Republican lawmaker shot, others wounded in Virginia

Just another day.

The new breed of American home-grown "terrorists".

No one should be surprised by such an act. The combination of unlimited access to firearms and the bitter political rhetoric which peaked during the 2016 presidential campaign and has continued largely unabated were almost certain to bring such a result. The more important question is whether or not this will be a wake up call sufficiently loud and jarring to bring partisans on both sides to their senses and tone down their rhetoric. Sadly, there is little reason to be optimistic.

Just another day.

Not this time, this has morphed into something more dangerous

Just another day.

Wow! A violent anti-Trump, Sanders supporter opens fire on a group of GOP lawmakers having a baseball practice session and that's "just another day" in your mind?

Interesting.

The more important question is whether or not this will be a wake up call sufficiently loud and jarring to bring partisans on both sides to their senses and tone down their rhetoric. Sadly, there is little reason to be optimistic.

In this day and age of seemingly everyone standing up and "demanding" their right to say what ever the hell they want, and the ability to "hide" behind their computer screens, and the idea that they are "entitled" to do just about whatever the frick they want....you are right on the mark about having little reason to be optimistic.

I listen to a show on the drive home, it comes in on the Armed Forces Network here in Okinawa, it's called the Stephanie Miller show, I can last about 5 minutes before I have to change the channel.

Listening to that show, it's no wonder that folks like this gunman are ticked off bad enough to go and shoot someone. She flames emotions to unbelievable levels, and takes no responsibility for it either.

Rush Limbaugh isn't much different, but the thing is people listen to their crap and rhetoric and BELIEVE it to be 100% true. It's freeking scary.

After the gunfire stopped, Sen. Flake, of Arizona, said he ran onto the field and also tried to come to Scalise's aide.

Certainly hope he and all the victims make a full recovery. But laying on the field for 5 or 10 minutes possibly with internal bleeding is a good reason why he is in critical condition now with a hip injury.

The shooter was identified as James T. Hodgkinson . . . and belonged to a Facebook group called "Terminate the Republican Party."

The Democrat/Media climate of hate bears poisoned fruit.

Maybe now the lefts "comedians" and "actors" will stop with the "humor" about decapitated and murdered presidents.

Maybe now somebody on the left, somebody with a shred of credibility, will stand up and denounce campus violence, hate-speech, F-bombs by Gillibrand and Perez, idiots like Griffin, and all general vitriol masquerading as free speech.

 I hope this event has a silver lining and reduces the MSM and Hollywood hatred for Trump, at least a while. We need a break from the hatred

Oh, the next episode of The Gun Show is out. Seems this episode is watched by more Republicans than usual.

Watch as this drives Trump supporters to start packing heat.

I think they were doing that already.

I hope this event has a silver lining and reduces the MSM and Hollywood hatred for Trump, at least a while.

Very unlikely. Why would it? What did he do to reduce any hatred for him?

The ever so 'tolerant' left strikes again!!

Its disgusting that people have to lose lives before the realization that democracy was and is not meant to make everyone pleased. You win some, lose some. The whining lefties need to grow up,work towards the next circus cycle.

@bass Not this time, this has morphed into something more dangerous

I agree with @bass.

Sickmenwithguns-itis: right at the top of the list of America's most serious problems.

Touch wood the injured will recover soon.

@rBush the days of polite and reasoned discourse are over in America.

Both sides of the US divide need to take responsibility. As do paid keyboard warriors from abroad, especially those who've claimed many times their plans to further inflame issues by posting messages intended to further divide Americans are working beautifully.

@kabuki We need a break from the hatred

Cuts both ways. Changing avatars might be a start? Each of us should review our respective past posts on this site.

Why do I think that if any of these guys had been murdered, we might have seen some actual action on gun control?

The guy hated Republicans, yes, but it could have easily happened the other way. He also had a long history of domestic violence that included the use of a gun, beating foster children or driving them to suicide, and everyone he interacted with thought he was crazy.

A violent anti-Trump, Sanders supporter opens fire on a group of GOP lawmakers having a baseball practice session and that's "just another day" in your mind? Interesting.

Some people got shot in America. Yes, it's just another day. Unless you think someone taking out their neighbor is somehow more acceptable or less frightening.

Read my post about the guy who attacked Muslims in Portland. I said then that his political leanings mean nothing if he's unhinged, and I'm going to say the same thing here. I know the headlines will read, "Bernie supporter shoots people" but perhaps a better headline would be, "people who support easy access to guns shot by gun."

 if he's unhinged,

The crazy angle hasn't been spun yet.

people who support easy access to guns shot by gun

Ahh yes. Right on cue. The callous attitude towards​ violence against the opposition. Classy!!

Its disgusting that people have to lose lives before the realization that democracy was and is not meant to make everyone pleased.

It's disgusting that people are losing lives, and some people still completely ignore the fact that allowing the citizens to arm themselves willy-nilly means that some unbalanced nuts will go off and shoot people.

The guy hated Republicans, yes, but it could have easily happened the other way. He also had a long history of domestic violence that included the use of a gun, beating foster children or driving them to suicide, and everyone he interacted with thought he was crazy.

Thank you Lizz. It's nice to see a balanced post from you. What this guy did was despicable. Whether or not you agree with the politics of the other side, the fact is that politicians are doing a public service, and we need to all accept that not only will there be politicians who we disagree with, such politicians are actually a requirement for a healthy democracy. Shooting them is 100% the wrong thing to do.

Callous attitude? That's reserved for people who see this every day and support doing precisely nothing to change it. The fact is if you work towards a having a society that is awash in guns then things like this, and school shootings, will be part of everyday life. My apologies if my sympathies are exhausted at this point but go ahead and fill in my absence with some nice words if you'd like.

Then we'll do it all again next week.

allowing the citizens to arm themselves willy-nilly means that some unbalanced nuts will go off and shoot people

I used to be believe guns were the main problem but now I think it's just dogma. How do you explain Switzerland, Finland and the Czech Republic? None of these countries suffer from an epidemic of gun violence despite having very lax gun laws. I think banning guns would certainly help, but it would do nothing to cure the deeper culture of violence bubbling under the surface.

What about superhero or cowboy movies that idolise a lone hero taking the law into his own hands when nobody else was willing to act? Isn't this the quintessential part of American culture that leads to these sorts of unstable people feeling justified to carry out these sorts of attacks? The guy who picks up a weapon and 'does something' has always been the attractive hero in the American psyche. This goes back to the pilgrims. Contrast that with a country like France where the hero is usually a wise cynical philosopher smoking a cigarette and telling us nothing can be done so we must learn to accept life as it is.

None of these countries suffer from an epidemic of gun violence despite having very lax gun laws

The big difference is that guns in those countries are largely military or hunting rifles, very carefully stored at home or in vacation cottages. They don't have handguns being carried around to near the degree that you find in the US.

Then we'll do it all again next week.

That's optimistic. Someone went postal in San Francisco today, killing 3 then himself.

Opening shots in what I assume will be many years of political violence. With such hostile and violent political rhetoric from the rubes, no one should be surprised by this

Sadly, I am afraid the culture of violence promoted so joyfully by the left will cause many more deaths in coming years in America.

Sadly, I am afraid the culture of violence promoted so joyfully by the left will cause many more deaths in coming years in America

Its cowardly to use this tragic incident to push some sort of narrative that only one side is violent. Further, its absolutely not true. Shame on you.

@Lizz

The big difference is that guns in those countries are largely military or hunting rifles, very carefully stored at home or in vacation cottages. They don't have handguns being carried around to near the degree that you find in the US.

That's true in Finland, and to a lesser extent in Switzerland, but it's certainly not at all the case in the Czech Republic which is awash is concealed handguns. Yet, they don't have anything close to the same levels of workplace or random gun violence. It raises a question that deserves an answer.

I agree that a complete ban on guns would solve many problems, but there are deeper causes at play. To deny this is very unproductive and a bit delusional. I think many Americans on the right refuse to admit there is any problem with the availability of guns, but both the right and the left seem to be reluctant to admit that there is a problem with American society itself. Guns (including handguns) have been available in America for well over two centuries, yet the astronomical levels of gun violence is a relatively recent phenomenon which seems to have perfectly parallelled the rise of American mass entertainment. Countries which have guns but a very different culture do not suffer the same problems. If you want real and long-lasting solutions for your country, I think you're going to have to come to grips with this reality rather than try to explain it away by saying that no other country can ever be compared to America.

The Democrat/Media climate of hate bears poisoned fruit. Maybe now the lefts "comedians" and "actors" will stop with the "humor" about decapitated and murdered presidents.

I try to be fair and balanced on these topics, but screw it. The climate of hate was started by the right. How conveniently you forget the implied threats on Obama's life made by Ted Nugent, the crosshairs on Democratic politician's faces on Sarah Palin's political ads and the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords that followed, or the President himself's "joking" appeal to the "second amendment people" toward Hillary during his campaign. And let's not forget the decades of hate and division cultivated by Fox News.

Comedians, actors, and F-bombs... What about easy access to guns? Access so easy nut-jobs like this one can do what they do. It's the left that wants sensible gun control and it's the left that supports social services that would help the mentally unstable. We get accused by the right for making tragedies political by talking about those things (so we can prevent future tragedies, god forbid), but here you are making things very political by blaming the entire left. Those deplorables Hillary was talking about? It's not everyone on the right, but it's people like you.

Yes, it's just another day. *

Ok, so a violent anti-Trump, Sanders supporter who was also a member of Facebook groups like “The Road to Hell Is Paved With Republicans”, “Terminate The Republican Party”, and “Donald Trump is not my President”, goes to the park and asks if the people on the field were Republicans or Democrats upon learning that they were Republicans he then begins to systematically shoot at the players with eyewitnesses stating that he appeared to targeting elected officials.

So an apparent, politically motivated assassination attempt on at least twenty republican members of Congress and their staffs is still just another day in your mind?

Interesting.

So an apparent, politically motivated assassination attempt on at least twenty republican members of Congress and their staffs is still just another day in your mind?

There are shootings every day in America, each unique in the circumstances behind them. These are just different circumstances than the other shootings. The fact that another shooting happened is just another day.

Sadly, I am afraid the culture of violence promoted so joyfully by the left 

Are you pouring fuel on the American fire, comradeteer, trying to further the divides? But then getting paid to do so is probably one of the easiest jobs on the planet. No wonder keyboard brigade members get paid so little.

Out of curiosity, which media outlets do you read to think it's only the left that's violent?

Let the right use this to their advantage. I really couldn't care less. They can score whatever political points they want. It won't stop me from focusing on the senselessness of it all, and how it's just accepted that this is how we're going to live in this country.

Let the right use this to their advantage. I really couldn't care less. They can score whatever political points they want. It won't stop me from focusing on the senselessness of it all, and how it's just accepted that this is how we're going to live in this country.

I think it's the same with the left, I will focus on stomping out any liberal that would rather take my rights away as a law-abiding citizen. Were it not for the Whip being armed, you would have had a bloodbath. Great on them for being armed.

Were it not for the Whip being armed

Had the terrorist not been armed, there would have been no shooting whatsoever.

Had the terrorist not been armed

So this idiot shouldn't carried a firearm shot at those people, but where is he now?

So this idiot shouldn't carried a firearm shot at those people, but where is he now?

In a position where he shot a bunch of people who were just trying to have some fun.

In a position where he shot a bunch of people who were just trying to have some fun.

Yeah, but where is the guy now?

In 2011 when a paranoid schizophrenic with fringe far-right conspiracy theories attempted to murder US Representative Gabby Giffords (AZ-D), many right-wingers were outraged, outraged I tell you, that anyone on the left would dare suggest their political rhetoric might have influenced the shooter to murder 6 people and wound 13 others. This despite shooting imagery being an undeniable part of Republican rhetoric at the time, including prominent Republican politicians putting opponents' pictures in cross-hairs or telling their supporters to "reload".

Fast forward to today, and we have conservative voices on this forum trying to pin responsibility for the latest attempted murder of a Congressperson on the left - despite there being no evidence of any kind of violent rhetoric coming from the left. The closest thing to evidence anyone here can come up with is a D-list comedienne whose violent joke imagery was roundly criticized by people of all political varieties, including by liberals on this very board, and who has paid for her terrible judgement with her career.

So I have to wonder- if we rolled into the archives and looked at news posts on JT about the Giffords attack, just how many posters currently trying to blame the whole left for a disgusting murder were then adamantly insisting that their political party can't be held responsible for a lone nut murderer.

that would rather take my rights away as a law-abiding citizen

You do understand you are in Japan. You have no gun rights here. Why stay in a country if you feel unprotected with no gun?

Ok, so a violent anti-Trump...

Yes, an a violent Republicans shot Giffords, Kennedy, and bombed the Oklahoma government building. It's a gun problem, not a political problem. To be fair, yes, a Liberal shot Lincoln, but crazy is crazy.

That's true in Finland, and to a lesser extent in Switzerland

The Swiss have strict inventories on guns. The NRA doesn't want that so it does not exist in the US. That is why there are so many loose guns everywhere in the US.

Guns (including handguns) have been available in America for well over two centuries,

Semi auto Glocks? Because you can't mass murder with a musket unless you want to do it to a bunch of turtles.

Maybe now the lefts "comedians" and "actors" will stop with the "humor" about decapitated and murdered presidents.

Who does this? I'd like to know because they would be arrested now.

The Democrat/Media climate of hate bears poisoned fruit.

Well, Trump hates Mexicans, Hillary, Obama, and Muslims. Also he hates Germany, Japan,and the list goes on.

It's a gun problem. These guns are too deadly to be legal or at least they should be inventoried strictly.

And of course the corrolarry to that line of inquiriy: Just how sick in the head does a person have to be to not have a shred of evidence that the political party they disagree with uses violent rhetoric, but to enjoy the murder of an innocent person because it allows them to try and score points on "the other side" anyway?

Yeah, but where is the guy now?

Here:

In a position where he shot a bunch of people who were just trying to have some fun.

Were it not for the Whip being armed, you would have had a bloodbath. Great on them for being armed.

In this case, because of gun laws that are lax in the United States, a crazed person had a multiple round weapon and could have killed many. It was necessary for the body guards of the congressman to be armed in a country where bullets fly often, and they did prevent more people from likely being shot.

This does not mean that having guns are the solution to others having guns. Hiding behind the idea that the law allows for guns in the United States has led to senseless shootings, over and again. Because you are likely one who believes guns don't kill people, people kill people, you will never understand why being armed to kill is not a positive thing. Of course, it is an American thing to kill with bullets, and because of the outdated laws and the propaganda from the money making gun makers and supporters, you have the legal right to bear arms, within the borders of the USA, but it's wrong to believe violence is the answer to violence.

At least, that's what we tell our kids, or at least, I did. I guess you're more of an eye for an eye person, but I've always held that taking an eye does little except cause the other eye to be taken out, sometime soon after, and all it leaves is two blind parties. Retaliation is more an act and behavior of hatred, and I think it's a poor behavioral ideal. I stand up for myself and my children do too, we just do it with communication and intelligence without being violent.

Oh dear, oh dear -- Americans armed to the teeth are angry at Trump, the Trump Administration, and Republicans.

The United States is divided beyond repair. Regardless of political leanings this is a sad day and indicative of the times and probably what is to come in the U.S.

Sad for me to say as an American

I used to be believe guns were the main problem but now I think it's just dogma.

What about superhero or cowboy movies that idolise a lone hero taking the law into his own hands when nobody else was willing to act? Isn't this the quintessential part of American culture

The same could be said of Australia, which is a closer analog to the U.S. They subscribed to the whole, you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Turns out, guns was the problem.

 Were it not for the Whip being armed, you would have had a bloodbath. Great on them for being armed.

Good on them they had armed guards, which is common after the Giffords shooting. There are too many people with guns out there being made to feel powerless.

The Swiss have strict inventories on guns. The NRA doesn't want that so it does not exist in the US. That is why there are so many loose guns everywhere in the US.

The Swiss also is not comparable to the U.S. because there are not the huge socio-economic stratification you see in the U.S., it is a smaller country where you generally know your neighbors, and the Swiss must serve in the military.

I grew up in the U.S. surrounded by guns, believing the government taking away guns was the first step to communism, served in the military, and even own a few hunting rifles, but I still feel that taking guns off the streets should be seriously considered. There are a just too many guns out there in the hands of people who shouldn't have a gun.

Honestly, I don't know that ordinary people really "need" a gun. I have to struggle to think of a scenario where the population having guns would be good.

Nobody deserves to be shot, whatever your "side" is.

This is the danger of allowing all this fake news nonsense to continue unchecked. Interesting that TV going out of their way to make this guy seem like just a regular person who was just upset by the results of the election.

Where are Hillary and Bernie to say to their supporters to respect the election results and not be upset by them. Hillary was too busy comparing herself to the main character in the Wonder Woman to have any helpful comments.

 to make this guy seem like just a regular person

Did CNN say this? Did FOX News report that CNN reported that this person was just a regular person? Which news station is reporting that Hillary voters think the shooter is a hero?

Interesting that TV going out of their way to make this guy seem like just a regular person who was just upset by the results of the election.

What news are you watching? Everything I've read and heard said this man has a violent history. NOTHING I've read or heard said he was a 'regular' guy. His criminal past has been brought up again and again.

Where are Hillary and Bernie

I have zero idea where you are, but Bernie has blasted this guy and this incident.

Obviously the intent of your post was to enflame.

New York times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/virginia-shooting-suspect-james-hodgkinson.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

“Totally out of the blue,” he added, saying that his brother was engaged in politics but otherwise led a normal life.

He did not come off as a radical,” Ms. Brennan said. “He did not come off as an unstable individual. He wasn’t belligerent. He was just kind of a normal guy.”

“He wasn’t evil,” he said. “I guess he was tired of the politics.”

They also mentioned that his daughter killed herself in 2006, why is that relevant except to gain sympathy? Not an evil guy, just an every day normal guy who could reasonably be upset that Trump won.

I have zero idea where you are, but Bernie has blasted this guy and this incident.

yes, he denounced the violence, as he has to do. Where is his or Hillary's statement to prevent further attacks? To tell people to stop this #resist nonsense and accept the results of the election? This guy was upset that Trump won and specifically shot Republicans, when are they going to tell their supporters to move on?

@Blacklabel

This is the danger of allowing all this fake news nonsense to continue unchecked.

A new scapegoat to avoid putting the blame on the guns themselves...

Where exactly do you get your information from? Hillary and Bernie HAVE urged their supporters to respect the election results and to never resort to violence. They haven't encouraged them to not be upset though, because being upset is what motivates people to get involved. You can be upset and effect change without being violent, hateful, or disrespectful.

Politicians like Hillary and Bernie condemn violence all the time, both before and after violent attacks . They do it so often you probably don't notice anymore. Meanwhile, Republican politicians condemn violence only immediately after attacks. The rest of the time they're promoting gun ownership, making jokes about shooting the opposition, or body slamming, mounting, and beating journalists for asking questions. Again, it's the right that promotes violence from the top down. Again, I'm making it a left/right issue because you guys did.

I hate to say it, but now it just seems like "another day, another shooting in the US". There were also several other mass shootings on the same day that did not get much coverage.

M3 has a point. American culture has always been awash in violence. Ask blacks in the South or Native Americans if violence is only a recent phenomenon. When I was in college, 900 people were killed in Washington, DC in a single year. The difference over the last twenty years, say since Columbine, is that such violence is no longer restricted to poor communities, to ghettoes. It’s not simply about gangs or drugs. Now, it can randomly affect people who thought they were safe b/c they lived in affluent zip codes. That’s why despite overall homicide rates being lower than 20 years ago, nowhere seems safe.

Based on my voting pattern, you’d think I’m a prototypical lefty on the gun issue. Like my dad, it’s been straight democrat for decades. But when I was stateside, just like my Dad, I had a handgun. For home defense, for road trips, camping etc. Of course, it's easy to argue for a complete ban on handguns and assault weapons ... in Japan, but getting to such a utopian point in America sounds extremely unlikely. When you take your kids to a restaurant and there’s a guy at the salad bar with a holstered canon, when that’s normalized, what can you do? And even if it is something that can be achieved over time, what do you expect a father to do in the meantime to protect his family, especially if he’s living in a high crime area? It’s easy to condemn Americans from ridiculously safe cities like Yokohama or Fukuoka. But I know women, one of them a rape survivor, who live alone and have handguns. Should they just hope someone rescues them in the event of a home invasion?

I also have a friend who is both a Quaker and an anarchist and I always tell him his Gandhian commitment to nonviolence is going to be a challenge when there’s no government to protect his family from armed cannibals.

Of course CNN had to report fake news from Jim Acosta that Trump did not meet the lawmaker who was shot and did not go into his room. But he actually did, just another attempt to make the President look bad. Once this news was proven fake and it has been retweeted enough, he simply deleted the tweet with no retraction or explanation.

I dont look at this as a gun issue. I look at the cause of the action, not the instrument used. This was directly caused by a lack of the Dems side respecting the results of the election and attempting to make the president look illegitimate and treasonous.

The guy was obviously upset by watching CNBC all the time (Rachel Maddow fan, per his FB) and took action. My point is the headlines for this shooting are factual, just talking about the fact that there was a shooting done by someone. But in the Portland shooting the headlines were Muslim hating white supremacist Trump supporter shoots people. Then immediately, we get a leak that Trump is under investigation! to drop the shooting off the top spot on the page within 12 hours. That is the difference in the media bias.

New York times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/virginia-shooting-suspect-james-hodgkinson.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

“Totally out of the blue,” he added, saying that his brother was engaged in politics but otherwise led a normal life.

He did not come off as a radical,” Ms. Brennan said. “He did not come off as an unstable individual. He wasn’t belligerent. He was just kind of a normal guy.”

“He wasn’t evil,” he said. “I guess he was tired of the politics.”

Ahh you're right. They should have censored the comments of those people for not stating that he was a nut. Damn MSM.

But when I was stateside, just like my Dad, I had a handgun.

I'm very anti-gun, but if I lived in the states, there is a good chance I'd buy one myself. Ideologically, I think the idea of arming the citizenry is ridiculous. Realistically, if everyone else is armed, you can't blame someone for wanting to protect themselves.

That's why the gun issue needs to be dealt with at a legal level, as the people will never disarm themselves.

@viking68

The same could be said of Australia, which is a closer analog to the U.S. They subscribed to the whole, you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Turns out, guns was the problem.

Banning all guns is an essential step to stopping all gun violence, no doubt about that. However, there are some countries that do have significant levels of gun ownership without significant levels of gun violence. I think it's fair to ask why the same levels of violence don't materialise in these countries.

Australia is probably comprable to the US in terms of culture but it was never one of these societies that managed to pull off high gun ownership with low levels of gun violence. This is why the 1996 ban was necessary. Is it a model for the US? Well, it's certainly better than doing nothing. I just think there is a deeper societal cause.

I think this shooter wanted to be viewed as a hero to millions on facbook who shared his political outlook. He thought he would stand up and do what nobody else had the courage to do. He was going to take the law into his own hands and save us from the tyranny of the people he thought were out to harm everyone. He probably saw himself as the good guy in this story. Where did these ideas come from? Are they not the same ideas which are celebrated in much of American pop culture? like the countless superhero movies that have been release in recent years?

 They should have censored the comments of those people for not stating that he was a nut. Damn MSM.

Oh so do you think the story will be that he is just a nutcase? That was not accepted for the Portland shooter. Media decided it was because he was a white supremacist Muslim hating Trump supporter (which was untrue, also a Bernie bro like this new shooter).

Where did these ideas come from? 

From the media and Dem members of Congress being allowed to portray Trump and all his team members as traitorous criminals who are in collusion with a foreign government to destroy America. Of course if this were actually true and this guy did something to stop it, then he would be a hero. But unfortunately none of that is true and this guy simply watched too much Rachel Maddow conspiracy theory on CNBC.

Oh so do you think the story will be that he is just a nutcase?

Hey, I agreed with you on the censorship.

Media decided it was because he was a white supremacist Muslim hating Trump supporter

Did they? I don't remember seeing any articles saying that, I only remember some posters here suspecting it.

Its cowardly to use this tragic incident to push some sort of narrative that only one side is violent. Further, its absolutely not true. Shame

First the crocodile tears. Then the misquote, because the original quote was something that can't be so easily countered. And a nice topping of "shame, shame" a la the fascist cult in Game of Thrones.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

The outcome is inevitable, sadly.

@Blacklabel

I have some sympathy with your argument. I really dislike Trump but the level of rhetoric and conspiracy has spun a bit out of control. It seems like people can no longer have a rational political disagreement on any topic without accusing the other side of being an existential threat to the nation. It didn't used to be this way.

Perhaps weakening the power of the presidency to make it more of a ceremonial post is one way America could become less divided. People could focus more on debating the merits of policy in the Congress rather than the personality in the White house.

Perhaps weakening the power of the presidency to make it more of a ceremonial post is one way America could become less divided.

Considering how little Trump has been able to do, it sort of seems it's already at that point.

Another option would be a counsel, rather than a single person.

Perhaps weakening the power of the presidency to make it more of a ceremonial post is one way America could become less divided. People could focus more on debating the merits of policy in the Congress rather than the personality in the White house.

Now THAT is a very constructive and intelligent concept. It does seem that everyone gets caught up in being against any and all policies of the President they dont like. Obama did it, its fine. Trump does same exact thing, its not. And the opposite as well.

According to most of you, Trump doesnt have the power to actually do anything anyway. The liberal courts are eroding all of the Executive branch powers by blocking them in the Judicial branch, which seems to be against separation of powers. People often arent against the policy, just the person proposing it. Democrats have NEVER been against infrastructure projects or national security until now.

So why not just weaken the powers of the President enough where no President cant force things down our throat like Obama did and also cant do things unilaterally like Repubs are doing. Are we really going to have healthcare that not even ONE Democrat voted for?

Maybe look at executive orders again and see if they are still purposeful? Also look at the electoral college to while we are at it. There is just no way 96% of Dems are against all of Trump policies, yet he only has 4% approval rating from Dems. Its just hatred of him personally and anger that Hillary didnt win for some of them.

Considering how little Trump has been able to do, it sort of seems it's already at that point.

The difference is that Trump legally does have the right to do some of the things the courts arent allowing. Liberal courts blocking things that previous presidents have all had the right and power to decide as President is what is upsetting people. Trump was elected President and the people who elected him did that based on wanting his policies to be implemented.

If we actually decrease the powers so that legal right isnt there anymore, people wouldnt be upset. Congress would have to work together and things would get done. I like this idea in theory.

It is like a schoolyard fight. A certain logic exists: If they push, you push back; if you do not, you will never win. One group started this fight, though. Hint: Gingrich. Throughout both the Clinton and Obama presidencies, the pressure was nonstop and immense. One manufactured "scandal" led to another - and this culminated with Trump's multi-year effort to prove that Obama was not born in America.

Two points: Does the GOP have any plan to tackle the problem of gun violence other than solemn but very momentary acknowledgment of the losses followed by ... zero? Nope.

Second: The boy that cries wolf syndrome. Here is how we got here: Nixon resigned before he could be impeached; Reagan was not impeached despite his crimes because, by the time they became clear, his term was almost over anyway; Clinton was impeached for peccadilloes that ate up much of his second term; Obama, being Hawaiian, laughed it all off, but that doesn't mean they didn't keep trying to find ... something.

But sometimes there actually IS something. And that's the problem. It is the GOP that has set a vendetta against any Dem president, and it is as relentless as it is unreasonable. So when there IS actually a problem, how are people to know? And there is a - actually, many - problems here. This is the GOP's legacy of opposition: why they are completely incapable of functioning as a governing party.

I think that reading these comments here gives any sane person an understanding of what is wrong with politics in the U.S. There are right-wing nutcases, let's not forget the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, and there are left-wing nutcases, as we've seen in this story. Politics these days is not about running the country, but obstructing the other side, and it spills into the media (both the extreme left and right media are a disgrace, and the moderate left and right media aren't a lot better), into online comments where people will defend the indefensible if its done by "their side", while blasting the slightest issue from the other. It all creates an atmosphere of hostility and inability to actually get anything done. It creates frustration on all sides. And, unfortunately, there are a number of people who are not mentally well who have access to firearms and we get things like this. Violence is not the solution to anything.

I can only hope that something like this will be a wake-up slap in the face to those who endlessly push a political ideology (left or right) that is devoid of reality. I hope, but I really doubt anything will change. Too many people use their political views as a badge for self identity, and see any weakening of that as a betrayal of who there are. Still, the recent British election saw some 40% people vote for a different political party that the previous election, so there is still hope that people can judge good policy over political allegiances.

To those wounded in this incidence, my hope for a quick recovery and thoughts for your family and friends.

Yet every time Trump tries to do something, the opposition runs lawsuits to the specific courts they control or else they open an investigation into it.

Yea, like the emoluments clause lawsuits, a travel ban based on pretext (how can I legally ban Muslims Mr. Gulianni?), Mueller now pursuing obstruction charges (Trump did this to himself), or the investigation of collusion (Trump and most of his team doesn't even acknowledge Russian interference, deny contacts with Russians until outed, benefited from the interference, the dossier that has largely proven correct, historical connections with Russian mobsters).

These are all serious issues that have some rationale for being pursued. They are not witch hunts. They raise serious constitutional questions and questions about abuse of power.

This isn't some birther conspiracy, or a seven year whitewater investigation to find anything even if it is just a stained dress.

The right side doth protest too much.

P.S., the congressional investigations were initiated by the GoP led congress; the FBI is independent; Mueller is independent. But somehow poor Trump is under assault by the lefties.

P.S., the congressional investigations were initiated by the GoP led congress;

They had to allow those investigations, they didnt initiate them and they think they are a waste of time. Not allowing investigations into leaked information by Obama administration holdovers would have looked like they were hiding something. Repubs keep trying to take the moral ground and allow everything to be investigated, recuse at the first sign of conflict of interest, etc. The Dems just simply refuse to allow anyone on their side to be investigated for anything and its working somehow. Repubs: Susan Rice please testify, Susan: uh no thanks Repubs: ok fine then, thank you!

the FBI is independent

SUPPOSED to be independent, yes. If they were that would not have allowed their terminology to be changed to match the terminology of an active Presidential campaign. Just in order to help them out with a problem with their candidate's image, thats not independent. Neither are all the one sided leaks.

Mueller is independent.

If he can put his friendship with Comey aside, then maybe. But the people he is hiring for his team are Democratic party donors or supporters so it might not matter.

Violence is never a solution in US politics.

This was a cowardly act.

Many of the posts here by "the left" are just shocking to me.

Like the Muslim ban?

No. The people coming from countries that have no actual government ban. Or people from countries that are unable to vet them before they come to our country ban. Muslims as a whole are free to come and go as they always have been. Calling it a Muslim ban is very intellectually dishonest and misleading. Regardless if Trump asked anyone how to do an entire Muslim ban, this order is not that.

Many of the posts here by "the left" are just shocking to me.

Dont you get it, its totally and completely the fault of GUNS.

Taking and posting a beheaded, bloody pic of the President is fine. Having a play where the President is assassinated in gory detail is fine and even applauded and sponsored. Antifa violence at free speech rallies to include physical assaults with weapons and destruction of property is fine too. The VP candidate saying fight the Trump administration in the streets is fine. Throwing urine on people, hitting them in the head with bike locks, whatever it takes because you are the #resistance and the other side is pure evil.

But now that it is a shooting of Republicans, suddenly violence is not ok. Well, its guns, all just guns, obviously guns! All violence would stop without evil guns. We the left have no idea how people would ever get this idea that any violence at all is ok. Where does it come from, lament CNN and CNBC.......

Taking and posting a beheaded, bloody pic of the President is fine.

No it's not. Where did you ever get that idea?

Having a play where the President is assassinated in gory detail is fine and even applauded and sponsored.

No it's not. Where did you ever get that idea?

Antifa violence at free speech rallies to include physical assaults with weapons and destruction of property is fine too.

No it's not, where did you ever get that idea?

But now that it is a shooting of Republicans, suddenly violence is not ok.

Violence is never ok.

Well, its guns, all just guns, obviously guns! All violence would stop without evil guns.

Nope. But there would be a lot less of it.

The people coming from countries

No, Trump promised this in his campaign. It's a Muslim ban. His words.

Imagine if a Republican supporter had shot a bunch of Dem affiliated people. Political assassination attempt!, the newspaper headlines would scream. Trump involvement being investigated! it would say. When it can be connected to Trump if he cant be personally blamed it is always caused by the climate that Trump created.

No it's not, where did you ever get that idea?

By the climate that has been created by Democrats. See how that works both ways? Their supporters are being led to believe that it is ok to view all Repubs as racist, white supremacist, sexist, homophobes suject to ridicule, scorn and active physical attacks under the name of resistance.

No, Trump promised this in his campaign. It's a Muslim ban. His words.

His words as a candidate about what he wanted to do under another order. Which once again, is not THIS executive order as written. Simply put, if this order goes into effect will all Muslims in the world be banned by it? Nope, then its not a Muslim ban. Its a people from certain places ban, to include the Christians and other religions from that place. Syria Christians are not exempt, correct?

The unhinged hate campaign of the political "left" is showing predictable results. Are they ashamed yet? What I see is gloating and victim blaming. Truly sad.

Many of the posts here by "the left" are just shocking to me.

Couldn't agree more!!

Another tragic example of angry America. The civil war is gearing up and this will not be the onky incident. Gun control is desperately needed, whether you're right or left - can you not see that there has to be some movement on this?

I listen to a show on the drive home, it comes in on the Armed Forces Network here in Okinawa, it's called the Stephanie Miller show, I can last about 5 minutes before I have to change the channel.

Listening to that show, it's no wonder that folks like this gunman are ticked off bad enough to go and shoot someone.

That channel just leaves me astounded, I think it has some links to Fox? Half the time the DJs are speaking to children, it appears. Prefer InterFM or 6Music.

As for the shooter; there's no excusing his actions, he seemd like a pressure cooker ready to go off. Reminds me of the brutal slaying of British MP Jo Cox by a right wing nationalist almost a year ago. Both situations awful.

Maybe now the lefts "comedians" and "actors" will stop with the "humor" about decapitated and murdered presidents.

You mean one comedian, right? Humour is exactly what's needed in this climate. Bad taste or not. What a pity you guys don't have a Chris Morris in the States...

"The hate campaign of the left"

Laughable. The party of no and hate is the GoP. Limbough was the original GoP screamer and conspiracy artist.

Nearly all homebrew (non-Islamic) terrorists have conservative leanings.

So Dems can just keep shooting Republicans until they they get the gun control they so desperately want? Like the people that push gun control even when a gun isnt used and it was a knife and car attack?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/29/tim-kaine-blames-gun-violence-ohio-state-car-and-k/

Thats how change is going to happen now in our world? Nothing about voting or will of the people as a whole, just create fear and manufacture events until people give in?

yes, he denounced the violence, as he has to do. Where is his or Hillary's statement to prevent further attacks? To tell people to stop this #resist nonsense and accept the results of the election? This guy was upset that Trump won and specifically shot Republicans, when are they going to tell their supporters to move on?

Somebody should have asked the same about anti-Obama types, as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama

Nobody seems to be able to move on, although it would suit some if the Trump intrigues were forgotten. This incident should not obscure the rotteness at the core of the administration.

Whatever the eventual outcome; America will be the disUnited States for a long, long time to come. Sadly.

The unhinged hate campaign of the political "left" is showing predictable results. Are they ashamed yet? What I see is gloating and victim blaming. Truly sad.

Because only the left are capable of such stuff, aye?

You just don't get it, do you? Trump and the lickspittles he attracts (within the GOP or without) are a result of a planned campaign of hatred. The fact that some extremists flip out is hardly surprising. It's not to be lauded or condoned but it is inevitable.

The UN needs to send in observers for future elections. This cannot continue.

Cuts both ways. Changing avatars might be a start? Each of us should review our respective past posts on this site.

Oddly, the violence reminds me a bit of the conflict in NI/6 counties. There was a lot of flag waving there, too. And both sides deeply entrenched and intransigent. Some of the funding for the Republican paramilitaries came from the US, while the British intelligence services were colluding with Loyalist paramilitaries. I hope the US never descends into that darkness.

Here:

In a bodybag, that's correct. He wanted to go out in a blaze of thunder and boy did he ever!

That's why the gun issue needs to be dealt with at a legal level, as the people will never disarm themselves.

They shouldn't, in fact, I am quite certain gun sales will go through the roof again.

If people don't want to have or own a gun, that's their right, but as long as we have the 2nd amendment, I will gladly hold on and purchase more guns and that's why I support the NRA.

Honestly, I don't know that ordinary people really "need" a gun. I have to struggle to think of a scenario where the population having guns would be good.

I could think of a few, hunting is one of them, not to mention, because I can.

Gun control is desperately needed, whether you're right or left - can you not see that there has to be some movement on this?

We already have strict laws on the books, California, Illinois and NY have some of the toughest gun laws out there.

Laughable. The party of no and hate is the GoP. Limbough was the original GoP screamer and conspiracy artist.

If we make a list of the last 5 months of what liberals have done and compare that to what conservatives have done you would have to look very hard and deep to see the hate, destruction and vileness that the left have reaped on the country since Trump has been in the WH and that's not counting before he became president.

Maybe now the lefts "comedians" and "actors" will stop with the "humor" about decapitated and murdered presidents.

Who does this? I'd like to know because they would be arrested now.

New York’s Public Theater production of “ Julius Caesar, ” in which Central Park audiences watch Caesar as a blond-haired Donald Trump, who is pulled down from a podium by men in suits and assassinated with plunging knives.

Also:

http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/30/kathy-griffin-beheads-donald-trump-photo-tyler-shields/

The trivialization of the murder of a sitting president, --- because it's "fun" --- is not merely a reflection of "free speech"; it is a reflection of a sickness of character. When such abominable failures of human character are allowed to be trivialized, they are soon perceived as unexceptional. And once something becomes unexceptional, it is soon deemed acceptable.

Is this surprising with a president who incited his followers to violence? A president endorsed by the KKK?

Wait... wait... have I got the narrative wrong?

Like the people that push gun control even when a gun isnt used and it was a knife and car attack?

Exactly. It would have been so much more effective to target a group of people spread out on a baseball field with a knife or a car. Why didn't he think of that?!

New York’s Public Theater production of “ Julius Caesar, ” in which Central Park audiences watch Caesar as a blond-haired Donald Trump, who is pulled down from a podium by men in suits and assassinated with plunging knives.

Shakespeare has been adapted countless times in a later or modern context. You're clutching at straws if you seek to ban art. How would you feel if someone tried to ban your username or avatar? I mean, it's just an expression, right? It doesn't add up to anything sinister, yes?

The left wing democratic hate speech that has been allowed to fester by the MSM is responsible for this

Trump and the lickspittles he attracts (within the GOP or without) are a result of a planned campaign of hatred.

What about the last two attackers that Bernie Sanders attracted? We can play the blame game of hatred all day. Trump asked for unity NOW based on this horrible event. Dems basically decline, do the basic violence is bad lip service they have to, then demand gun control instead. Then Washington Post takes the focus right back to the obstruction/but Russia! narrative 12 hours later. We are screwed as a country if this continues.

For people who asked, I am in Japan. I am for guns when I am not in Japan, simply because criminals still have guns. if there were a way to make sure someone trying to harm me didnt have a gun, I would give up mine. In Japan, no one messes with me because I am physically huge. But a gun doesnt care how big you are and a 12 yr old can kill you.

Is this surprising with a president who incited his followers to violence? A president endorsed by the KKK?

Almost every Republican president was endorsed by the KKK and that includes McCain, so does that mean, you follow their beliefs and as for the violence, so how many violence and rioting perpetrated by conservatives over the last 5 months? How many conservatives destroyed campuses, fired people from their jobs because of supporting Trump, holding a libs decapitated head? How many held rallies saying they will blow up the WH, called liberals deplorable. I could be here all day and rant about crazy and violent things the left spew on what seems to be a minute to minute run.

Wait... wait... have I got the narrative wrong?

Sadly, yeah.

Trump asked for unity NOW based on this horrible event.

I.E. All bow down to his highness? Unity will only be achieved when Trump and his cabal stop shafting the ordinary folk and promoting hatreds.

Dems basically decline, do the basic violence is bad lip service they have to, then demand gun control instead.

So, what's the alternative? More guns? Everyone gets tooled up? Why won't the Repubs even consider gun control? It's almost like a religion....

Then Washington Post takes the focus right back to the obstruction/but Russia! narrative 12 hours later. We are screwed as a country if this continues.

I see what you did there. Very clever. Lay off Trump's dodgy intrigues and everything will be fine and dandy. Outstanding.

Cant decide whats more disgusting. The mental gymnastics some posters are doing to explain away the latest violence of a left wing Bernie supporter, or the giddiness of the attack

Exactly. It would have been so much more effective to target a group of people spread out on a baseball field with a knife or a car. Why didn't he think of that?!

Totally missed my point. Dems only care about gun violence in cases that it is useful to lead to a call for gun control. It is pretty ballsy to use any instance where a Dem shot Repubs for political purposes to still call for gun control.

My point was that Dems hoped that the knife and car attack was actually a gun so they could use it for political reasons. Same as Repubs hoped the attacker was Muslim to use it for their own political reasons. We as a society have gone nuts now hoping that everything bad that happens and everyone what is killed fits our political narrative and not our opponent's.

People actually seemed disappointed when the person doing anti-Jew graffiti and bomb threats turned out to be a Jew. They wanted to blame Trump so bad. Same as when Portland guy stabbed people protecting Muslims. Same as when the black guy admitted doing the racist graffiti. Any time there is a terrorist attack Repubs seem to hope it was a Muslim, preferably an immigrant from a country on the travel ban list. Any murder, hope it was an illegal immigrant from a sanctuary city who did it. Its both sides that are disgusting.

I am really concerned about the mental state of our government, politicians and most of our society that everything has to be colored by identity politics. Golden State won the NBA champs, immediately reported some if not all wont go to the White House. Why? cause there is a racist there. What? Why cant sports just be sports? Most players hadnt even finished showering after the game, they had not even been officially invited yet, but its already being turned in to an attack on Trump.

Dems only care about gun violence in cases that it is useful to lead to a call for gun control. It is pretty ballsy to use any instance where a Dem shot Repubs for political purposes to still call for gun control. My point was that Dems hoped that the knife and car attack was actually a gun so they could use it for political reasons.

Why are Repubs unable to consider gun control?

I know the US has plenty of moderates but the gun extremists... almost like a Taliban lite... they simply won't budge on their ideology. Why?

If we make a list of the last 5 months of what liberals have done and compare that to what conservatives have done you would have to look very hard and deep to see the hate, destruction and vileness that the left have reaped on the country since Trump has been in the WH and that's not counting before he became president.

Please, make this list and show us. Cite your sources, too.

You do know the Kathy Griffin thing was not real, right? Nobody was harmed, apart from herself.

As the liberals always say, its the CLIMATE that is created by allowing such a thing. And yes, it was allowed because she is not in jail or being prosecuted for anything.

You know what stopped this specific attack? The arrival of other guns. If that were you and me there, we would all be dead now. Luckily one of the guys was in Congress so he gets an armed security detail that we dont.

TV is already pushing the story that the attacker is simply mentally deranged, and has nothing to do with his political leanings. Just blaming the gun laws that allowed him to buy a gun in the first place.

Why are Repubs unable to consider gun control?

I know the US has plenty of moderates but the gun extremists... almost like a Taliban lite... they simply won't budge on their ideology. Why?

Because the government has failed on getting criminals off the streets and getting guns out of the hands of criminals. My personal safety cant be left to the police or government, by time they show up myself and everyone around me is dead already. Do you realize that if armed people hadnt showed up, ALL those people there would have been dead?

A conservative type here laughed at yours truly and presented a lovely scenario where I and my pals were stabbed to death. All because of opposition to Joffrey and standing up to Islamophobia.

Ok, that's two.

Nope still on one. The conservative type simply laid out the reality of what happened in London a few days back when Islamic terrorists knifed to death several people. There was no laughter.

"Lets all give Kathy Griffen a pass. harmless fun!"

Nope again. Liberals won't be happy until the unthinkable happens to Trump.

But a word of warning from left wing philosopher Noam Chomsky; “When we move to the arena of violence, the most brutal guys win – and that’s not us,”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4189124/More-12-000-tweets-call-Trump-s-assassination.html#ixzz4k0h0zXDl

12,000 tweets about assassinating Trump. I'm assuming that means with a gun in this day and age.

As I said, the climate that liberals have created that somehow makes this seem ok enough that thousands of people would feel emboldened to post this garbage on their Twitter. Breaking news: It's not ok to do this.

You know what stopped this specific attack? The arrival of other guns. If that were you and me there, we would all be dead now. Luckily one of the guys was in Congress so he gets an armed security detail that we dont.

Sigh. Why won't the Repubs even consider gun control? Can anyone answer this? Please...

And now predictably, the narrative is being hijacked by those who want more failed gun control laws and away from who did this and why.

Fitting that the same narrative hijacking happened today on the 1 year anniversary of the Pulse nightclub slaughter by Omar Mateen. The MSM won't even mention what his motivation was even though everyone knows.

Yeah wasn't the Pulse night club shooter's phone call edited by Loretta Lynch to remove any mention of his pledge to ISIS? Interesting to look back to see that James Comey is the one who is again confused, this time about the motive of the killer (CNN article quote)

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-year-ago-loretta-lynch-tried-editing-isis-out-of-the-orlando-pulse-attack/article/2625677

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/19/politics/orlando-shooting-transcripts/index.html

So yes, I guess we will just never know why he did it......but that wont stop us from enacting gun control based on it.

 As I said, the climate that liberals have created that somehow makes this seem ok enough that thousands of people would feel emboldened to post this garbage on their Twitter. 

Hmmm. Contrast the above statement with this:

“I don't want to blame people on the left for what this person did today,” said Republican Rep. Pete King of New York to Fox News. “He was acting on his own. I’ve been around long enough to know we have these types on both sides.”

Hmmm. Contrast the above statement with this:

“I don't want to blame people on the left for what this person did today,” said Republican Rep. Pete King of New York to Fox News. “He was acting on his own. I’ve been around long enough to know we have these types on both sides.”

Yes, that is called taking the high road because he knows he will get attacked if he says anything but that. Which the next time the shoe is on the other foot should (but probably wont) be taken. Dont you remember last time with the Portland shooter how desperate everyone on the left was to link the killer to Trump? He was not allowed to have acted on his own or just been a random crazy guy.

He HAD to be linked to Trump as a white supremacist in some way because Muslims were involved. Even when evidence proved he was actually a Bernie Sanders supporter. So then it was still Trump's fault because of the climate he has created to allow something like that to happen.

Not Portland shooter, Portland knifer.

Please, make this list and show us. Cite your sources, too.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/06/02/trump-san-jose-rally-protesters/32639803/

http://observer.com/2016/09/mainstream-media-defeat-trump-by-attacking-his-supporters/

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Repubs would have said it's humour, albeit in bad taste.

That's not the point, if a conservative would have done the same thing, he/she would never, ever get a job in the entertainment industry EVER, they would be shunned and run out of town.

Yes, that is called taking the high road because he knows he will get attacked if he says anything but that.

Or it is called having a mature, balanced perspective on issues like this without resorting to over-generalizing and playing the blame game.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/05/chicago-torture-not-isolated-incident-trump-supporters-have-been-violently-attacked-all-over-the-country/

Horrible but just think of the PotUS and his stance on barbaric torture

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/waterboarding-absolutely-works-donald-trump-discusses-torture/

In a country where the elected leaders are in favour of advocating violence against prisoners and violence against protesters at rallies, is this any surprise? Really?

Or it is called having a mature, balanced perspective on issues like this without resorting to over-generalizing and playing the blame game.

I agree, but acting in that manner is why the Republicans are losing at everything. They try to be noble and moral but when the other side has the upper hand in a situation, they throw blame and generalizations from every direction. That is why their President is forced into being under investigation, why they cant pass any legislation and why all the policies they were elected to put in place are being blocked. Its why only Repubs are held accountable for any misdeeds, why only they recuse themselves, why they are made to publicly testify when others simply hide in private or refuse, on and on.

but your perspective is accurate, yes.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/06/02/trump-san-jose-rally-protesters/32639803/

http://observer.com/2016/09/mainstream-media-defeat-trump-by-attacking-his-supporters/

Nice try, Bass, but your original post said, "*If we make a list of the last 5 months of what liberals have done and compare that to what conservatives have done you would have to look very hard and deep to see the hate, destruction and vileness that the left have reaped on the country since Trump has been in the WH and that's not counting before he became president."*

Your links are from 2016, and by your own standards for measurement, out of date.

Try again--a remember--the "last five months"--your words, not mine.

America will bow their heads over this for five minutes and then wait for tomorrow, when nothing will have changed. The GOP is in the NRA's pocket (witness Trump jumping from sensible gun control to toeing the NRA line in an instant). They have no policies and do not care - though I suspect their own tax-payer funded protection will be quite beefed up from now.

Perhaps naked hatreds and intimidation are acceptable if adequately phrased over a large number of posts.

Perhaps they are. Certainly posts highlighting such ugliness are routinely removed, whilst some of the hate preaching, falsehoods and intimidations appear to remain. Maybe to serve as clickbait?

It's the Trump effect. The vitriol, hateful and racist language of this disasterous creature have enabled internet cowards to threaten, advocate and wish violence on those who stand against the slide into the abyss.

They shall not win.

> http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/heres-a-list-of-completely-substantiated-and-underreported-attacks-on-trump-supporters/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/06/02/trump-san-jose-rally-protesters/32639803/

http://observer.com/2016/09/mainstream-media-defeat-trump-by-attacking-his-supporters/

Nice try, Bass, but your original post said, "If we make a list of the last 5 months of what liberals have done and compare that to what conservatives have done you would have to look very hard and deep to see the hate, destruction and vileness that the left have reaped on the country since Trump has been in the WH and that's not counting before he became president."

Your links are from 2016, and by your own standards for measurement, out of date.

That's not the point, the point is, where is all the violence that the so called right perpetrated on the left past or present.

So in 2016 and 2017 you can take your hands and probably toes and count conservatives attacking liberals on a daily basis.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/08/more-than-100-inauguration-day-protesters-indicted-on-rioting-ch/21710172/

That's not the point, the point is, where is all the violence that the so called right perpetrated on the left past or present.

Moving the goal posts again, are you? You made a statement and once again, failed to support it. You provided no list which showed violence by both parties (so that we could compare) during a specific time frame which you selected. Now that you cannot provide that list, you're hedging.

So in 2016 and 2017 you can take your hands and probably toes and count conservatives attacking liberals on a daily basis.

So, why not show us all of this proof for these years? Oh, and remember, in order to do a proper comparison so that we can make this important judgment call, you will need to provide data and evidence from both sides.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/08/more-than-100-inauguration-day-protesters-indicted-on-rioting-ch/21710172/

Ok--that's one piece of evidence for your argument about the left. Where is the rest?

I think both sides in the US need to tone it down significantly. When Obama was president the Right was most vociferous in it's words. Now that Trump is president the Left is being extreme. It just seems that with every new President the tone get's worse. There are words being used now that were never used in the past in political discussions.

The use of slogans like 'The Resistance' and the activism and demonstrations against the newly elected president is unprecedented. The activist Left on college campuses has in itself become dangerous to American democracy. Ritualized beheadings and assassinations of Republicans is becoming routine. To fight back politically the Left routinely dehumanize the opposition as racist and deplorable. On the Right, Sarah Palin "targeted" Democrats for defeat. There is no common ground between extremes. The only real solution in my opinion is to move the debate to the States and away from the overarching and stifling power of the Federal government. When the Feds decide things the fight becomes a death match fight to the finish.

I know the Left doesn't want to hear this but guns are not the problem. Yes, less guns would definitely mean less people killed by guns. And less cars would mean less people killed by cars. It is simplistic to assume that it is even possible to do as Australia did and ban most types of guns in America. It just isn't going to happen in the near to medium term in America.

Moving the goal posts again, are you?

I'm not doing anything, from kids not being allowed to wear a Trump shirt or to have a Trump logo removed from the class year book to punching out people to not allowing freedom of speech on our campuses, watching Hollywood have a complete meltdown, these are all relevant and happening on a daily bases, you don't even have to wait for an "if" but "when"

So, why not show us all of this proof for these years?

No, I'm not going to go there, you only accept facts or what you think are facts from liberal sources only, anything else, you refuse to accept, so No. You believe what you want and I will do, it's both our rights.

For decades, the left-dominated Hollywood film industry has flooded the US with gun carnage entertainment.

Yeah, party before country right guys? You're being part of the problem and NOT the solution.  Instead of dealing with the very real fact that you've devolved into your partisan shells so much that instead of the natural and civilized debate, you'd rather just blame partisanship and rely on partisan propaganda which led to tensions so high we now have violence based on one's political affiliation.  You've lost your souls as to what it means to be an American.  The first time I heard that Pro/Anti-Trump supporters started carrying brass knuckles, baseball bats, axes, knives, and now guns I could tell that nobody knows how to be civil and respectful anymore.  United we stand... divide we FALL.  Figure it out, but apparently you're too braindead on partisan propaganda to know when to stop running full head into stupidity and trying to spread it.  That's alright, when our country ceases to exist because of this kind of stupidity and arrogance, it might finally dawn on you.

Clearly LIberal exstremist terrorism.

Putin's laughing his butt off at us. Why?  Because he's learned that with the right amount of disinformation and manipulation, American society is more than willing to destroy itself from the inside out.   Keep playing the pawns in his kind of game.   We're the only ones that will lose.

8TToday01:15 am JST

Clearly LIberal exstremist terrorism.

LLol. Crank...

Horrible but just think of the PotUS and his stance on barbaric torture

And yet you said you would "love to visit North Korea." This is the problems with the virtue signalling of the left. It's all just a pose.

He is in critical condition and will receive third surgery.  both parties will perform the baseball game very soon.  President canceled meeting at labor dept.  No one is joking this in USA.

For decades, the left-dominated Hollywood film industry has flooded the US with gun carnage entertainment.

And made millions off of it as well.

There are some simple facts here that are getting lost:

(1) this was a vile incident;

(2) this is part of a pattern of behavior normalized during the campaign;

(3) more firearms means easier access for anyone; and,

(4) someone just let rip a stomach-churning fart on the train - uh . . . None of us are helping to resolve the issue of polarization by trying to prove the other incorrect.

I understand that a difficulty here is related to facts. Many people want to dispute facts, and that doesn't sit well with many. However, according to confirmation bias, by highlighting facts that disprove a proposition, you are causing most people to feel attacked and further harden their positions. It seems to me this is especially true for anonymous posters.

blacklabel: Dems only care about gun violence in cases that it is useful to lead to a call for gun control.

Which would be all of them.

Toasted HereticJune 1509:34 pm JST

Perhaps they are. Certainly posts highlighting such ugliness are routinely removed, whilst some of the hate preaching, falsehoods and intimidations appear to remain. Maybe to serve as clickbait?

The only competing explanation is design ineptitude. Knowing what I do of the people involved, neither would surprise me.

There are shootings every day in the Weimar Republic, each unique in the circumstances behind them. These are just different circumstances than the other shootings. The fact that another shooting happened is just another day. Macht nichts.

Wait... wait... have I got the narrative wrong?

bass4funk: Sadly, yeah.

Sadly, you don't appreciate irony.

For decades, the left-dominated Hollywood film industry has flooded the US with gun carnage entertainment.

Ah; it's liberal Hollywood's fault. Of course.

Louis B Mayer, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, John Malkovich, Kurt Russell, Kelsey Grammar, John Voight, Gary Sinise, Dwayne Johnson, Robert Downey Jnr, Stephn Baldwin, Jerry Bruckheimer, Adam Sandler, James Woods, Vince Vaughan, Bruce Willis.

All conservative Republicans. All were/are in the businss of making movies with guns and violence.

The body count in the movies of those hollywood liberals is horrendous. Count them.

And yet theyre the biggest voices whining on about peace and tolerance.

Toasted Heretic: Sigh. Why won't the Repubs even consider gun control? Can anyone answer this? Please...

It's a common attack path when a candidate expresses what might be considered limits on gun rights. Any GOP politician who says they are anything other than against gun control paints an immediate target on his back, and he'll hear about it from his colleagues, his base, the NRA, the right wing media, and his future political opponent. It's your basic political suicide.

And there are plenty of Democrats and Democratic politicians as well who support the right to own a gun. Not nearly to the same % of the GOP base, but enough to hamper us at times. Even the Democratic Party's platform, while calling for regulation and oversight, clearly does not call for an end to gun ownership.

So they both support the Second Amendment in their platforms. The biggest difference is probably the stat that says 79% of Republicans think guns make us more safe whereas only 16% of Democrats feel the same. That takes the solution in two completely different directions.

The hard part is finding the conversation that you want. Republicans will not engage in even the conversation about more gun control, so that cuts out the legs when you want to have a frank discussion about what we can do to make things better. They believe even the smallest of laws can snowball into more laws and finally a ban, so it's pretty much impossible to change anything when you remove change from the equation.

The body count in the movies of those hollywood liberals is horrendous. Count them.And yet theyre the biggest voices whining on about peace and tolerance.

The list I gave you contained Hollywood Republicans. Which makes your comments about left dominated Hollywood ill informed, at the very least.

And if some find violent movies horrendous, nobody is forcing them to watch. It's just entertainment. It's not real.

My goodness! Nobody should be hurt or nobody should hurt anyone just because of their political ideologies.

TH, weren't you the one only yesterday saying certain posters should be ignored. Years later, after 1000s of comments, do you think any of the guys on the right on this site (or any other) have changed their minds one iota after engaging with liberals? Even on those rare occasions when such debates are civil and in good faith, let alone disgusting fantasies about "giddiness." If as I think you'll conclude the answer is no then what's the point? Entertainment, something to pass the time?

Republicans will not engage in even the conversation about more gun control, so that cuts out the legs when you want to have a frank discussion about what we can do to make things better.

It all stems from the fact that the Americans rose up against the British using their private guns. They determined at that time that the right to own guns was something that needed to be ensconced in the constitution in order to prevent the government from ever being able to exert undue power over the people.

The problem is, that was 200 some years ago. Guns changed, the US changed, and the US created the most powerful army the world has ever seen. The idea that the people could rise up against the government nowadays with their private guns is about the most ridiculous thing imaginable.

But, that's where it's at. Guns are how the Americans became American, so there is nothing more American than guns.

Didn't Bannon spend some time in Hollywood?

"Wait... wait... have I got the narrative wrong?"

What do you mean by "got the narrative wrong"? What narrative are you talking about? Anyone?

Democratic terrorists

The idea that the people could rise up against the government nowadays with their private guns is about the most ridiculous thing imaginable.

Not really. The most advanced militaries have always struggled against guerrilla warfare hit and run tactics. Look at the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. It would be even more difficult at home, where the "collateral damage" would be US citizens.

What will the military do, drop a nuke on Idaho if they rise up? Are they going to go in and shoot up everyone in a Dallas suburb? Only in some fantasy comic book would that happen. In reality, poorly armed guerrilla fighters, sympathetic members of the armed services, and soldiers who are not motivated to kill fellow Americans would make the military quite ineffective.

But, that's where it's at. Guns are how the Americans became American, so there is nothing more American than guns.

Amen! And I love mine, that's for sure!

but the thing is people listen to their crap and rhetoric and BELIEVE it to be 100% true. It's freeking scary. yep happens everyday when Trump tweets

*so there is nothing more American than guns. ** fair comment, also fair to say that the mass killings and 30,000+ gun related deaths in the US every year can also fit under this title, actually pretty sad when you think about it. Im not American but have used guns on a regular basis in my younger years*

What will the military do, drop a nuke on Idaho if they rise up? well if it gets bad enough they probably just drop precision bombs from drones onto their homes, or send in a tank to take them out, personal firearms dont have much effect against drones and tanks and I dont think RPGs , anti tank weapons or surface to air missiles are easily obtained or owned by US civilians. So itd be like bringing a knife to a gun fight

then what's the point? Entertainment, something to pass the time?

Indeed, jcapan. I'm just hoping there are still some who are willing to engage, otherwise the conflict spreads like a cancer. But maybe I shouldn't bother. People who boast how they love guns... it's quite sickening in light of so many killings in that country.

If you want to see true honor, integrity, and humanity, just look at how most of the Democrats and a lot of Republicans are handling this: unity, support, and most important, a willingness to lend a helping hand. How are certain Republicans handling this instead, to show their true hearts? I think Gingerich's comments said it all. If not, just look at the partisan posters like bass, blacklabel, and clamenza, etc., above.

Giffords, for example, could have IMMEDIATELY taken this and used it, through her own experience, to talk about the dangers of guns, and how Trump has caused even more polarity in and about politics in the nation (rather than bringing it together), but no... she immediately expressed sympathy and hope for recovery. As did many others.

Guns are how the Americans became American, so there is nothing more American than guns.

Amen! And I love mine, that's for sure!

There is nothing more American than innocent people being shot by someone who should never have had a gun in the first place.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nancy-pelosi-gop-more-to-blame-than-democrats-for-harsh-political-discourse/article/2626077

Must have missed Nancy Pelosi (the main spokesman for the Dems) blaming Republicans and Fox News. She says all this worsening in behavior is justified because of how the Clintons were treated in the 1990s.

Oh and the New York Times blaming Sarah Palin. They had to retract that one, but the damage is done once it is published and they know that. So it seems the new plan is that the New York Times is going to handle fake news while the Washington Post now gets the leaks.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/15/media/new-york-times-editorial-palin-giffords-correction/index.html

How are certain Republicans handling this instead, to show their true hearts?

They have hearts?

Seriously, I'm sure there are many decent Republicans who will not capitalise on the incident but here? Not a chance.

[The gunman had a rifle and "a lot of ammo,"]

I wonder how he got his hands on those... Little children being killed didn't seem to phase certain people one bit, maybe this will.

[Lawmakers were stunned in the aftermath of the event]

Surely lawmakers are not that stupid. "Concerned" surely. "Upset"? Of course! But stunned!? Not really.

Had he only had a knife, the events would of been much different.

Still though, quite sad.

[Rush Limbaugh isn't much different, but the thing is people listen to their crap and rhetoric and BELIEVE it to be 100% true. It's freeking scary.]

It is scary. I listen to him and a few others just to see what nutters are thinking and it is like they are purposely trying to fan a real war with the opposite side. No matter what Obama did, it was never good enough. Now with Trump in office, no matter how horrible he is, he can do no wrong.

The fact that they act like they are an actual news source is even scarier. Out of the countless hours lisenting, only once did a more "laid back" host actually make a point and state saying that this was "talk radio" and not to be associated as "real news", only "opinions". But those who listen and hang on every word take it as if being written on stone tablets.

I wish Mr Scalise the best of luck so he can recover enough to give a speech at the next NRA rally explaining how the attacker being able to buy a gun is in no way linked to his being shot.

My personal safety cant be left to the police or government, by time they show up myself and everyone around me is dead already.

Which country? The USA or Japan?

And yes, it was allowed because she is not in jail or being prosecuted for anything.

For what crime? Did he have an outstanding arrest warrant?

Why are Repubs unable to consider gun control?

> I know the US has plenty of moderates but the gun extremists... almost like a Taliban lite... they simply won't budge on their ideology. Why?

The amendments were enacted to prevent something the people of those times had learned, the hard way. We don't want history to repeat itself. Failure to learn from history ....

The right to free speech is my right and I want to use it. In American, you have the same right.

The right to own and use firearms is also my right and I want to use it. It is part of my family's culture. We go hunting as a family. We like to spend time outdoors. We enjoy target shooting. These are very happy memories of family time, away from others.

It is culturally insensitive when people call for limiting our rights as guaranteed under the US Constitution.

It is the law where I live that every head of household must have a firearm AND ammunition. There are other places in the world with similar laws, BTW.

There is a method to change the Constitution.

More people are killed in vehicle accidents than by firearms in the USA. If you really want to save lives, take all vehicles off the roads.

It is culturally insensitive when people call for limiting our rights as guaranteed under the US Constitution.

How about Military grade machine guns? Should ordinary people have a right to own those? (the latest and greatest made today- not vintage ones. It says "shall not be infringed" in the constitution. And should teenagers be allowed to conceal carry handguns like adults? I mean under the age of 18.

More people are killed in vehicle accidents than by firearms in the USA. 

Yes, Japan too.

blacklabel: They had to retract that one, but the damage is done once it is published and they know that.

Kind of like the Seth Rich story? You seemed fine promoting a story even after it was retracted.

Two sets of rules....one for us and one for yourself?

As the liberals always say, its the CLIMATE that is created by allowing such a thing. 

Wow, all this blame on "Liberals" So what? Go ahead and having a party over it it's the Liberals' fault. But really, who cares who does it? A Senator is still shot and he could become an amputee (at least) since assault rifles' bullets tear up the body much more than regular hand guns'. When the NRA proud senator (He has an A+ rating with NRA) hops back to work on one leg let's see if he still supports buying military grade rifles being as easily as a pair of socks at Walmart. YES, go NRA! Getting shot sucks but this senator got a taste of his own medicine. And it doesn't matter who shoots whom, the more this happens the more we come closer to strict gun regulation- which I am happy about. And it's so funny all these NRA types responding to JT boards and they choose to live in the big gun free zone knows as JAPAN. Coming to Japan? Please leave your guns behind! But then go ahead and complain about gun restrictions.

More people are killed in vehicle accidents than by firearms in the USA. If you really want to save lives, take all vehicles off the roads.

Not true according to this article from the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.09d543933694

The article also mentions that "Gun deaths now outnumber car deaths in 21 states plus DC."

When self driving cars are the norm then this will no longer be an argument. Next the NRA will say more people die from just being alive than from guns alone. Does that make sense?

The right to free speech is my right and I want to use it.

Yes, this exists in Japan too.

There are other places in the world with similar laws, BTW.

I wonder if anyone made a wrong turn at the airport (this is Japan with no guns)

There are other places in the world with similar laws, BTW.

I cannot find any source to back this statement up. What are they?

Giffords, for example, could have IMMEDIATELY taken this and used it, through her own experience, to talk about the dangers of guns,

But she wouldn't do that because not only is she a very intelligent woman, but she also knows and respects the 2nd amendment and knows that there are many Democrats in Congress that are also NRA supporters.

and how Trump has caused even more polarity in and about politics in the nation (rather than bringing it together), 

I know you just didn't say that. That's almost as funny as saying Liz Warren just became the president of the US.

but no... she immediately expressed sympathy and hope for recovery. As did many others.

What happened to her has nothing to do with the loon that shot Scalise, you can't even compare the two.

More people are killed in vehicle accidents than by firearms in the USA. If you really want to save lives, take all vehicles off the roads.

Very true

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/drug-overdose-deaths-heroin-opioid-prescription-painkillers-more-than-guns/

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/06/guns-dont-actually-kill-many-americans-cars/

But when comparing the ways Americans die, the latest batch of statistics from the Centers for Disease Control reveal the truth is as much about how the data is parsed as it is a potential indicator of our tolerance of bloodshed from car crashes and gun violence.

Call it a quibble, but the headlines aren't quite accurate. Motor vehicle deaths still exceed firearm deaths, according to the CDC's annual **Mortality In The United States report.** Not by much. But considering experts have long projected a moment when trends of lower car deaths and higher gun deaths intersect for the first time in US history, it's important to note they haven't actually crossed yet.

Funny how the liberals (a word I use hesitantly as the regressive left in the West is anything but liberal) try to frame this as a gun issue. Imagine some sort of redneck who adores Rush Limbaugh had a facebook page full of vile rants against democrats and Obama and then proceeded to shoot up democrat baseball game. All we would hear about would be his ideology and all the hate that is spread in the media.

But in case of the Trump hater and MSNBC fan..... it is just a gun issue, nothing to see here, move on.

The double standards never fail to amaze me.

"I have the right to bear arms!"

But you don't have the right to be an idiot. Here is your ball and musket, now go play.

But you gun advocates have to cry for military grade assault weapons, god only knows what attachments and crates of ammo. "Background check? Oh my god why!? Your taking my freedoms away!"

try to frame this as a gun issue

If it is not then how come you can't buy modern military grade machine guns?

Let’s examine some previous Republican statements:

GOP House candidate Robert Lowry held a campaign event at a Florida gun range in October 2009, where he fired gunshots at a silhouette that had his opponent Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz’s printed on it.

“You know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.” - Sharon Angle

“If I could issue hunting permits, I would officially declare today opening day for liberals. The season would extend through November 2 and have no limits on how many taken as we desperately need to ‘thin’ the herd.”

-Brad Goerhing

“Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office,” read an advertisement for the event called “Shoot a fully automatic M16 With Jesse Kelly.”

“Don’t retreat, instead- RELOAD!” - Sarah Palin after circulating a map with crosshairs over lawmakers who supported the ACA

“You know but other than me going over there with a gun and holding it to their head and maybe killing a couple of them, I don’t think they’re going to listen unless they get beat.” - John Sullivan

“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

Donald Trump

It is culturally insensitive when people call for limiting our rights as guaranteed under the US Constitution.

That's like saying it's culturally insensitive to criticize female circumcision, or forcing women to wear the full-body things, or throwing gay people off buildings.

Something that is wrong is just wrong, and deserves criticism. It's not culturally insensitive, it's an attempt to make our world a better place.

More people are killed in vehicle accidents than by firearms in the USA. If you really want to save lives, take all vehicles off the roads. statistic show that there are 8000+ gun homicides every year and about double this in suicides every year for the last 40yrs, thats approximately 23,000+ deaths by guns every year. Vehicle deaths are about 30,000+ every yr for last 10yrs, this is set to drop dramatically with the introduction of self driving vehicles . auto braking tech. Yet gun deaths will only decrease by limiting the easy access to guns, most US guns deaths are by hand guns not assault rifles.

America can be so stupid at times. We have to be all the way on one side or the other instead of coming to common ground in the middle.

I believe a home owner should be able to protect his family with "basic" firearms, maybe even carry a pistol for defense out side of the home. But when you are not in a defensive role, but actually want what basically amounts to military grade hardware, you have crossed the line.

When a person can be arrested for carrying a knife longer than six inches or the palm of their hand or illegal to even posses certain knives because of how they open, but you can carry a weapon that can shoot accurately 300 meters or more and have on you an abundant amount of ammo and be perfectly with in your right, that is stupid.

When allowing almost anyone to purchase a handgun, with no prior training, no physic evaluation or really running a back ground check of anykind, that is stupid. Even before you get your driver's license they at least test that you can drive the freaking thing!

Yep folks, it was JUST ANOTHER DAY in the US like it or not, lets hope some common sense finally sinks into the gun nuts( I am NOT anti-gun, but sorry the US is completely bonkers crazy with hand guns & military stuff, it is NUTS) and we see some progress, unlikely I know, but can still dream!

Special mention to Lizz who made some good middle common sense posts, see people can change, then looking at the other trump right wing types here you can CLEARLY see that in fact overall nothing much has changed but the blinders on these horse just got narrower, wonder they can see at all.

Is the script for the "in the Park" version of Shakespeare available?

If it follows Shakespeare's, the wrong man was murdered. As MA said, Caesar was ambitious, but he was about to start delivering on reform which a large segment of the Senate vehemently opposed. So, rich and ambitious but man-for-the-people Caesar was murdered by the 2%.

If the "in the Park" version follows the original... those who cheer the assassins are not only ignorant of history but, in Caesar's language, cunni  as well.

That house whip Scalise was shot by a Bernie Sanders supporter is no surprise. Didn't their violence at the DNC last summer not foreshadow this?

Bill Murphy, the lefties ignorance of history is no surprise. And of course we're well used to them manipulating the truth to their own ends.

Gapers now apologising for using this as a chance to say, "This will win us the next election" while Democrats have reached out to say this is something that should unite the nation in disgust at such people as the gunman. Disgraceful of those Republicans.

while Democrats have reached out to say this is something that should unite the nation in disgust at such people as the gunman. Disgraceful of those Republicans.

But it's ok for Sanders to say and incite his base that Trump is dangerous and the GOP are radicals. Words do matter and if you want to hold Trump accountable for what he said on the campaign trail, then you need to do the same to Bernie, the man shouldn't have used that kind of language. Now that's disgraceful.

The man who was shot is a right-wing Republican, with well known, publicly stated, anti-gay sentiments. The police officer who saved his life, and who got shot as well, is a black, female, lesbian. Any chance the congressman will apologize to the policewoman for his public statements opposing gay rights?

The murderer was a gullible consumer of corporate news like CNN, and a fan of Rachel Madow (sp). So what he was fed and consumed was hysterical, over-the-top, hate propaganda. Well, if low-information gullibles like this guy hear from their Rachel heroes every day that Trump is hitler, is satan, is the end of humanity, then of course in his little mind it is justified to do something. If he is facing pure evil, then suddenly murder becomes justified.

The blame for this belongs squarely to his feeder, Rachel Madow. It is the leftist (and I am using "leftist" only for lack of a better commonly used word) hate propagandists who have truly lost their marbles and are creating this.

Just to put things in perspective, can you even imagine a conservative publication sponsoring a theater play where someone dressed as Obama gets graphically murdered? Me neither, and I would not support it. Nuff said.

hate propaganda

Hate propaganda is free speech. Who cares? Allowing military grade weapons to be purchased as easily as a pair of socks at Uniqlo is NRA brainwash. If Scalise survives it won't be pretty. He could be missing a limb. He might have to use a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. Those assault rifle bullets tear up the human body like no pistol bullet can and leave a lifelong change. (One person was even able to take out five cops in Dallas with an assault rifle.) And what will he say about assault rifles being easy to buy after having to be confined to such indignity- after many many surgeries that can never fix the permanent damage? He is A+ in the eyes of the NRA (now). Will that grade sustain when he recovers and is politically active?

Attention NRA members of JT board: What is the practical use for assault rifles (other than mass murder)?

But it's ok for Sanders to say and incite his base that Trump is dangerous and the GOP are radicals. Words do matter and if you want to hold Trump accountable for what he said on the campaign trail, then you need to do the same to Bernie, the man shouldn't have used that kind of language. Now that's disgraceful.

I don't think any politicians, of whatever party, are genuine godfathers who can order a murder with a few words. (That's exaggerating, of course.) Politicians may speak freely - that's guaranteed by the Constitution. Politicians may speak stupidly - that's guaranteed by their lack of principles and knowledge of history.

That house whip Scalise was shot by a Bernie Sanders supporter is no surprise. Didn't their violence at the DNC last summer not foreshadow this?

As I recall, that violence was reportedly  instigated by operatives working with the knowledge of some people inside the DNC. In other words, Sanders supporters were framed. That Rep. Scalise was shot by someone with "political views" is no surprise, but Bernie Sanders didn't put him up to it.

It might be a good idea for more people to familiarize themselves with advanced political techniques as the "Reichstag fire" of February 27, 1933 showed. A lone arsenist who happened to be a left-winger was responsible. The Nazis were astute enough to take advantage of it to rule without parliament. The rest, as they say, is history.