Hong Kong, China step up security on Tiananmen crackdown anniversary

Only selected tragedies are commemorated in China. WWII is rightly remembered, but only because it is foreign caused. But the internal CCP caused tragedy of Tiananmen square is hushed up so that newer generations know nothing about it. The CCP are not the sort of people you want to run your country. Despicable people.

As much as China wants to erase the tiananmen massacre from history, their constant censorship has only brought more attention of the Chinese military massacring their own people.

@Peter14 Thanks for the expert analysis. I lived in Beijing in the mid 1980s. I left in 1987 and visited in the summer of 1990 and met with some of my former students. It was very sad chapter of Chinese modern history. Beijing remembers.

RIP to brave young Chinese students and other victims. 六四事件别忘记.

deanzaZZRToday 04:12 pm JST

@Peter14 Thanks for the expert analysis.

You are welcome.

I lived in Beijing in the mid 1980s. I left in 1987 and visited in the summer of 1990 and met with some of my former students. It was very sad chapter of Chinese modern history. Beijing remembers.

I like everyone, watched in horror as the tank column was challenged by a lone Chinese citizen carrying a bag in one hand. TV coverage stopped soon afterwards and the news came out that the man concerned was run over by a tank. A gruesome end for a courageous man. A simple arrest could have been made but they (CCP) chose to murder him and many others who called for change.

The Tiananmen tragedy will always be remembered outside of China, no matter how much the CCP try to cover it up domestically.

Sorry that any of your (@deanzaZZR) former students had to go through that event. They all deserved a brighter future than they ended up with.

Chinese history is full of very high, highs and very low, lows. I was told that 4 students from the university I taught at were killed in the suppression of the democratic movement. The students I knew at that time were very innocent, very proud of their heritage and optimistic about the future.

On this anniversary, once again, we pray for the victims. 祈祷

turned 19 2 days before the massacre. Some days it feels like I am the only one who remembers which is of course what the CCP wants us to think.

Im glad I’m not the only one who remembers how the PLA under Li Peng - the butcher of Beijing- murdered thousands of their own citizens for demanding their rights.

I’ll neither forget nor respect the CCP as a legitimate governing authority.

In the early-mid 90s as I was finishing up my undergraduate degree after a 3 year hiatus spent in Fukuoka, I had a modern Chinese history class taught buy a professor who had been on the ground with the State Department in Beijing at the time.

As a fluent Chinese speaker, he got to go out and get the feel of the man on the street in the build up to what became the massacre.

He said it was the laborers who fought the hardest and who took the worst casualties.

He also said that as bad as it looked, it was much worse, both in Beijing and in several provincial cities.

“I thought the entire country might explode and part of me wished that it would.” I never forgot that statement.

Another miserable country where the army has had more effect terrorising its own people than fighting foreign enemies. And not because, as the seriously brainwashed say, China has never attacked anyone else. Remember 4th June.

This and the Cultural Revolution

 I knew at that time were very innocent, very proud of their heritage and optimistic about the future

Great summary of the feel I had from the young Chinese I was around in Beijing over the winter months '88/'89 while I was there. I was in Japan when the CCP decided to kill their own people, so sad.

The CCP are not the sort of people you want to run your country. Despicable people.

I think it’s not so much the CCP but the Chinese government; the Chinese government is not the sort of people you’d want to run your country. The current government just happens to be the CCP.

If there’s a new government, I can’t see it letting Taiwan free or doing anything different in the West Philippines Sea. The Chinese government that lost to the CCP and fled to Taiwan had its own June 4th crackdown; it’s know as the February 28th incident where people resisting the KMT were killed. Most likely it is just the Chinese way of governing, the authoritarian government.

quercetumToday  08:14 pm JST

The CCP are not the sort of people you want to run your country. Despicable people.

I think it’s not so much the CCP but the Chinese government

The CCP IS the Chinese government. They are one and the same. Any minor parties exist at the permission of the CCP and exist only for window dressing.

The PLA doesn’t pledge allegiance to the country, the Constitution, or the government. It explicitly pledges its allegiance to the CCP.

It’s pretty thick to think that the party and the government are not one and the same

@ EFD

Oh, I didn’t know that the CCP was the government of China. I see now.

Hong Kong, 2023 is a sick and depressing police state. No protests or any dissent is tolerated. Children growing up there - I pity them all - will not be permitted to read about the slaughter of all those poor people standing up to Communist murderers 35 years ago in Tiananmen square.

Rest in Peace to the freedom-loving Chinese heroes of '89. You will never be forgotten.

They do this every year, to be expected that it's a thorn in someone's side.

At least it keeps the CIA busy.

Chinese ideology is guided by a collective approach, which means that the they will sometimes forego individuals' rights for the sake of the betterment of the whole (i.e. society). To those of you in the West, your people are quick to call it “human rights violations” whenever the freedoms of individuals are being limited, because your ideology puts the individual first, as opposed to the collective. There are pros and cons to each approach, and no clear-cut right answers as limiting individual freedoms now might give future generations more opportunities, whereas expanding individual freedoms now might have the opposite effect. But regardless, I can assure you that it is hard for Americans to accept the collective approach and hard for China the individual approach

China has no problems with being a country that cracks down on its own. They value the whole as opposed to the individual, which is similar to Japan, but Japan has been influenced by the West post WWII. It would take more than economic trade or MFN obviously to influence China the same way the U.S. has influenced Japan as China has not gone the direction desired. The constitution of Japan for one, is not one created or written by the Japanese. This is different in China’s case where the CCP governs the way they wish to govern. Not sure what it would take but clearly they have their own values and laws that reflect those values. China would surely fail if it tried to convert the U.S. into an authoritarian state and most likely the same with the US vice versa. So far the U.S. has not been successful.  They have different values and goals. 

US and China both have laws and regulations. In the US, the focus seems to be on the individual and individual freedom.

In China, the focus is on society and on individual responsibility. Americans worship their freedom. Chinese value their social structure and hierarchy. This will not change. It is the same in Japan. Thus “Free Speech" doesn't exist in China. Public speech is controlled and regulated.

Criticism in China is not really a problem. The Chinese criticize their government as much if not more than Americans. For centuries the poorest coolie has criticized the richest viceroy without any fear of repercussions. The Chinese don't really associate free speech with criticism at all.

The difference between the West and East, and I would included Japan as well, is that the West places free speech above all else.

China places public welfare above everything else. Take for instance a major crisis. The US would rather report this Crisis and cause the public to panic and cause mayhem everywhere. The spy balloon is a good recent example. Gaslighting, propagandizing, promoting party public relations and incessantly pointing out that the other party is incompetent is what American love to do.

China would suppress the report about the same Crisis and solve it or mitigate the same before revealing the same to the public to avoid blame and mayhem. For China, it's all about public welfare.

The government is seen as the patriarch and the people their responsibilities. Let’s say you lost your job or using a personal example, your company is about to be audited by the tax bureau, do you tell your kids of the impending financial hardship and cause them to worry or cry? Do you tell your family and cause them stress or do you work to take care of the problem first and then if absolutely necessary then tell them?

So if some Chinese says something that could cause public mayhem or cause problems where the public in their panic makes things worse for the government, they will be arrested, detained, prosecuted, and sent to jail.

Take the Covid crisis for example. Millions of Chinese blamed and criticized their government for lockdowns and other things. They weren't jailed or interfered with.

However some people spread false information and rumors which caused panic and made things worse for the people. They were detained and imprisoned.

Thats the key for everyone. As long as free speech isn't a threat to welfare and stability, it's fine in China. It’s is not the criticism but the chaos the criticism may lead to. The JT moderators are good examples of the way China works. It’s not that you don’t have free speech but that your speech and expressed opinions are moderated because they (you) lower the quality of this website and obstruct good discussion from taking place not to mention causing hate. It’s the same with Tiananmen or Hong Kong.

In long, it is a fact of human nature that we refuse to accept ideas that are contrary to our own, and necessarily see them as a threat. The anti-China sentiment in the US will grow until it reaches a breaking point, whereupon the government will look for any excuse to interpret Chinese action as a overextension of its power, and respond with military action in order to earn favor or votes.

RodneyJune 4 11:03 pm JST

At least it keeps the CIA busy.

I know. You believe the CIA is personally controlling every protestor in one of the repressive regimes on earth. Must tire the boys at Langley out.

*most repressive

quercetumToday 12:06 am JST

Chinese ideology is guided by a collective approach

The Chinese used to say "heaven is high, and the emperor is far away". Unfortunately modern technology has brought the emperor a lot closer. Eventually mainlanders will have to learn to live without the dictatorship like Taiwan did.

It is a virtuous act to damage a fascist dictatorship, online or offline, and there are a million and one ways to do it without getting caught.

Demonstrating and getting nicked just makes the work of the CCP easier. It's idiocy. Be smarter. Do lots of damage. Don't get caught.

The only violence related to Tienanmen Square (original or remembrances) has been from the CCP-military. It is a little funny how far the CCP goes to prevent the free exchange of ideas by people inside and outside China. Maybe funny isn't the word. Sad is. China being the bully or victim and sometimes trying to be both.

Replacing history just leaves ill-informed citizens who can't make smart choices the next time something similar happens.

People in Hong Kong looked down on mainlanders for decades because mainlanders were dirt poor. Imagine losing the perceived elite status of being a British colony and being returned to mainland China. It’d be the equivalent of growing up with one parent on the upper east side of New York City and having to go to Ohio or Iowa because of a custody battle. They dreaded 1997 and still harbor resentment to this day. So the grieving of the students killed in 1989 is used as a political stick to poke China . Few would believe Hong Kongers care so much if at all.

The Hong Kong government and civic groups have finally put an end to the silly “June 4th Vigil” tradition. Lives were lost but people don’t believe Hong Kong cries for them. No longer will a bunch of Hong Kongers be allowed to virtue signal, pretending to care about the fates of mainland Chinese students from 3 decades ago. They treat mainlanders like human garbage. It would be like if the KKK were to hold a vigil for George Floyd. It would be a mockery of the man, not a show of respect.

They treat mainlanders like human garbage.

It is similar to how Americans view poor illegal immigrants from across the border in the south. They come to the US and work as maids or mow lawns and are not treated with respect. It doesn’t have to be from the south. Italians and the Irish also faced this and there were many epithets and slurs used. Mainlanders were the maids much like how the Japanese currently view laborers from Vietnam or as some Westerners called slaves when criticizing Japan. Humans have this superiority complex and treat those from poor countries with disdain. Few see the sincerity of a vigil held for the slain students in Hong Kong. It’s just for show.

quercetumToday 05:31 am JST

An alternative is that hong kong has been forced to go live with the abusive parent. I know you won't accept it, but people do legitimately want to be free, including the Chinese. Taiwan proves this.

Humans have this superiority complex and treat those from poor countries with disdain.

If it is a disdain for democracy, as the PRC has, than disdain in return is deserved for that reason alone.

quercetum

Few see the sincerity of a vigil held for the slain students in Hong Kong. It’s just for show.

It's not for show. I was in Hong Kong in 1997 during the handover and there was a lot of concern about losing freedom. The Tiananmen Square crackdown represents the CCP's brutal oppression.

I guess those fears were warranted.

I was in Hong Kong in 1997 during the handover and there was a lot of concern about losing freedom. 

They do care about “their” freedom but holding a candlelight vigil for Tiananmen students is a silly show. They have the most vulgar terms for mainlanders. Cantonese is the most colorful language for cussing. Any Hong Kongers here? They hate that they’re a part of a China.

Shen Zhen is where the money is and economic wealth can change attitudes for those who worship money. Hong Kong is overcrowded with people living in less than 4.5 tatami quarters. The bottom line is they hate that they’ve been returned to their hillbilly country bumpkin mainland Chinese cousins. Yes, they care about their freedom as anyone would.