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In swing states, McCain and Obama spar over taxes

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If Obama can draw 100 000 people in St Louis two weeks before the election, I don't think it is as close as the polls show.

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well the old man sounds pretty desperate -- i guess it is his last chance to outrank his father and grandfather (as president he would outrank a 4-star admiral) and i guess he is willing to risk the well-being of the country, because he don't look too healthy, not healthy enough to last for a full term.

if his negative campaign connects, it will probably mean that sarahcuda and the first dude would occupy the white house -- i wonder where they would hang their moose?

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Obama is lying.

He can't "cut taxes" on 95% of people,because more than 40% of people ALREADY don't pay any taxes.

What he means is that he will give welfare style payments to peoplein the form of refundable tax credits. NOT the same thing as tax cuts. More like wealth redistribution.

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more than 40% of people ALREADY don't pay any taxes.

That sounds like a very high proportion of too-poor people in the world's wealthiest country. Either that, or the tax system is wonky.

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DS

more than 40% of people ALREADY don't pay any taxes.

Prove it. Don't make statements like that and expect people to believe it without proof.

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goodDonkey,

You can start here.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/207.html

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"more than 40% of people ALREADY don't pay any taxes."

"Prove it. Don't make statements like that and expect people to believe it without proof."

I would think that with the election less than three weeks away an informed citizen and voter would have discovered that for himself by now.

But that's just me, in Japan.

Obama lies when he talks about tax cuts.

He is really talking about tax credits - the Left's way of repackaging welfare in order to buy votes.

This should be apparent to anyone who stops to consider that if 40 percent of working families pay no income taxes then what they would get under Obama and his duplicitous '95 percent of working families will get a tax cut' is not a tax cut but a handout, money the government has taken from someone else.

What's surprising to me is the apathy - we have one group of people paying no taxes who are allowed to vote on how the government shall increase the burden of those who do.

I also think we are looking at an Obama administration that may well undo the advances President Clinton made with welfare reform.

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Obama says he'll cut taxes for 95% of Americans, yet 40% of Americans do not pay taxes. Cleo is right - the U.S. tax system IS wonky! And Obama is clueless. My God, we're going to have a clueless president...

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sailwind,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to that chart it seems that many of the low-income workers are already getting a check from Uncle Sam. If that is true and Obama increases the size of the check, he is not breaking any new ground in terms of "giveaways" except by--as he says--reducing the amount of tax burden.

Using the Obama tax calculator at

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

and calculating for a $20,000 single earner with two dependents and no child care expenses, the result gives a $500 tax cut under Obama and a $0 cut under McCain. Where does the $500 tax cut come from? (If you assume child care expenses the numbers are $1379 and $0 respectively.)

Using the Tax Policy Center chart at

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

and calculating for a $15,000 adjusted gross income single earner with two dependents the numbers are $486 under Obama and $19 under McCain. Where does the $19 come from?

The one thing I will say about taxes is that they have turned American citizens into a nation of poor accountants. It's not the money. It's the time, the care, the attention and the obsession.

In any event, if there's a woman out there who is working full time and earning $10,000 and has to support two children, I don't mind that she gets a check. I don't mind that she gets a bigger check under Obama. When she starts getting enough tax money that she doesn't have to work at all, then I'll worry.

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Actually he can cut taxes, just type in Fact Check Taxes and get the facts.

The Tax Foundation is a Conservative leaning group but it is a good source if you want the Conservative swing on taxes.

I believe that the numbers are around 45 millions that earn too little to pay taxes. Below the POVERTY level or are disabled or Retired.....

That leaves about 100,000,000 workers who pay taxes. Make enough to pay taxes.

In my book if you make enough to pay taxes then pay them. But if you dont you should not have to. This belief by some that there should be a cap on the rich is a joke. Everyone should pay their fair share.

If you make 40,000 then get taxed X percent on that if you make. 250,000 or more then get taxed X percent on that. There should not be a cap or a loop hole so you can escape from paying your share.

All Patriotic Americans dont mind paying their share of our nations burden. Only those that are unpatriotic and undeserving of being Americans complain about paying taxes and try to avoid paying their share.

We are all Americans and we should pay our fair share!

Man I love playing the reserve on the far right here. Can not wait to see how many complain about paying their taxes!

Just ask Joe the Plumber, a Red White and Blue American, and a Republican backer if he pays his taxes. You will see that Joe pays his taxes like a true blu.... what? What did you say? Joe the Far Right Republican owes back taxes?

Ok forget about those far right anti-American terrorist loving neo cons paying their fair share. Only the Center and the left dont mind paying their taxes.LOL

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Sarge,

Why don't you put that question to Obama or to his staff and find out how clueless he really is. Just tell them that you (as was Joe, wink, nod) are an undecided voter and you can't really understand why Obama says this. It may take a while, but I'd be surprised if you didn't get some answer.

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Leave it to JoeBigs to pick on Joe the Plumber because, like millions of other Americans, he owes the IRS some taxes.

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Sez - As a matter of fact, I just sent a mail to Obama's website asking him how he's gonna give a tax cut to 95% of Americans when 40% don't pay taxes. I'll let you know if I get an answer.

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tax cut to 95%

I wonder if he means 95% of tax payers? Hmmmmmmmmm could it be?LOL

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None of Obama's supporters can tell you exactly where his tax cut is going to come from.

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Man I love playing the reserve on the far right here. Can not wait to see how many complain about paying their taxes!

Who's complaining about paying their taxes? The issue is how those tax dollars are spent. I'd like a little say in that myself, since I'm a single filer earn an average income and have had to pay at a higher rate my entire working life.

Joe, I'm the guy footing the bill, and I should just be quite and not have some sort of say as to where the money should be spent?????

Here is an idea, instead of giving a 500 dollar tax check of my money to a person that doesn't have to pay taxes in the first place. Take that 500 and pay down the National debt instead so future generations won't have to saddled with it before we all end up in the poor house and I also become one of those that don't have to pay taxes anymore.

Pretty unpatriotic of me dontch'a think.

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JoeBigs - According to Obama's wensite, and I quote:

"Obama's comprehensive tax policy for American will:

cut taxes for 95% of workers and their families"

The question is, is he lying, or is he stupid? Or is it both?

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I remember when dubya cut a check for between 300 and 600 for everyone in the states. So if obama is giving a tax credit isn't he really doing what dubya did with out all the paperwork. By the way what did that all cost anyways, you know printing, postage, verification, or does that not matter as well.

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Because of his party's behaviour towards the economy it's resulted in the US's banking system been nationalized and McCain is going on about how 'bad' a welfare system is. It's his party that has brought in socialism. Does he not get coffee in the morning? The irony is not even oxymoronic it's just moronic.

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Obama is going to win. News just in - the Obama campaign has just announced record campaign donations of $150 million for September.

john mccain is wasting his time and supporters' money.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money

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CORRECTION: Obama's campaign raised more than $150 million in September, added 632,000 new donors in September, for a total of 3.1 million contributors to the campaign.

The previous best fundraising total for the Obama campaign was $65 million in August.

bye bye mccain, it's all over, time to tell your unpatriotic, anti-America supporters to go home and for you to retire with some dignity.

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"the Obama campaign has just announced record campaign contributions of $150 million for September"

Yeah, Obama's been outspending the McCain campaign by about 3-1. You would think he'd be at least 20 points ahead of McCain...

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john mccain was born choking with a silver spoon in his mouth.

john mccain is behind in almost every poll, newspaper endorsements, funding, event turnout....pretty much everything.

Obama is even ahead of mccain in the over 65's LOL! - that's meant to be mccain's bedrock, not any more. :-)

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sarge: "Yeah, Obama's been outspending the McCain campaign by about 3-1. You would think he'd be at least 20 points ahead of McCain..."

I hope you remember this comment when he's more than 20 points ahead in some polls in a few days. Last time he passed the 10 point mark you said 'he should be ahead' in, you quickly changed it to twenty. Getting there, sarge... only at 15 or so now in some areas, but growing quickly.

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smith... You must have missed my prediction the other day - Obama is going to beat McCain in a landslide.

God help us.

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Sarge, in just a few short weeks, you can celebrate with style as you add 'Wrong about john mccain' to your ever growing list of people and events you have been wrong about, including George Bush.

What'll it be - champagne, or beer?

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I'm shocked, I have to actually agree with Sushi and Smith et al and what they have been saying McCain all this time. The man is delusional. He thinks Hillary and Bill actually supports him! He then goes off the deep end about some vast Media conspiracy out get him, slams Obama calling him a messiah and rambles on how if he loses it will because of ACORN and voter fraud.

To actually think I supported him all this time. Time to vote for a write-in candidate after watching McCain just lose it as he did in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N-j0W6MW-U&feature=related

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Sarge - "God help us."

He is - Obama will be your next President. :-)

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I'm pro-free trade but at times I look forward to what Obama's anti-NAFTA stance is going to do to Canada. Add to that the power the unions are going to have and Europe and China are also gonna be hurting.

Bigtime.

Glad I am no longer in a field that will be affected.

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coulrophobic - "I'm pro-free trade..."

And pro-Americans won't be voting McCain.

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BREAKING NEWS: (CNN) -- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell announced Sunday that he will be voting for Sen. Barack Obama, citing the Democrat's "ability to inspire" and the "inclusive nature of his campaign."

"He has both style and substance. I think he is a transformational figure," Powell said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"Obama displayed a steadiness. Showed intellectual vigor. He has a definitive way of doing business that will do us well," Powell said.

He also said he was disappointed with some of McCain's campaign tactics, such as bringing up Obama's ties to former 1960s radical Bill Ayers.

Another source close to Powell said he has known the Republican nominee for more than three decades "and likes him and is looking for a reason to vote for him. He hasn't found it yet."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html

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Dang Sushi you scooped me!

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Powell's decision to endorse Obama, considering the general's 35-year war time and military experience, will further diminish john mccain's foreign policy standing.

Watching john mccain go down like this...it just gets better for pro-America Americans. :-)

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The All-American great Powell has done the right thing. I have always respected Coin Powell. Now I really really like him. He will change some votes. Woo Hoo! Watch the polls this week; Colin, I mean Obama will soar.

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"Powell said he questioned Sen. John McCain's judgment in picking Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate because he doesn't think she is ready to be president."

Ditto most thinking Americans :-)

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Sarah on SNL will pale in comparison to POWELL - POWELL!

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Good call from Powell (a respected Rep.). I cannot wait for a Palin soundbit. LOL

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It seems for many of the NeoCons on here that the cat got their tongue. I can see Sarge and RomeoRamen saying, "Oxygen, I need oxygen!"

Colin Powell said, "A vision that reaches out to the rest of the world, that starts to restore confidence in America, that starts to restore favorable ratings to America. Frankly, we've lost a lot in recent years."

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BREAKING NEWS: CNN) -- U.S. President George Bush announced Sunday that he will be voting for Sen. Barack Obama, citing the Democrat's "good brain", "damn great campaign structure" and Arizona Senator John McCain's "slam-dunk dumb" choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate.

[ha ha! I wish! :-)]

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"John McCain thinks Americans are angry? Really? I think he needs to look beyond his rallies. Americans are not angry. Republicans are angry. Bush screwed ‘em over and now McCain is rubbing salt in the wound. It looks to me like The Straight Talk Express is stuck in traffic and its driver is experiencing a little road rage. The rest of us are hopeful and anxious, but certainly not angry. We want change and it is so close we can almost taste it."

These two old women rock!

http://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/

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Foreign Policy

Military Strength

National Security

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Talking to your parents about the risks of John McCain isn't as hard as you think.

Find out how: www.mccainfreewhitehouse.org/

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“It isn’t easy for me to disappoint Senator McCain as I have this morning,” said Powell, who emphasized that he would not campaign for Obama because of his admiration for McCain’s long record of service in the military and in Congress.

Colin Powell is a class act and always will be to me. Always admired him. Though he is endorsing Obama it doesn't diminish my respect for the man in anyway shape or form. I appreciated his kind words to Senator McCain even though he felt he couldn't endorse him. Also for the record because you won't see it in the Ap or AFP news articles they'll "forget" to include it in their articles I am almost positive, but he also said.

McCain would be a good president, Powell said, but Obama is “a transformational figure” who would be an “exceptional” leader.

I wish Colin would've ran in 2000 he was the person I really wanted to run back then and I would have voted for, but such is life.

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“Barack Obama is tough. He can take three more weeks of this, but you can’t take four more years of John McCain/Bush policies.” - Joe Biden

MUST WATCH VIDEO: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/obamaroadblog/gGgLBW

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"All Americans... not just African-Americans" would be proud of an Obama win, Colin Powell argued.

Video here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7678788.stm

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sailwind said:

Also for the record because you won't see it in the Ap or AFP news articles they'll "forget" to include it in their articles I am almost positive, but he also said.

I certainly hope they do include all of Powell's positive comments about McCain. It would definitely show balance. I believe that much of the liberal side of the press is very balanced. I hope they prove me correct. Sailwind, I think you have a legitimate issue if they don't. It does not mean that I would never let them redeem themselves. I see it as an opportunity to show balance.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my celebrating. It was exciting news for me. I was also in the military and I have a great deal of respect for Colin Powell for being wise as well as strong. I was in before he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I hope Obama wins. I also hope we can heal wounds and be united beyond our partisan differences. I try to be honest and admit that I am partisan; I admit I am a liberal. My father was a conservative with a heart of gold. He was mild mannered and well loved in any community he was a part of. I guess part of what has angered me about the Republican party is the abuse towards liberals. Now I have practiced my fair share of abuse on these threads but I am not hostile toward my conservative friends in my non-virtual life. Believe it or not I have a name. It does not say Donkey, good on my birth certificate.

If as I expect Obama gets elected there will be backlash from many Democrats aimed at Republicans. There are more than a few Democrats wanting revenge for the Bush years. I often enjoy talking a lot of trash but if we find the path to unity, America will be a better place and America will have more to contribute to the world.

p.s. Sailwind I am still pouring through the Brooking report. It is tedious.

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There are more than a few Democrats wanting revenge for the Bush years.

I suspect we'll be too busy cleaning up the mess that Bush has left to worry much about revenge. The best thing we can do is to remember how we got here and how vitally important it is to make sure that every legally-cast ballot is carefully examined for the intent of the voter, in elections where the results would proscribe that being done. On such principles do the fates of nations hang.

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Demo-Coms already have had their revenge and have cost us 1T(Clintonians) with no end to this war. When will the spending stop?

Now McCain wants NASA to put his next house on Mars. Obama wants to give everyone $500 (stimulus #2?).

So how many Angels can dance on a tip of a needle?

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If people care to look at the other angle,then they will certainly see McCain is more than a good leader,he is a great leader.McCain is shouldering great burdens from GOP,from Bush and trying to maintain the line...now he got a stab in the back by his "mate".This is fatal.

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Powell endorses Obama!!! hahaha

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Everton2:

No he doesn't. No one has yet to endorse Obama, which must be scary. The New York Times, the Chicago Tribune and the Wall Street Journal have all endorsed McCain. SO have ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.

The only Obama supporters are ACORN and other domestic terrorist groups.

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slappayuki: Where have you been? Mr Powell came out a few hours ago and categorically endorsed and indicated that he will be voting for Obama. You just can get it any clearer that than.

Powell said that he was put off by McCain's campaign strategy, their pathetic attempt to run an election on the basis of Muslim and non Muslim, which is the kind of image we should not be sending to the world. That there are far more important issues than the so called links to Bill Ayers, and that a McCain Administration would simple be a continuation of a conservative agènda, which has not serve us well in the last 8 years.

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"Powell endorses Obama!!! hahaha!"

Yeah, ha ha ha! It's the kiss of death for Obama to get the endorsement of someone who told all those lies at the U.N. about WMD in Iraq!

I respect Powell's service to the country, but he is wrong about Obama being the better choice over McCain, and I really can't believe he said Obama is qualified to be commander in chief of the Armed Forces. He is not.

Everton2 - slappauki was being sarcastic.

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This is actually the most impressive that I've seen McCain. I finally find at least one area where I'm impressed by him. He makes coherent logical arguments on taxes.

To call what Obama is proposing a tax "cut" is deceitful. A tax cut during a flat economy or recession can only come from decreased government spending or increased government debt. With Obama's promised socialist programs I suspect he'll have to raise taxes and increase debt. Welcome to the U.S.A. (United Slaves of America)!

A goverment that can arbitrarily confiscate your property can pretty well control your life. Citizens being property of the state is a basic tenet of socialism. Welcome to the U.S.A. (United Socialists of America).

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Sarge - "I really can't believe he said Obama is qualified to be commander in chief of the Armed Forces. He is not."

You had better believe it, my friend. mccain is erratic, all over the place at the best of times. Not ideal to have in control of any nuclear codes.

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Sushi - Yeah, you're right, it would be better to have someone with zero military experience, zero executive experience and little foreign policy experience in control of the nuclear codes.

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"You had better believe it, my friend. mccain is erratic, all over the place at the best of times. Not ideal to have in control of any nuclear codes."

And you know this because you have been in the US armed forces. LOL.

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I respect Powell's service to the country, but he is wrong about Obama being the better choice over McCain, and I really can't believe he said Obama is qualified to be commander in chief of the Armed Forces.

I just find the opinion of a retired 5 star general, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State who actually knows both candidates a bit more compelling than yours, unless you have as much first hand knowledge and experience as Colin Powell.

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Powell, one of the coolest person to come out of the military in last 40 years, a lot more capable than McCain in just about every area has endorsed Obama

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Simon - So, you're saying that because Powell has endorsed Obama, Obama MUST be the best choice. There are other generals supporting McCain. Gosh, they must all be wrong...

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Nope. I'm saying I'm more inclined to listen to his opinion than yours.

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Applying the same logic, by the way, if someone like Wesley Clark said he was voting for McCain, I'd seriously ask myself how the Democrats could be screwing up so badly.

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coulrophobic,

I'm an Obama supporter and I can tell you where the tax cut comes from. It comes from tax increases on the very high income earners. Obama has described his plan as being tax neutral.

McCain's tax cuts are much more than Obama's. Can you explain where those tax cuts will come from?

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"I'm an Obama supporter and I can tell you where the tax cut comes from."

As has already been pointed out if 40 percent of Americans are not paying taxes there is no 'cut' being given. It's welfare, dressed up as a tax cut, doled out in order to buy votes.

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Simon - Fair enough. You think Obama's the right choice. Why? I'm telling you that he is not the right choice. I'm telling you that Powell, though he is a great soldier and public servant, is wrong about this. McCain is far more trustable and able to lead the country through these tough times.

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I don't have a lot of time for people "telling" me who's right and who isn't. Another reason I'll take Powell's opinion over yours any day. I don't have a lot of time either for an unpredictable, bad-tempered old man who lets a dirty campaign be waged in his name by the same people who screwed him over in 2000, chooses a Christian fundamentalist demogogue as his running mate and generally doesn't strike me as having many good ideas for promoting world peace and ending the financial crisis. But that doesn't answer your question.

I think Obama is the better choice because he was right to oppose the Iraq War and his ideas about troop withdrawals are actually being taken onboard. He is right to suggest some sort of dialogue with enemies of America, because America simply could not commit itself to another military operation like the one in Iraq. After all, successive administrations maintained relations with the Soviets and Chinese during the Cold War, and President Reagan's diplomacy arguably ended it.

I also agree in principle with tax cuts for the badly off and increases for the wealthy. Small government, light regulation and letting the banks and big businesses do as they please has not worked, and the amount of cash that banking and business executives have been able to leech out of the economy is disgusting. They screwed up and they deserve to be made to pay for it. Socialist? I don't care.

As for McCain, he's done some good things. He's done his bit to clean up Washington and he's often chosen his principles over his party, but his time has been and gone. In 2000 he could have been elected as a president who would have served his country with honour and distinction. As it is, his principles haven't done anyone much good in the last eight years. McCain himself has tacitly admitted that he's running against the record of the incumbent. Notice how they don't do any campaigning together and wondered why that is? He has nevertheless been using the same campaign strategies as President Bush and seems set to follow the same policies that I think have failed catastrophically.

Now kindly don't tell me what to think again, please.

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Small government, light regulation and letting the banks and big businesses do as they please has not worked, and the amount of cash that banking and business executives have been able to leech out of the economy is disgusting. They screwed up and they deserve to be made to pay for it. Socialist? I don't care.

If you think the U.S. government is small, light on regulation, or non-interventionist in the markets you're plain crazy. The U.S. is already socialist - just not to the degree that Russia and China were before they realized the socialist conundrum - it doesn't work. Perhaps in 50 years the U.S. can have all the benefits that Cuba has enjoyed.

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This has to be Japan Today's most ridiculous thread on this election yet. Obama says he will raise taxes on the top 5% and cut them for 95%, and half the posters here babble on about the semantics of "95%" and the evils of socialism (they don't seem to mind socialism much in Alaska by the way, with their nice fat checks courtesy of the oil companies.) Either there are some rich posters here ("sorry Sheik, I'll get back to you on the Azerbaijan pipeline deal, but I gotta send off some comments to Japan Today first"), or there some folks arguing against and planning to vote against their own personal economic self-interest. Hey I admire your willingness to take one for the team, and put the group ahead of the individual. But perhaps you have been in Japan a while - "ore ore" to you then. Anyways, arguing about taxes in a bankrupt country is just campaign nonsense, you are going to pay one way or another.

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If you think the U.S. government is small, light on regulation, or non- interventionist in the markets you're plain crazy.

That is basically the philosophy that Republicans, conservatives and this administration have continually advocated, right? I know perfectly well that under Bush the government has kept expanding and spending has mushroomed. I also know that American courts are a lot tougher on corporate fraud than our British ones (there's a reason so many international companies like to do business in Britain). Nevertheless people like Richard Fuld were allowed to earn something like half a billion dollars for the decade or more that they were driving the US and global economies straight into the wall. You call that regulation?

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...there some folks arguing against and planning to vote against their own personal economic self-interest.

Insane isn't it. Not that it matters. The majority can see through the claptrap and are voting responsibly.

Kudos to Simon for his sensible posts also.

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coulrophobic,

Obama's popularity does not rest on his tax plan. The majority of his votes did not come from his tax plan. They came from his stand on the mismanagement of our foreign policy, the mismanagement of our economy, his focus on health care and his call for change. More recently they have been coming from McCain inability to manage his temper and from his poor judgment in selecting a vice-presidential candidate who is unsuited for the job.

I can understand why you think that a plan to give money to people would be an attempt to buy votes. However, McCain is also planning to reduce taxes. Furthermore, the people who are going to benefit proportionally most from Obama's tax cuts--as you say the $0 taxpayers--are not exactly traditional Republican voters.

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Sez - "Obama's popularity does not rest on his tax plan"

That's fer sure! No one wants their taxes raised. His popularity rests on his messiah-like aura.

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"Obama's popularity does not rest on his tax plan. The majority of his votes did not come from his tax plan. They came from his stand on the mismanagement of our foreign policy..."

His own pick for Veep appears to have reservations about what his election to Commander-in-Chief will mean:

"October 20, 2008 Categories: Joe Biden Biden: Obama will be tested

"Joe Biden shifted things briefly onto what's thought to be McCain's turf at a Seattle fundraiser yesterday:

"It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy.The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Biden_Obama_will_be_tested.html

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To me, it sounds more like Biden was talking about the kinds of problems Obama will have to face rather than the way he will handle them. But won't McCain have to deal with the exact same problems if he gets elected?

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Sez - "Obama's popularity does not rest on his tax plan"

That's fer sure! No one wants their taxes raised. His popularity rests >on his messiah-like aura.

Someone just remind me again how many people are going to get their taxes raised under Obama's plan? Did someone say 5% of American income earners? I suppose it'll be whatever percentage is earning more than $250,000, but I suspect that they're in a minority that I have absolutely no sympathy with.

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Either there are some rich posters here ("sorry Sheik, I'll get back to you on the Azerbaijan pipeline deal, but I gotta send off some comments to Japan Today first"), or there some folks arguing against and planning to vote against their own personal economic self-interest.

It's much less messy to steal via the ballot box than to stick a gun in someone's back, huh?

Though I don't consider myself very rich, apparently Obama does think I'm rich. I already pay more in taxes than most Americans both as a straight dollar amount and as a percentage. How is that just? In fact, for my elevated confiscation what do I receive in return? I still get one vote and the same basic protections and infrastructure that every other citizen pays. Yet, other citizens who pay lass than me or pay nothing at all get more than these basic benefits which I am not allowed access to.

An enlightening experiment when considering government actions is to remove the goverment as the "middle man" and consider the justice of the action were it only between to equal citizens. For example, would it be just for you to take money from my family by force and give it as a scholarship to someone else? Would it be just for you to take money from my family by force in order to buy pay an artist to produce modern art?

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Sarge,

Obama's tax plan may not be popular with those on whom he is going to raise taxes. That would be some 2 to 3% of taxpayers. And it might not be popular with those who think that a 36% tax rate on marginal income over $250,000 is OK but that a 39% tax rate will just not stand. And it might not be popular with those who a month or two ago believed that the US economy was just fine.

But for the rest of the population, I don't think there are any serious objections to Obama's plan.

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coulrophobic,

What does that have to do with taxes? How does Biden's foreign policy prediction constitute a reservation?

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admsec,

So you have a high income (congratulations) and so have to pay a lot of tax (not good). And you have a problem with the justice of taxation. Join the club. But it's all irrelevant. The question is are you in the top tax bracket that will be hurt by Obama's plan? If not, what possible, rational reason do you have for opposing a plan that will get other people to pay more tax, and therefore reduce the share of the tax pie that gets dumped on you. Other than a possible belief in the magical powers of trickle down economics, I don't see one.

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