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In rare move, Michigan school shooter's parents charged with manslaughter

62 Comments
By Chris Lefkow

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62 Comments

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I've already thought parents were also responsible in such cases. After all, they raised this individual. Make parents responsible and there should be fewer such cases.

10 ( +21 / -11 )

These charges won't hold in Michigan.

Now, if they don't show up for their arraignment, that could result in different charges.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Now, if they don't show up for their arraignment, that could result in different charges.

They didn't. They're on the lam and here is a manhunt for them.

22 ( +24 / -2 )

Parents knew this kid was emotionally-disturbed and violent (the school had warned them) and yet they literally gave him a loaded handgun to keep and use as he pleases with no supervision.

**** involuntary manslaughter charges, they should be charged as accessories to First Degree Murder (four counts each).

19 ( +25 / -6 )

I've already thought parents were also responsible in such cases. After all, they raised this individual. Make parents responsible and there should be fewer such cases.

I think some school administrators should be held responsible too. Have you read accounts of the "behaviors" the parents were called to school the morning of the shooting and the day before to discuss? That kid should not have been in school and the police should have been notified.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

YrralToday  07:19 am JST

Reg, they are already fugitive from Justice ,what you expect from Trump supporters, a judge issue a warrant for their arrest

They left town temporarily.

They won't be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter though.

The AvengerToday  07:08 am JST

they should be charged as accessories to First Degree Murder (four counts each).

Not in Michigan because there was no element of malice on the parents part, which is the distinguishing factor between murder and involuntary manslaughter.

Desert TortoiseToday  07:10 am JST

I think some school administrators should be held responsible too.

Agreed--they also had a legal duty.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Sympathies to the families and friends of the young people butchered by another US American with a gun, which he carried with him to school because of some odd sense maybe 'freedom' or 'strength'.

Beyond, it's legal, why does anyone need a 9mm semi-automatic hand gun, a weapon small enough to carry easily and which can be used to shoot lots of people quickly but with little other value. I cannot see why any hunter would use it.

the kid's parents who bought it must also be of questionable mental/emotional make-up. Though some can make the argument in this case it was a violent/ gun-sick society that affected those sick individuals who then further poisoned the well.

The US's gun disease is being further spread by its sickest individuals, mainly US males who must feel inadequate and unhappy when they're not carrying a warm gun.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

Not in Michigan because there was no element of malice on the parents part, which is the distinguishing factor between murder and involuntary manslaughter

I would not be too sure. Example, The day before the shooting, a teacher at Oxford High School saw Ethan Crumbley searching online for ammunition on his phone. When the teacher reported that to school officials, the school left Jennifer Crumbley a voicemail, McDonald said. There was no reply. The school then sent an email to the parents, and again there was no reply from either of them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley, exchanged texts with her son, saying "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."

On November 30, the day of the shooting, Ethan Crumbley's teacher came across a note that "alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone," the prosecutor said. The note contained "a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words 'the thoughts won't stop help me,'" and it included a drawing of a bullet with "blood everywhere" written above it, McDonald said.

"Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji," McDonald said.

The note also had "my life is useless" and "the world is dead" scrawled on it, she said.

The parents were called to the school right away. A school counselor took Ethan Crumbley and his backpack to the office. By then, the drawing had been altered: The gun drawing, the bloody figure and the words "help me," "My life is useless," "The world is dead" and "blood everywhere" had been scratched out.

The school told the parents they had to get counseling for their son within 48 hours. The school also told the parents to take their son home. They refused and left.

This is why the prosecutor has I think very good probable cause to charge the parents with manslaughter.

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Waw, the parents actually abandon their kid and escape in order to avoid taking responsibility. No wonder their kid is mess up.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Desert TortoiseToday  07:55 am JST

I would not be too sure.

I am sure.

It is the law in Michigan. As a starter, here's a statute: MCL 750.329(1)

Like Alec Baldwin--if his incident had occurred in Michigan, he would not be charged with (or guilty of) murder, because there was no malice.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Like Alec Baldwin--if his incident had occurred in Michigan, he would not be charged with (or guilty of) murder, because there was no malice.

The mother's text to the son not to get caught and the parents refusal to take the boy home after being showed the things he wrote show considerable malice on their part.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Besides 'thoughts and prayers, here are the usual responses:

"One Republican legislator ( Rep. Steve Carra, R-Three Rivers) recommended a law that would allow teachers to keep personal firearms in their classrooms, so long as they remain in a lockbox."

“But if we get obsessed with eliminating all risks, we will then develop and evolve into a country we won’t recognize because we’ll also have no freedom. It’s a balance.”we have, because there’s a lot of them,” Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, R-Clarklake.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Desert TortoiseToday  08:12 am JST

The mother's text to the son not to get caught and the parents refusal to take the boy home after being showed the things he wrote show considerable malice on their part.

You can argue that of course, but those acts don't meet the standard in Michigan. Which is why the parents aren't being charged with murder.

No malice is required for involuntary manslaughter, however, but the State has to prove gross negligence beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you can see that the hurdle to overcome is lower for the DA on an involuntary charge in this case against the parents.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Sentence to the parents: 40 years at least, for each.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Sentence to the 15-year-old shooter: he deserves death penalty.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Some school administrative staff should be charged with involuntary manslaughter as well. The boy should have been suspended pending completion of the counseling they told the parents to get him and then the police called and he boy escorted off the campus when the parents refused to take him home. The school let that kid and the rest of the student body down in a very big way. Some of their staff are nearly as culpable as the parents, who's cavalier attitude amaze me. And now they are on the run.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Bottom line is that nothing will stop this madness. America couldn't do anything after Sandy Hook, that's the barometer reading of this country. GOP, NRA, MAGA and the other nut cases are just as responsible for perpetuating this gun fetish.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

A: They can’t be charged with murder.

B: But they aren’t.

A: They can’t. Not in Michigan.

B: Yeah, but they aren’t being charged with murder

A: Good, because they can’t.

B: They’re being charged with manslaughter, says it right in the headline.

A: If Alec Baldwin had been in Michigan…

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Bob fosseToday  08:40 am JST

Oh, you misread the order and content of the posts.

But funny attempted recreation anyway!

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Oh, you misread the order and content of the posts.

No, I didn’t.

But funny attempted recreation anyway!

You were saying something about Baldwin being charged with murder in Michigan. Do go on.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Bob FosseToday  08:51 am JST

You were saying something about Baldwin being charged with murder in Michigan. Do go on.

I said he wouldn't be charged with murder in Michigan. Because of lack of malice.

Different from saying something abiut him being charged with murder in Michigan, right?

RegBilkToday  08:06 am JST

*Like Alec Baldwin--if his incident had occurred in Michigan, he would not be charged with (or guilty of) murder, because there was *no malice.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Back on topic please. Baldwin is not relevant to this discussion.

Sentence to the 15-year-old shooter: he deserves death penalty.

There is no death penalty in Michigan.

And please, stop howling for blood. There’s way too much of it spilled in America already. Way too many guns and bullets, way too much distrust and hatred. America is getting more dysfunctional by the day.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

What kind of person would give a 15 year old a gun in the first place?

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Stop focusing solely on the gun, the only thing that matters is why? Why would this kid do what what he did? If he felt bullied why didn’t he get help, what drove his impulse to want to harm others in that manner, something deeper and more disturbing behind this and that should never be overlooked.

Beyond, it's legal, why does anyone need a 9mm semi-automatic hand gun, a weapon small enough to carry easily and which can be used to shoot lots of people quickly but with little other value. I cannot see why any hunter would use it.

Because it’s their right if they were law abiding citizens. Now I will admit this all is bizarre on all of their parts, the kid seemed very mentally disturbed drawing pictures and begging for help, there needs to be a closer examination, a lot of things were happening in that shook under the noses of the administration and that should have never happened, the growing and dangerous signs were there and no one picked up on them.

the kid's parents who bought it must also be of questionable mental/emotional make-up. Though some can make the argument in this case it was a violent/ gun-sick society that affected those sick individuals who then further poisoned the well. 

I agree on the first one, but not on the second part. There is something deeper to all of this

The US's gun disease is being further spread by its sickest individuals, mainly US males who must feel inadequate and unhappy when they're not carrying a warm gun.

I have no idea what that comment was about, it’s not going the issue at this time that the majority of parents or politicians care about or dwell on, but they are definitely laser-focused on what this kid did and where his family is and their whereabouts. If you follow the crumbs I just have a feeling a lot of this kids disturbing behavior was nurtured in his home in some fashion, all the more reason to find the parents and have a sit down with them.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Pretty freaking messed up what those parents did.

And although what they did is messed up in so many levels, isn't this just their 'murican culture? I mean, "mah freedom. We love guns, mah right to own whatever guns I want however I want 'em."

They're being charged for expressing their 'murican culture.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

It is NOT against the law in Michigan to NOT lock up your guns in your home.

That is how a 15 year old was able to carry a 9mm Sig into a school.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So angry kids can get their parents put away for a decade or two? Parenthood just became a whole lot less attractive.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

My dad bought me a gun when I was 12 (it was a different time) and I bought my daughter a hand gun (this is in America) when she was a little older. (Full disclosure: it was a .22 and we like to shoot at the range. It’s fun.)

But there was no case in which the location of the weapon was unknown. There were no circumstances in which my daughter would have been able to access the gun without my express permission.

These are criminally negligent parents and they should and will be held accountable.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Always close my heart was Christmas, when I5 years, I received all the girly stuff, clothes, new handbag, expensive trainers and sensible shoes.

Actually, on the top of my wish list was a Smith & Wesson Model 5906, accompanied with a staggered-column magazine. The Benelli M4 H2O Tactical would have looked silly attempting to conceal in a handbag.

Sorry for the sarcasm.

i just cannot think of anything more utterly deranged and insane that Santa arriving down the chimney with a wrapped handgun for junior to present for all the family to admire at Christmas dinner.

It gives peace on earth and goodwill to all men a whole new meaning.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

When mass shooting attacks occured in Australia, New Zealand and Canada, the governments there (the conservative government in Australia's case) took swift and decisive action to mitigate the risks of further attacks. You can argue as to their effectiveness, for example New Zealand's gun crime rates continued to rise after their buyback, but they were seen to be doing something. If nothing else, it sends a message that gun violence is not acceptable and there will be consequences.

It seems to me that America has got it wrong in guaranteeing gun ownership, rather than allowing it by law. This is obvious in its sky high rates of gun violence compared with all other comparable countries. The Second Amendment does allow for quite a bit of gun control but it has to be a federal, nationwide effort.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

(Again: Full disclosure I am a gun owner in the US)

I took my girls to a Walmart in Colorado Springs back in the day. There was an AR on the wall for sale. And I asked the salesperson “If I said ‘ring it up’, how long till I walk out the store WITH ammunition?”

The answer was “if the phone is free, 30 min.” That is just insane. Again, I am a gun owner and the fact that assault weapons can be bought at a super store in half an hour is the very definition of insanity.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

So angry kids can get their parents put away for a decade or two? Parenthood just became a whole lot less attractive.

Answer:

But there was no case in which the location of the weapon was unknown. There were no circumstances in which my daughter would have been able to access the gun without my express permission.

> These are criminally negligent parents and they should and will be held accountable.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

that assault weapons can be bought at a super store in half an hour

Can be bought?

Walmart stopped selling those almost 7 years ago.

could be bought, past tense.

See? Positive changes have occurred since a misleading anecdote about back in the day.

as far as the parents why not start blaming makers/owners of SUVs then as being also responsible in the crime?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Agreed, all tragic incidents & shocking stats @zichi 10:13am but why such a big gap between 2012 - 2021?

*- @zichi 10:13am: “19,000 were killed in 2012. 652 mass shootings. 285 dead children. All shocking figures. - https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ -*

- “American suffers from out of control gun violence. Lax gun laws will ensure gun homicide crimes will never end. The highest rates in all the developed countries. The rates have soared this year. How many were killed this year? How many mass shootings?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It seems to me that America has got it wrong in guaranteeing gun ownership, rather than allowing it by law. 

When the 2nd Amendment was written the world was ruled by hereditary tyrants often backed by oppressive clergy. Possessing a gun was seen as a guarantee a government in the US could not long usurp the rights of citizens as those citizens were armed and capable of deposing a tyrant. America then was rural and much of its leadership was committed to keeping it that way. Few wanted to see the kinds of big cities prevalent in Europe with their crime and poverty. I often wonder if the founders had known how he US would develop would have written the 2nd Amendment a little tighter, say to restrict those firearms to use with a formal trained and state controlled militia? Of course it is a question no one can ever answer.

Theoretically a new Amendment to the Constitution could repeal the 2nd Amendment but that is politically impossible at this point.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

 the fact that assault weapons can be bought at a super store in half an hour is the very definition of insanity.

It is also the very definition of America.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So we are really going to go down the path of charging both members of a family as co owners of a gun when someone else uses it to kill?

so every time someone is killed by gun or SUV or anything else, we now need to determine ownership? And if it’s not theirs the owner gets charged too?

insanity.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

At 15 years I was a nerdy plain Jane, haven't changed to this day,

At school unpopular, I achieved grades my parents waved around at family get togethers.

The fact is I was never invited to any of the cool students parties.

And i never bothered send out more than 6/7 birthday invitations, It hurt.

There were a bunch of us who sat at the sad table for lunch.

Ethan Crumbley, for whatever reason, yet to be disclosed, decided to go on a alleged slaughtering spree.

Ethan Crumbley with the benefit of hindsight should never have been in contact with any firearms,

Is Ethan Crumbley culpable, well that is for a court to judge.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Fair enough @zichi 10:54am 2021 vs 2012. - (Asking the mods to kindly correct that @10:13am may help as they can also be ‘fast on the trigger, so to speak.)

@zichi 10:54am: “snowymountainhelL … [*why such a big gap between 2012 - 2021**?]*

-“Sorry. That was a typo: 19,000 deaths from gun homicides in 2021. The figures in 2014 were 13,000 deaths.” -

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Stop focusing solely on the gun, the only thing that matters is why?

No, we should focus on the gun. Because that's what he used to carry out the murders. If he'd only had fists there would be zero deaths.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The answer .for families that have suffered any future for most beloved, there children, ell that give meaning to there lives, wrenched at the alleged point of a gun, wheeled by Ethan Crumbley.

Want straight answers!

Ethan Crumbley., and yes his Mother and Father have to be held accountable to Judicial process

And if deemed accountable face the consequences.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

GooD!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I often wonder if the founders had known how he US would develop would have written the 2nd Amendment a little tighter

The second amendment very clearly states "well-regulated militia", so the most neutral interpretation would link it to membership of a militia, but law in the US is an extension of politics.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sentence to the 15-year-old shooter: he deserves death penalty.

Yeah, because the solution to a child who kills children is to have adults killing children. SMH.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Zichi, more people kill themselves in America, with their own gun, than homicide in America, they were capture in Detroit as of now Google Gun Owner Suicide

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The second amendment very clearly states "well-regulated militia", so the most neutral interpretation would link it to membership of a militia, but law in the US is an extension of politics.

I agree. And, for the most part, the courts applied that ‘collective rights’ interpretation to it. It wasn’t until about the 1970s that special interest groups starting pushing their ‘individual rights’ theory, which SCOTUS finally bought in 2008.

All that said, even Justice Scalia allowed in that decision that longstanding prohibitions on persons and restrictions on types of weapons applied by state and federal laws were still constitutional. Worth noting also, that the founding fathers were no strangers to gun control. In that era there were registrations, firearm inspections, and safe storage laws; mostly applied to the storage of gunpowder. Not to mention full blown prohibitions on gun ownership of groups of people like slaves and loyalists.

Also, towns in the so-called ‘wild west’ had a lot of gun control, and in many of them you had to hand in your firearms to the authorities when you entered the town. The gunfight at the OK Corral occurred as a result of Earp trying to enforce the gun laws of the town by disarming the Clantons and friends.

So, for as long as America has had guns, it’s also had gun control. ‘Shall not be infringed’ is complete nonsense.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

They left town temporarily.

Otherwise known as going on the run. That's why there were wanted posters published with a reward.

And now they've been arrested.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So, for as long as America has had guns, it’s also had gun control. ‘Shall not be infringed’ is complete nonsense.

Thanks for the background. But as the interpretation constitution is now indirectly owned by the gun industry, it is sadly just an historical footnote.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ah_so,

Absolutely. And with the NYSRPA v Bruen case in front of the conservative majority Supreme Court, in which a decision on whether the right to keep and bear arms extends to outside the home (the court has never answered that question), it may get a lot worse as all sorts of carry restrictions could be ruled unconstitutional.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There were stages wherein the tragedy would not have happened.

If the First Amendment had been seen as an anachronism and treated accordingly to guarantee the safety of the citizenry a century ago.

That being impossible, the father should not have been given his disturbed son a gun.

Having given his son a gun he should have given his a strict set of instructions of when when he could take possession of the gun and where and where not to use it--and how to use it.

Mom and dad should have asked where the gun was. If in the backpack the parents should have taken the gun after.

If the kid said he was feeling weird they should dropped everything, called the school and gone there.

Well, it did happen that way anyway.

Forget the police. They cannot go into action unless there is evidence of violation of the law, which includes a verbal threat.

What we have is the worst possible situation.

Unfortunately, Mom and Pop were nut cases. No surprise the kid was not of sound mind.

The U.S. needs strict gun control just like Japan.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

For "It did happen that way" read "It did NOT happen that way."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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