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Iceland kills first fin whales in controversial hunt

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Interesting. Another nation is busted for hunting whales, and nobody on this site says a word. The Japanese do the same and the whole site gets agitated. Double standards?

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

The story has only just been put on the site a few minutes ago. You have to give readers time to post.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The whaling company has a quota to hunt and kill about 185 Fin whales, and have already killed one and dragged it back to port. The Fin whale remains a listed endangered species. There are only about 60,000 remaining in the all the oceans. The Japanese too try and hunt for Fin whale in the Southern Oceans but didn't catch one this year because there are so few down there. The Icelanic whalers have to leave Its own waters to hunt and catch the Fin whales whose meat is destined entirely to be exported to Japan. Iceland continues to defy world opinion on hunting the Fin whale.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

The Japanese do the same and the whole site gets agitated. Double standards?

Maybe there's more agitation over on the Iceland Today site where for a start the time difference means more people are awake and staring at their computer screens, and where more people are concerned about what happens in Iceland.

A third whale was also being hunted on Wednesday means one specific terrified whale is being chased around the ocean until it's exhausted and easier to shoot? Like the pro-whalers like to tell us doesn't happen? I hope the whaling ships Hvalur 8 and Hvalur 9 develop engine trouble forcing them to return to port, and that the company Hvalur goes bankrupt. (The Japanese whaling industry is already bankrupt, only our tax yen keep it going).

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Never ever trust these low down Icelanders! NEVER! Boycott everything from that corrupt, 3rd world whale killing country NOW!! Geez! Now I feel a whole lot better! Thanks JT!

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

All the major food companies in Britain which supply fish to the public and to all those fish and chip shops no longer buy from any company which also carries out whaling. These companies will make less money from whaling than from fishing.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

I have to agree it's unnecessary but where is Watson and SS now? The silence sounds a little like bigotry against the Japanese.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Wheer are the anti-whalers and their speedboat now? i like how Iceland even calls its whale hunting "commercial"

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Stupid Greepeace! Easy to go after Japanese whalers, now get going after these low down whale baby killers in Iceland!! Let us all protect the pretty innocent baby whales!! DOWN WITH ICELAND!!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

"This season’s quota for fin whales is set at 154 whales, with the possible addition of some 20 percent from last year that were never hunted."

174 Whales, and next year another quota, who's gonna eat all that meat? It sounds ridiculous...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I hope the whaling ships Hvalur 8 and Hvalur 9 develop engine trouble forcing them to return to port

Yeah, because the saver of whales, Sea Shepherd is nowhere to be seen and does nothing because they know the Icelanders aren't as nice as the Japanese and would board their ships and kick their arses.

8 ( +18 / -10 )

Geez, now they will say serve us their usual rhetoric "look others are doing the same , so why is it bad ?"

0 ( +8 / -8 )

zichi,

There are only about 60,000 remaining in the all the oceans.

60,000 large fin whales is very big number. Of them, there are 20,000 in oceans around Iceland. Such number is similar to historical number around Iceland.

Iceland would catch less than 1% of them each year.

There is no problem with it.

The Japanese too try and hunt for Fin whale in the Southern Oceans but didn't catch one this year because there are so few down there.

Make-believe.

The Icelanic whalers have to leave Its own waters to hunt and catch the Fin whales

Make-believe. Iceland catches whales in Iceland's waters.

whose meat is destined entirely to be exported to Japan.

What is wrong with international trade? It is beneficial to people of Iceland and Japan, and less than 1% of Iceland's fin whales is sustainable number.

Iceland continues to defy world opinion on hunting the Fin whale.

Make-believe.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Ihope2eatwhales The Fin whale remained a listed endangered species. No make believe. Icelandic whalers leave their open waters and hunt the Fin whale in international waters. 60,000 is a not a large number for this species, that's why its listed. The Japanese didn't catch a single Fin whale this year. World opinion is all endangered species should not be hunted and killed.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Some people just don't get it. The Fin whale is a listed endangered species.

But on the point of whale consumption, the population of Iceland can't eat the whales they kill so the Fin whales are exported to Japan where demand for whale flesh is in strong decline Down to about 4,000 tons from about 6,000 tons a couple of years ago. Guess that why we had the recent fiasco over the Fin whale meat being used in posh doggie treats?

BTW, 4,000 tons of whale meat would work out at less than 50 grams per year per adult.

So much public funds spent for so little.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

World opinion is all endangered species should not be hunted and killed.

Indeed and those acting in that direction should NOT be sorry for trying to take care of the "ecosystem" on this planet. Personally I had like my next-next-next-next children to know what is a real "whale" and not read it from an history book become some are just thinking with their stomach today or let be more realistic ... are simply lurking for tax money compensation. As usual, "money" is the common denominator of all those problems, I hope mankind will one day get over that stupid and selfish concept of "money" so we can finally start our real evolution.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Maybe some of these culture imperialists know something the IWC Scientific Committee doesn´t. Namely how if Iceland hunts 1% of the population that would pose a threat to the overall population. If IWC Scientific Committee agrees that fin whales can be hunted sustainably according to RMP why is it that culture imperialists have a hard time understanding marine management based on science?

Culture imperialists are confusing ‘sustainable use’ with ‘no use’. If sustainable use is the goal, culture imperialists would ban all utilisation of renewable resources also on land. Speaking of the global environment. Hunting whales is far more environmental friendly as the energy is low in relation to yield and the natural habitat does not have to be turned into agricultural land.

Furthermore, the country which is about to drive a whale species to extinction is Canada and USA. Not Iceland or Japan. USA is driving the Right Whale to extinction because they are hit by huge tankers. Also, the countries which hunt the most endangered whales are USA and Canada. The bowhead whales. Hitting the right whale is not sustainable unlike the Icelandic hunt.

If these people want to save the whales because they think of them as cute and divine why are they not focusing on whales which really needs to be saved? Where is Watson saving the RIght Whale? WHy is he focusing on Japan hunting whales sustainably?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

For all the whiners out there claiming hypocrisy, rest assured each and every poster who is against Japan's whaling programme is against what Finland and Iceland do as well. There ARE, two distinct differences between what the latter two nations do and what Japan does: 1) they do not lie about it being for science, 2) they do it in their own waters. Doesn't excuse them doing what they do in any way, but you have to admit the differences at least.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Hey Paul Watson! Where are ya?

4 ( +10 / -6 )

For all the whiners out there claiming hypocrisy, rest assured each and every poster who is against Japan's whaling programme is against what Finland and Iceland do as well. There ARE, two distinct differences between what the latter two nations do and what Japan does: 1) they do not lie about it being for science, 2) they do it in their own waters. Doesn't excuse them doing what they do in any way, but you have to admit the differences at least.

Well... Iceland left the IWC in 1992, so it doesn't have to give any reasons for whaling. It has commercial and scientific whaling programs. The government sets the quotas.

Japan should do the same and leave the IWC. At least the would shut the "research whaling?!?! LOL" crowd up.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

Paul Watson and the Sea Shepard Society and Greenpeace don't bother with Iceland or Norway. They reserve their hatred for Japan.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

When a creature is listed on the endangered species what means not hunting and killing a single creature, its very simple but Iceland defies world opinion on this point.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

zichi,

The Fin whale is a listed endangered species.

There are 20,000 whales in North Atlantic. Anti-whalers say it is "endangered", but 20,000 whales in North Atlantic is not the endangered one. It is the one which can be hunted sustainably, for economic development of Iceland.

But on the point of whale consumption, the population of Iceland can't eat the whales they kill so the Fin whales are exported to Japan

It is important point for you to understand.

where demand for whale flesh is in strong decline

Make-believe.

Down to about 4,000 tons from about 6,000 tons a couple of years ago.

Such decline would mean strong demand, or weak supply. Important point is commercial whalers of Iceland see economic benefit by exporting whale for sale to Japan. It shows there is a demand, although you deny it.

BTW, 4,000 tons of whale meat would work out at less than 50 grams per year per adult.

Thank you. It shows how tight supply of whale in Japan is, against what anti-whalers claim.

So much public funds spent for so little.

Iceland's commercial whaling is not public funds. It is commercial activity, in response to the demand.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@Ihope2eatwhales

The fin whale is listed on both Appendix I[119] and Appendix II[119] of the Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild Animals (CMS). It is listed on Appendix I[119] as this species has been categorized as in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant proportion of its range and CMS Parties strive towards strictly protecting these animals, conserving or restoring the places where they live, mitigating obstacles to migration and controlling other factors that might endanger them.

It is listed on Appendix II[119] as it has an unfavourable conservation status or would benefit significantly from international co-operation organised by tailored agreements. In addition, the fin whale is covered by the Agreement on the Conservation of Cetaceans in the Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea and Contiguous Atlantic Area (ACCOBAMS) and the Memorandum of Understanding for the Conservation of Cetaceans and Their Habitats in the Pacific Islands Region (Pacific Cetaceans MOU).[120]

Fin whales are protected under both the Endangered Species Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Ultrdarkmelvin, It's hardly cultural imperialism when icelands own tourist association reins criticism on Hvalur. Iceland has had huge pressure applied to it, including threatened trade sanctions. To infer this is a racist issue is a red herring (geddit?) designed to play upon westerners sensitivities to its imperialist past.

The fact is that whaling is protested globally, not just by white Anglo-Saxons, because its a cruel practice, that brought the populations of these creatures to near collapse. It's simply ridiculous to treat any creature to this much fear and pain so some dogs and few selfish people can get their expensive treats.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Where in the hell is sea shepard? From this standpoint alone it's a double standard. The world has known for years that both Japan and Iceland continue to hunt whales but SS only goes after the Japanese?

Or did they go after these guys too and it not get reported?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

750,000 Fin whales have been hunted and killed, almost to the point of extinction. It takes between 25 to 30 years for a Fin whale to reach full physical maturity and will live to around 90 years.

All Fin whale populations worldwide remain listed as endangered species by the US National Marine Fisheries Service and the International Conservation Union Red List. The fin whale is on Appendix 1 of CITES.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

All Fin whale populations worldwide remain listed as endangered species by the US National Marine Fisheries Service and the International Conservation Union Red List.

Actually, factually incorrect. THe IUCN European regional assessment classifies them as Near threatened

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/1

Justification: European regional assessment: Near Threatened (approaching A1d). The population and range are large enough that Criteria B and D do not apply. Does not meet Criterion C (even at Near Threatened) because although the number of mature individuals is fairly low, there is no evidence of continuing decline. Generally in the North Atlantic populations are either stable or increasing, or there is no quantitative data.

The Fin whales being hunted by Iceland are not classified as endangered by the IUCN regionally

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

zichi,

Fin whales are protected under both the Endangered Species Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

US may decide the law for it's people.

As for Iceland, it is 100% legal for Iceland's commercial whalers to catch these whales, which are not endangered in Iceland's waters.

It takes between 25 to 30 years for a Fin whale to reach full physical maturity and will live to around 90 years.

Less than 1% a year is sustainable.

SwissToni,

its a cruel practice, that brought the populations of these creatures to near collapse.

Some people who think it is cruel have their opinion, however, Iceland should not pay for unsustainable whaling of centuries past by the other nations.

Iceland's sustainable whaling is model whaling for the rest of the world.

It's simply ridiculous to treat any creature to this much fear and pain so some dogs and few selfish people can get their expensive treats.

So do not catch any whales yourself, then, if you think it is ridiculous.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

This is just as disgusting as the Japanese whale hunts... why aren't Sea Shepherd up here in the Northern Hemisphere doing their job?

ihope2eatwhales - I don't know if you are trying to incite arguments or are just insensitive, but how can you just brush off the fact that intelligent mammals are being murdered for the sake of a few people. Do you not acknowledge the fact that whales as intelligent life forms deserve to be left alone, or do you just not care? Do you even accept that they are sentient?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

At least they are honest enough not to call it "research".

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Would the Japanese, the purveyors of this Fin whale meat, be happy if I started killing cranes for a tasty roast, I would only take half a dozen a season. No, I don't think they would be happy and also the crane is another listed endangered species.

Every Fin whale killed takes more than 30 years to replace.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Thunderbird2,

I do not accept to be said such a thing by an anti-whaler. It is always anti-whalers who incite arguments and are insensitive.

Do you not acknowledge the fact that whales as intelligent life forms deserve to be left alone

I don't acknowledge it.

Do you even accept that they are sentient?

Many animals that are eaten in Japan and abroad are sentient, of course I accept it.

Do you not acknowledge the fact that people of different cultures each different type of food? Do you even accept that whale eaters deserve same tolerance as eaters of other animals?

zichi,

Every Fin whale killed takes more than 30 years to replace.

New fin whales are born each year. The number is enough to replace those caught by sustainable whaling operation by Iceland.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Ok........ All countries Should Stop Whaling ,......... Is it not time to stop pretending people Love Whale meat....... It Main use Is Pet food , Perfumes , Oils and Fertiliser. All of these can be sourced in other ways. Just leave These Magnificent Mammals alone please.

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival.

Iceland, Japan and Norway are member countries. No periodic review of any great whale, including the fin whale, should occur while the moratorium by the International Whaling Commission is in place.

Fin whales are classified as endangered species by the CITES treaty. They are an ‘Appendix I species’ in CITES, meaning that they are “threatened with extinction” and international trade in their products is illegal.

The CITES agreement bans exports and imports of products derived from those whale species which it recognises as endangered.

Iceland wants to join the EU but won't be able to do so while it hunts and kills Fin whales.

The Fin whale meat exported from Iceland to Japan usually goes through Rotterdam Port but the Dutch are moving to stop any whale meat from entering any of her ports. Iceland will have to find new routes.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Do you not acknowledge the fact that people of different cultures each different type of food? Do you even accept that whale eaters deserve same tolerance as eaters of other animals?

Whales aren't just another animal... why can't pro-whalers see that?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Other animals are not relevant to this discussion.

@ zichi

Fin whales are classified as endangered species by the CITES treaty. They are an ‘Appendix I species’ in CITES, meaning that they are “threatened with extinction” and international trade in their products is illegal.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/1

The Fin whale classification regionally ( where they are being hunted classifies them as being near threatened and not endangered.

European regional assessment: Near Threatened (approaching A1d). The population and range are large enough that Criteria B and D do not apply. Does not meet Criterion C (even at Near Threatened) because although the number of mature individuals is fairly low, there is no evidence of continuing decline. Generally in the North Atlantic populations are either stable or increasing, or there is no quantitative data

The trade is legal because Japan and Iceland have registered exemptions to rules banning international trade in Fin whale products.

Nothing illegal in the slightest about it - those are the rules

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Do you even accept that whale eaters deserve same tolerance as eaters of other animals?

Eat as many as you like, just don't torture them to death. Whales occasionally get washed up on beaches and cannot be saved. Eat those.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Thunderbird2.

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

Who has more legal power CITES or the IWC.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Okay, United States, why no threat of sanctions for Japan?? I sense favoritism here.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

its apparent that common sense and civilities cannot be understood by japan or iceland, very real sanctions need to be in place so as to inconvenience them enough to make them stick out like a painful wart

if they're looked upon universally as pariahs, soon enough they'll comply

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@ Cramp

its apparent that common sense and civilities cannot be understood by japan or iceland, very real sanctions need to be in place so as to inconvenience them enough to make them stick out like a painful wart if they're looked upon universally as pariahs, soon enough they'll comply

Whaling Countries

Iceland, Japan, Norway, Russia, USA, Greenland, Indonesia, St Vincent and Grenadines, Canada, etc etc etc

Do you suggest sanctioning them all and making those pariahs as well? If you want to be consistant - you`ll need to

2 ( +6 / -5 )

Iceland quit the IWC in 1992 due to the moratorium on whaling, but was allowed to rejoin in 2002 with a "reservation" to the moratorium, which meant that the IWC recognized that Iceland could hunt whales. Japan on the other hand, withdrew it's objection to the moratorium after it was threatened with reduced fishing quotas in US waters. However, just two years later in 1988, Japan's quotas in US waters were reduced to zero anyway. It was after this which Japan started scientific whaling. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6659401.stm, "Did Greens help to kill the whale?" 1997-5-16).

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Thunderbirds, whales are a type of animal. They are not aliens.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Cleo

Whales occasionally get washed up on beaches and cannot be saved. Eat those.

No thanks. I've seen some and they definitely don't look appetizing. Besides, I'm sure their husbands would object... ; )

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Why do the likes of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd only operate in the Pacific? Are there no anti-whaling vessels in the North Atlantic? We need someone up here to get between the whales and the harpoons... very depressing.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

its very simple but Iceland defies world opinion on this point.

And where is the Sea Shepard?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Where's SeaShepherd? .....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

crampJun. 20, 2013 - 06:56PM JST

its apparent that common sense and civilities cannot be understood by japan or iceland, very real sanctions need to be in place so as to inconvenience them enough to make them stick out like a painful wart

if they're looked upon universally as pariahs, soon enough they'll comply"

Don't know about Iceland, but surely you must perceive that Japan is already universally regarded as a "pariah" by many people, especially by the nations of China, South and North Korea, and a great number of ignorant Westerners. It doesn't matter if the reason is whaling, nuclear power, "Abenomics" or old grievances over historical issues, or something else. If it wasn't any of those things they would invent something else. Some people were born to hate, and they seem to get some kind of vicarious thrill from Japan-bashing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Fin whales are the second largest animal on earth after the blue whale and are listed on the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) red list of threatened species. http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/0

New EIA undercover investigations have revealed for the first time the identity of the Japanese importing company as Misaka Shoji (Misaka Trading). Japan's scientific whaling company Kyodo Senpaku is also confirmed as being involved in distributing Icelandic fin whale products, a key concern given its dominance within Japan's whale meat market and effective control of an extensive distribution network. http://www.wdcs.org/stop/killing_trade/trade_report.php

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@ Zichi

Once again, Fin whales in the Northern hemisphere are not endangered

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/1

The Fin whale classification regionally ( where they are being hunted incidentally classifies them as being near threatened and not endangered.)

As for the rest, it`s legal trade under CITES

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Iceland can't claim the Fin whales belong to them. The hunting and killing is taking place 150-200 nautical miles off Iceland's west coast which is well beyond the normal 12 mile limit. Fin whales are highly migratory and move over vast distance.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@ zichi

Icelands EEZ ( Exclusive Economic zone ) extends 200NM from their coastline - they can hunt whatever they want within their EEZ. Iceland is harvesting the Fin whales in their EEZ - as they do with Mackrel ( which migrate in and out of their EEZ as well as Atlanto scandic Herring ) As long as they are within their international agreements and whaling license, they can take the full Quota if they feel it makes economic sense.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

In 1972, Iceland unilaterally declared an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

750,000 Fin whales have been killed, is that already not enough?

Fin whale migration patterns http://www.awf-volunteeringabroad.org/images/projects/bigwhaleproject/finwhalemap.jpg

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@ zichi

In 1972, Iceland unilaterally declared an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

Yes? so did large swathes of the rest of the world - your point being?

Fin whale migration patterns

and? if they are in Icelands EEZ they can be taken.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

We have agreed that the use of renewable natural resources is acceptable, provided rates of usage are within the resources’ capacity for renewal. Yet the cultural imperialists would have whales exempted from the sustainable use principle - an exemption that would, quite simply, place them above and apart from the animal kingdom to which they obviously belong.

Intolerant culture imperialists can worship their sacred cow as much as they want. They can put up posters of them in their rooms. But don't shove their religion onto other cultures.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The post is about the hunting and killing of Fin whales.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Thunderbirds, if it depresses you that Sea Shepherd does not commit piracy against Iceland's whalers, I do not think it helps you to write anti-whaling comments on Japan Today.

zichi, Iceland does not claim ownership of fin whales. They are free animals swimming in ocean, and they hunt some, by rules of sustainable whaling. You post many anti-whaling propaganda points, but I do not think you have a logical reason to oppose Iceland's sustainable whaling, and import of it by Japanese interests. It has nothing to do with you.

750,000 Fin whales have been killed, is that already not enough?

Sustainable whaling is whaling forever. Infinite whales can be taken, no problem. 750,000 whales killed in past was problem, because western nations took too many at once for industrial purpose. They should have learned sustainable whaling from whale eaters first.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The hunting and killing of nearly 200 endangered Fin whales by the millionaire Icelandic whaler Kristján Loftsson has nothing to do with "culture" which is just a smoke screen thrown up by the pro whaling types.

Its not like some historical time, when all the men of a fishing village put to the seas in open boats with hand harpoons to hunt and kill a single whale. Bring it back to the village, cut it up and share it with all the families of the village.

Nothing even like that. The Fin whale hunt by Loftsson is purely about making him a richer man. There isn't even much of a domestic market for his Fin whale meat, since most of it will be exported to Japan.

Following the 3/11 disasters in Japan, he didn't go hunting for Fin whales because the Japanese market collapsed. Instead he used it to peg the wages of his workers who were demanding pay increases.

Now he feels there's enough of a Japanese market again to resume his Fin whale hunting. Nothing to do with culture nor with Icelandic people needing to hunt and kill Fin whales to survive, like in those historical fishing villages.

The bottom line, its about Kristján Loftsson becoming a richer man. "Culture" my arse!

1 ( +6 / -4 )

The bottom line, its about Kristján Loftsson becoming a richer man. "Culture" my arse!

People eat whale meat just as you eat cows. People look at whales as food. It is a part of the culinary culture to eat whale meat.

In a world where trade has become dependent on the exchange of money, there are also commercial aspects to whalers’ lives. In Greenland, Japan and Norway whale meat is sold in supermarkets, in Alaska baleen handicrafts from bowheads are sold to tourists. Until such time as electronics stores accept sides of whale bacon as currency, whalers will have to acquire their televisions the same way as the rest of us - with cash.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Since 2001, S.Korea captured ''accidentally'' 4700 of whales till this year. I heard no S.S. story with them either. I am sure they are not as nice as Japan how Japan put up with their non-sense.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Until such time as electronics stores accept sides of whale bacon as currency, whalers will have to acquire their televisions the same way as the rest of us - with cash.

Kristján Loftsson does not pay his workers enough that they could afford to even think about buying TV's. They demanded cost of living increase, but Loftsson refused their demands which cost them two years of work.

1 ( +5 / -3 )

zichi,

Whaling in Iceland help to employ Icelanders, and also help to satisfy demands in Japan. Well done to Iceland whalers. Icelanders are part of international trade. I am happy to pay for their whale meat, so they may enjoy nicer life in their homes in Iceland. We are both happy for it, I am sure. It is culture in Japan to eat whale meat, and fin whale is popular. Iceland's whalers are very welcome to become richer by providing service. It is the sustainable economic development.

I think you do not have a point. You just show that you are anti-whaling. What is the point of it? Who do you write it for? Only yourself, I think.

-4 ( +2 / -7 )

Kristján Loftsson does not pay his workers enough that they could afford to even think about buying TV's. They demanded cost of living increase, but Loftsson refused their demands which cost them two years of work.

You should move to Iceland and start a union. I think you'll have better luck with that than trying to convince Icelanders to give up whale meat.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

You should move to Iceland and start a union. I think you'll have better luck with that than trying to convince Icelanders to give up whale meat.

Actually, his workers already belong to a union but failed in their demand for cost of living increasing. Who's asking Icelanders to give up whale meat. This post is about the hunting and killing of the Fin whale which is being exported to Japan.

3 ( +8 / -4 )

zichi

In 1972, Iceland unilaterally declared an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

So all Iceland should do is just unilaterally expand their EEZ several fold and name it the Icelandic Arctic Territory so they'd be free to do as they please there, you know like the (similarly unilaterally claimed and internationally unrecognized) Australian Antarctic Territory which you and other anti-whalers continue to invoke as a basis for your accusations that the Japanese research whaling in the Southern Ocean is in violation of sovereign Australian territory and therefore "illegal".

-2 ( +4 / -7 )

@USNinJapan2

which you and other anti-whalers continue to invoke as a basis for your accusations that the Japanese research whaling in the Southern Ocean is in violation of sovereign Australian territory and therefore "illegal".

I have never stated that in a single comment on any JT post???

1 ( +7 / -5 )

This post is about the hunting and killing of the Fin whale which is being exported to Japan.

Precisely, so what has the workers comments got to do with the sunject? Nothing,

The bottom line, its about Kristján Loftsson becoming a richer man.

By hunting up to 185 Non endangered Northern Fin whales in Iceland´s own territorial waters legally

Do try and keep on subject please.

-1 ( +5 / -7 )

@ihopetoeatwhales

Kristján Loftsson, owner of the whaling company Hvalur (Icelandic for Whale) is the only whaling company still operating from Iceland which hunts and kills the Fin whale.

I guess the worker structure in Iceland is much the same as in most countries. The rich owner is at the top of the food chain and the poor workers at the bottom. The only person getting rich from hunting and killing Fin whales is Kristján Loftsson, whose father founded the company in 1948.

He misses out and his workers too, the rest of the year because Britain and other EU countries will no longer buy fish from a company which is also whaling.

I have been against whaling for more than 50 years, and see no reason to change course now. Probably longer than you have been alive. Before Greenpeace (1971), Friends of the Earth (1969), Save the Whales (1970), Sea Shepherd (1977). No I've been against whaling for a very long time. I suppose I should change my name to idonthavetoeatwhales?

2 ( +8 / -5 )

Ihope2eatwhales, "Iceland's sustainable whaling is model whaling for the rest of the world".

That's your opinion. Even Icelands own people dont believe that. Hvalur exports the vast majority of its catch to Japan....for dog treats.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

zichi,

Iceland whalers who have jobs are all thankful. They are not slaves. Iceland had big financial crisis. Whaling is one of the good opportunities for them now, it is sustainable economic development. This can not be denied, only by the anti-whaler who is dishonest.

I suppose I should change my name to idonthavetoeatwhales?

I would change my name to youdonthave2eatwhales-butwewill And I need not get permission from arrogance intolerant anti-whalers to do it.

-4 ( +5 / -10 )

ihope2eatwhales

you might be surprised to discover that not all Icelandic people support the hunting and killing of Fin whales. You don't know if anyone is thankful for having a job unless you yourself are an Icelandic and living and working in Iceland so please don't try and speak for others. The workers of Kristján Loftsson didn't get their cost of living pay increases, so you think that would make them happy?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

zichi,

you might be surprised to discover that not all Icelandic people support the hunting and killing of Fin whales.

There are some anti-whalers even in Japan, no surprise.

You don't know if anyone is thankful for having a job unless you yourself are an Icelandic and living and working in Iceland

They just quit if they are unhappy. Then no whale meat would be supplied.

The workers of Kristján Loftsson didn't get their cost of living pay increases, so you think that would make them happy?

It is off-topic. But I know nothing of such details, but I do know not to trust anything anti-whalers say.

-1 ( +5 / -7 )

@ihopetoeatwhales

Only 5% of Icelanders, about 14,000 adults regularly eat whale, which compares with about 12% in Japan. Actually, in Iceland more tourists eat whale meat than Icelanders under the mistaken believe that eating whale is some kind of national dish.

-1 ( +6 / -6 )

@ zichi

I have been against whaling for more than 50 years, and see no reason to change course now. Probably longer than you have been alive. Before Greenpeace (1971), Friends of the Earth (1969), Save the Whales (1970), Sea Shepherd (1977). No I've been against whaling for a very long time.

Must be rather dissapointing then to realise that being against whaling all those years has been for nothing as it`s still going on. My sympathies..

Meanwhile, Iceland`s taken another couple of fins, so it seems like they are on schedule for taking a fair part of their quota.

0 ( +5 / -6 )

@eyeonwatson

Must be rather dissapointing then to realise that being against whaling all those years has been for nothing as it`s still going on. My sympathies..

Well, thank you for your concerns but no I am not disappointed. There was a time when Japan killed 45,000 whales in a single season. This year the hunt in the Southern Oceans and the Northern Oceans killed less than 200 whales, their lowest in over 15 years,

1 ( +6 / -5 )

All the better for Iceland and Norways commercial hunts to export to Japan then. Norways on track to take around 5-600 minkies this season and of course, Iceland have a max quota of 185 fins.

1 ( +6 / -6 )

@ihopetoeatwhales

If you don't believe anything anti whaling folks say, then I guess I would be wasting my time informing you how toxic whales have become. Dolphins too. Methyl mercury has been found in whale meat on sale in Japan, 10-12 times more than the level recommended by the Health Ministry. The livers are too be avoided at all times.

It shouldn't be eaten by pregnant women and young children. Currently, the WHO does not have any guidelines regarding the consumption of whale meat, but its website does list mercury as one of the top 10 chemicals of major public health concern.

Still, I believe the whale meat on sale in Norway is even more toxic than that sold in Japan.

While I, like millions of others pay taxes, which is also used to give massive subsidies to the whaling industry then I feel that I have a right to object how those taxes are misspent.

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

zichi,

If you don't believe anything anti whaling folks say, then I guess I would be wasting my time informing you how toxic whales have become.

Yes, you would waste your time, as I am not gullible fool, thank you.

The livers are too be avoided at all times. It shouldn't be eaten by pregnant women and young children.

I do not eat liver, am not pregnant, and am not a child, either. Thank you.

Currently, the WHO does not have any guidelines regarding the consumption of whale meat

It's a relief. WHO is not a crazy anti-whaling organization, I suppose.

While I, like millions of others pay taxes, which is also used to give massive subsidies to the whaling industry then I feel that I have a right to object how those taxes are misspent.

It is more off-topic anti-whaler's propaganda. Iceland is conducting the commercial whaling. You pay nothing, only I.

-1 ( +5 / -7 )

@ zichi

Still, I believe the whale meat on sale in Norway is even more toxic than that sold in Japan.

Absolute scare mongering rubbish - the minke meat in Norway is regularly tested by the Mattilsynet & NIFES. Mercury concentrations are below recommended limits.

Even a Greenpeace independant study a few years back showed the same.

I really suggest you do some research on the subject

http://www.mattilsynet.no/

http://www.nifes.no

While I, like millions of others pay taxes, which is also used to give massive subsidies to the whaling industry then I feel that I have a right to object how those taxes are misspent.

Then you should be happy that Iceland is exporting to Japan as it`s a purely commercial operation without your taxes paying for any of it.

.

0 ( +5 / -6 )

@Elbuda, Greenpeace are a peaceful group but they have people in Iceland filming the Fin whale hunt and have posted videos on YouTube. Greenpeace won't take any kind of direct action to prevent the Fin whale hunt.

1 ( +5 / -3 )

The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction which is reflected the retail price of the whale meat sold on the Japanese market. That equally applies to the whale meat caught and sold by the Japanese. To keep the prices as low as possible and try and maintain some kind of market demand, the prices of whale meat are subsidized by the taxpayers living in the country.

Compared with Icelander whale meat, I think so far, so a small amount of whale meat from Norway has happened about 80 tons. Japan remains concerned about the level of toxicity in whales caught by Norway.

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

@ Zichi

Greenpeace won't take any kind of direct action to prevent the Fin whale hunt.

The reason being they decided that direct actions in the North were counterproductive ( coincidentally enough, just after they had boats confisticated and sold and were fined a six figure sum )

Didn`stop them from continuing actions in the South though, I also had to laugh at that one - if anti whaling actions in the North were counterproductive, then what made them think that actions at the other end of the planet would be productive?

0 ( +4 / -5 )

Truth: To keep the prices as low as possible and try and maintain some kind of market demand, the prices of whale meat are subsidized by the taxpayers living in the country.

vs. Lie: You should be honest. It is not tax payer operation, as you claim. It is commercial operation.

It's sad when the debate becomes this obvious.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@ zichi

Japan remains concerned about the level of toxicity in whales caught by Norway.

Please back up that statement with facts ( links ) There was concern about toxicity levels in Blubber as far back as 2001 & concern about Dioxin levels in 2004. You state though that Mercury levels are higher than 10-12 times the allowable limit and then state that Norways whale meat is even more toxic, thus insinuating that the Mercury levels are even higher in Norwegian Whale meat. Which is, of course, verifiable as being a load of old rubbish - instead of making wild claims, back up your statements with verifiable studies please.

0 ( +4 / -5 )

@ Zichi

The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction which is reflected the retail price of the whale meat sold on the Japanese market.

Business 101 - when you have a monopoly, you can pretty much charge what you like. When a second player comes into the market, they`ll undercut the monopoly = sell cheaper.

This isnt rocket science - its simple business ...

0 ( +4 / -5 )

smithinjapanJun. 20, 2013 - 12:47PM JST For all the whiners out there claiming hypocrisy, rest assured each and every poster who is against Japan's whaling >programme is against what Finland and Iceland do as well.

Finland?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Tests have revealed that in whale meat sold in the Faroe Islands and Japan, high levels of mercury and other toxins are present. A research study was conducted by Tetsuya Endo, Koichi Haraguchi and Masakatsu Sakata at the University of Hokkaido found high levels of mercury in the organs of whales, particularly the liver. They stated that "Acute intoxication could result from a single ingestion" of liver. The study found that liver samples for sale in Japan contained, on average, 370 micrograms of mercury per gram of meat, 900 times the government's limit. Levels detected in kidneys and lungs were approximately 100 times higher than the limit.

The recent revelation of extremely high levels of contaminants such as mercury, cadmium and PCBs in dolphin meat has led some Japanese officials, concerned for the health of the citizenry, to an examination of the policy of eating cetaceans.

Taiji, Japan City Councilman Junichiro Yamashita learned of the high levels of mercury in the meat provided to the schools and had samples tested. The results led him to call dolphin meat served in local schools “toxic waste” because of the high mercury levels. Mr. Yamashita has led a successful fight to end the practice of giving meat from locally caught dolphins to schoolchildren.

A recent analysis of whale meat samples purchased in Norwegian and Japanese markets turned up dangerous levels of PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), including some chemicals that act as estrogen immitators, elevating estrogen levels in women, "feminizing" men and lowering sperm counts.

A recent attempt to revive the Norwegian whale trade industry in 2008 suffered a setback. The Japanese government rejected company Myklebust Trading’s entire five-ton shipment of the Minke whale meat due to alleged contamination.

-2 ( +3 / -4 )

@ zichi

As I pointed out earlier the high mercury levels may be in Dolphin meat - not whale meat.

Incidentally you need to name your source so that readers can judge for themselves the likley validity of the source )

A recent attempt to revive the Norwegian whale trade industry in 2008 suffered a setback. The Japanese government rejected company Myklebust Trading’s entire five-ton shipment of the Minke whale meat due to alleged contamination.

Bacterial contamination

Although a shipment of 5 tons of whale meat was exported to Japan in 2008, and cleared for sale in February of 2009, the meat was not sold due to bacterial contamination and high lactic acid levels.( source wdcs.org )

Myklebust Trading shipped another 14 tons this year

1 ( +4 / -4 )

Thanks Zichi, but now Norway is doing this too?? Poor whales!!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Still horrified to find Icelandic whale meat for sale in my local Tokyo grocery store. Grimly ironic, as Japan whalers can't even sell what they catch, witness the icelockers full of the flesh from formerly living whales. When will this end and the whales be left alone?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Our people were the first to inhabit Iceland, back in the 9th and 10th century, so I suppose I might share some of the same blood stock with some Icelanders.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ smithinjapan

Jun. 20, 2013 - 12:47PM JST For all the whiners out there claiming hypocrisy, rest assured each and every poster who is against Japan's whaling >programme is against what Finland and Iceland do as well

What about Russia, USA, Greenland,Canada and all the rest?

PS.. Finland Doesn`t hunt whales :)

1 ( +4 / -3 )

So eyeonwarson, are you intimating that Russia, USA, Greenland, Canada and all the rest are commercial whalers too?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

1 ( +4 / -3 )

yabits,

Truth: To keep the prices as low as possible and try and maintain some kind of market demand, the prices of whale meat are subsidized by the taxpayers living in the country.

It is make-believe fantasy.

Iceland whalers do not get subsidy from taxpayers in Japan. Japan often has the trade barrier for overseas produced food, this is truth. You claim the opposite with no proof.

It's sad when the debate becomes this obvious.

Why is it sad for you? You feel sad to play the make-believe?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Why is it sad for you?

Sad to see one side so obviously wrong.

Iceland whalers do not get subsidy from taxpayers in Japan.

The quote, now somehow missing was "It is not tax payer operation, as you claim. It is commercial operation." But if one reads the original claim, it was as follows:

"The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction which is reflected the retail price of the whale meat sold on the Japanese market. That equally applies to the whale meat caught and sold by the Japanese. To keep the prices as low as possible and try and maintain some kind of market demand, the prices of whale meat are subsidized by the taxpayers living in the country."

It is completely true that prices of whale meat in Japan are subsidized by the taxpayers.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@ yabits

"The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction which is reflected the retail price of the whale meat sold on the Japanese market. That equally applies to the whale meat caught and sold by the Japanese. To keep the prices as low as possible and try and maintain some kind of market demand, the prices of whale meat are subsidized by the taxpayers living in the country."

This is a statement by zichi above ... it´s his opinion, nothing more...

My reply to him being :

*Business 101 - when you have a monopoly, you can pretty much charge what you like. When a second player comes into the market, they`ll undercut the monopoly = sell cheaper.

This isnt rocket science - its simple business ...*

Icelandic whale meat is not subsidised by japenese taxpayers - its exported to Japan by Hvalur, in Japan its distributed through a japanese holding / import company, Misaka Shoji, which was also set up with the help of financing by Hvalur. So, in fact, the holding / import company is contributing taxes to the Japanese government ... be happy ! - less taxes for you :o)

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This is a statement by zichi above ... it´s his opinion, nothing more...

It is a fact that Japan's whaling industry receives subsidies from Japan's taxpayers, despite all attempts to spin otherwise.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Eyeonwarson, "They are all whaling ."

They conduct aboriginal whaling, it's well recognised the commercial trade in aboriginal whale meat is illegal. Any more diversions?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Misaka Shoji (Misaka Trading). “This has given Loftsson the opportunity to sell hundreds of tonnes of Icelandic fin whale already, profiting a Japan-based import company he helped establish by as much as US$8m.”

Japan’s scientific whaling company Kyodo Senpaku is also confirmed as being involved in distributing Icelandic fin whale products, a key concern given its dominance within Japan’s whale meat market and effective control of an extensive distribution network. Kyodo Senpaku receives Japanese gov't subsidies and can only stay in business because of it.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@ swiss toni

They conduct aboriginal whaling, it's well recognised the commercial trade in aboriginal whale meat is illegal. Any more diversions?

you wrote

So eyeonwarson, are you intimating that Russia, USA, Greenland, Canada and all the rest are commercial whalers too?

I did not claim they were commercial whalig - I stated they were whaling ( albeit WDCS claims Greenland is commercial whaling )

Try reading again - it helps with comprehension :)

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

yabits,

It is a fact that Japan's whaling industry receives subsidies from Japan's taxpayers

Article is about Iceland commercial whaling, not Japanese activity. Of course Japan's research activity is somewhat funded by taxpayer money, it is obvious. It is not the commercial whaling. It is the research whaling for public good. Money for it does not fall from the sky.

I do not wish it be so. We hope that Japan would be allowed to do the commercial whaling again, as soon as possible. It is already shown clearly that there are more than 500,000 minke whales in Antarctic ocean. Japan should be given the sustainable quota. Maybe soon, if it does not happen, Abe will have Japan quit IWC and create new IWC for non-anti-whaling countries.

zichi,

Misaka Shoji (Misaka Trading). “This has given Loftsson the opportunity to sell hundreds of tonnes of Icelandic fin whale already, profiting a Japan-based import company he helped establish by as much as US$8m.”

It is quite big investment. I suppose he would not invest such money if he did not have better understanding of marketplace than the crazy anti-whalers, who invest nothing.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@ zichi

Japan’s scientific whaling company Kyodo Senpaku

Kyodo Senpaku is a for profit company - it has two ( now three ) main customers ). The ICR ( a non profit organisation ) and the Fisheries Agency.( JFA ) ( and now Misaka Shoji as well ) The Ships are chartered from Kyodo Senpaku by the ICR / JFA and Kyodo Senpaku handles the distribution of meat from the Permit hunts.

The ICR recieves subsidies from the JFA and the ICR conducts the research.

The only direct ( sort of ) subsidy that Kyodo Senpaku has recieved is when they applied for a loan of ¥2 billion to modernise /refit the Nisshin Maru - the loan was approved with the Japanese government paying 50 to 90% of the Companies operating Deficit for the next three years.

Which raises an interesting conundrum :)

If Kyodo Senpaku has a deficit in any of those three years, it will be in part due to the actions of that buffoon Watson and his clowns - so in fact, Watson will be costing the Japanese taxpayer money in that case.

I await with glee to see those who complain about Kyodo Senpaku show their righteous indignation against watson & co as they are costing the japanese taxpayer money - after all, thats your main complaint against Kyodo Senpaku isn`t it? that it comes from your taxes? :o)

Misaka Shoji (Misaka Trading). “This has given Loftsson the opportunity to sell hundreds of tonnes of Icelandic fin whale already, profiting a Japan-based import company he helped establish by as much as US$8m.

Misaka Shoji company pays taxes in Japan - be happy and buy fin whale meat from them - it reduces your taxes

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Eyeonwarson, " I did not claim they were commercial whaling". "Try reading again it helps with comprehension".

Right back at yer fella. The correct response to my question would have been, "No". Your response was "They are whaling", a clear attempt to derail the discussion.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Last year Kyodo Senpaku received a ¥2.5 billion grant, not loan which was paid out of funds destined for the Tohoku reconstruction.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Eyeonwarson, Kyodo Senpaku is a for profit organisation. It represents Japans remaining deep sea whaling industry. The money that has kept it afloat has been the funds for the JARPA programmes. Entirely taxpayer funded 'research' and distribution of the booty from the hunts. And recently more taxpayer funds wasted to refit the K.S. fleet.

You're being disengenuous to suggest Sea Shepherds activities may cause a greater deficit. K.S. ships and crews are chartered, they get paid their taxpayer funds even if they catch nothing while at sea. Of course, it's fair to say the crews might miss out on their 'bonus' free meat if they catch very little.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@ swiss toni

The correct response to my question would have been, "No". Your response was "They are whaling", a clear attempt to derail the discussion.

How you interpret information placed at your disposal is of course, your choice - I made no claims - however it`s plain to see that grasping at straws is your strong point thankyou. So nice of you to tell me how I should be replying to your questions, facinating actually..

The money that has kept it afloat has been the funds for the JARPA programmes. Entirely taxpayer funded 'research' and distribution of the booty from the hunts. And recently more taxpayer funds wasted to refit the K.S. fleet.

Precisely - For profit - the vast majority of subsidies goes to the ICR so they can charter the ships from a for profit company. The facts are clear, despite disingenious attempts to paint them other wise. The Refit funding was a loan - which will be paid back :)

You're being disengenuous to suggest Sea Shepherds activities may cause a greater deficit.

On the contrary, anything that Watson & clowns do that reduces possible income to KS ends up costing the Japanese taxpaer money and means that you pay more taxes, plain and simple - I`m not surprised that anti whalers deny this seeing as logic seems not to be their strong point.

@ zichi

Last year Kyodo Senpaku received a ¥2.5 billion grant, not loan which was paid out of funds destined for the Tohoku reconstruction.

Show us the source of this claim please, otherwise, it`s simply an unsubstaiated claim

The money that has kept it afloat has been the funds for the JARPA programmes

Which goes to the ICR - the ICR charters the boats and pays for the program - not KS ... you seem to be having trouble understanding this.

Getting back to Hvalur and Icelandic whaling, once again, Misaka Shoji company pays taxes in Japan - be happy and buy fin whale meat from them - it reduces your taxes - as does Kyodo Senpaku when they make a profit.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

>Last year Kyodo Senpaku received a ¥2.5 billion grant, not loan which was paid out of funds destined for the Tohoku reconstruction.

Show us the source of this claim please, otherwise, it`s simply an unsubstaiated claim

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/12/08/use-of-recovery-funds-stokes-japan-whaling-row/

The Fisheries Agency said it is channeling an additional Y2.28 billion, about $30 million, to support this year’s (2011-2012) whale hunting mission,....The funds are a part of the Y498.9 billion that was allotted for the agency in Japan’s Y12 trillion third extra budget, passed last month to cover additional costs for rebuilding the northeast region torn apart by the barreling tsunami.*

>the ICR charters the boats and pays for the program - not KS

The government takes the money from the people and gives it to the icr, the icr takes the money and gives it to ks to run the boats.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Loftsson does not pay a single yen in income tax on the $8 million he makes from selling his Fin whale meat in Japan. He will have to pay import tax and sales, standard procedure, but because it don't live in Japan he won't be paying any Japanese income tax. Whether his companies pays much in the way of business tax will depend on their profits which I would expect would be low after all their goings.

Kyodo Senpaku only manages to stay in business because of gov't subsidies and at least two previous whaling companies stated they would not return to whaling even if commercial whaling were allowed because they can't make enough profit to stay in business.

The issue of Kyodo Senpaku receiving money from the Tohoku reconstruction funds was well discussed previously on this forum.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Zichi`s original posts :

While I, like millions of others pay taxes, which is also used to give massive subsidies to the whaling industry then I feel that I have a right to object how those taxes are misspent..

KS however is a private for profit company, who also pay taxes.

The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction.

It is as shown above.

The Fisheries Agency said it is channeling an additional Y2.28 billion, about $30 million, to support this year’s (2011-2012) whale hunting mission,....

So Y2.28 billion went to the JFA and ICR as subsidies - thanks for proving my point, it did`nt go as a subsidy to KS.

Last year Kyodo Senpaku received a ¥2.5 billion grant, not loan which was paid out of funds destined for the Tohoku reconstruction.

Nope, no sourced information that KS recieved a ¥2.5 billion grant yet .. ....

Loftsson does not pay a single yen in income tax on the $8 million he makes from selling his Fin whale meat in Japan.

Source for this unsubstantiated claim please

Whether his companies pays much in the way of business tax will depend on their profits which I would expect would be low after all their goings

Thankyou for confirming that his companies will Pay taxes in Japan, thus reducing your tax burden. I am still waiting for the complaints about Watson and his seagoons increasing your tax burden - if your taxes is your beef as it seems, then anything else is hypocritical.

Kyodo Senpaku only manages to stay in business because of gov't subsidies

Factually Incorrect as shown above.

The issue of Kyodo Senpaku receiving money from the Tohoku reconstruction funds was well discussed previously on this forum.

I am happy that you discussed it - however, it does not change tthe fact the KS did not recieve direct subsidies from the reconstruction funds as you claimed. JFA and the ICR are completely different stories - your claim is I`m afraid, wrong.

The government takes the money from the people and gives it to the icr, the icr takes the money and gives it to ks to run the boats.

Thankyou for confirming that JFA / ICR recieves the subsidies - and rents/ charters the boats from the tax paying for profit company KS.

Incidentally, Hvalur have taken another Fin whale, when it´s meat appears on your shelves in a few months or so, be sure to buy it and help reduce your taxes - every little bit helps :)

.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Eyeonwarson, "How you interpret information placed at your disposal is of course, your choice - I made no claims - however it`s plain to see that grasping at straws is your strong point thankyou. So nice of you to tell me how I should be replying to your questions, facinating actually.."

I asked you if you we're intimating the stated countries were whaling commercially. You provided an evasive answer and then told me I should read more carefully. My question was reasonable and you failed to respond properly and i suspect your feigned indignation is all that's left having been caught out.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@ swiss toni

I asked you if you we're intimating the stated countries were whaling commercially. You provided an evasive answer

I replied that they were all whaling and that WDCS thinks Greenlands aboriginal whaling is commercial.

You provided an evasive answer and then told me I should read more carefully

I`ll do it again, read my answer to the OP again - I was asking him a question...

My question was reasonable and you failed to respond properly

= I failed to respond how you wished me to respond to fit your agenda ...

and i suspect your feigned indignation is all that's left having been caught out.

What you suspect in your mind is your problem. It has nothing to do with reality - have a nice day

@ zichi

Loftsson does not pay a single yen in income tax on the $8 million he makes from selling his Fin whale meat in Japan.

Are you suggesting that Misaka Shoji will not pay Corporation taxes? Facinating ...

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

eyeonwatson

any company only pays taxes on profits not on gross income. Individuals like Loftsson don't pay income taxes in two countries and since he actually lives in Iceland and not Japan he will be paying Icelandic income taxes and not a single yen in Japanese income tax.

I suggest people who actually live in Japan rather than someone who lives in Norway have better info on what is happening here. Last year there was public outrage about Tohoku reconstruction funds being diverted to Kyodo Senpaku and the whaling industry. Cleo provided one link on the story but you ignored it.

There are many business especially the privately owned ones like Misaka Shoji which may not be paying that much in business tax. Misaka Shoji isn't a corporation, its a privately owned company.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Readers, please stop bickering.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Zichi

Individuals like Loftsson don't pay income taxes in two countries.

Really? I work in three countries and pay taxes in all of them.

I suggest people who actually live in Japan rather than someone who lives in Norway have better info on what is happening here.

I don`t live in Norway, I am not Norwegian or Icelandic or come from a whaling country and I live in the EU thanks, so wrong again :)

You have yet to supply any substantiated links to your sources - so as far as I ( and I am sure others ) are concerned, your claims remain your unsubstantiated opinions. Do your research and provide sources.

Last year there was public outrage about Tohoku reconstruction funds being diverted to Kyodo Senpaku.

The sunsidies went to the JFA & ICR as shown above - if they wish to give a for profit company contracts, then of course they will have to give them money - you claimed that the money went direct to Ks - which is untrue.

There are many business especially the privately owned ones like Misaka Shoji which may not be paying that much in business tax. Misaka Shoji isn't a corporation, its a privately owned company.

They are still paying taxes - you are ignoring this - the import and sale of Fin whale meat from Iceland contributes to reducing your tax burden via the taxes MS pay to Japan - the funding the JFA & ICR recieve from public funds is directly affected by the Seagooons interference - yet you remain silent on that increasing your tax burden .. where I come from, we call that hypocrisy - but be my guest.

Your claim that " The importing of whale meat from Iceland into Japan isn't just a straight forward kind of business transaction " has been proven wrong, bu feel free to keep digging ;)

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Readers, please focus your comments on what is in the story. Posts that do not will be removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

eyeonwatson like I said people living here know better what happens here than someone like you living in the EU.

Basically, every aspect of Japanese whaling is corrupt from calling its commercial whaling "scientific research" to giving huge gov't subsidies of ¥800 million to ¥2.5 billion, every year to the whaling industry, including diverting funds which were suppose to be for the reconstruction of Tohoku where about 350,000 people lost their homes to the disasters.

Also allowing the illegal imports of species which are listed has endangered or threatened. The importing of these whale meats does nothing to reduce the overall tax burdens of the people living here. The amounts collected, from that point of view are insignificant.

Kyodo Senpaku is the only whaling company still in business. The other whaling companies gave it up years ago and they see no future in whaling even if commercial whaling were allowed again.

Its a ever increasing dying market with only about 12% of all adults eating any whale meat over the past two years which works out at less than 50 grams per adult per year. The young people have very little interest in eating whale meat.

750,000 Fin whales were killed leaving less than 100,000 across the globe, and probably even less than that number. The Fin whale and Blue whale were almost killed into extinction.

The killing of these whales can't feed the world and in fact the killing of all whale species can't feed the world. With the world population likely to increase by 3-4 billion this century, a whole different attitude to providing foodstuffs will be required and the bottom of the chain will be those taken from all animal sources. Since it takes more land, more water, more natural resources to produce 1 kg of animal protein than it does to produce 1 kg of vegetable protein.

The total amount of taxes collected from every aspect connected with whale meat is very insignificant amounts. The number of workers employed in the industry is less than 1,000 people. For many of those its seasonal work without steady incomes.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@ zichi

Also allowing the illegal imports of species which are listed has endangered or threatened.

The import of whale meat from Non endangered regional fin whales from Iceland is legal under CITES - look it up. Hvalur will export their 2013 catch to Japan under CITES

From the IUCN (< http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/1>)

The IWC set catch limits to zero for fin whales in the North Pacific and Southern Hemisphere in 1976. Catch limits for all commercial whaling have been set at zero by the IWC since 1986. However, this moratorium does not apply to Iceland, Norway or the Russian Federation which have objected to this provision. Limited aboriginal subsistence whaling is permitted by the IWC for fin whales taken off West Greenland. Fin whales are listed on Appendix I of the Convention on Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), but this does not apply to Iceland, Norway and Japan, who hold reservations. Fin whales are also listed on Appendices I and II of the Convention on Migratory Species (CMS).

The Export by Iceland and Import by Japan of the legally hunted Fin whales by Hvalur is legal under the auspices of both the IWC and CITES - even the IUCN states this.

I suggest you stay on the topic of Hvalur and fin whales

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Iceland, which I believe still owes countries like Denmark and Britain billions from the collapsed banks would probably gain economically from becoming an EU member and would receive more money than what it would pay, but to become an EU member now, it would have to give up its whaling. It remains concerned by joining the EU it would lose control of its own fish stocks so that problem too would have to be resolved.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Eyeonwarson,

"@ swiss toni

I asked you if you we're intimating the stated countries were whaling commercially. You provided an evasive answer

I replied that they were all whaling and that WDCS thinks Greenlands aboriginal whaling is commercial."

Your response was evasive, it's there in black and white. The link was described by you as incidental. The WDC does indeed believe some of the subsistence whaling meat ends up of being sold commercially. They're not the only ones to have reported that either. Sadly it reflects the level of corruption applied to trade in any endangered species, whale meat, rhino horn, elephant tusks and shark fin are all great examples. There's no need to thank me for pointing this out, like opposing whaling, it's my moral duty.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@ swisstoni

I disagree, but as the moderators have asked us to stay on topic, I`ll leave it at that ..

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Saw a few "Where is Watson and Sea Shepherd?" comments. First, Watson & Co. has in the past taken on whalers as far east as the English Channel. Second, that legal issue he faces came from a corrupt charge brought forth by a shark finning operator in the eastern Pacific. Third, that lead in turn to an Interpol "Red Note" based on him skipping German bail derived from the fishing boat issue. Fourth, and finally, it's hard to be in two different places at the same time.

Yes, "native Americans" do take a few whales off the coastal waters of Oregon and Washington and yes, the greenies have their panties in a wad over it.

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Iceland is a great country, now with whale meat is a greater country

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smithinjapanJun. 20, 2013 - 12:47PM JST For all the whiners out there claiming hypocrisy, rest assured each and every poster who is against Japan's whaling programme is against what Finland and Iceland do as well. There ARE, two distinct differences between what the latter two nations do and what Japan does

Finland? In the past the Finnish authorities have confiscated and a few years ago signed a protest against Iceland's commercial whaling. My country isn't involved in commercial whaling.

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I asked you if you we're intimating the stated countries were whaling commercially.

I think only group who cares about distinction of "whaling" and "commercial whaling" is anti-whalers, for their propaganda purpose. Such distinction can be attractive to appeal to the left-wing people who think to make money for providing service to others is a wrong thing.

Non-anti-whalers only care about distinction of sustainable whaling, and unsustainable whaling. We prefer the former, and against the latter.

As for the whales, they do not care at all, I am sure.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As for the whales, they do not care at all, I am sure.

Of course they don't. They're quite happy to have huge harpoons exploding inside their bodies and ripping their guts out so that they can be processed into dog food.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Whales do not care about distinction between "whaling" and "commercial whaling", unlike anti-whalers. That is the point.

Maybe you mean to say some anti-whalers. This anti-whaler finds the Japanese but it's research excuse nothing but a pathetic, mealymouthed attempt to slide past the iwc moratorium on commercial whaling, but personally I want to see it all stopped.

And maybe you could concentrate on the topic at hand, instead of trying to insult anyone who disagrees with your empathy-challenged 'animals are just lumps of meat' stance.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Ihope2eatwhales, "I think only group who cares about distinction of "whaling" and "commercial whaling" is anti-whalers, for their propaganda purpose".

There are quite a few groups that care. The Japanese whalers and the ICR insist their whaling isn't commercial in order to justify their hunts. Aboriginal whalers care as they have justified their cultural claims to continue subsistence whaling but don't (shouldn't) sell the meat on the open market. The IWC cares as there's a moratorium on commercial whaling. And you do of course.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Jerome_from_Utah

First, Watson & Co. has in the past taken on whalers as far east as the English Channel.

So why did Sea Shepherd stop taking on whalers there since the whaling is still going on?

Third, that lead in turn to an Interpol "Red Note" based on him skipping German bail derived from the fishing boat issue.

Sorry but there are two Interpol red notices and neither one is based on him skipping bail.

Fourth, and finally, it's hard to be in two different places at the same time.

Sea Shepherd has 4 vessels. No need to be at two places at once.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Whales are Full of Toxins but takes time for poisons to be seen. Keep eating whales and you will see the same effects as minamata disease.

The scandal first came to light in the 1950s, but it was not until more than 50 years later that the state fully recognized the extent of the problem.

Mercury poisoning affects the body’s immune system and the development of the brain and nervous system, posing the greatest risk to fetuses and infants. It's what I've been saying all along about Fukushima

Read the first comment at the bottom.....

http://www.japantoday.com/smartphone/view/national/delegates-pay-tribute-at-minamata-mercury-poison-site?utm_campaign=jt_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=jt_newsletter_2013-10-10_AM Hi Zichi ganbatte mate Robert

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