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House votes to derail Obamacare, fund government

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It seems to me that if you live in America becoming ill will cost you great wads of cash. How can that be good for anyone? What's so bad about paying a small percentage of your wages every month to fund a free healthcare system?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Actually, most Americans were content with their health care "as is" before Obama started tinkering with it.

Actually, there are millions of Americans who have never been able to afford health care.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I can't believe that a country that thinks of itself as an "advanced" country doesn't even have health insurance.

Why is the U.S.A. so backward in so many ways?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Obamacare will lead to an expansion of these forms of medicine: 1. Concierge 2. Wal-Mart 3. ER 4. HMO 5. Mexican

Have you ever been to America? I ask because that is what exists there now - even Sarah Palin's father took her to Canada for medical treatment.

Health care should be bought and sold at free market rates.

And that it will be - in a rational way that allows consumers to understand what they're buying. There will be subsidies, sure, but in a way far more rational than the current "wait until you have a heart attack, come to the hospital, and then skip on the bill" reality. Really, those who oppose Obamacare should logically support laws requiring healthcare givers to comp uninsured patients on the sidewalk to die.

There was no reform to anything other than some of the regulations guiding WHO can obtain this insurance (pre-existing conditions, etc.).

Wrong. Really, many of the above comments convince me that what the polls say is true: that the majority of people who oppose the ACA don't understand it. The rate of medical care inflation is already dropping, and some expect it to flatten out within a few years.

Of course, all of this does not excuse the follies of the GOP, nor does it extract them from their well-deserved fate. Internecine warfare will grow only more terrifying.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

USA doesn't mean United Socialist Administration

That's right, and the USA isn't socialist. If it were, the government would provide healthcare without anyone having to buy insurance. Meanwhile, anyone griping about the government providing healthcare to people who were sick would be locked up. Hmmmm....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Boehner takes it upon himself to speak for all the American people. Now which side is irresponsible?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

And the beginning of the end of the Republican Party is starting right on schedule.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

3kunfuuSep. 21, 2013 - 12:59PM JST

Obamacare will ultimately bankrupt America. Health care should be bought and sold at free market rates.

You with no insurance will bankrupt you first in blink of eyes. A 2/3 of American senior citizens are in poverty with saving less than $2000.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Actually, most Americans were content with their health care "as is" before Obama started tinkering with it.

Personally, I favour a nationalized system with a private option for those who choose it, like in Japan or Europe. A standard of coverage for all, plus extra available privately for those who desire.

The Obamacare strategy just pushes people to the tender mercies of the insurance companies- who are also coincidentally large donors for the Democrats. It is the worst of both worlds.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

In case anyone cares, in 2012, 44 million Americans were without any healthcare, according to the CDC.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/uninsured-americans-2012_n_2918705.html

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I beg to differ with those that say majority of people don't want Obamacare! The majority of the ppl voted President Obama in office not once, but TWICE! Both times by overwhelming landslides with Obamacare being major factor for voting! It continues to be a problem in America with Republicans believing themselves the voice of the people. A very in rational concept especially considering they are a fractured party with members fleeing like rats on a sinking ship!

NO, THE MAJORITY SPOKE WHEN WE ELECTED PRESIDENT OBAMA and OBAMACARE!!!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

why mess up other people's healthcare plan

Because the idea of "protecting" other people's health care plan involves an industry that cherry-picks healthy people to provide coverage for while eliminating any losses from sick patients. To that extent it's the same battle that Republicans have been fighting which is to brand people as freeloaders or losers or whatever, then craft policy based on anecdotes and catchphrases to remove them from the system as if they'll just move along to another country or something.

But those sick people aren't going anywhere. They'll still wander into an ER and get treatment, the difference being that you and I will pay for it. So much for your plan of telling the losers to F-off. With the new system at least they will be required, by law, to be on an insurance plan.

Other countries can seem to handle having universal coverage. I have no idea why you think the US isn't up to the task.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As compared to the current health care in the US which is run at such a low cost and high performance... oh wait. No it's not. Americans currently spend significantly more for significantly less when it comes to healthcare.

I guess that 'less' makes them too stupid to see how reforming their health care makes sense.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

I want to ask this question to all who are against Obamacare.

Do you carry a decent healthcare coverage?

If coverage is decent and you are healthy, you are paying something $600/month if you are under 40 yrs old. Between 40-65, you are paying around $800/month (if you are healthy). If married with one kid, you are paying between $1200-1500/month. Your coverage should not have one million dollar cap, 20/80 coinsurance or $10-$25 HMO copay, less than $2000 deductible, or no deductible. Hope your are with insurance providers by the AM Best rating. The smaller one can go under any time and no payout to you when you need them. Anything other than what I have mentioned, you are just carrying a worthless paper. Many do not read 10 page coverage disclosure. Too bad.

You can tell me anything you want as I do not know and I do not care. But you need to ask the same question to yourself honestly . You cannot lie to yourself. Your probability of getting seriously ill or injured will increase as you age. You cannot stay healthy forever. You know that. Good luck.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

In the UK we pay National Insurance, which helps pay for the NHS... that way the healthcare we receive it free at point of receipt. If we want faster healthcare we can go private. This is what America needs: a healthcare service funded from the taxes and free to everyone, with the private doctors and hospitals/clinics there for those who want to pay for it. That way the people have all the healthcare they need, when they need it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

MarkGSep. 22, 2013 - 12:36AM JST

Fact - my company is looking at a 40 percent healthcare increase fo 2014. Direct from the CEO. And who will pay? The corporation I work for does not print money. I guess costs will be passed to the employees.

That's why college graduates are looking for a career in the best 50 major corporations as these corporations often offer the best health care insurance to employees. They are better position to negotiate the best possible underwriting rate from insurance providers. As you know the benefits weigh a 33% of total wages. So if you are making $100,000 annually , you are actually getting $133,000 as a whole package.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In order Not to pay Healthcare cost & lay it off to the taxpayer, our co. has Cut the hours of employees to less than 30 hrs. per week to many Full Time workers & hires Only Part-timers as new hires! It is Only Corparations & Big Buisness that will get ahead at the cost(as usual)of the middle(formerly) class & as this ACA stumbles along Too many common people will be hurt!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yes, Laguna, but I left before the socialist take-over reached the tipping point.

Yes, we all know that bubbling cauldron of socialism, the Heritage Foundation - it is that which first formulated the concept of Obamacare. Then, there was that radical socialist who first implemented it on a statewide scale, Romney. The requirement for all to ensure for their own healthcare costs - or even for a portion of them if indigent - is anathema to conservatism, which would rather continue relying in the free rider system. Adults required to insure their own healthcare costs via the free market: Socialism has never been more capitalistic.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Don't forget how "exceptional" American medicine is. It confused my uncle's food-poisoning with a heart attack and didn't detect my grandmother's cancer until stage four. If stem cell research, funding, and treatment is illegal in America is illegal because we might upset the sky fairy/God isn't the whole country, not just its medicine in need of reform?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The majority of us Americans don't want Obamacare. Only the 47 percenter moochers who don't pay taxes are for it.

Obama must be pleased he doesn't have to go to war in Syria because now he can fight his real enemy -- American taxpayers

The majority of Americans would be better off with Obamacare, but too stupid to realise it.

The fact is that Americans pay more taxes for current health care than Britain or Australia or most other countries that have 'socialised medicine'.

So basically they pay more and get less.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Strangerland.... tragically enough the ACA doesn't do one damn thing to reform "Health Care", either the provision of... or the high cost associated with it.

ACA is nothing more than an health INSURANCE program. There was no reform to anything other than some of the regulations guiding WHO can obtain this insurance (pre-existing conditions, etc.).

The cost of health care is still sky high.. and it's the overhead and cost of providing insurance that is the main reason for that. Sure, some people will now have access to health care they didn't before, but only because they are being provided insurance. The continuing high cost of actual CARE will either remain the same and costs will still go up because of the increased overhead to insure those people, or the cost will increase... likely for the same reason coupled with the additional ??? people obtaining that same care (via insurance).

Practioners are starting to accept cash payments at much lower costs than the same treatments paid for via any type of insurance.

The "stupid" people are the ones that keep referring to the ACA as health CARE reform.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Lizz: Obamacare will ultimately bankrupt America. Health care should be bought and sold at free market rates.

The current healthcare system is already bankrupting America. The health exchanges will force insurance companies to compete for business with more providers in more areas, moreso than exists today.

We already know that the government will be relying on the “honor system” for people to report their incomes, and thereby their eligibility, for exchange subsidies.

You will make a claim about your income which will be verified (with a subsidy adjustment) every time you file your taxes. There is no honor system.

Combine that with the fact that the exchange software can’t calculate what your subsidy actually is, and the result is that many people will be able to game the system to gain larger subsidies than the law intends. Never mind that pricing information has not been released by the HHS. The waste, fraud, and abuse alone will make your head spin.

The software can calculate what my subsidy will be, and yours, too. They're having problems with certain ages (over 65) in certain situations. Not worth destroying America's credit rating over something that will be fixed. The sky is not falling.

Laguna: a rational way that allows consumers to understand what they're buying.

Not if Republicans have their way. They are trying to require exchange employees to have the same level of certification as an insurance agent even though they will have different jobs. It's their way of trying to break the system in the 11th hour so they can scream that the system doesn't work. It's not a question of thinking ObamaCare will fail, but actively trying to make it fail.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sorry Bartholomew.....As super lib says change jobs. Dog eat dog world and only the strong shall survive.

Just my point here. Sure I can change jobs. But it does not have to be that way. As for finding employment with the top 50 for the recent grads sounds great to those fortunate individuals. To bad for the rest.

Obama care will stress middle income households. It is not what this nation needs right now.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

America has the best medicine in the world? Are you kidding me? I had to travel to Japan for stem cell therapy.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

jeff198527Sep. 22, 2013 - 08:11AM JST

America has the best medicine in the world? Are you kidding me? I had to travel to Japan for stem cell therapy.

Did not know Japan is already practicing stem cell therapy. To my understanding, it is still a clinical test stage in lab. I am curious, as I know a good candidate who can use that therapy. Please let me know a name of University hospital . Thanks.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Back on topic please.

" Have you ever been to America? I ask because that is what exists there now -"

Yes, Laguna, but I left before the socialist take-over reached the tipping point.

After Obamacare is fully implemented, the state of medical care will deteriorate significantly. Just watch.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

GOP: destined for the trashcan of history.

I'm Lovin It.™

1 ( +2 / -1 )

StrangerlandSep. 21, 2013 - 09:38AM JST

Any American too stupid to see that Obamacare is a good thing should lose their right to be treated as an intelligent being. They have proven themselves to be lower-intelligence entities, and should be treated as such.

Okay, I accept it. That's fine, you can call any name you want.

As I said before, we did a political research on Obamacare. I just want to share an remarkable research finding that most who are against Obamacare have no health care insurance or underinsured. Some of them are carrying a worthless catastrophe insurance believing they are covered. And most of them do not even know why they are against Obamacare. Pathetic! They do not know how the industry works against you if you become very sick.

I have worked all my life in the public and private sectors with an excellent health care coverage, and I am now retired with Medicare with a Medigap supplement health coverage and a long term care insurance.

We are willing to help you guys as we know how touch and miserable the life can be without insurance and get very sick. Maybe we should let it go as you suggest. Just do not get injured or sick!!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

-1

StrangerlandSep. 21, 2013 - 11:43AM JST

As compared to the current health care in the US which is run at such a low cost and high performance... oh wait. No it's not. Americans currently spend significantly more for significantly less when it comes to healthcare.

I guess that 'less' makes them too stupid to see how reforming their health care makes sense.

US offers the best of best Medicine and Aerospace Engineering in the world.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Were it not for the very serious economic ramifications, this would be quite enjoyable to watch. The GOP has boxed itself into a corner from which the only escape is to eat their own.

Republicans in the Senate have two chances to filibuster this - to prevent it from being introduced (which would be stupid as it is a Republican House bill) and to prevent a vote being taken after the ugly stuff is stripped out - which will be just days from the budget deadline. Any Republican who does not support such a filibuster will be a target of their own party.

The bill will then go back to the House. Boehner will be under great pressure not to introduce it - the Hasburt rule - but he will anyway, thus likely ending his speakership. It will then likely pass with a few Republicans deciding that the health of America is more important than this BS - and they will also be targeted.

To be sure, now is not a good time to be a Republican.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Farmboy,

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

It's unbelievable that a country that considers itself to be an advanced nation doesn't have health insurance.

"I'm obsessed with the mess that's America"

(Marina and the Diamonds)

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Assuming the 44 million figure is true, that means that approx. 85% of Americans were already covered by some kind of health insurance. Now of those 44 million, how many were uninsured by choice? How many due to immigration status? How many due to financial need? How many are eligible for some sort of insurance, but not rnrolled? These are important questions.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

CONCIERGE. The rich and very rich hire their own physicians. They pay top dollar. The physicians do not take third-party payments, either from the government or insurance companies. They are independent practitioners. They make house calls. The houses they call on are very large.

Riiiight! What had happened to Michael Jackson? Dead/Alive? These doctors do not follow medical ongoing state and Fed requirements to update their knowledge and skills. Do you bring your body to someone who has been practicing 1960 medicine?

For the upper middle class, there are fee-for-service physicians. They take no third-party payments. They do not make house calls.

Riiiight!! There are many who can afford a 5 million house while they cannot afford to buy health insurance. They get a panic when they really get sick. They often go to the ER for treatment. The hospital can legally subrogate after their asset for all incurred unpaid bills.

WAL-MART. These are the walk-in clinics. They are price competitive. They treat minor ailments. They sell services on a one-time basis. They take credit cards. They may or may not cater to the Medicare crowd. They are assembly-line clinics. There are no major surgeries or other high-cost, high-risk services.

This is just a walk-in clinic only good for minor injuries, cold and flu. You get what you pay for.

HMO. This style of medicine is efficient. It cuts costs by cutting services and cutting time. You see the physician on duty. You may not have seen him before. His job is to get you in and out as fast as possible. Time is monitored by the company. Computers make this easy.

Not really as you described. The medical providers accept both HMO and other insurance coverage with high co insurance.

ER. Large hospital emergency rooms are mandated by law.

Obamacare clearly states doctors, hospitals, technicians, nurses can REFUSE treatments to NON INSURED. NO MORE MANDATE!!

It is possible to get very good surgical care in Asia and Latin America. You have to know who the good practitioners are. Asian hospitals sell for 25% the same level of services. There is less regulation there. Plane fares are cheap. A stay in a hotel is cheap.

CNN had a special last week on this. Your quality of medical care depends on where you live.

I am glad my hospital is on the list of the best top 50 hospitals in USA. As I said before on JT that my quality of life is a top priority in life. I made that choice about 40 years ago to live here.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Obamacare will not destroy the U.S. economy, Trickle Down economics already has. Notice David Stockman uses the word "destroyed" instead of destroy.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy-2010-08-10

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Assuming the 44 million figure is true, that means that approx. 85% of Americans were already covered by some kind of health insurance.

Actually this figure is somewhat deceptive. As many Americans do not know the difference between a catastrophe insurance to a healthcare insurance, unfortunately. That's why we did a political research (random sample) on Obamacare. We assume the true figure should be around 80%. When including UNDER insured, the figure is about 70%.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fact - my company is looking at a 40 percent healthcare increase fo 2014. Direct from the CEO. And who will pay? The corporation I work for does not print money. I guess costs will be passed to the employees.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

MarkG: Fact - my company is looking at a 40 percent healthcare increase fo 2014. Direct from the CEO.

Good riddance if you can't keep up. Another company will fill your shoes.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

As for finding employment with the top 50 for the recent grads sounds great to those fortunate individuals. To bad for the rest.

Kids are in college to learn problem solving skills to be a decision maker that they can use in real world. Many of top performers in college are trying to keep GPA above 3.5 consciously because of the reason listed above. They spend a lot of time in research for these company's backgrounds first before accepting interviews. Instead of being interviewed, they are taking initiatives to interview them.

In order Not to pay Healthcare cost & lay it off to the taxpayer, our co. has Cut the hours of employees to less than 30 hrs. per week to many Full Time workers & hires Only Part-timers as new hires!

I hear this all the time. If you are a decision maker at work place, no need to worry. The corporate world need a decision maker 24/7.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You can't even read the Manuel or no one can give me a clear and detailed information about this complexed system.

Go to HealthCare.gov (https://www.healthcare.gov/quick-answers/#step-1) and enter in your information. On October 1 it will give you your plan options and prices.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"I had an excellent healthcare plan in the states, many people do"

That's great, bass, can you help me to get one?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

global - I am talking about getting health insurance if I return to the States before I'm 65.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The TeaPublican has just move a carrot to the end of September. Hopeless idiots.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Clearly Obamacare won't be defunded outright, but if they can stay strong enough to allow an indefinite shutdown, the House could force a compromise. Delay implementation for 2 years. The longer it’s delayed, the less chance it has of being implemented. You fight to win, but if you lose, the fact that you fought is a moral victory, so don't give up the fight. :)

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Any American too stupid to see that Obamacare is a good thing should lose their right to be treated as an intelligent being. They have proven themselves to be lower-intelligence entities, and should be treated as such.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Obama care will stress the middle class even more than it has been in the last few years. Job creations are part time positions to avoid benefits (thanks ACA) States and Fed spending millions to promote...yep, ACA. Does it need phony promotions to sell the public?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

They can't even write a danged calculator....going live in 10 days, the federal government's health care exchange is still miscalculating prices. Of course the software contractors are cleaning up regardless to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324807704579085472970959370.html

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Typical Fed run program. High cost low performance.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The Republicans are owned by corporations , these corporations are angry that they no longer will get a tax subsidy to purchase insurance because it will now go to the individual. The Republicans enjoy "government healthcare" but they claim they are going to rescue the Americans from "government healthcare". That is hysterical!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Too many common people will be hurt!

And not only creating more unemployment but denying life sustaining care to the elderly. Obamacare's defenders say that raiding Medicare to finance it by cutting payments to hospitals will knock out waste and excessive profits. Funny how that works. The only ones I know are getting kidney dialysis and cancer centers closed and home or hospice care shut down.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

3kunfuuSep. 22, 2013 - 03:28PM JST

You with no insurance will bankrupt you first in blink of eyes. A 2/3 of American senior citizens are in poverty with saving less than $2000.

Whatever happened to the good old fashioned, "get a job"?

As Jesus said, have a mercy on them, have a compassion on them and love them. These are too old to take care of themselves. Taking a bath is a hard task of the day. Do you have a grandparents who are over 70 years old? Maybe you left your heart in your mother's womb.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

SerranoSep. 22, 2013 - 10:46PM JST

"I had an excellent healthcare plan in the states, many people do"

That's great, bass, can you help me to get one?

Why do you need one? You are getting a Japanese National Healthcare. Why do you waste your money?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

SerranoSep. 23, 2013 - 12:29AM JST

global - I am talking about getting health insurance if I return to the States before I'm 65.

hmmm. I am not sure... I was told there are certain qualifications you need to satisfy. Hope at least, you are American.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

JeanValJeanSep. 22, 2013 - 11:43AM JST

" Have you ever been to America? I ask because that is what exists there now -"

Yes, Laguna, but I left before the socialist take-over reached the tipping point.

Well, Jean, you have been away from US too long as well as many others on JT.

US is in a new social and cultural setting called "we will do this together" mode, and it is nothing to do with liberal agenda. FYI

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"debt ceiling"

This debt ceiling is a serious impediment to government spending - get rid of it! LOL

“We voted on Obamacare,” Pryor said. “It’s the law of the land; it’s been to the Supreme Court. It’s not perfect"

It's not perfect all right.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The USA has health coverage for most employees, Medicare, welfare already.

The flaw in our current system is the working class with low income jobs generally unskilled stepping stone jobs. They are now fewer students in these jobs and more retired folks and immigrants.

Can we ever return to a USA with the majority employed full time with livable wages without labor unions this time? Many more tax paying citizens and less tax liability citizens.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I beg to differ with those that say majority of people don't want Obamacare!

Then how do you explain the Congress that exempted itself and polls that continue to show a drop off in support for the law ? I think something like 40% nationally and not even 60% among Democrats. Clearly it was not an issue in the last election -- Romney has his own sordid history on the issue and the Obama team, for its part, used Romneycare to insulate itself from attacks on ObamaCare. Americans believed the president when he promised it would not add to the deficit, they could keep existing plans & doctors, etc., a good minority must have assumed that free insurance cards were already in the mail. A lot of people are only now learning how they have been hustled for a boondoogle into which everyone pays and no one ever wins, at least not with coverage worth having -- either die young or kill off the elderly from the poor quality government healthcare they're implementing on our behalf.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

You with no insurance will bankrupt you first in blink of eyes. A 2/3 of American senior citizens are in poverty with saving less than $2000.

Whatever happened to the good old fashioned, "get a job"?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Obamacare will ultimately bankrupt America. Health care should be bought and sold at free market rates.

And in this morning’s Wall Street Journal comes word that the exchange software, for which the government has spent upwards of $88 million, still can’t correctly calculate the amount of subsidies that an individual applicant is eligible for. We already know that the government will be relying on the “honor system” for people to report their incomes, and thereby their eligibility, for exchange subsidies. Combine that with the fact that the exchange software can’t calculate what your subsidy actually is, and the result is that many people will be able to game the system to gain larger subsidies than the law intends. Never mind that pricing information has not been released by the HHS. The waste, fraud, and abuse alone will make your head spin.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/20/wsj-obamacare-software-cant-reliably-determine-enrollees-eligibility-for-subsidies/

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

" I can't believe that a country that thinks of itself as an "advanced" country doesn't even have health insurance. Why is the U.S.A. so backward in so many ways?"

Bertie, in case you don't know, USA doesn't mean United Socialist Administration. That's France and much of Europe.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Maybe if doctors and hospitals couldn't be sued for millions of dollars, medical treatment and insurance wouldn't be so ridiculously expensive.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The majority of us Americans don't want Obamacare. Only the 47 percenter moochers who don't pay taxes are for it.

Obama must be pleased he doesn't have to go to war in Syria because now he can fight his real enemy -- American taxpayers

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Obamacare will lead to an expansion of these forms of medicine:

Concierge 2. Wal-Mart 3. ER 4. HMO 5. Mexican

CONCIERGE. The rich and very rich hire their own physicians. They pay top dollar. The physicians do not take third-party payments, either from the government or insurance companies. They are independent practitioners. They make house calls. The houses they call on are very large.

For the upper middle class, there are fee-for-service physicians. They take no third-party payments. They do not make house calls.

WAL-MART. These are the walk-in clinics. They are price competitive. They treat minor ailments. They sell services on a one-time basis. They take credit cards. They may or may not cater to the Medicare crowd. They are assembly-line clinics. There are no major surgeries or other high-cost, high-risk services.

ER. Large hospital emergency rooms are mandated by law. The poor get treated there. In a life-and-death emergency, they work. People who would otherwise die in a couple of hours are saved. For walk-in patients, the ERs ration by time. Patients demonstrate their patience.

HMO. This style of medicine is efficient. It cuts costs by cutting services and cutting time. You see the physician on duty. You may not have seen him before. His job is to get you in and out as fast as possible. Time is monitored by the company. Computers make this easy.

MEXICAN. This is off-shore medicine. In Canada, when you can’t get treated for months or years, you come to the United States and pay. This will not be possible for Canadians much longer, except for rich ones. Mexico will serve upper middle-class Americans as the USA has served Canadians.

It is possible to get very good surgical care in Asia and Latin America. You have to know who the good practitioners are. Asian hospitals sell for 25% the same level of services. There is less regulation there. Plane fares are cheap. A stay in a hotel is cheap.

There will be entrepreneurs who set up Websites off-shore that direct Americans to practitioners abroad. The Web allows this sort of advertising.

Physicians who practice alone or in small limited liability corporations will find that they cannot compete under the new payment system. Assembly-line medicine will replace the traditional doctor-patient relationship.

TRAPPED

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I beg to differ with those that say majority of people don't want Obamacare! The majority of the ppl voted President Obama in office not once, but TWICE! Both times by overwhelming landslides with Obamacare being major factor for voting! It continues to be a problem in America with Republicans believing themselves the voice of the people. A very in rational concept especially considering they are a fractured party with members fleeing like rats on a sinking ship!

NO, THE MAJORITY SPOKE WHEN WE ELECTED PRESIDENT OBAMA and OBAMACARE!!!

Sorry, but you're wrong about that.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

And that unpopularity is gaining traction.

Most liberals like just don't care about the cost of this thing, not to mention what's in it. You can't even read the Manuel or no one can give me a clear and detailed information about this complexed system. This thing will add to the deficit, even though Obama said it wouldn't. The man can't even do math properly. Now do I think the Republicans should defund the thing, I do not. I think from a political and stratigic POV it could backfire on them, there are other ways of going about this. We are 17 trillion in debt and now this? So that means, Bernake can print more money and we ca borrow more from China. Obama wants the debt ceiling raised.....again and the only thing that it will do is raise the debt, yet once again, which then he will ask and this is a never ending perpetual cycle with this President! This thing will fail, no question about it.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@bertie

I can't believe that a country that thinks of itself as an "advanced" country doesn't even have health insurance.

I had an excellent healthcare plan in the states, many people do, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. The problem is, if Obama is going to fix the healthcare system and as I said! I think it does, but for the people that don't have proper or no insurance! I think it's great and necessary, but don't change mine! Leave it alone. I was doing fine before this president messed it up! You got a hole in your boat, patch it up, you don't need to buy a brand new one, that's ridiculous.

Why is the U.S.A. so backward in so many ways?

I ask myself that exact same question about the world, really.

"I'm obsessed with the mess that's America"

As long as we keep THIS president in office, don't expect the mess to get better, in fact, expect it to get worst until hopefully 2017

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

“If Congress doesn’t pass this debt ceiling in the next few weeks, the United States will default on its obligations. That’s never happened in American history. Basically, America becomes a deadbeat,” Obama said.

... this is all premised on a massive lie. National Debt is a result mostly of what is referred to as "public debt". How does a government get public debt?

Well, in the past if you wanted to guarantee a debt you'd buy gold, and hold that as a guarantee. These days banks, insurance companies and other major corporations buy bonds in currencies, e.g. a bond worth 100 million U.S. dollars. These are used to guarantee debts, are traded, and otherwise used as guarantees in the global financial arena. The U.S. dollar fluctuates, but over the long-term it is pretty stable, so it is one of the preferred international guarantees for financial transactions.

These bonds are VIRTUALLY NEVER cashed in... in fact if they were cashed in there wouldn't be enough printed currency to meet the debt. Almost always these bonds are either kept as security or traded as-is. As a result the U.S. is NOT in danger of having to pay their "public debt". No-one is going to come knocking looking for that money.

What is at stake here is much more nebulous, and much harder for the public to grasp, hence the outright lie by Obama. What these bonds (and the money backing them) reflect is confidence in the U.S. economy by the international banks and other major players. If the U.S. is unable to balance its books this will make the international players jumpy, and fearful that the U.S. currency might not be as stable as they thought. This will result in some or all of them turning to other currencies to secure their transactions. The U.S. economy BADLY needs the money from selling bonds, and really cannot afford any slow-down in people buying U.S. bonds.

So, for those of you who are still following, if the U.S. handles this situation well then the U.S. national debt will rise even more as more bonds are sold. This isn't a bad thing, it means that people are betting on the U.S. succeeding, and are likely to take steps to protect their money (for your interest, one of the biggest markets in the world for these bonds is China... yes, Chinese companies are betting on the U.S. succeeding). This is good for the U.S. Get rid of the idea that national debt is a bad thing. If the U.S. handles this badly then its going to be rats off a sinking ship time, and the U.S. economy will hit another slow-down.

P.S. It is not without significance that Obama attempted to launch the attack on Syria just before this critical period. Had he done so he would probably not have been opposed, and the war-spending would have protected the U.S. economy against the slow-down. I don't approve of Obama's tactics, it would have been a war crime and blood money, but that doesn't stop me from understanding what he was trying to do. If only the U.S. public had the same understanding of their economy... and a president who didn't stand up a lie through his teeth instead of just explaining quickly what this debt really is (but then maybe he doesn't understand either?... although I sincerely doubt that).

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The Republicans are owned by corporations , these corporations are angry that they no longer will get a tax subsidy to purchase insurance because it will now go to the individual. The Republicans enjoy "government healthcare" but they claim they are going to rescue the Americans from "government healthcare". That is hysterical!

And who owns the Democrats? Union hacks. Lobbyists, Hollywood and loony environmentalists. Get off of it, the Dems enjoy the same governmental healthcare, especially the ones in congress. The Dems want to overhaul the system! I think it does need some tweaking, not for the people that already have decent insurance! but for the ones that don't. And they can't even do that right. They are doing the opposite.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Yes, we all know that bubbling cauldron of socialism, the Heritage Foundation - it is that which first formulated the concept of Obamacare.

Seems like all the horrors they were warning us about is coming to fruition.

Then, there was that radical socialist who first implemented it on a statewide scale, Romney.

We are talking about a small state, NOT insuring the entire country.

The requirement for all to ensure for their own healthcare costs - or even for a portion of them if indigent - is anathema to conservatism, which would rather continue relying in the free rider system. Adults required to insure their own healthcare costs via the free market: Socialism has never been more capitalistic.

Again, radify the system for the uninsured, why mess up other people's healthcare plan, why overhaul the entire system, a system that the majority of people don't want and that voice is getting louder.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Obamacare will ultimately bankrupt America. Health care should be bought and sold at free market rates.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Any American too stupid to see that Obamacare is a good thing should lose their right to be treated as an intelligent being. They have proven themselves to be lower-intelligence entities, and should be treated as such.

So now you have to resort to generalizing, name calling and trolling? You are on a roll today.

@superlib

And the beginning of the end of the Republican Party is starting right on schedule.

Highly doubt it, the Dems and even more so the President have been doing a dandy job at not only making themselves look weak, spineless, incompetent and inept, but this Obamacare is virtually a "dead man walking" the Repubs really don't have to do anything, it'll collapse of its own weight, it's not feesable, it's mostly unpopular and the Dems know it. But I don't want the Repubs or Conservatives to do anything. I just want to sit back and watch and pray the whole thing falls apart.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

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