Hong Kong transsexual wins court fight to marry her boyfriend

So, if one has a Daihatsu microvan, does some bodywork and a paintjob, then puts VW ensignia on the front, it can be sold as a VW bus? Nah, it still is a Daihatsu, just with cosmetic changes.

Utterly irrelevant.

DNA might control the growth of sexual organs, but gender is essentially determined by hormones when the baby is still in the womb. In a tiny minority of cases, those hormones create a female brain in a male body, or vice-versa.

Some people might feel uncomfortable when faced with transexuality, but the science is irrefutable. Deal with it.

"I just googled now to be sure that things might have changed but no, it is still chromosomes."

I think if you google a little deeper, you'll find that it's a lot more complication. Chromosomes are the starting point. Then there's in utero exposure to hormones. And people outside of the XY XX (and XYY XXX XXY) combinations possible, there can be babies that present with genitalia that is different than their chromozones, and those that are something in between. And we're still just talking physical.

I just wonder if the people who say XY chromosomes are everything there is to sex and gender do not believe that there tend to be differences in the way men and women think that make up unique gendered identities or if they simply think it's all about what's between our legs? And if the body is just cosmetic and you are straight do you ask your partners to submit DNA tests that prove that they are indeed the opposite sex?

And if there is a mental component to gender don't you think it is possible to have masculine women and feminine men and people who are mentally different than what is expected of their sex? If you became the opposite sex tomorrow by some magic would you feel trapped in your new body or would you just accept it because you are your XY chromosomes and that's all there is?

But most of all why do we need to judge what is and what isn't man or women when we live in such a diverse world? Last I checked black and white tvs don't sell very well anymore. Most of us like to see in color. If you think you are more than just a penis or a vulva then respect that transpeople are too.

tmarieMay. 13, 2013 - 10:14PM JST “This is a victory for all women in Hong Kong.” Um, how so? If she said for transsexuals, lesbians, gays... I would agree but all women?? Why?

Because she's a woman.

Arguing that she's a man just because some piece of paper issued at her birth said so... well, mistakes do happen. A re-examination now using the same techniques employed when she was born (i.e. check for dangly bits) would reach the opposite conclusion, that she is a woman.

And that's the real test isn't it? If you accept the validity of the test criteria used at her birth to determine her gender and issue the birth certificate, then you must apply those same criteria now, and accept her as a woman. No other criteria are relevant, and all further discussion is relevant.

If, however, you want to apply other criteria then those other criteria must be applied to all babies, or else you'll be issueing a whole lot of birth certificates with a big "?" on them.

with all the combinations you want , the result will still be that there are only 2 genders : male and female. now surely there are some anomalities.but the norm is XX and XY : male and female.

and yes, there are also hermaphrodites too

Allow folks to marry whom they want regardless of gender, sexual orientation...

“This is a victory for all women in Hong Kong.” Um, how so? If she said for transsexuals, lesbians, gays... I would agree but all women?? Why?

A major hurdle for the LGBT community in HK is the conservative Christians, just like those in South Korea. It's fortunate that they haven't managed to gain a foothold in places like Taiwan, China and Japan.

W’s lawyers had previously argued that many countries have allowed transsexual people to marry the opposite sex in their new gender, including mainland China since 2004, as well as Japan and Australia.

Never thought I'd say this but even China and Japan seem more with the times than HK.

and yes, there are also hermaphrodites too

Indeed. I'd like to see how some of the posters define these people.

Good on the transsexual for trying to find happiness. Glad she wasn't driven to suicide, as in a recent case in the UK thanks to scum newspapers like the Daily Mail.

Because she's a woman.

And??? She's one of a handful who has undergone such operations so def not "all" women are benefitting from this.

" and yes, there are also hermaphrodites too Indeed. I'd like to see how some of the posters define these people."

Genetic mutation. But this person wasn't a natural mutation.

The person is a transgendered male, not a woman.

i'd also like to add that i have no issue with people who are transgender. people are free to do whatever makes them happy. i just don't think you can really be a man or a woman after the surgery.

@taj,

with all the combinations you want , the result will still be that there are only 2 genders : male and female. now surely there are some anomalities.but the norm is XX and XY : male and female.

And we're still just talking physical.

I don't believe that a man normally structured with all the anatomy of a man can be categorized as a woman just because he thinks he is a woman.

That's awesome, good for her!

Government subsidised sex change.... If the surgery is mandatory, I don't mind but if not, I think its not propoer use of tax payer money. Fortunately Japan don't have this.

I just had a thought....in mainland China where the have aborted or internationally adopted out so many girls and when the shortage is recognized the can have state sponsored gender realignment to compensate!

" the science is irrefutable. Deal with it."

Indeed. X, Y chromosomes say it all. Exterior is...cosmetic.

" I think if you google a little deeper, you'll find that it's a lot more complication."

Yes, complicated, but by genetic anomaly, known as defect mutation, unless you postulate those as positives in human genetic evolution.

@lubracasi,

but gender is essentially determined by hormones when the baby is still in the womb.

I learnt at school in biology (science) that the gender was determined by the chromosomes (x or y). I just googled now to be sure that things might have changed but no, it is still chromosomes.

but the science is irrefutable

yes, it is irrefutable.Mister W was conceived male, born male and artificially injected women hormones and did surgery.

Thus JeanValJean argument :

Ms W may look, walk, and talk the talk, but the person is a male according to DNA.

is valid scientifically.

Mister W may be then an artificial woman.

Sources : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050323124659.htm

why didn't W just marry the boyfriend as a man and not as a woman? i'm all for gay marriage, but once you decide to have sex reasignment, then you really aren't either sex. you may mentally believe you are but physically, you will need hormone shots to remain like that, and you don't have any "working parts." to me that is neither man nor woman.

"her re-assignment / sex change surgery had been government subsidised"

Can the taxpayers ask her to reimburse them? I hope she's happy.

So, if one has a Daihatsu microvan, does some bodywork and a paintjob, then puts VW ensignia on the front, it can be sold as a VW bus? Nah, it still is a Daihatsu, just with cosmetic changes.

Ms W may look, walk, and talk the talk, but the person is a male according to DNA.