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Hungary's Orban criticized for 'neutrality' in Ukraine war

37 Comments
By JUSTIN SPIKE

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37 Comments

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“I want to stop here and be honest, once and for all. You have to decide for yourself who you are with,” Zelenskyy said.

I don't get this "You're either with us or against us" childish mentality.

The world needs more diplomacy and dialog.

Hungary could act as a mediator here and even offered Budapest as a venue for talks.

Why does everybody has to choose either 100% with team X or 100% with Team Z.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

-Desmond Tutu

0 ( +5 / -5 )

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

Switzerland, Sweden and Austria have all opted for neutrality and refused to join NATO.

These countries have made the right choice.

Geopolitics is not as simple as team X is always 100% good and Team Z is always 100% bad.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

And yet Switzerland, Sweden and Austria despite not being NATO, are all standing against Russia.

Thanks for your advice on geopolitics, friend. I will take it under advisement.

I am American, and we (most of us anyway) certainly do not think that Iraqis are 100% bad and the neocons are good. The unprovoked, unwarranted attack of 20 years is certainly a stain on my country.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

edit - maybe not Austria. Still looking at that one.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

https://www.reuters.com/world/austria-says-it-wants-add-more-russian-oligarchs-eu-sanctions-list-2022-03-16/

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Switzerland is maintaining neutrality.

They have refused to send weapons to Ukraine and have maintained diplomatic ties with Russia.

The Swiss have it right, they support dialog and diplomacy and never arm one side or the other.

And this is why many international institutions are based in Switzerland, they are trusted worldwide.

Peace and neutrality is the answer.

Weapons, war and division are not.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Switzerland could do more for sure, but they have joined in on some of the sanctions and are seizing Russian assets. Lots of places are not sending weapons to Ukraine and maintaining diplomatic ties with Russia. F neutrality against oppression.

https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/switzerland-reinforces-its-sanctions-against-russia

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1087712588/switzerland-joins-sanctions-against-russia-but-claims-it-remains-legally-neutral

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/swiss-freeze-more-than-6-billion-worth-sanctioned-russian-assets-2022-03-24/

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Where are you getting your news from, Bronco? If they hadn't picked up this unprecedented story about Switzerland, maybe they aren't that good?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Switzerland is maintaining neutrality.

You need to keep up and read more widely. Switzerland is not maintaining neutrality.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Switzerland is maintaining neutrality.

They have refused to send weapons to Ukraine and have maintained diplomatic ties with Russia.

The Swiss helped finance the Nazi genocides. Their railroads carried war materials to Germany from Italian ports. They have never been neutral when there is money to be made. They are a vile nation and are not to be admired.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Mr. Orban and his party have followed the Vladimir Putin playbook very closely forcing opposition media to close, waging an ideological war against anyone who is not a white heterosexual Christian, while claiming that Hungary was "under attack" by liberal western forces (under attack even as those same liberal western forces admitted his nation to the EU and NATO). He rails against George Soros, even forces the Soros Foundation to decamp from their home and the birthplace of George Soros, never mind that Mr. Orban himself received a scholarship to Oxford from the Soros Foundation. Another nationalist, racist, authoritarian loudmouth strong man in the Vladimir Putin mold.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Switzerland, Sweden and Austria have all opted for neutrality and refused to join NATO.

Btw, the Swiss Army has troops and helicopters in the Balkans as part of KFOR. Sweden routinely participates in NATO exercises and has been in the process of making their equipment NATO compatible. The Swedes had an infantry battalion fighting in Afghanistan under the umbrella of a larger German NATO contingent there. Finland likewise participates in NATO exercises and is part of a Nordic Air Defense group that includes NATO member Denmark. The Finns are trading their current fleet of F/A-18s for a slightly larger number of F-35As to ensure they can operate seamlessly with NATO forces if the need ever arises. The Swedes co-produce with BAE of the UK to ensure their equipment is similarly NATO compatible, and so they can sell their aircraft and armaments to NATO members. Sweden lent one of their subs to the US Navy in San Diego for two years so the US could study and exercise against a small diesel electric sub with air-independent propulsion to test sensors and tactics. The Swedes swapped out crewmembers monthly. SAAB Draken fighters are a popular aggressor aircraft for US military training. There are 8 or 10 of them not far from me. Total coolness too, they could supercruise back in the 1960s before anyone else' combat jet could. Their "neutrality" is not as black and white as you think. They are more integrated with NATO than you are apparently aware.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Are they afraid, or do they believe an autocracy is the best form of government?

Neutrality, however, is one thing, but providing aid and comfort to the enemy is another.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

We're slowly watching the emergence of a New World Order.

China, Iran, Syria and Cuba firmly standing with Russia.

India, Brazil, UAE, Pakistan, Hungary, Israel and so on all deciding to remain on the fence in what actually is a huge snub to the US.

Saudi's selling oil in Yuan (bye bye USD)

India buying Russian oil in Rubles (bye bye USD)

The EU starting the paperwork to pay for Russian gas in Rubles (bye bye USD)

Did Putin attack Ukraine or did he actually attack the USD?

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

We're slowly watching the emergence of a New World Order.

China, Iran, Syria and Cuba firmly standing with Russia.

India, Brazil, UAE, Pakistan, Hungary, Israel and so on all deciding to remain on the fence in what actually is a huge snub to the US.

Saudi's selling oil in Yuan (bye bye USD)

India buying Russian oil in Rubles (bye bye USD)

The EU starting the paperwork to pay for Russian gas in Rubles (bye bye USD)

Did Putin attack Ukraine or did he actually attack the USD?

Spot on.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

We're slowly watching the emergence of a New World Order.

China, Iran, Syria and Cuba firmly standing with Russia.

What’s new about that?!

The EU starting the paperwork to pay for Russian gas in Rubles (bye bye USD)

Sure about that?https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-24/europe-rejects-putin-s-demand-for-natural-gas-payments-in-rubles

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The world needs more diplomacy and dialog.

Bronco, while that is certainly true, it is fully within Ukraine's rights to demand a complete withdrawal - including from Crimea - as a precursor to talks. Ukraine agreeing to refrain from NATO membership in exchange for NATO guarantees of Ukrainian territorial integrity is a compromise Zelensky seems prepared to accept, along with more autonomy for areas with a heavy ethnic Russian population.

However, a thief who invades your living room, kidnaps your children, and encamps there is not one to negotiate with. Putin must first withdraw. Until then, it is not only the Ukrainians but the Russian people who will suffer.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What's the difference between Ukraine demanding a complete withdrawal and the Palestinians demanding the same

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Orban has done nothing wrong but the own good for Hungary, why should he know towing to a foreign influencing?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Hungary's Orban criticized for 'neutrality' in Ukraine war:

Why should he be criticized?

Hungary has every right to stay neutral, for the leader aims to defend his country's peace and security.

Moreover, Hungary is a major beneficiary of Russia's energy source..

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“The answer to the question of which side Hungary is on is that Hungary is on Hungary’s side,” Orban wrote Saturday on social media.

Well he does have a point. Having another neighbor pulled into this only widens the chance of WW3.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

India buying Russian oil in Rubles (bye bye USD)

That is not true. An oil company in India wants to buy Russian oil at a steep discount and has asked the Indian government to explore a way to do so exchanging Rupees for Rubles. A suitable exchange mechanism, however, has not been identified.

https://www.voanews.com/a/6493140.html

Saudi's selling oil in Yuan (bye bye USD)

China and the Saudis have been talking about this for six years. So far no agreement, but the Saudis may be making noise to use as leverage with the US.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/saudi-switch-to-yuan-seen-as-symbolic-not-true-threat-to-dollar

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Hungary has every right to stay neutral, for the leader aims to defend his country's peace and security.

Hungary is also a member of the EU and NATO. They are obliged to be team players and not undercut the very allies they would rely upon were they attacked.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ukraine agreeing to refrain from NATO membership in exchange for NATO guarantees of Ukrainian territorial integrity is a compromise

It is NATO membership in all but name. It won't fly. For such an arrangement to be effective Ukrainian forces would have to train to NATO standard with the forces of other NATO members.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China, Iran, Syria and Cuba firmly standing with Russia.

Sounds like the Cold War. Substitute Egypt and Libya for Iran. Same difference. Russia had its nuclear forces stationed in Egypt back then btw in the form of two nuclear Scud battalions. Soviet Frontal Aviation fought fierce air battles with the Israeli Air Force over the Sinai Desert, and years later over the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

why is the mouse assumed as the victim here? We have zero context as to what has happened here.

So I can choose either side or just the side YOU choose?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

why is the mouse assumed as the victim here? We have zero context as to what has happened here.

No you don't. That is simply not true. Russia invaded a sovereign state to take its territory by force and attempted to overthrow it democratically elected government for having the temerity of rejecting close association with Russia preferring to become part of the EU and NATO. We have all the context in the world. But some here still cling to their affinity to the Russian butcher over democratically elected popular government.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Blacklabel - You can choose either side or neither. That's up to each of us, of course. The implication of Archbishop Tutu's quote is that neutrality benefits the oppressor.

So I can choose either side or just the side YOU choose?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hungary's Orban criticized for 'neutrality' in Ukraine war

It's quite normal for a independent state.

To be on it's own side.

Hungarian official position: Hungary is not on Russian or Ukrainian side.

Hungary is on Hungarian side.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

No you don't. That is simply not true. Russia invaded a sovereign state to take its territory by force

Try to find map of Ukraine before entering Russian empire.

You will be surprised.

Once upon the time it was Ukraine but in very different borders...

It's like a divorce - maiden name and return of dowry

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

why is the mouse assumed as the victim here? We have zero context as to what has happened here.

Forest? There is no forest here. Only trees.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The EU starting the paperwork to pay for Russian gas in Rubles (bye bye USD)

> Not correct and in fact EU stated that will not happen. That is what Putin wants. They will pay in the currency in their contract agreements

If they will not pay in roubles - they received no gas. Simple and clear.

"Contracts" were broken by EU after they freeze russian assets in Euro/Dollars.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Try to find map of Ukraine before entering Russian empire.

Ahhh, the old "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out as well" argument. A classic, but nonsense none the less.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

uh huh. you were told the mouse was the oppressed and you simply and blindly follow like a child.

Maybe the elephant was non violently stepping on the mouse tail to hold him until the police arrived.

Because the sneaky and deceitful mouse stole from the virtuous and kind elephant. thinking his speed would allow him to get away. but he got caught.

Point is, you dont know why the elephant is standing on the mouse tail and you wont even question or ask for context. simply refuse to educate yourself and develop your own informed opinion.

Just obediently follow what someone else tells you.

Mouse, good. Elephant, bad, every situation, right?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I mean, a country of 144 million invaded a nation of 44 million because they "felt threatened."

First of all: population of Ukraine (real population) in the January of 2022 was about 30 million. Not 44.

 During post-soviet times Ukraine suffer economic collapse, deindustrialization.

Lot of Ukrainians emigrated, or just go to work and leave in foreign lands.

May be less than 30. Some specialists talk about figure 26 million.

In 1991 (last year of Soviet era) it was about 52 million.

Just compare.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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