ICC expected to launch war crimes cases against Russians over Ukraine

Putin convicted and at the end of a rope would do. Better would be from a lamp post in Russia at the hands of his own citizens though.

Stay strong defenders of Ukraine! Bakhmut holds on for another day. Let's get the Ukrainians the tools they need to expel the invaders from their lands.

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1635359501640691712

There’s going to be a very long list of Russians too scared to step outside their borders for the rest of their lives.

Put Mini-me at the top of the list.

If the ICC does not condemn too the crimes of the Ukrainian regime against the Russian ethnic group in Donbass for the last 8 years, this is no less a pathetic and idealistic anti-Russian effort of the decadent and worn-out US-NATO circus..

Let's hope China can make great efforts to achieve peace negotiations, if it did it with Iran and Saudi Arabia, it can do it again, before the US and Europe get tired of squandering millions on weapons that the Ukrainian regime has not been able to use it well...

This is a war of attrition and believe me that Russia has much more capacity and resistance than the decadent west. Do not forget that Russia defeated Nazism in 1945 and they will do it again.

If the ICC does not condemn too the crimes of the Ukrainian regime against the Russian ethnic group in Donbass for the last 8 years, this is no less a pathetic and idealistic anti-Russian effort of the decadent and worn-out US-NATO circus..

What crimes? Please be specific. This certainly seems to be you repeating Kremlin talking points. When you mention ethnic Russians in Ukraine, do you mean the separatist fighters Russia has been arming there for the past 9 years?

This is a war of attrition and believe me that Russia has much more capacity and resistance than the decadent west. Do not forget that Russia defeated Nazism in 1945 and they will do it again.

Lol historical inaccuracies aside, the Russian economy (and military) pales in comparison to the size and strength of the EU and US.

Konstantin Kosachyov, deputy speaker of Russia's upper house of parliament, said the ICC had no jurisdiction over the country since Moscow withdrew its backing in 2016. "The ICC is an instrument of neo-colonialism in the hands of the West," he said.

Well we know that is obvious. Where are the ICC trials over Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, etc...

Funny how certain western countries can do as they please and no ICC but cross the USA and suddenly "oh we need ICC trials

And for the go go go ICC pleas note

At present 123 nations have ratified the Rome Statute and are members of the ICC Assembly of States Parties. While the United States played a central role in the establishment of the Rome Statute that created the ICC, the United States is not a State Party.

so again do as we say not as we do situation.

Do not forget that Russia defeated Nazism in 1945 and they will do it again.

The Soviets (of which the Ukrainians were a part) defeated those who invaded their lands, and they will do it again.

Lol historical inaccuracies aside, the Russian economy (and military) pales in comparison to the size and strength of the EU and US.

Russia - if Dunning-Kruger were a country.

@Tokyo?living  Ukrainian regime against the Russian ethnic group in Donbass for the last 8 years,

If they do investigate what might have happened in Donbas, they should be able to see that the Wagner Group was there then at the behest of the Kremlin instigating natiness, doing what they had done in Crimea, (as 'little green men') Syria, Mali and elsewhere.

correction to *07 post:

Wagner Group instigating nastiness

Remember when all the military contractors with no insignia on their uniforms streamed over the border ,as in FROM Russia) to “declare independence”?

Me too. It was a Russian instigation from the start.

ICC would easily recognize it as such, much to the consternation of the “International” clique here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Oleksandr_Matsievskyi

Looks like he was a Ukrainian born in Moldova. What difference does that make? Did you see the video?

Oleksandr Matsievskyi was executed by Russian troops and the fact he was Moldovian changed nothing. He was fighting for Ukraine.

The Soviets (of which the Ukrainians were a part) defeated those who invaded their lands, and they will do it again.

Not so fast.

Ukrainians cooperated with NAZI Germany the OUN UPA with others including the Ukrainian police participated in massacres of pole lithuanians Jews Roma ukrainians Russians alongside the Germans,

Babi Yar (Russian: Ба́бий Яр) or Babyn Yar (Ukrainian: Бабин Яр)

It was the Ukrainians that rounded up the Jews,

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

Was conducted by UPA.

Many more but to even say what is said by every other country including the USA Poland about these crimes would get you arrested in Ukraine, since 2015 it is a crime to say UPA was responsible for any ethnic cleansing despite at the time they themselves boasting that they did the massacres.

So under the present Ukrainian regime they have officially whitewashed their past participation in Ethnic cleaning, why because how best to repeat history? Well erase it so you can try again!

Ukrainians cooperated with NAZI Germany the OUN UPA with others including the Ukrainian police participated in massacres of pole lithuanians Jews Roma ukrainians Russians alongside the Germans,

So did Russia. What's your point?

Yemen pacified the Saudis,the US withdrew support,you figure

Cards fan

Today 08:41 am JST

Ukrainians cooperated with NAZI Germany the OUN UPA with others including the Ukrainian police participated in massacres of pole lithuanians Jews Roma ukrainians Russians alongside the Germans,

> So did Russia. What's your point?

No Russian law forbidding calling these ethnic cleansing groups what they are, criminals, if Ukraine is not engaged in ethnic cleansing, if Ukraine doesn't have NAZI/fascists then why pass a law that makes it illegal to point out the crimes by OUN UPA and others?

No Russian law forbidding calling these ethnic cleansing groups what they are, criminals, if Ukraine is not engaged in ethnic cleansing, if Ukraine doesn't have NAZI/fascists then why pass a law that makes it illegal to point out the crimes by OUN UPA and others?

No, Russia allied with the Nazis. They committed genocides against minorities too. Pathetic defense of Russian Imperialism is all this is.

Most here are intelligent enough not to believe Russian news, but are so ready to believe everything the USA UK and EU and their MSM tell them.

Yesterday here there was an article

Russian advance stalls in Ukraine's Bakhmut, think tank says

i just read it and it was hilarious seeing even pro Ukraine sites and geolocated images showed not only has it not stalled but Russia moved further north West taking more land and another town as it as predicted by non "think tanks" that Russia wouldn't bypass eraes to take more territory before closing the gap on Bakhmut.

So western news and Zelensky say one thing then facts on the ground include Ukrainian government's own reports keep saying differently

Most here are intelligent enough not to believe Russian news,

Yet some people here claim they don't believe Russian news, and then turn right around and repost Russian state media.

No, Russia allied with the Nazis.

Actually no! Stalin and his right hand man were Georgian, something so many don't like mentioning.

Millions died under him including Russians but his beloved Georgia didn't suffer like the rest

But imagine if Ukraine complained about the Georgian Soviet leader.

Just doesn't work.

As many ethic Russians died as Ukrainian under the forced starvation by Stalin but again doesn't fit the Ukrainian Nationalist narrative.

Actually no! Stalin and his right hand man were Georgian, something so many don't like mentioning.

lol No. He was the leader of Russia. What absurd reasoning. Good grief.

Ukraine is one giant crime scene. Every time a Ukrainian citizen has been murdered, raped or tortured at the hands of these foreign invaders is a crime.

Ukrainians cooperated with NAZI Germany the OUN UPA with others including the Ukrainian police participated in massacres of pole lithuanians Jews Roma ukrainians Russians alongside the Germans, 

Babi Yar (Russian: Ба́бий Яр) or Babyn Yar (Ukrainian: Бабин Яр)

It was the Ukrainians that rounded up the Jews, 

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

Was conducted by UPA.

Inconvenient truths. Plenty more.

All you have to do is ask each defendant if they fired on a power plant. If so, put them away for life, if that is the best that can be done.

same ICC who have killed Milosevic,have never checked crimes done by UCK but cared only about serbian "atrocities"?

it looks like ICC is turning blind eye on people of east UA killed by Porshenko and Zelensky during their ATO shelling,turning blind eyes on killed people in house of union in Odessa etc...its not a first time.

its called a double standard and this is exact example of it.

btw how "heroi" are doing today?

finally won over all time drunk Russians with shovels in hand?

Cards fan

Today 09:00 am JST

Actually no! Stalin and his right hand man were Georgian, something so many don't like mentioning.

> lol No. He was the leader of Russia. What absurd reasoning. Good grief.

No he wasn't.

Good Grief.

No your facts.

Stalin was the leader of the society union which included

Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic lead by Stanisław Kosior ethnic Polish and a reason OUN UPA massacred Poles.

Mikhail Kalinin was the leader of Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic at the time.

So again it was Stalin a Georgian and not Russia. It was the Soviet Union despite all the Ukrainian propaganda

If the ICC does not condemn too the crimes of the Ukrainian regime against the Russian ethnic group in Donbass for the last 8 years, this is no less a pathetic and idealistic anti-Russian effort of the decadent and worn-out US-NATO circus..

Quite simply, no international observers, thanks to Putin, means this is a canard that will be placed in the waste basket where it belongs.

Let's hope China can make great efforts to achieve peace negotiations, if it did it with Iran and Saudi Arabia, it can do it again, before the US and Europe get tired of squandering millions on weapons that the Ukrainian regime has not been able to use it well...

Going to be tough for China to be seen as a mediator if it starts sending weapons to a party. The West never said it was a mediator to counter your obvious response.

This is a war of attrition and believe me that Russia has much more capacity and resistance than the decadent west. Do not forget that Russia defeated Nazism in 1945 and they will do it again.

Going to be tough for Russia to defeat Nazism when it went full Nazi in about 2005.

Stalin was the leader of the society union which included

Don't change the terms now. You referred to the USSR as Russia previously in this thread. You know good and well what was meant. Russia/the USSR allied with Nazi germany, and you know that. They also massacred Polish people, too. Don't forget Katyn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre And no, Stalin being Georgia doesn't mean Russia/USSR didn't commit the same genocides you claim Ukraine did, although now you acknowledge now that Ukraine wasn't actually a sovereign, independent country at the time.

A few Questions:

If the ICC is so important, if it is so great to do trials, if it is fair.

Why This?

At present 123 nations have ratified the Rome Statute and are members of the ICC Assembly of States Parties. While the United States played a central role in the establishment of the Rome Statute that created the ICC, the United States is not a State Party.

it is such a great court set up by the USA but the USA will not be subject to it!!!!

How can people be so hypocritical by sitting around saying the ICC needs to be involved but not admit it was a puppet court set up by the USA that the USA will not even accept for itself.

Don't change the terms now. You referred to the USSR as Russia previously in this thread.

Me! You are trying to say the USSR and Russia are the same, sorry but that is so factually incorrect I don't even know why it has to be pointed out.

Ukraine condemns what the Soviet Union did, passes a law declaring everything the Soviet Union did as being illegal but then gives an exemption to that law saying that the Soviet Union's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was totally legal! talk about hypocrisy!

Ukrainians cooperated with NAZI Germany the OUN UPA with others including the Ukrainian police participated in massacres of pole lithuanians Jews Roma ukrainians Russians alongside the Germans, 

Babi Yar (Russian: Ба́бий Яр) or Babyn Yar (Ukrainian: Бабин Яр)

It was the Ukrainians that rounded up the Jews, 

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

Was conducted by UPA.

Ya know what? If I were a war crimes prosecutor, I would be placing that in the wastebasket as the people involved are DEAD. I would start with a leader ordering an illegal War of Aggression and annexing territory.

Where are the ICC trials over Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, etc...

As I will remind you as many times as necessary, the US last annexed territory in 1898. Russia last did so in 2023. Russia can't quite seem to grasp that it doesn't get to steal s%#@ under any circumstances.

Cards fan

Today 09:18 am JST

Your arguments on Ukraine sound like the Confederates supporters that said the civil war wasn't about slavery but state rights.

How can people be so hypocritical by sitting around saying the ICC needs to be involved but not admit it was a puppet court set up by the USA that the USA will not even accept for itself.

The US, much as you hate to acknowledge it, ain't the only one against you here. Maybe a better model should be the Nuremberg trials.

You are trying to say the USSR and Russia are the same, sorry but that is so factually incorrect I don't even know why it has to be pointed out.

Right, and you're trying to claim Ukraine is the same as Soviet Ukraine when they're not.

Ukraine condemns what the Soviet Union did, passes a law declaring everything the Soviet Union did as being illegal but then gives an exemption to that law saying that the Soviet Union's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was totally legal! talk about hypocrisy!

Right, you can agree with some things they did and disagree with other things they did. That's not hypocrisy.

Your arguments on Ukraine sound like the Confederates supporters that said the civil war wasn't about slavery but state rights.

lol How so?

One law for US and one law for the rest:

By Charlie Savage

March 8, 2023

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is blocking the Biden administration from sharing evidence with the International Criminal Court in The Hague gathered by American intelligence agencies about Russian atrocities in Ukraine, according to current and former officials briefed on the matter.

American military leaders oppose helping the court investigate Russians because they fear setting a precedent that might help pave the way for it to prosecute Americans. The rest of the administration, including intelligence agencies and the State and Justice Departments, favors giving the evidence to the court, the officials said. President Biden has yet to resolve the impasse, officials said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/us/politics/pentagon-war-crimes-hague.html

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:25 am JST

Let me remind you, war crimes are not linked only to annexing territory, they are about war crimes, the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, and it wasn't in 1898.

As for long dead.

It was in 2015 these criminals (yes long dead) were elevated to what amounts to national heroes status by Ukraine.

So on one hand Ukraine says it treats ethnic minorities fairly then makes it illegal to point out or even mention the ethnic cleansing these groups did towards these ethnic minorities.

It would be like Japan declaring it illegal to mention Nanjing or the rest but then saying it respects ethnic minorities.

Think about that!

One law for US and one law for the rest:

And one more for imperialist russia, because lord know tankies won't ever criticize the Russian invasion.

Let me remind you, war crimes are not linked only to annexing territory, they are about war crimes,

They should start with the ones annexing territory as that where the criminality all begins.

the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, and it wasn't in 1898.

Afghanistan 100% legal and Iraq's borders haven't changed. Thank you for playing.

It was in 2015 these criminals (yes long dead) were elevated to what amounts to national heroes status by Ukraine.

So on one hand Ukraine says it treats ethnic minorities fairly then makes it illegal to point out or even mention the ethnic cleansing these groups did towards these ethnic minorities.

It would be like Japan declaring it illegal to mention Nanjing or the rest but then saying it respects ethnic minorities.

Boy, it would be a shame if that matters f all to charges that need to be made today.

Today 09:27 am JST

How can people be so hypocritical by sitting around saying the ICC needs to be involved but not admit it was a puppet court set up by the USA that the USA will not even accept for itself.

> The US, much as you hate to acknowledge it, ain't the only one against you here. Maybe a better model should be the Nuremberg trials

Actually around 30 countries are supporting Ukraine and the sanctions less than 20% of the world population.

The rest are being held hostage by the USA and Europe.

But you still have addressed the elephant in the room:

Why is the ICC so important if the USA refuses to be subjected or signatory to it?

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:36 am JST

Let me remind you, war crimes are not linked only to annexing territory, they are about war crimes,

> They should start with the ones annexing territory as that where the criminality all begins.

Why because just going in and killing like in Iraq doesn't count?

the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, and it wasn't in 1898.

> Afghanistan 100% legal and Iraq's borders haven't changed. Thank you for playing.

Nice how you omitted Iraq?

Actually around 30 countries are supporting Ukraine and the sanctions less than 20% of the world population.

The rest are being held hostage by the USA and Europe.

No, the rest are being held hostage by their non-democratic governments. Something like 70% of Indians think Russia is in the wrong.

But you still have addressed the elephant in the room:

Why is the ICC so important if the USA refuses to be subjected or signatory to it?

I never said it was. Nuremberg is a better model as there are clear precedents and punishments established there that derive from Aggressive War (i.e. war for territory)

Why because just going in and killing like in Iraq doesn't count?

The US didn't brag about disabling power plants in winter (btw, we used munitions that didn't completely disable). Nor did we brag about abducting children or deny access by the Red Cross. Seems like the case should be easier against Russia.

Sad. Very very sad

More or less than the crimes the Russians invaders are committing in Ukraine?

The ICC runs the risk of losing any credibility it had left outside of the 50 countries of the Imperium if it fast tracks these pretty political charges while it endlessly delays charging the Israeli regime's war criminals who are abetting the Crime Against Humanity described in the ICSPCA. It would be a shame if cowardice and pandering destroys the idealism that lay behind the effort to create it, right when the human race needs a body like it to restrain those among the Imperium who are responding to the Imperium's decline from Master of the World to Formerly Great Power.

I'll take that as an agreement that Fascist Russia needs to be prosecuted as well. BTW, you don't look so strong when you loose to No. 40 on the military expenditure list.

Most here are intelligent enough not to believe Russian news, but are so ready to believe everything the USA UK and EU and their MSM tell them

I see.

What are the intelligent people reading or watching to know what’s really going on here?

I know I keep asking this but our Putin apologists have a very bad habit of not answering and I don’t see how we can discuss this without shared ‘facts’.

Be brave. Post a few links.

Nobody cares ICC at all, Russia is not Serbia!

the rest are being held hostage by their non-democratic governments.

LOL any country not agreeing with the West is non-democratic. If a country falls in line though it gets a free pass to trample upon all those human rights and democratic values that the West loves to preach about.

Something like 70% of Indians think Russia is in the wrong.

And where did you come up with this number? More than 70% Indians will not even be able to point out Ukraine on a map. But even more than that will be the number of Indians who favour maintaining ties with old friend Russia instead of becoming lackeys of the Western hypocrites.

War crimes cases to be pursued? Good!

LOL any country not agreeing with the West is non-democratic.

LOL I think it's pretty fair to say Russia is non-democratic.

If a country falls in line though it gets a free pass to trample upon all those human rights and democratic values that the West loves to preach about.

Ah so Russia gets a pass. Love that commitment to human rights and democracy.

@Cards fan

Let me explain again since you didn't quite get it.

The OP pointed out that most of the world which is either neutral or supports Russia does it because they are being held hostage by their own non-democratic governments, which is both a fallacy and a sweeping statement of the highest order. I have no idea how you extrapolated it to mean that it was being insinuated that Russia is a democracy.

Moreover, the West are no champions of democracy themselves considering the number of dictatorships that you have supported and armed over the years.

Cards fan

Today 10:20 am JST

Sad. Very very sad

> More or less than the crimes the Russians invaders are committing in Ukraine?

No very sad when you go on and on about war crimes trials, freedom democracy, but the main creator of the ICC the main supplier or war weapons in the world, the main country to invade others install dictators, the USA will not sign up to the ICC.

You go on and on about Russia but why is the USA so afraid to join the ICC? Why does the USA and Europe think Russia should be answerable to the ICC but not the USA.

So the ICC is only good if it doesn't apply to the USA, and you have no problem with that!

No very sad when you go on and on about war crimes trials, freedom democracy, but the main creator of the ICC the main supplier or war weapons in the world, the main country to invade others install dictators, the USA will not sign up to the ICC

What does any of that have to do with what Russia is doing in Ukraine? It's rather hypocritical to go on a rant about the US, and then turn a blind eye to what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

No very sad when you go on and on about war crimes trials, freedom democracy, but the main creator of the ICC the main supplier or war weapons in the world, the main country to invade others install dictators, the USA will not sign up to the ICC.

Hey LOOK at THAT everybody! Over there, away from Russian war crimes! Its....America!

Just keep looking at that America thing, far away from Russian war crimes.

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the article was the US even mentioned, so I really have no idea why anyone would bring it up. These folks couldn't care less about war crimes.

Cards fan

Today 03:17 pm JST

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the article was the US even mentioned, so I really have no idea why anyone would bring it up. These folks couldn't care less about war crimes

No by design, who created the ICC?

Who was the main force behind the Creation of the ICC but then decided it would not apply to itself? The USA so by simple default the USA is the ICC

So ignore the fact the ICC was created by the USA which is not subject to it? Is that both your views?

Just to be clear: you don't know what you are talking about. The United States did not create the ICC, nor was it at all involved in its creation. The ICC was created when the Rome Statute came into force, which the United States had nothing to do with and has never been a signatory to.

If you want to argue that the US should be a member, fine, though an article about Russian war crimes is hardly the place to do so and you should at least get your facts straight before making an argument.

the rest are being held hostage by their non-democratic governments. 

LOL any country not agreeing with the West is non-democratic. If a country falls in line though it gets a free pass to trample upon all those human rights and democratic values that the West loves to preach about.

https://rsf.org/en/country/india

Something like 70% of Indians think Russia is in the wrong.

And where did you come up with this number? More than 70% Indians will not even be able to point out Ukraine on a map. But even more than that will be the number of Indians who favour maintaining ties with old friend Russia instead of becoming lackeys of the Western hypocrites.

https://egfound.org/2022/06/modeling-democracy-democracys-promise/

70% agree that the US has responded to the war in Ukraine well. Facts are stubborn things my friend.

No very sad when you go on and on about war crimes trials, freedom democracy, but the main creator of the ICC the main supplier or war weapons in the world, the main country to invade others install dictators, the USA will not sign up to the ICC.

You go on and on about Russia but why is the USA so afraid to join the ICC? Why does the USA and Europe think Russia should be answerable to the ICC but not the USA.

So the ICC is only good if it doesn't apply to the USA, and you have no problem with that!

Nothing in there about how Russia isn't a happy warcriming nation. You're really having trouble with this defense.

The OP pointed out that most of the world which is either neutral or supports Russia does it because they are being held hostage by their own non-democratic governments, which is both a fallacy and a sweeping statement of the highest order.

You have shown zero evidence to the contrary sweeping statement I was responding to that only 20% of the world supports Ukraine. The 1.4 billion in China are most certainly being held captive by their non-democratic government.