is a more pretendant question.

Self governing? .....

More under a strict surveillance criteria, associated with any occupational force, and likeminded system of governance.

Needs to be a full quota of independent UN observers on the ground with guaranteed protection, tasked and able to fully assess the propaganda war be waged by both Hamas/IDF.

Awful lot of looking the other way, shockingly fiddling while the Middle East could burn descend into all out war.

What will be left of Gaza that could be described or ever create a Palestinian State is a more pretendant question.

What is left of Gaza will most likely be used as an oil and natural gas refinery for all of those lovely resources located off the coast of Gaza. Its funny how everything always boils down to one thing in war.

If it continues there will be an Arab and Muslim explosion in the Middle East. Tenterhooks.

There is no "slaughter" in hospitals and schools. Rather, the Israelis are evacuating and caring for the patients, in spite of Hamas. Hamas has been using hospitals and schools for their terrorist activities for a decade, it is well known and well documented. Do you think Israel just attacks hospitals for the fun of it? Don't be daft. They get enough unwarranted negative press as it is.

The video of Hamas bringing kidnapped hostages through the hospital lobby on October 7 is telling. Obviously this was planned ahead of time. No evidence of hospital staff pushing back or forbidding them entry. This alone makes the hospital a valid target.

If it continues there will be an Arab and Muslim explosion in the Middle East. Tenterhooks.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm looking at the Arab news channels and it looks like we literally are on the brink.

Human shields "" not working as civilian death toll mounts.

Maybe the victims are/were human but not shields ?

IDF needs another slogan/justification for kid killing.

Netanyahu is spending Israel's Holocaust capital like there's no tomorrow while the patience of the world and the understanding of people of goodwill have already passed the tipping point. Crying wolf (Hamas) every time a hospital is destroyed is doing them no favors as the credulity of the world is strained for all except for those fanatics who equate criticism of the Israeli government with anti-semitism. Whatever, the window of opportunity for killing Gazans is now fast closing as the humanitarian catastrophe the IDF have created has turned the stomach of humanity and has started to give Biden & friends sleepless nights. Time to call Game Over!, Mr President.

Not at all, reamer. Most people understand that Israel is fighting against terrorist cowards, who hide behind women's skirts and children instead of fighting like men. The great lengths that the IDF has gone to in order to minimize civilian casualties speak volumes to the righteousness of their cause.

I was especially happy to hear Netanyahu promise to hunt Hamas leaders and supporters down, wherever they are. Not just in Gaza. The fat cats enjoying their luxury lives in Doha and Paris must be quaking in their stolen boots.

However, I disagree that Israels bloody vengeance is justified.

Ok, so they should talk to Hamas and ask them to politely surrender…

The killing of innocents is never justified, whether it be at the hands of Hamas, the IDF, Russia, The US, or anyone else.

No, but tell me a time in war and in history where children were never killed.

Most people understand that Israel is fighting against terrorist cowards, who hide behind women's skirts and children instead of fighting like men.

Historically, can you provide some examples of resistance fighters fighting an open pitched battle ?

Biden holds the Israeli purse strings 

And Biden won’t be President forever.

it appears Biden holds Bibi in higher esteem than DJT does. Seems Trump really dislikes Bibi. But you know who he speaks quite glowing of? Mahmoud Abbas.

The Abraham Accords that Bibi is presently destroying beyond hope of repair were DJT’s crown jewel. Not sure how you’re not noticing this, Bass.

Paustrovsky, calling the Hamas cowards "resistance fighters" is an obscenity.

I don't know many resistance fighters who dismembered babies, raped their victims until their pelvic bones broke, tortured children in front of their parents, and so on.

But many resistance groups actually targeted the military of their enemies. The French resistance in WW2, for example, targeted the German army. They did not invade Germany and slaughter the innocent. The Philippine resistance similarly targeted the Japanese military, not civilians.

Nor do any resistance groups hide in hospitals, as Hamas does.

Targeting and killing people in a refugee camp?

Israeli government truly does not have any shame…

PaustovskyToday  10:02 am JST

Most people understand that Israel is fighting against terrorist cowards, who hide behind women's skirts and children instead of fighting like men.

Historically, can you provide some examples of resistance fighters fighting an open pitched battle ?

Historically, “resistance fighters” didn't purposely target, rape, maim, burn and behead innocent civilians. While I do think Che Guevara was a filthy, racist piece of dirt, when him and Castro were overthrowing the Cuban government, they targeted military and government installations. Despite my differences with them, they were actual “resistance” fighters. These guys are butchers, plain and simple.

"Israel has repeatedly ordered Palestinians to leave northern Gaza and seek refuge in the south, which has also been under aerial bombardment since the start of the war. Some 1.7 million people, nearly three quarters of Gaza’s population, have been displaced, with 900,000 packing into crowded U.N.-run shelters, according to the U.N. Strikes in the Nuseirat and Bureij refugee camps Monday killed at least 40 people, according to hospital officials, and residents said dozens more were buried in the rubble. "

Everyone should evacuate to the south , it is more convenient for us to bomb you there, thanks, IDF.

Most people understand that Israel is fighting against terrorist cowards, who hide behind women's skirts and children instead of fighting like men.

Historically, can you provide some examples of resistance fighters fighting an open pitched battle ?

Paustovsky talks sense. Military science uses the anti-septic term "asymmetrical warfare". I would add that the obvious cowards are the inhuman politicians whose thumbs up start all the destruction of countless human lives. Dishonorable mention must also be made of pilots who drop bombs and rain rockets on defenseless civilians thousands of metres below. Gaza has wiped Guernica off the map as a symbol of barbarity.

"More than 12,700 Palestinians, including more than 5,000 minors and 3,250 women, have been killed in Gaza, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry in the West Bank said Monday, which coordinates with officials in the Health Ministry of Hamas-run Gaza. Officials there say another 4,000 are missing and believed buried in rubble. Their counts do not differentiate between civilians and combatants. Israel says it has killed thousands of militants but has given no evidence of its count."

Most people would take a guess that the 9000 killed and 4000 missing ( killed and burried under the rubble ) children and women were not Hamas combatants.

Reamer, I agree that those who started this war should and will be brought to justice. The billionaires in Qatar who cheerlead for Hamas and advocate 'martyrdom' while living in luxury suites at the Sheraton. Rest assured, they will be taken care of. Mossad are pretty good at making such filth achieve room temperature.

The killing of innocents is never justified, whether it be at the hands of Hamas, the IDF, Russia, The US, or anyone else.

No, but tell me a time in war and in history where children were never killed.

So easy to spout nonsense like this from the comfort of your home while your own family is safe and sound. If your entire bloodline was wiped out by an occupying force you'd be singing a different tune.

"The US just doesn't care. Biden doesn't care. And as long as he's got Israel's back, Israel doesn't care."

Joe cares about his sliding approval numbers so he utters phrases about Gaza civilian casualties for domestic audience but at the same time keeps supplying weapons to IDF and does nothing to actually restrain Netanyahu. Pure hypocricy.

Will Hamas ever release the 240 plus innocent civilians it kidnapped from Israel?

Will Israel ever release the 5000 plus innocent civilians it kidnapped from Palestine? Actually we should also consider the entire population of Gaza as hostages of israel.

Historically, “resistance fighters” didn't purposely target, rape, maim, burn and behead innocent civilians.

Indeed, and neither does Hamas. You know, you shouldn't automatically believe everything israeli authorities say.

Resistance is what it is. By any means necessary. If you were born in Gaza would you be wearing a redcoat in formation or firing from the woods ?

it appears Biden holds Bibi in higher esteem than DJT does.

On the outside and to the world viewers, perhaps, behind closed doors is a very different story.

Seems Trump really dislikes Bibi.

He dislikes how he didn’t keep his word, Trump never said he hated the guy. Friends can and should criticize one another if they are wrong.

But you know who he speaks quite glowing of? Mahmoud Abbas.

Which he can if he wants.

The Abraham Accords that Bibi is presently destroying beyond hope of repair were DJT’s crown jewel.

Which would have never materialized if Biden were the President back then.

Not sure how you’re not noticing this, Bass.

I do, but I tend to look deeply into these things and not rush when the first criticism comes out.

I think the two-state solution is impossible, considering how much the israelis have taken. The only way to go would be a one-state solution with a right of return, and with everyone having equal rights.

If it continues there will be an Arab and Muslim explosion in the Middle East. Tenterhooks.

Indeed, I get the impression israel is intentionally being so awful because they want to trigger a response from its neighbours. I believe the US buildup in the Mediterranean is meant for attacks against Iran, Lebanon, Syria... not just to protect israel from Hamas and Hezbollah.

"Everything is a base of terrorist operations according to the IDF. No evidence required. - Exactly. With that senile Biden just poodleing along"

According to some analysts targeting Gaza hospitals is a calculated IDF strategy.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/20/why-does-israel-target-palestinian-hospitals-psyops-say-analysts

Gaza's hospitals play a prominent role in the battle of narratives over the war's brutal toll on Palestinian civilians…

The battle of narratives so far, apparently, is the information that Israel reports later is confirmed as accurate while Hamas falsehoods are repeated by the mainstream press as truth.

"Wonder how people are gonna defend this one. The last hospital battle didn't exactly bear any evidence that the IDF's intelligence was even remotely correct and goalposts have continually been moved since then."

It seems there was actually a playbook created to teach supporters what language to use and how to defend what is currently going on. according to AlJazeera. This article is an interesting read,

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/20/israel-gaza-and-the-mass-production-of-myths-for-mass-media

Israel targets hospitals because the Hamas cowards hide in them and use them to store weapons. Simple. And proven for many years. Amazing how the hospitals are still standing after being "targeted" though. Now, if Hamas were to "target" a hospital in Israel, I wonder how the patients woud fare.....

Paul, if I were born in Gaza, hopefully at first I could avoid being brainwashed by the insidious propaganda that is pumped into everyone from birth, through their schooling, and in the media. I would wonder why the billions of dollars in aid money was not spent on my welfare, and on developing a viable economy. I would wonder why billionaires who are my supposed 'leaders' are living in luxury in Qatar while I struggle. I would NOT wonder how many Jews I could kill, nor would I wonder whether or not I should carry dead victims of my crime back to my home territory as some kind of twisted battle trophy.

Trump blamed Netanyahu fro the Hamas attacks.

Trump blamed Netanyahu fro the Hamas attacks.

He’s not entirely wrong in that criticism.

Paul, if I were born in Gaza, hopefully at first I could avoid being brainwashed by the insidious propaganda that is pumped into everyone from birth, through their schooling, and in the media. I would wonder why the billions of dollars in aid money was not spent on my welfare, and on developing a viable economy. I would wonder why billionaires who are my supposed 'leaders' are living in luxury in Qatar while I struggle. I would NOT wonder how many Jews I could kill, nor would I wonder whether or not I should carry dead victims of my crime back to my home territory as some kind of twisted battle trophy.

So somehow, miraculously you would exist amongst 2.5 million people, trapped within 45 sq. km. and be completely oblivious to the encroaching occupation from an aggressive, armed, colonising people like they were some kind of imaginary, benign entity.

You wouldn't be in formation in a redcoat or firing from the woods. You would be looking at a cow in the distance wondering why it is so small.

So, the invading Israeli regime's forces are attacking another functioning hospital...which is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Paus, Israel was NOT encroaching on Gaza. Gaza is not colonized. In fact, the last Jew LEFT Gaza in 2005. In a hope to encourage peace. They left behind the means and tools to make the desert bloom, the makings of a good economy and chance for a better future.

The Gazans responded by choosing Hamas as their leaders and firing rockets into Israel.

And no matter where I stood, I would not be shooting at children, nor would I be raping innocent women and shooting them while I committed the act. That is what Hamas does, and brags about.

No, but tell me a time in war and in history where children were never killed.

There is no justification. The fact that children die in wars doesnt justify the killing of children. Any military action taken that results in the death of children, or any innocent people is disgusting.

Ok, so they should talk to Hamas and ask them to politely surrender…

They should take a approach that doesnt endanger the lives of so many children and innocent civilians. Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world, and their best strategy is to carpet bomb one of the most densely populated cities in the world.

Answer me this, would the IDF adopt the same strategy if Hamas militants were hiding hostages in Tel Aviv?

It seems there was actually a playbook created to teach supporters what language to use and how to defend what is currently going on. according to AlJazeera. This article is an interesting read, - La vie douce

This sort of propaganda is usually referred to as 'Hasbara' which is Hebrew for explanation. Google it and you'll find multiple guides and handbooks that have existed for decades.

It's a relief to see that people are finally starting to see through the propaganda. It's astonishing how clumsy so much of it is. To the point of it actually being quite condescending and disdainful in how much BS they think the goys will swallow.

As Israel continues to act with impunity in increasingly atrocious ways even their usually effective propaganda seems to be finding its limits.

Trump never said he hated the guy.

he said I don’t think Bibi wants peace. That’s what he said, Bass.

There is no justification. The fact that children die in wars doesnt justify the killing of children.

I never claimed it did, I said, tell me a time in history where children weren’t killed in a massive war

Any military action taken that results in the death of children, or any innocent people is disgusting.

We all know this, that’s just a part of war.

They should take a approach that doesnt endanger the lives of so many children and innocent civilians.

How? Be specific.

Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world, and their best strategy is to carpet bomb one of the most densely populated cities in the world. 

They didn’t carpet bomb anyone if they did, the place would not be standing.

Answer me this, would the IDF adopt the same strategy if Hamas militants were hiding hostages in Tel Aviv?

I don’t know because the IDF wouldn’t hide behind children for any political cause.

he said I don’t think Bibi wants peace. That’s what he said, Bass.

Again, Trump never stated that he hated the guy.

I do, but I tend to look deeply into these things and not rush when the first criticism comes out.

clearly you don’t. You think you do, but you don’t.

Bibi et al is presently doing more damage to Israel’s national interest than Hamas alone could have ever dreamed of. You have this very mistaken view that Hamas must survive to win.